exotik:


so how do u seperate religion from culture?

In my original post which you referenced, I stated that the wars in Yorubaland were cultural rather than religious. To be able to answer your question, permit me to give a short insight into Yoruba philosophy and cosmology. Many cultures believe/believed in the concept that reality has two parts (male and female, good and evil, etc). The ancient Greeks and Romans were believers of this principle as were many other empires. But religions such as Christianity and Islam gradually replaced or amended this belief. There are still many cultures/religions that follow this belief system but their interpretations are different. These interpretations believe that the two can be interdependent, mutually independent, complimentary (Hinduism) or antagonistic (Gnostic Christians, Zoroastrianism).

Zoroastrianism is similar to Yoruba in that both believe in the concept of good and bad but differ in that the Yoruba believe that good and evil exist for the common good of the universe while Zoroastrianism believes that good and bad are in an eternal fight. This is why the Yoruba say "Buburu ati fere ni o nrin po ("Bad and good things work together" amongst many other sayings. On the good side, you have the orishas and on the bad side, you have death, curse, sickness, etc

Behind this belief system, the Yoruba are able to accept, assimilate and modify any religion. This is why there isn’t too much of a difference between a Yoruba Muslim, Yoruba Methodist, Yoruba Catholic, Yoruba Anglican. These similarities breed tolerance. This is also why You have Yoruba Christians, Yoruba Muslims, and Yoruba traditionalists living in harmony in places such as Nigeria, Benin Republic, Cuba, and Brazil.

In an era when most were fighting religious wars such as the European thirty years war, the Ottomans conquest of the Middle East, Dan Fodio’s conquest of the Hausa states, the Yoruba were fighting several wars amongst themselves and with their neighbours such as the Dahomians and Asante but none was a war based on religion or religious differences. So while you may find it difficult to separate religion and culture in many places, the Yoruba have through the ages not only been able to accept and assimilate many religions but have also managed to make Yoruba philosophy and belief system higher than any religion. Hence you have Orisha worshippers who have never set foot in Yoruba land in Brazil, Cuba, and other American countries, Catholitism modified to Santeria in Cuba and Candomble in Brazil.

When they do fight, its never religious. When Afonja attempted to sack Oyo, he used Muslims and traditionalists alike. Solagberu (A muslim) partnered with traditionalists to sack Ikoyi. The last Yoruba civil war (Kiriji) had Xtians, Muslims, traditionalists all fighting on the same side against other Xtians, Muslims, and traditionalists.


Sources

Some Aspects of Yoruba Aesthetics – Babatunde Lawal
The Yoruba Concept of Human Personality – Wande Abimbola
Black Critics and Kings: Hermeneutics of Power in Yoruba Society – Andrew Apter

exotik:

kats, u never still come back from where u go drink odeku??

anyway, i still dey wait o.

There were many bottles of Odeku and I had to finish them all.

I hope I answered your question above; apologies if it was too long.

hey kats, hope u enjoyed your odeku.
anyway, thanks for in-depth response. although, there are some quotes i'd have contested but it would seem like im nitpicking.

For those that've played brothers in arms,there one quote there that i love so much -"war is delightful to those that have no experience of it"

Waiting for the day Nigeria would come to realise it was a waste of time being together

blacksta: Please no war. I rather live under corruption than war. You people don't know the magnitude of what you are all wishing.

is better to die standing than to kneel all life

I wonder why Soyinka haven't seen the recent actions of the lagos state government as acts that could lead to civil war?The act of deportation of nigerians in their country and the act of undemocratically imposing primitive and tribal olojas on thriving global markets.

He owes the people of goodwill a stern comment about what is going on in lagos,if not it will be a great disappointment on his side.

redsun: I wonder why Soyinka haven't seen the recent actions of the lagos state government as acts that could lead to civil war?The act of deportation of nigerians in their country and the act of undemocratically imposing primitive and tribal olojas on thriving global markets.

He owes the people of goodwill a stern comment about what is going on in lagos,if not it will be a great disappointment on his side.

You should have asked for Soyinka

When ABuja was deporting people

When Abia was sacking non indigenes

When Anambra was deporting to Ebonyi

When Akwa Ibom was deporting

Or whats your fixation with Lagos

cKaiser:

You should have asked for Soyinka

When ABuja was deporting people

When Abia was sacking non indigenes

When Anambra was deporting to Ebonyi

When Akwa Ibom was deporting

Or whats your fixation with Lagos

Lagos is the melting pot for all nigerians,what happens there will all ring bell and if left unresolved will be catastrophic.

redsun:

Lagos is the melting pot for all nigerians,what happens there will all ring bell and if left unresolved will be catastrophic.

What makes Lagos the melting pot of All Nigerians and Different from the FEDERAL CAPITAL TERRITORY ABUJA?

What makes Lagos different from Anambra who did the same but you have as much as made a whimper about it

or What makes Abia different who sacked non indigenes but you feigned ignorance?

or what made it different when the same Lagos was deporting other Hausas and Yorubas we didnt hear from you

But once they shipped out your folks we started hearing all sorts from bigotted folks like you

cKaiser:

What makes Lagos the melting pot of All Nigerians and Different from the FEDERAL CAPITAL TERRITORY ABUJA?

What makes Lagos different from Anambra who did the same but you have as much as made a whimper about it

or What makes Abia different who sacked non indigenes but you feigned ignorance?

or what made it different when the same Lagos was deporting other Hausas and Yorubas we didnt hear from you

But once they shipped out your folks we started hearing all sorts from bigotted folks like you

Just because nobody is hammering about the unruliness of the socalled leaders in other parts of nigeria that you just mentioned does not mean that are not wrong.If you take it upon yourself to hammer on them like the igbos are trying to do about the iron hands of fashola in lagos,we could end up killing several birds with one stone.

Nigeria needs to be ruly for it to be able to forge ahead,not even a family unit a strive without abiding rules.

redsun: Just because nobody is hammering about the unruliness of the socalled leaders in other parts of nigeria that you just mentioned does not mean that are not wrong.If you take it upon yourself to hammer on them like the igbos are trying to do about the iron hands of fashola in lagos,we could end up killing several birds with one stone.

Nigeria needs to be ruly for it to be able to forge ahead,not even a family unit a strive without abiding rules.

I dont see anything wrong with it and I have never complained about any. The problem is tribalists and flaming bigots like you. Who never see anything wrong when its done by others like FCT, Anambra and in your Abia backyard. Even when lagos did it to others not your tribe nothing was wrong

But not Lagis did exactly the same thing to you and youre invoking Amadioha, Sango, Azikwe and Soyinka

GTFO with that Bullshyte

I wholeheartedly see everything wrong with nigeria,and one would have expected fashola,the supposedly enlightened citizen to live out the pace setter image he is trying to portray by being respectful to the fundamental laws of the the land.The only thing that binds north,east,west and south together is the constitution and if it is useless then the whole concept of a country is useless.

redsun: I wholeheartedly see everything wrong with nigeria,and one would have expected fashola,the supposedly enlightened citizen to live out the pace setter image he is trying to portray by being respectful to the fundamental laws of the the land.The only thing that binds north,east,west and south together is the constitution and if it is useless then the whole concept of a country is useless.

Dude give it a rest.

Why are you folks always quick to point out the flaws in others but ignore your own flaws?

Fashola was only following precedence anyway. Go and address the trend-setters first.

The officials that dropped people off on the bridge should be punished, same with those that failed to pick them up. Simple as ABC

redsun: I wholeheartedly see everything wrong with nigeria,and one would have expected fashola,the supposedly enlightened citizen to live out the pace setter image he is trying to portray by being respectful to the fundamental laws of the the land.The only thing that binds north,east,west and south together is the constitution and if it is useless then the whole concept of a country is useless.

Is Fashola more enlightened than your Peter Obi who deported people in 2011 without this cry from you.

When peter Adaobi deported people we never saw you cry out for the constitution, When Akapabio did it you forgot about the constitution, When Fashola did it to hausas and Yorubas there was no constitution, When the custodian of the constitution in Abuja did it, You didnt flare up and sue them to court

Now Fashola is now doing the same thing other have done and what Fashola has done to other tribes to your kinsmen and Its not the worst crime ever commited.

Look you are being shown for the bigot you are and everyone can see through you

Katsumoto:

Dude give it a rest.

Why are you folks always quick to point out the flaws in others but ignore your own flaws?

Fashola was only following precedence anyway. Go and address the trend-setters first.

Don't tell me fashola is a joke too like the rest of them.If SAN can not respect the law of the land,then who else will?

It is one thing that we remain primitive with customary laws to guide us and another that we remain democratic with revolutionary and evolutionary laws to guide us.We can be primitive and modern at the same time

redsun:

Don't tell me fashola is a joke too like the rest of them.If SAN can not respect the law of the land,then who else will?

It is one thing that we remain primitive with customary laws to guide us and another that we remain democratic with revolutionary and evolutionary laws to guide us.We can be primitive and modern at the same time

Akpabio is also a Lawyer by training How come when he deported people we didnt see your outrage on how he didnt respect the Law of the land

TA Orji is an administrator and has worked with govt for over 30yrs, How come we didnt see your disgust when he did the same thing

redsun:

Don't tell me fashola is a joke too like the rest of them.If SAN can not respect the law of the land,then who else will?

It is one thing that we remain primitive with customary laws to guide us and another that we remain democratic with revolutionary and evolutionary laws to guide us.We can be primitive and modern at the same time

Then you do not understand how the law works. If someone interprets a violation of the constitution, the recourse is to go to court to seek a redress or have the court interpret the constitution. Fashola's position is that since prior actions, ipso facto, weren't challenged, there is no illegality. If anyone disagrees, let them go to court.

Its funny how people always resort to the constitution in a country that can't protect or preserve life or serve justice when life is take.

cKaiser:

Akpabio is also a Lawyer by training How come when he deported people we didnt see your outrage on how he didnt respect the Law of the land

TA Orji is an administrator and has worked with govt for over 30yrs, How come we didnt see your disgust when he did the same thing

Is akpabio not the same man that sacked his unfortunate driver for mistakenly letting out fart in his presence?Does an animal like that appears to be educated to you in anyway?Same akpabio that had 250.000 dollars cash in his guest house that was supposedly stolen by his cook?Does that appear to be a civil human being to you that you should be comparing with suppose progressive fashola?I don'tknowmuch about kalu but from little i have heard he is just another nigerian politician,a rogue.

Why do you guys always have to make do with the worst?

Katsumoto:

Then you do not understand how the law works. If someone interprets a violation of the constitution, the recourse is to go to court to seek a redress or have the court interpret the constitution. Fashola's position is that since prior actions, ipso facto, weren't challenged, there is no illegality. If anyone disagrees, let them go to court.

Its funny how people always resort to the constitution in a country that can't protect or preserve life or serve justice when life is take.

So does it mean that if a person breaks the law and gets away with it others should see it as a privilege to break the law too?


From all indication you seem to be admitting that nigeria is rogue state where it is normal for leaders like fashola to be lawless and above the rogue constititution.

redsun:

So does it mean that if a person breaks the law and gets away with it others should see it as a privilege to break the law too?


From all indication you seem to be admitting that nigeria is rogue state where it is normal for leaders like fashola to be lawless and above the rogue constititution.

The law is part of the constitution but the constitution is much bigger than the law. If it weren't the police would prosecute everyone that violates the constitution and all lawyers would do would be to defend and prosecute offenders. Law is black and white; constitution has many grey areas. Thats why society needs lawyers and a supreme court to interpret.

Katsumoto:

Alimi was a Fulani scholar who was well traveled within Yorubaland before settling at Ilorin after invitation from Afonja. His son Abdulsalam became emir after Afonja was killed.



He was eliminated because of the covert Fulani plan to take over Ilorin without waging war. The Fulani needed an outpost in Yorubaland from which they could conquer Yorubaland like they did to Hausaland. Solagberu who was the leader of the Yoruba Muslims from Oke Suna was also killed even though he had aligned with Abdulsalam and had equally turned his back on Afonja. Although Solagberu was killed because Abdulsalam thought that the Onikoyi of Ikoyi had submitted to his rule while Solagberu, Timi of Ede, and Toyeje the Kakanfo had laid seige at Ikoyi. At the end of the day, it wasn't about religion; it was about the Fulani need for power.



Heading out shortly, will be back to answer this.

Nice one Katsumoto....Solagberu was ethnic Kanuri....dis if for ignorants that think the british invited our tribes in this space called Nigeria. we forget that people were free spirits. Though the Oyomesi kept him out of meetings, he served and was kissed as a general would fighting for
Afonja. read the excerpt from "http://www.unilorin.edu.ng/publications/omoiya/Lapai%20Journal%20of%20Central%20Nigerian%20History0001.pdf" On page 22

there are many other publications to back it up....

tribalism in nigeria is sick and unfounded....

andyanders: Joe is a useless individual with no brain to note that what he is fermenting is civil war. No right thinking human being will be behaving the way that animal called leader is doing right now.
He cannot prosecute the so called cabal, he cannot tackle the gboko haram, and he can now ONLY suffer Nigerians with Ngozi, Sanusi and Alison by removing fuel subsidy with flimsy excuses.

Let him be impeached. The worst president that this country EVER had.

U re not in Nigeria . cant you see that the north are making it hard for GEJ to rule Nigeria . No President in recent Nigeria had it hard like GEj because he is from south south and not north or west

So Mr Soyinka, why has the civil war not broken out yet?

You have been predicting this 'civil war' since the 1980s to no avail. Hope you are not too disappointed.

^^^

As he did not put a specific time-frame on its outbreak, one wonders what's triggered the body spasms.

eGuerrilla: ^^^

As he did not put a specific time-frame on its outbreak, one wonders what's triggered the body spasms.

He is the one with body spasms caused by constant hallucination over bombs raining down on the citizenry via civil war. Meanwhile, his dire predictions keep failing him. Perhaps we should give it another twenty years?

Rossikk: He is the one with body spasms caused by constant hallucination over bombs raining down on the citizenry via civil war.

And her bombs and bullets not killing Nigerians and foreigners alike? Are you waiting to lose your internet connection before realizing that the signs are ominous?

Katsumoto:

And her bombs and bullets not killing Nigerians and foreigners alike? Are you waiting to lose your internet connection before realizing that the signs are ominous?

You need to visit Syria, Congo, Somalia, or Iraq to see what a civil war is really about. You haven't a clue.

Rossikk: You need to visit Syria, Congo, Somalia, or Iraq to see what a civil war is really about. You haven't a clue.

And you need to educate yourself on how conflicts start. You think its a movie where everyone just comes out one day and start fighting.

Katsumoto:

And you need to educate yourself on how conflicts start. You think its a movie where everyone just comes out one day and start fighting.

According to you and Soyinka, our "conflict" has been "starting" since the end of the last one in 1972! By 2050, it will still be "just about to start".

Katsumoto:

And you need to educate yourself on how conflicts start. You think its a movie where everyone just comes out one day and start fighting.

You are going to have to forgive Rossikk here. War for him only starts when it features on CNN (See No News, according to Fela Kuti)