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Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Christianity Vs. Atheism: Which Side Fights Dirtier / Men of God Or Gods Of Men? / Christianity Vs. Satanism (1) (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 2:18pm On Feb 18, 2012
SNCOQ3:

@ Martian
You lost this argument the moment you took it out of context and also subscribing to throwing insults. you're better left ignored.

There was never an argument, I was just trying to alleviate your ignorance. Argument implies that you have something worthwhile to share but you have naught. I can't take you serious after statements like these:
SNCOQ3:

* The bible calls all christians (black christians included) "Spiritual Jews". By implication: Jews, the most advanced race in the world are not superior to a black christian, This is liberating not enslaving.

* Europeans were once idol worshippers like us, the bible from the middle east changed them for the better too. It never stood in the way of progress. Now Nigerians are on a missionary journey to morally bankrupt Europe, changing their lives with the bible too, never heared about who owns the largest church in ukraine?

You're a rube. How is that for an Ad Hominem?

SNCOQ3:

When a Christian debates with an atheist, it has to be realized that you will never win the argument in the classic sense. In other words, the atheist will never admit defeat or concede a point.
Instead they will resort to an ad hominem attack. An ad hominem attack is when they have to resort to a personal insult in order to make their point. For example:
Christian: “The universe shows a great deal of order; therefore, its existence implies an intelligent creator.”
Atheist: “Only id.iots would believe that.”
When the atheist resorts to insults, you have won. What’s important to realize is that continuing to debate beyond that point diminishes your victory. It makes you look small and needy. When an atheist resorts to insults, the argument is over and they have lost it. That is when you need to claim victory and end the debate with that person. Insults in debate indicate a complete exhaustion of ideas.
Of course, this only applies if you, yourself, have not resorted to insults. If you are insulting the person you’re debating, you can’t expect them not to insult back. Whoever throws the first insult in a debate between a Christian and an atheist is the loser.
So, in atheist debates:
Rule#1: Do not personally attack the atheist.
Rule #2: Claim victory and walk away when the atheist insults you.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't know "Egor" from New Orleans was the preeminent expert on debating atheist!!!! Wow!! You're not a worthy christian.
http://www.worthychristianforums.com/index.php?/topic/146447-debating-with-atheists/
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 3:49pm On Feb 18, 2012
ekt_bear:

You could probably write an interesting science fiction book based on the OPs title, i'd read it cheesy

Oh,  I'm flattered. But the title won't pass for a Scifi.

Perhaps, you should make a rendition of "Clash of the Titans" the African way. wink
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by ghostofsparta(m): 4:56pm On Feb 18, 2012
Martian:

My point is too much religion and an over dependence on god and his "spokesmen" can render people docile and accepting of mediocrity. Why do you think corrupt political leaders patronise religious leaders?
Britain and France didn't pray their ways out of misery either. By the way, when is your next revival? You know you need to pray for that breakthrough and you also need to bind the demons of atheism.

Perfect!!! but I assume you're an atheist. Are you?


Rossikk:

SNCOQ SAID

Only a colonised BAST.ARD with a dead brain will dare describe the ancestral sprits as 'demons'. If that is the rubbish they teach you in your churches, I say BURN DOWN THE CHURCHES.

Yeah, only a colonized black African (Christian and Muslim converts) will accept whatever wording the white man use in defining his/her father's cultures or ways. They came and when they saw certain folks spilling the blood of a cockerel into what to them seem like a carving…without even bothering themselves to ask or inquire why and how, they just call the former idol and the latter ritual and the religion animism. In pre-colonial times, the missionaries never studied the Yoruba deities, in conclusion they just condemned them all as agents of what they call ‘devil’. Now today, a Nigerian medical student who have read any of their history books in secondary schools where our past are condemned, whose pastors have preached against idols and pagan practices would believe that his great grandfather was truly a pagan because they worshiped idols but wouldn’t think to criticize why western medics accepted The rod of Asclepius into the Star of Life symbol used by paramedics, ambulances worldwide. Why does the shrine of St. Jude exist? A educated Yoruba man would voraciously condemned Shango as a demon or at least as lesser god when compared to his mighty God(Yaweh/Jeovah) but sees nothing wrong placing an anniversary on a Monday (day of moon worship), feels indifferent if his daughter observes zodiac signs and meanings or his son reading Thor comics (Thor's name is the origin of the name Thursday - Norwegian god of thunder) comics. I conducted a survey and 85% of male youths (mostly my peers) who love the popular game ‘God of War’, but  wouldn't buy an adventure game if it was titled ‘Wraths of Ogun’ or 'Anger of Shango'. So I think what our people need is re-enlightenment and not the burning of churches and mosques. Our people need to know that ‘Jesus’ was the name of the first ship that carted blacks as slaves away to the New World and how the Jews played a prominent role as active sponsors in the nefarious trade, which begs the question-Why are they (Yoruba christian and muslim converts) into a religion that is centered on a particular figure whose people (the Jews) today, are not even into? A letter quoting sections in the Bible that supported the enslavement of blacks for the torturous work in the New World was written by Bishop Bartolomé de las Casas to a Pope who signed it.  In a book I am still writing titled: “Why I Am Not Yet an Atheist”; I argued that since the idol in “idol-worshipping” is viewed as any man-made object that one does not only venerate, but can shed blood on top which includes either dying for and killing for, whether human or animal, if so…then why is that religious fanatics/extremists/fundamentalists always feel the need to defend their God(Yaweh/Allah) whenever their holy books, crucifix, tesibiu, rosary, etc is desecrated unintentionally or not by killing the offenders/violators? They’d say their God commanded so, hang the heathens, burn the infidels just like the Europeans did to the indigenous Indians before usurping their lands and resources which the black slaves from Africa worked and ploughed, imagine the scores of people that lost their life up north in Nigeria because of some cartoon drawings of the Prophet Mohammed in Denmark, You and I know those Hausa/Fulani islamists that committed those bloodlettings knew not which part in Europe Denmark is located and yet, the felt the urge to take the life of any who is a christian or perceived as an infidel so far he/she doesn’t speak hausa which is 80% arabic. Another incidence is the case of Gideon Akaluka who was beheaded all because of an allegation that a page in the Quran was torn to and used as a toilet paper, there are countless cases like that here in Nigeria, mostly in the northern parts, one of the most heinous is the suppressed report of a Yoruba female invigilator (Mrs Oluwatoyin Oluwasesin) whose thrio was cut off in broad day light by pupil(s) whose crime was seizing the Holy Quran the pupil used in cheating during an IRK (Islamic religion knowledge) exam. It’s a fact that the christian crusaders did far worst during the days of their bloody campaigns. Now let us compare and contrasts those who have and still kills on behalf of the sanctified object attributed to their God's (Allah/Jeovah) with any who persons who is still yet to spits, or excretes on, or scatters the ‘ojubo’ of Ogun or (provided it’s has been configured/coded to react on its own behalf), no Ogun adherent would yell “blasphemy! Kill the Ogun violator” and yet the Ogun would react with such mean aggression as to defend itself. So why can't they leave their Allah or Jeovah God to defend himself with you doing killing a human you claimed your God made? So who's the real idol worshiper? I have reached a junction where Atheist vehemently disagrees with me in their forums, Since atheist’s sole weapon is science and technology, they find it extremely difficult to accept certain supernatural feat that can be done with the aid of what introduce to them as YAS (Yoruba Advanced Science) i.e. what we Yoruba call ogun (pronounced differently from Ogun the deity of Iron and War), In local parlances some may call it jaz, kurube, otumokpo and so on. For instance I once told a group of atheist that science says whatever goes up must always come down due to gravity but with the aid of YAS (ogun) it’s possible to effect an object such as clothes or bottle to remain suspended in thin air after been thrown up, they laughed at me saying it’s a magic trick and not a supernatural one (Atheists basically don’t accept anything that claims to be supernatural because of the so many supernaturality in the Christian Bible and Muslim Quran which they constantly debunk intelligently), when I made the mistake to further tell them about the possibility of how a human body can be made impervious to machete cuts or repel a bullet, they responded that not only was I delusional but that I was also trying to scam them in into something bizarre and senseless which I never did, they forgot the argument stemmed from my believe in the existence and efficacy of the supernatural which they strongly opposed, atheist believes nothing is supernatural and that, whatever may seem to be supernatural will one day be explainable/understandable by science and or therefore be replicated with technology and that because I couldn't provide visual evidence online or on youtube regarding my supernatural claims, therefore I should visit a psychiatrist. Here in Lagos, many who might not have been chanced to witness it must have heard numerous reports about certain characters who were shot with gun or cut with machetes and what was expected to happen didn't, these and several other supernatural incidents and tellings was what drove me to conduct personal investigation on said supernaturalism, and I hereby declare - though as they truly exist and work, it’s not easy to come across an AUTHENTIC onisegun/babalawo - I call them GYASP (Genuine Yoruba Advanced Science Practitioner). I also elaborated in my write-up book that despite the arcane knowledge of IFA and its ishegun sciences we never came up with any war-mongering motive to conquer the world or extend an empire like many imperialists/warlord had attempted but failed e.g. Alexander The Great, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Hitler etc.  I also made a detailed explanation as to why the James Randi challenge can never be won even when we (pagans, heathens, infidels, idol worshipers, etc) prove to the organization by demonstrating via the usage of YAS – real vanishing act, causing rain to fall or halting a falling one, perhaps demonstrating to them what they termed to mean 'teleportation' which even their wave/particle duality Physics/science only achieves them in theory and not practical. I have a lot to say but I am tired for now, all I know is that if the Arabs and the whites hadn’t brought their problem to us by disrupting our near-utopian societies for 4 centuries, hadn’t devastated us with slavery and colonialism for four century, and now neo-colonialism and worst of it all…their proselytizing religions (semitic faith), we the Yorubas (original source of all knowledge, philosophy and science) would have evolve our ishegun/ogun into a perfected state but I personally think we can still study, organised and packaged them in such a way it won't connote evil as they have led us to believe, but that can only be achievable only if we willingly drop Christianity and Islam just as many Americans and Britains are doing while embracing their science and technology and we use/buy/rely on their science and technology products, we must unite ourselves as one black race having our own unique respective identities and if other black African feels otherwise then I urge any reasonable Yoruba not to see our traditional ways as devilry but as ‘check and balances’ that our fore-fathers once used to govern themselves, I know two people that a malfunctioning refrigerator killed, should we stop buying them? Airplanes do fall from the sky, should we stop boarding them, a motor car can be use for a good purpose and also for an evil purpose, should we stop using automobiles? If your answer is NO, then see IFA and ogun(YAS) as such, there are tools to be used for either good or bad. If a farmer used a cutlass to kill a dangerous snake that might have hurt his son who assist him in farming, you'd say it's a good thing to do, but if that same cutlass was used by another person to commit murder, now that's an evil thing and you'd blame the murderer and not the cutlass, so does how ‘aluwo’ is; it can be used for self-defense and also to cause harm. ‘Madarikan’ is applied to ward evil/misfortune away but the proviso is whenever boons comes your way it get warded off, ‘Kanoko’ shortens long distance (5hours to 30 minutes) but the consequence is, it user must walk the uncovered distance in the dream state thus rendering the user weak and exasperated. The price to pay for riding a car that will cover 10km instead of walking is the money to buy fuel which one still has to work for in other to earn. There's always a price to pay except for some certain YAS that is nearing perfection due to it less or no consequence e.g. egbe (teleportation). I documented various types of YAS in my write-up elaborating their specific function and condition. I have and still do personal studies about anything Yoruba sciences and technology, culture and traditions; it’s painful and time-consuming. Adam

http://www.thenigerianvoice.com/nvnews/22866/1/they-cut-my-wife-into-pieces-and-set-her-on-fire.html

@SNC0Q3 and Yujin
Not too recently in January this year, Boko haram in their *now uncountable* killings of both innocent Igbos and Yoruba muslims and christans up north, they stormed Deeper Life and RCCG churches in Gombe and Adamawa shot more than 26 people while there worshiping, it was on radio, tv and newspapers. Why didn't your almighty Jeovah God alerted those innocent that died that the Boko harams were coming, or at least warned the pastors/reverend? In Yoruba Advanced Sciences aka ogun/jaz, there's what is call 'ifura' where if danger is approaching it will sense it and make a section of your body palpitate as a warning. I usually ask my chrisitian friends that why is it that in Europe and America we don't hear of pastors and reverend who performs miracles using Jesus power (except for the ones that have been proven to be falsehood by atheists, religious critics and skeptics like Peter Popof, etc) but here in Nigeria, we hear of several clergy men who heal and perform miracles in christian churches? As far as I am concern any clergyman here in Nigeria who does any supernatural feat claiming to be from Jeovah God is an hypocrites who realize no one would turn up at his/her church if he/she admits/acknowledges the original source of his power which is either two things 1. From a competent Babalawo maybe in his/her family or somewhere in a remote village   2. [/b]Inherent supernatural powers genetically gotten somewhere in his/her lineage e.g. Rev. Moon, T.B. Joshua and as for Chris Oyakilome and Helen Ukpaibo, they are not different to the cultural killers known as Mount Zion who produce movies that kills Yoruba traditions and values by demonizing and twisting it to confer occultic and devil worshiping. Is the present retrogressive state of Nigeria caused by our ancestral deities? Is it not in the name of Jeovah God and Allah evil people in the Nigerian government used to swear on before assuming office? Will you tell me that if you swore by Shango or Amadioha not to embezzle or misappropriate public funds, you will go scott fee because nothing will happen to you because you think it's like your semitic Gods? We don't even need anyone to believe in our Yoruba deities, just give it a try by making a oath over it and go ahead to steal our money.  Look at the horrible roads in most parts of Nigeria and especially Lagos, no basic amenities and social infrastructures everywhere, oh! it's Eshu  and Shango's fault, abi?. Check this out: http://economicconfidential.net/new/features/348-a-democracy-of-profligacy-and-outright-treasury-looting and http://www.elombah.com/news/node/3824

[b]@Martian

Religion as an organized institution is not only the opium of the masses, also "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful" ~Edward Gibbon

@Ptolomeus
Polytheism, monotheism or any type of theism still remain as a concept of the white people, to fit ours into any of the theism spectrum is difficult but I strongly think IFA to some extent can be viewed in 'terms of structure' with Henotheism regarding the deities or 401 IRUNMOLES OR ORISHAS.

Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by buzugee(m): 5:17pm On Feb 18, 2012
some of you people need help. there is a reason why you have been enslaved over 3 times in history (ancient egypt, babylonian and edomite enslavement in the americas), there is a reason why you are a degraded race of people and looked at as an astonishment by the rest of the world (deut 28 vs 20). there is a reason why your knowledge has been stopped and you have been made brain dead and foolish by the lord. there is a reason why all the heathen nations have been elevated over you while you have been left to stagnate. this is all biblical. there is a reason you are plagued with diseases (deut 28 vs 21). there is a reason why you are unsuccessful in everything you do and why unfair trade and colonialism happened to you (deut 28 vs 29). there is a reason for the unfair trade (deut 28 vs 33 ), there is a reason why other races rise above you (deut 28 vs 43-44), there is a reason why old and young people are left to die in poverty (deut 28 vs 50-52). heck just read all of deuteronomy chapter 28. you will see your life there and why you are going through what you are going through. you are going through all this because of your forsaking the lord and worshipping sango, obatala, etc etc. idolatry, human sacrifices. all our old gods is why we are in this predicament and why we will be in this predicament till the reign of the gentiles is over.

when you failed as a people, the lord elevated the heathen nations above you. salvation came to the gentiles because of our fall. romans 11 vs 11. the lord basically handed the rulership of the world away from the israelites (thats us black shemetic people) to the heathen nations for a period known as the reign of the gentiles.

i know you say well other cultures like the chinese and malaysians and europeans are successful despite holding on to their traditional rituals and worshipping and the western world is rich despite being a nation of pagans. well see, these are the heathen natiions that have been elevated to make you jealous romans 11 vs 11. so no matter how bad or evil or diabolical they are, they will still be prosperous and wealthy and advanced because the lord has handed the world to them and has elevated them. they are in their salvation now. they are in their heaven. we are in heathen heaven. thats why the world is forked up job 9 vs 24. heathens own and rule the world. they can worship sticks and woods but will still be prosperous because they do not have a convenant with God. they are only on top so as to punish you.

so it behooves you to get it right with God because when the reign of the gentiles is over, the world will be handed back to us and those of you who havent got it right then will be put to the sword along with all the heathen nations (who had a chance to prove themselves worthy when the world was handed to them but instead took to colonialism, wars for resources, slavery, genocide, lynching, unfair trade, stealing another mans land, mass Molesting of israelite slave women, selling children away from their mothers, abortion, introducing religion, getting the world to idolatry by worshipping a false white jesus, destroying the forest and the land, capitalism, using israelite babies as alligator baits, world population control with diseases, using israelites as guinea pigs for their experiments, amongst other atrocities).
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by buzugee(m): 5:25pm On Feb 18, 2012
check this video out but just fast-forward to the 7 minute mark and watch to 8.05 minute mark. only 1 minute. i am sure you have 1 minute to devote to the lord. and if the spirit moves you, watch it all. anyway within that minute hear the brother talk about we fell because we were worshipping sango (even though he pronounced it funny in an american way ) 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUAJwFQ2zlk
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by ghostofsparta(m): 6:38pm On Feb 18, 2012
buzugee:

RANTS

From your statement I presume you are a christian who lives in Agege, why do you still eat heathen foods like Fufu, Amala, Eba, Iyan, Afang, Edikayinkan, why don't you go to Israel and live not like a gentile. The mistake you all make is that you think arabs,  white christians and jews will tolerate you because you practice their religion. You're seriously mistaken. You are an hypocrite and a lost black soul.

Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by buzugee(m): 7:12pm On Feb 18, 2012
ghostofsparta:

From your statement I presume you are a christian who lives in Agege, why do you still eat heathen foods like Fufu, Amala, Eba, Iyan, Afang, Edikayinkan, why don't you go to Israel and live not like a gentile. The mistake you all make is that you think arabs,  white christians and jews will tolerate you because you practice their religion. You're seriously mistaken. You are an hypocrite and a lost black soul.
thats the problem. you are not enlightened enough to see that i am not promoting any religion. i dont follow islam or christianity and neither do i or have i lived in agege. i just like the way agege sounds grin . i am promoting a lifestyle governed by the laws statutes and commandments of Yahawah ba ha sham yahawashi. the merciful. the lord did not give us religion. man gave us religion. the lord gave us laws statutes and commandments. the bible is a history book as well as a guide and not a religious book. get it right fool before i crash all over you like white on rice
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by ghostofsparta(m): 7:56pm On Feb 18, 2012
buzugee:

thats the problem. you are not enlightened enough to see that i am not promoting any religion. i dont follow islam or christianity and neither do i or have i lived in agege. i just like the way agege sounds grin . i am promoting a lifestyle governed by the laws statutes and commandments of Yahawah ba ha sham yahawashi. the merciful. the lord did not give us religion. man gave us religion. the lord gave us laws statutes and commandments. the bible is a history book as well as a guide and not a religious book. get it right fool before i crash all over you like white on rice

I am enlighten enough to have used the word 'presume' and since you have showed how stup!d you are not to know the meaning of presume, let me enlighten you on the meaning of 'presume' - "t[i]o accept that something is almost certain to be correct even though there is no proof of it, on the grounds that it is extremely likely[/i]".

buzugee:

when you failed as a people, the lord elevated the heathen nations above you. salvation came to the gentiles because of our fall. romans 11 vs 11. the lord basically handed the rulership of the world away from the israelites (thats us black shemetic people) to the heathen nations for a period known as the reign of the gentiles.

By 'people' you are referring to those of us who to you are heathens, and that a lord of a fictional book which no one has ever set eyes on before elevated the heathens of other nations above the heathens here. Can't you see the illogic in your statement? Are you implying the holy bible prefers/accept some heathens over other type of heathens?

YOU ARE JUST AS CONFUSED AS THE HOLY CONFUSION YOU KEEP QUOTING FROM

Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by ghostofsparta(m): 8:00pm On Feb 18, 2012
buzugee, try reading any of the books below if you're still confused, try setting your mind free, many of your confused questions are answered there

Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by buzugee(m): 8:01pm On Feb 18, 2012
ghostofsparta:

I am enlighten enough to have used the word 'presume' and since you have showed how stup!d you are not to know the meaning of presume, let me enlighten you on the meaning of 'presume' - "t[i]o accept that something is almost certain to be correct even though there is no proof of it, on the grounds that it is extremely likely[/i]".

By 'people' you are referring to those of us who to you are heathens, and that a lord of a fictional book which no one has ever set eyes on before elevated the heathens of other nations above the heathens here. Can't you see the illogic in your statement? Are you implying the holy bible prefers/accept some heathens over other type of heathens?

YOU ARE JUST AS CONFUSED AS THE HOLY CONFUSION YOU KEEP QUOTING FROM


you obviously are not enlightened enough to use proper grammer. you illiterate knuckle dragging atheist grin
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by buzugee(m): 8:07pm On Feb 18, 2012
ghostofsparta:

buzugee, try reading any of the books below if you're still confused, try setting your mind free, many of your confused questions are answered there
speaking of books, you must be the dumbest person out there. the white man comes to your country with the bible. uses the bible to conquer your people. then after he has used the words of God as a means to an end, he discards it and then decides he doesnt need it anymore. then he embraces atheism and writes numerous books about atheism, and you the conquered flock to the new book and doctrine of your massa. how slow are you ? you are the slowest person i have had the misfortune to run across on this forum angry
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by PAGAN9JA(m): 8:16pm On Feb 18, 2012
ghostofsparta:

PAGAN 9JA, I KIND OF I DISAGREE WITH YOUR THEORY BECAUSE I HAVE A REASON TO THINK all Pagan religions NEVER came around the same time when man came/evolved into his current form., IT WILL BE TOO HARD AND VOLUMINOUS TO START EXPLAINING MY THEORY HERE, BUT SINCE I SUPPOSE YOU HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT IFA IS, WHY DON'T YOU SEND ME AN EMAIL WITH YOUR NUMBER TO ghostsofsparta@live.com, I WANT TO EXPLAIN THE ASPECT THAT ALL OF THEM PLAGIARIZED IT FROM THE ANCIENT YORUBA PEOPLE BEFORE IT WAS TRANSPOSED TO THE NAMES WE NOW READ IN BOOKS HISTORY RECORDED TODAY, WHAT I AM POINTING AT TOOK A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, IT WASN'T A DIRECT THING AS YOU THOUGHT I MEAN. IF YOU AGREE ON MY THEORY THEN I WILL TRY TO SUMMARIZE IT HERE FOR OTHERS TO READ.



Brother GhostofSparta, you are on the right track no doubt, but i can never agree upon this particular view. I am not Yoruba. I am Maguzawa Hausa. We have our own ancient history, religion and culture. Remember brother, we are all tribals, and this is the aspect that[b] unites [/b] us more than divides all over the world. we are the people as should be. the whites, AAs, europeans, etc are mixed people and have spread nothing but destruction. Our religions are ancient and time immemorial. and as i said, what make our religion true, is the fact that it is natural and has no founder, i.e. it is divine, exiisting since the time man first saw lightning, fire, and truly experienced the forces. to say that other Pagan religions such as my Hausa religion, Native American religion, Hinduism, Japanese religion, Papuan, aboriginal, Greek religion, Andamanese religiion, etc and all other true religions are copied from Yoruba Ifa Orisha is false and not right. its is like what christians say, that they are right and everyone else is wrong. NO, brother. remove this false influenced belief. We are different peoples and we all have our own identity.  wink ALL OUR TRIBAL RELIGIONS PROBABLY CAME AROUND THE SAME TIME, SINCE TIME IMMEMORIAL, unlike man-made judaism(moses), islam(muhammad) and christianity(jesus).


also there is nothing wrong with idol worship. idol worship is[b] the reality[/b]. it is not the idol, we Pagans worship because after all, the idol is only wood or stone. but, it is what the idol represents. as i said before, we humans are materialistic by nature and we need to touch sense or feel the presence of God, thereby we use idols to form an image in our minds. even the most hardcore muslim and christian tries to form an image of God in his mind, though he will refuse to admit it outwardly. Therefore dont be influenced by these monotheists in their false spite to the idols. ofcourse, the reason why we respect idols is because it represents and symbolises the divine, THOUGH IT ITSELF IS NOT THE SPIRTUAL FORCE.
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by ghostofsparta(m): 8:53pm On Feb 18, 2012
@Pagan 9JA
I will get back to you later as I still disagree with you on that respect, I am tired for now, need to take a break, but let me just quickly say - I never implied everyone else copied directly from the Yorubas' IFA thingy, I personally conducted some researches and from the hues of similarities I observed, I therefore concluded that others (i.e. the Greeks myths, Roman myths, Assyrian myths, Egyptian myths, Norse Myths etc) transposed it from ours i.e. IFA(Yoruba), AFA(Igbo) ?(Hausa). If a Norse man or a modern day viking sage in Sweden, Norway or Denmark is asked to demonstrate the effect of their Thor (God of Thunder), I doubt he/she can. But here in western Nigeria, there are masters of Shango sciences and power. I hope you get why I use "compare and contrast" as a tool to evaluate and know who were the original custodian of this myths, ours aren't even mythology rather real because not only can be proven but also channeled for every day life. Be it good or bad.

buzugee:

you obviously are not enlightened enough to use proper grammer. you illiterate knuckle dragging atheist grin

Now, you have just confirmed to me that you are indeed CONFUSED, buzugee it's a normal thing for any body who believe in fairy tales and since there are so many like you in the world, please don't feel bad about it because you are not alone. If you read my previous last last post you will understand that I am not an atheists as you've falsely presumed, though I use most of their views to debunk the two most evil religions of the world, Since you quoted some gibberish about a language which isn't yours, I tend to assume you are into Judaism, am I right? And lastly, I don't have time to return your insults, though I love insult and find them assuming coming from a black man who thinks himself a gentile just are like many Nigerians who don't like to read anything apart from the The Holy Confusion, and romantic novels and whatever the need to pass their exams, then kindly take time to look at the pictures here http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=865594.msg10225195#msg10225195 and http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=869536.msg10224708#msg10224708

I will post more picture later, good night

Happy viewing!!!!

Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by buzugee(m): 9:11pm On Feb 18, 2012
ghostofsparta:

@Pagan 9JA
I will get back to you later as I still disagree with you on that respect, I am tired for now, need to take a break, but let me just quickly say - I never implied everyone else copied directly from the Yorubas' IFA thingy, I personally conducted some researches and from the hues of similarities I observed, I therefore concluded that others (i.e. the Greeks myths, Roman myths, Assyrian myths, Egyptian myths, Norse Myths etc) transposed it from ours i.e. IFA(Yoruba), AFA(Igbo) ?(Hausa). If a Norse man or a modern day viking sage in Sweden, Norway or Denmark is asked to demonstrate the effect of their Thor (God of Thunder), I doubt he/she can. But here in western Nigeria, there are masters of Shango sciences and power. I hope you get why I use "compare and contrast" as a tool to evaluate and know who were the original custodian of this myths, ours aren't even mythology rather real because not only can be proven but also channeled for every day life. Be it good or bad.

Now, you have just confirmed to me that you are indeed CONFUSED, buzugee it's a normal thing for any body who believe in fairy tales and since there are so many like you in the world, please don't feel bad about it because you are not alone. If you read my previous last last post you will understand that I am not an atheists as you've falsely presumed, though I use most of their views to debunk the two most evil religions of the world, Since you quoted some gibberish about a language which isn't yours, I tend to assume you are into Judaism, am I right? And lastly, I don't have time to return your insults, though I love insult and find them assuming coming from a black man who thinks himself a gentile just are like many Nigerians who don't like to read anything apart from the The Holy Confusion, and romantic novels and whatever the need to pass their exams, then kindly take time to look at the pictures here http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=865594.msg10225195#msg10225195 and http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=869536.msg10224708#msg10224708

I will post more picture later, good night

Happy viewing!!!!
i see comprehension is not one of your greatest assets. i have repeated numerous times that i am not into RELIGION and hence i am not into judaism either. is the bible in its purest form ? no it is not. has it been corrupted since the world was handed over to the heathens ? YES. but not corrupted enough that you do not understand the message. the bible is culled from manuscripts that belong to us when we were in palestine. the bible is a regurgitated version of our manuscripts. ok it was ours to begin with. the white man did not bring to us some new scriptures. what the white man did is bring back to us forcibly what we were supposed to be doing in the first place (an act of God of course by letting your enemy and captive bring to you why you were in the predicament in the first place). ok so this had nothing to do with the white man. did he corrupt it a little when he compiled it ? yes, but the lord will not let him corrupt it to the point where the message is illegible and diffused. PAGANISM AND ATHEISM or whatever it is you believe in, on the other hand, are all from the white man because he is by nature a heathen and a paganist. so it is laughable that you are the one pointing the fingers when your platform is based off of what a heathen nation does.  and english language is the black mans language. it was initially called angelica and was formed when blacks still ruled europe by black norsmen and black vikings and black danes
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by buzugee(m): 9:38pm On Feb 18, 2012
how did the manuscripts get into the white mans hands ? when the greeks invaded palestine they stole it (an act of GOD) as the israelites were off worshipping false Gods (shango oya obatala). from the greeks it went to the romans and from the romans it was compiled into the bible. the romans kicked us out of palestine in 70 AD into west and south africa and then the roman empire fell and the edomites took control of the world and then came to were we were kicked to in africa with the bible to give us what we were supposed to be doing in the first place and the reason we fell (you starting to see that God has a sense of humor ? albeit mixing it with a bit of pain ? ) . then we got the bible, still decided to worship sango, so the deuteronomy curses kicked in and the white man came in and took us off to slavery in america and all over the world while enforcing colonialism on us and unfair trade and subjugation. are you starting to see that while the white man is satan, he is the tool being used by GOD against us. he is the whipping stick of God. God uses the white man to teach us a lesson. what is your job ? get back to God and not follow the doctrines of the white man (atheism, paganism and all this foolishness. ). yall better get it right with God because when he returns and you still havent gotten it right, you will be put to the sword. you have been warned. Our lord works in mysterious ways. you can see from the trail i have created how he follows us everywhere with a whipping stick and the word. even in slavery he made sure the slave masters made the bible available to the slaves to wake them up as to why they were in that predicament.
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by ghostofsparta(m): 9:23pm On Feb 21, 2012
buzugee:

how did the manuscripts get into the white mans hands ? when the greeks invaded palestine they stole it (an act of GOD) as the israelites were off worshipping false Gods (shango oya obatala). from the greeks it went to the romans and from the romans it was compiled into the bible. the romans kicked us out of palestine in 70 AD into west and south africa and then the roman empire fell and the edomites took control of the world and then came to were we were kicked to in africa with the bible to give us what we were supposed to be doing in the first place and the reason we fell (you starting to see that God has a sense of humor ? albeit mixing it with a bit of pain ? ) . then we got the bible, still decided to worship sango, so the deuteronomy curses kicked in and the white man came in and took us off to slavery in america and all over the world while enforcing colonialism on us and unfair trade and subjugation. are you starting to see that while the white man is satan, he is the tool being used by GOD against us. he is the whipping stick of God. God uses the white man to teach us a lesson. what is your job ? get back to God and not follow the doctrines of the white man (atheism, paganism and all this foolishness. ). yall better get it right with God because when he returns and you still havent gotten it right, you will be put to the sword. you have been warned. Our lord works in mysterious ways. you can see from the trail i have created how he follows us everywhere with a whipping stick and the word. even in slavery he made sure the slave masters made the bible available to the slaves to wake them up as to why they were in that predicament.

All what you said is total B.S., I think you read another universe version of our history, go back to your universe if you are lost here.
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Ptolomeus(m): 10:19pm On Feb 21, 2012
ghostofsparta:

@Ptolomeus
Polytheism, monotheism or any type of theism still remain as a concept of the white people, to fit ours into any of the theism spectrum is difficult but I strongly think IFA to some extent can be viewed in 'terms of structure' with Henotheism regarding the deities or 401 IRUNMOLES OR ORISHAS.

Dear friend.
Thank you very much for your kind and clear answer.
I also understand that Judaism (as well as religions pray) in its origins can be defined as henotheism, to then lead to changes in concepts.
My sincere thanks and my best wishes!
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:50pm On Feb 22, 2012
buzugee:

how did the manuscripts get into the white mans hands ? when the greeks invaded palestine they stole it (an act of GOD) as the israelites were off worshipping false Gods (shango oya obatala). from the greeks it went to the romans and from the romans it was compiled into the bible. the romans kicked us out of palestine in 70 AD into west and south africa and then the roman empire fell and the edomites took control of the world and then came to were we were kicked to in africa with the bible to give us what we were supposed to be doing in the first place and the reason we fell (you starting to see that God has a sense of humor ? albeit mixing it with a bit of pain ? ) . then we got the bible, still decided to worship sango, so the deuteronomy curses kicked in and the white man came in and took us off to slavery in america and all over the world while enforcing colonialism on us and unfair trade and subjugation. are you starting to see that while the white man is satan, he is the tool being used by GOD against us. he is the whipping stick of God. God uses the white man to teach us a lesson. what is your job ? get back to God and not follow the doctrines of the white man (atheism, paganism and all this foolishness. ). yall better get it right with God because when he returns and you still havent gotten it right, you will be put to the sword. you have been warned. Our lord works in mysterious ways. you can see from the trail i have created how he follows us everywhere with a whipping stick and the word. even in slavery he made sure the slave masters made the bible available to the slaves to wake them up as to why they were in that predicament.


wow seriously! what a WASTE of words. shocked
Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Horus(m): 12:13pm On Feb 23, 2012

Yoruba Shrine Head (Ancestor Figure)
12th-14th Century
Terra Cotta
H. 12 in W. 5 3/4 in D. 7 in.


Sculptures are often used as a means for preserving the spirit of the deceased. Such memorials continue to play a central role in the community. They are appealed to as entities capable of bestowing worldly blessings and security


Figures of the Ram-god of the Yoruba on a private shrine.

Some sculptures are placed on altars for chiefs of royal lineage past into ancestor-hood.  Ram heads, such as the one pictured (above) are popular.  These are not only to provide honor for the deceased, but more importantly they are thought to embody the chief and his continuing powers to bestow fertility and success on his people. Ram heads existed also in ancient Egypt (Below)

Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:44pm On Dec 27, 2012
WE NEED NATIONAL TEMPLE IN ABUJA! angry

Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by AtheistD(m): 6:29pm On Dec 27, 2012
Just a light mention. I dont want to go into too much debate yet but take these 2 examples:

England is the founding nation for the Church of England (Anglican and Episcopalian) faith. Stone henge is a pagan monument but is and has always been a major tourist attraction. It is close to 6000 years old. Why dont they pull it down.

Rome in Italy is the capital of the Roman Catholic Faith. St Peters Basilica in Rome which is now a church was once a Pantheon (religious building for all the roman gods). Why didnt they pull it down?

YOU DO NOT DESTROY YOUR CULTURE AND HISTORY!!!!!

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Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by PAGAN9JA(m): 6:33pm On Dec 27, 2012
^and also the Ka'aba.

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