donroxy: Page O-11
Quite Educative and really insightful......Derailers also make it fun!!!

Negro_Ntns:

Dummy, I have to continously teach you about the value of relations and influence.  Just because we are discussing war, you don't come in with a threat to get your demands.  Animals do that!  You state your concern for why you think the post is in the wrong section and ask (not demand, but ask) if it would not be better to relocate it.  

If you use this Yoruba approach of dialoguing, 90% of time your request will be met.    

tpia@:
Ufeolorun is not yoruba (or sane).

He's just pretending to be yoruba for the usual nefarious reasons.

Someone should look up his ip address- i'm sure it will match some other one/s on nl.

Ufeolorun:
Han han! Momo tpia why attack me?
Am insane? where did that come from
Well you r not the first to question my identity even my family call me Gambari lol!
anyway Ufeolorun ni meha kiise ti eniyan like my mother usually say.
Back to trenches(in the thick forest of Igede-ekiti) preping.

isale_gan2:

I missed this the last time.


Never gets old:





Hahahaha

9jacrip: Andrew Uweh, I will advise you get better works on Yoruba history - check with Toyin Falola.
Samuel Johnson's work is not 'scholarly' and filled with 'intriguing' myths/oral tradition.

Why not try Ground work of Nigerian History by Obaro Ikime and many other co-authors.

demmy:

Johnson's general history is truly filled with myths but his accounts of the war were correct because he witnessed it and even helped to negotiate its end.

Katsumoto:

You seem to have a problem with Samuel Johnson or his book. You keep mentioning Toyin Falola but you keep failing to mention a book by Falola that is comparable with Johnson's book. Falola's Yoruba works are centered mainly on Ibadan and military structure in pre-colonial Yorubaland. Quite ironically, a book edited by Falola, Yoruba Historiography, is centered on Samuel Johnson's book. So I wonder why you persist with denigrating Samuel Johnson's book when even you preferred writer edited a body of works on Samuel Johnson.

Obaro Ikime's book does not even come close to Johnson's book, even though it is excellent in its own right. Many excellent books have been written about Yoruba history or aspects of it; it doesn't make sense to denigrate any of them because they provide different perspectives, from Akinjogbin to Ade-Ajayi to Lewis to Akintoye to David Laitin.

Katsumoto:

Most historical books or accounts are filled with myths. In my opinion, advanced cultures are able to dream and develop these myths. The Saxons tell us about knights slaying dragons, the Greeks tell us about gods who rule the skies, oceans, etc. What about Roman gods and goddesses? And guess what, films and books have been written about the European myths. Is Homer's book, the Iliad, not filled with myths? Why is he the most regarded Greek author of all time?

Mythology is part of Yoruba history and that is never going to change. Is it possible to write a book about any of the advanced cultures without including mythology? If others can embrace and celebrate their mythology, why can't Yoruba folks do the same?

9jacrip:


You shot yourself in both legs with the bolded.
History is defined as an account of the activities of humans and not of gods...
Sir, with utmost respect, if you are not trained in the field/discipline kindly evaluate things you write (no insult intended).

This is why most historians balk at Johnson's work, full of myth. History writing seeks to do a thorough evaluation of these myths and bring them to 'earth'.
Please, do a proper research on what history is - it is way beyond ear-watering myths that leaves a kid's imagination running.

Katsumoto:

Recent historical records may be less filled with myths than older accounts but there are myths nonetheless in those works. That's why I gave an example of Homer's Iliad.

You have stated repeatedly that you have a degree in History, that's fine but this thread is about the Kiriji war and if I am correct, you are yet to share any knowledge. All you have done is tell us your historical pedigree and defined history. What can you share with us about the Kiriji war? And please, it shouldn't be from Johnson's book. What other books about the Kiriji war have you read?

If you have read Johnson's book, can you tell us what myths he wrote about in relation to the Kiriji war? This is not the time to obfuscate or be generic. This thread is about Kiriji, please list the myths in Johnson's book in the Kiriji sections.

9jacrip:

Your points noted.
Your questions are: I should list the kiriji war myths, yes? And I should contribute to the discourse w/out using johnson's work?
As I said, Johnson's work is a 'blueprint', so even if I manage to conjure up works on it, won't it reiterate samethings Johnson's work said, but in an analytical way?

Homer was a poet not a historian, if you're going to cite any greek historian start from Herodotus/Thucydides.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to state I studied history. It is just that I involuntarily react when I see sumtin I'm passionate about not being handled pproperly.

I'll be back sir!

Katsumoto:

Ok, we are making progress.

So you are just going to read Johnson's book to be able to state the myths he recorded about Kiriji yet you have been stating vociferously that the work is filled with myths. You should have been able to list one or two the myths without recourse to the book.

Second, as a historian (or history student) and as someone who has stated/implied that Johnson's book is not all that and gone on to recommend another author, you should be able to list a few books that cover the Kiriji war MORE COMPREHENSIVELY without research and tell us why they are more comprehensive.

As for your point about Homer being a poet, that's getting technical and pedantic. I refer to Homer as a historian because of the Iliad and the Odyssey.

9jacrip:


Ok, we are making progress.

Yes we are.

I have read Johnson's work from cover to cover so rest yourself on that sir. Kiriji war doesn't contain 'super hero' activities, nobody dropped from the sky with chain and it was all activities of men - that's history.

I should 'educate' you as a history enthusiast that historians/history students do have areas of specialisation - though one is required to have a brief knowledge of almost everything but it would be stupid for me to lay stupid claims of things I've read in passing and never felt compelled to dig further.

Homer remains a poet no need beating around the bush, point blank! Forget Illiad and Odyssey they are both fictional works sir. Please I've always respected your contributions like most people on NL, don't come off with these works being history works. Do your research, thank you.

I'm coming back with research works on Kiriji sir, like you, I do not know everything.

Thank you.

Katsumoto:

You have been commenting on this topic like you have an average grasp of the topic when in reality, you probably haven't read the book. You should read a book and then offer an opinion and not offer the opinion before reading the book. I don't have an issue with folks developing an interest in a topic and then seeking to research more on the subject. The problem I have with your approach is that you kept referring others to other books because you believe Johnson's is filled with myths. When challenged to state those myths and offer your insight into the event, you retort that you are going to do research.

In any case, I am satisfied that you don't really have a grasp of Johnson's book, the Kiriji war, and any other books on it. I am happy with Johnson's work having read other accounts from Akinjogbin, Ade Ajayi, Awe, etc. You may share your newly acquired 'insight' with others on the thread but I do not wish to pursue this discussion any further for obvious reasons.

Ciao

9jacrip:


Funny how you're taking a defeatist approach.
I have countered Johnson's work in general terms to be filled with myths not on Kiriji per-se.
Further more, I stated I've read Johnson's work from cover to cover (almost every fresh student of history start with his work).
I've admitted to not being enthralled by 'kiriji war' which you of course seem fascinated about.

I wouldn't want to pursue this further either for obvious reason being you appear to be a lay-man to/of history - simple and plain. I ought to have let the matter rest with how you tout Johnson's work, state Homer to be a historian, claiming Oddysey and Illiad to be history works - how disastrous could that be?

Enjoy.

P.S: Johnson wrote a good work on Kiriji but he wasn't the only one who touched that topic is what I'm saying and for the record, I didn't state the work on Kiriji to be mythologized in the book.

vandarsar: Very very educative thread.
But I noticed much wasn't said about the Ijaiyes.

Am an Ijaiye man and am really willing to know Ijaiye's exploits and position in Yoruba history before and after the genocide war broke out between them and the Ibadans. Honestly I know all those kurunmi and Ogummola things, what am seeking is an in depth knowledge of how the ijaiye were doing before and after the war. By after the war, I mean where did they go to? Where can u find them in modern day Yorubaland, and of course am from Abeokuta

TerraCotta: I can understand 9JaCrip's point (and I'd even award him some more points "for most unusual history enthusiast's nickname" ). The earlier parts of Reverend Johnson's book are clouded in mythology and relies on earlier works with their own problems, notably Sultan Bello's writings. His book is still the gold standard on Yoruba history and culture--everything from names to the different facial marks, gods and even clothing is included in the book. I also think Rev. Johnson is trustworthy on the Kiriji war since he was an eyewitness and a treaty signatory as well--he lived through some of the events in the latter part of the wars. It's also true that his brother Obadiah had to recreate most of the book from Johnson's notes after the original manuscript was lost so there may be some material included/excluded that Johnson might not agree with.

Andre Uweh:
Say no to the above. The Hausa-Fulani will seize that opportunity to sack the entire Yorubaland. That has always been their wish.  There is no ethnic group in this Africa that hates the Yorubas more than the Hausa- Fulani.
The Yorubas should be united at all time to withstand Hausa-Fulani aggression.

kingphemy: Are oral historical accounts allowed here?

Want to post about the 'Osoomalo', Ijeshas and the probable reason why the Ijesha land is more than their neighbours.

The accuracy of such accounts may be questionable but it will be as I heard it.

anonimi:

Why not start a fresh thread on that?

Andre Uweh: Once again, how can I lay my hand on Samuel Johnson's book ''The History of The Yoruba''.
Thanks in anticipation.

lakhadimar: Last month i got a copy at the BOOKSELLERS BOOKSHOP at jericho road in ibadan

punch news:
The Kiriji War, an epic battle fought by the Yoruba for 16 years, is believed to be the world’s longest civil war by any ethnic group. FEMI MAKINDE, who visited the war sites in Igbajo and Imesi in Osun State, writes that the relics of the war, which ought to be tourists’ sites, are not getting the deserved attention



Imesi Ile is an ancient town in Obokun Local Government Area of Osun State of Nigeria which is set on the plateau. The town, which shares boundary with Oke Imesi in Ekiti State, is famous for the bloodiest inter-tribal wars fought by the Yoruba. The war which lasted 16 years is known as Kiriji War.

The word Kiriji was derived from the vibratory sound of the cannons deployed by the Ekiti Parapo Confederate Army to prosecute the war against Ibadan warriors which started in 1870.

The armies from the two sides displayed sophisticated military hardware which led to large casualties from both sides.

The war, according to some historians, was the fiercest tribal war among the Yoruba ethnic group of South-West Nigeria and the Kiriji War which ended almost 127 years ago led to the signing of a peace treaty on September 23, 1886.

The Aare Latosa, commander of the Ibadan Army and Ajayi Ogboriefon, the dreaded Osi Aare of Ibadan as well as Labinjo of Imesi Ile and Prince Adeyela of Ila were killed at the Kiriji battlefield in Imesi Ile.

The Secretary-General of Kiriji Cultural Foundation, Mr. Kehinde Kolawole, told our correspondent that the cause of the war was the determination of the Ekiti and Ijesha people to free themselves from the oppressive rule of Ibadan warlord- Aare Latoosa who sent his agents to collect royalties.

He said one of the agents from Ibadan known as Ajele one day sexually molested the wife of Prince Fabunmi of Imesi. The prince became furious and beheaded the Ajele. That decapitation, triggered the war which led to an unprecedented bloodletting in the history of the Yoruba people who were brothers.

The adage that where two elephants fight the grass suffers is apt to describe the Kiriji War site in Imesi Ile. The site is littered with stone- anvils which blacksmiths used to manufacture bullets, gun powder and other weapons.

The carved stone on which Ogedengbe, the Commander of the Ekiti Parapo, sat to command the war is still in Imesi-Ile where the war was fought. Apart from the sophisticated weapons used, charms and other unconventional methods including masquerades were freely used to prosecute the war.

Our correspondent who visited the sites observed that the sites were not given the kind of attention which should be accorded such historical places.

The relics of the war and the cenotaph erected for the signing of the peace treaty on September 23, 1886 are all tucked inside the bush with just weather-beaten sign posts almost the size of a palm, signalling the presence of such important monuments.
[b]
Veering off the main road which leads to Igbajo, which also has some of the objects of the war, the road leading to the Kiriji Peace Treaty site and the one leading to the battlefield can be best described as non-existent. The gullies on the narrow bush path leading to the sites make it difficult to access the place.

The war relics have been covered by the bush and a local resident who took our correspondent to place said one could have a better view of the site in the dry season.

One of the fascinating relics on the war site is the huge stone in form of a chair upon which Ogedengbe, the commander of Ekiti Parapo Army, sat and commanded his soldiers.

A cenotaph was erected at the peace treaty site to commemorate the landmark event. The cenotaph-one of the few efforts to remind people of the historical site is painted in white.

Two Peregun trees were said to have been planted during the signing of the treaty; the trees are at the site as a remembrance of the peace accord.

The Yoruba Peace Treaty which ended the 16-year war was signed by 24 Obas and chiefs on September 23, 1886 in Imesi Ile and the treaty has 12 articles.[/b]

The proclamation of peace inscribed on one side of the cenotaph was countersigned by Henry Higgins and Oliver Smith who were special commissioners.

It reads in part, “ Now, therefore, we, special commissioners appointed by His Excellency, the Governor of Lagos for the purpose of executing the said treaty in accordance with the provisions thereof, do hereby proclaim, in the name of the signatories of the said treaty, that peace has this day been established and shall henceforth continue forever between the signatories of the said treaty and between their respective peoples.”

The Owa Oye of Imesi Ile, Oba Enoch Ademola Akinyemi, who is the paramount ruler in the town, told our correspondent that the Osun State Government had taken over the management of the sites.

He explained that the sites were managed by the National Commission for Museums and Monuments until the state government took over.

The monarch lauded the administration of Governor Rauf Aregbesola for taking over the site, saying the state government made funds available for the celebration of the 126th anniversary of the peace treaty.

“I urge the government to expedite action on the development of the sites. Once this is done, the sites will attract tourists from all over the world to the state.

“Besides, the war sites should be developed to a world heritage centre for tourism like other world famous war camps,” the monarch said.

But Kolawole, said the state government had not done much since it took over the management.

He said the town and the war sites deserved more attention than they were getting due to the important role the town played long ago before the nation got independence from colonial masters.

Kolawole said, “It is our belief that if the World War II which lasted for just four years is still celebrated in Warsaw, Poland, the Kiriji War which is the longest war throughout the history of black race deserves no less.”

Tony Spike: This is a recent article from Punch Newspaper on the Kiriji Wars. It is dated September 16th, 2013.



Can someone confirm that the information in red actually happened in 1886? I thought the treaties between the Ibadan armies and the Ekitiparapo armies happened in 1893...