I personally think not.

Having carried out tons of reading and study , I am not only convinced that God is anti-war, but more importantly that Jesus will not support, does not support and is mystified at Christians who nonchalantly sit back while the Israel war machine prepares for a major war between 2012 - 2013 in the middle east.

I am worried that these wars are putting at risk the remnant Christian communites in the middle east, for example the Christians in Iraq who lived in relative peace and security under Saddam have mostly fled the country , and for those who remain, persecution is the norm. We see the same fear in the minds of Syrian Christians , who are baffled why America ( so called Christian nation ) is supporting the Muslim brotherhood against Assad.

The Egyptian so called Arab spring, was actually the  Muslims brotherhood taking over, attacks of Egyptian Christian Copts have spiralled out of control , indeed the Copts , the real Egyptians , are mortified at their fate in the new Egypt.

Remember that Christians have had some difficulty in these countries but nothing like what is coming if these nations are overunn by the Muslim brotherhood

Secondly Christians should be praying for the salvation of their enemies and not their destruction. I have watched not a few Youtube videos, where I watch in horror as so called Zionst Christians , are praying and almost begging for a war with Iran, irrespective of the collateral damage and the destruction of human life that is sure to be the aftermath.

Our duty is not to support the war warmongering leadership of the Israeli government but to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, for the salvation of both Jew and Arab and more significantly the protection and preservation of life and property.

Any Christian who supports Israel's warmongering efforts, better check up on his standing with God.

God is not pro Jew and anti- Arab , God is pro only those who honour him and tremble at his word, Jew or gentile.

As an ex-Christian Zionist, I am just about fedup with this blind support for the Israel Government , whose leaders are mainly Talmudic ,Kabba and or Atheist Jews.

Our main worry should not be just ISLAM, since we can identify it by a mile, we should carefully look at Israel for the signs of the anti Christ.

Israel is armed to the teeth and America is sure to follow in any attack on Iran or Syria.

Consider these verses of scripture :

"Instead of them, he will honor a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his fathers he will honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts" -  Daniel 11:38

"Pray for peace in Jerusalem. May all who love this city prosper."- Psalm 122:6

"frosbel",i must commend you for this thread and even though i do not necessarily agree with all that you said.

i just want to point out one thing that is really ridiculous and it is this phrase in the article:

"indeed the Copts , the real Egyptians".

what do you mean that the Coptic Christians in Egypt are the "real egyptians"? are you saying the Muslim Egyptians are not as real or are fake?

actually this isn't the first time ive heard these amusing words.true that the Egyptians were coptic before the coming of Islam to Egypt.but does that make those who became Muslim any less Egyptian than those who remained christian? i think this is a selective way of looking at history.if we are to look at history from the time christianity came about,then we could as well say there is no real egyptian present in the world because all pure egyptians were neither christian nor muslim.

likewise,you could as well say that the traditional worshippers in yorubaland are the "real yorubas" while the muslim and christian yorubas are not real.

that is way too funny!

LagosShia:

"frosbel",i must commend you for this thread and even though i do not necessarily agree with all that you said.

i just want to point out one thing that is really ridiculous and it is this phrase in the article:

"indeed the Copts , the real Egyptians".

that is way too funny! 

I think you laughed too soon.

The Copts are some of the original Egyptians and are not ARAB.

Read the below :

The word Copts comes from the Greek word “Egyptos”, which means Egyptian. According to a lecture delivered by a Coptic Bishop at the Hudson Institute, located in Washington DC, the Arab invasion of Egypt in 639 A.D. has altered the identity of Egypt through Arabization and forced conversion to Islam. This Bishop added that “The Copts have been always focused on Egypt; it is our identity, it is our nation, it is our land, it is our language, it is our culture. But when some of the Egyptians converted to Islam, their focus changed away from looking to their own language and culture. They started to look at the Arabians, and Arabia became the main focus.”

Continue reading at NowPublic.com: Why copts are not arabs | NowPublic News Coverage

Iran said that they will wipe Israel out of the map. That statement is not a Joke, If Israel is attacked it must defend herself.

If a terrorist comes into your house and you have a gun to take him out, will you let him kill you or you have to shoot him?

And you seem to contradict yourself. Look at all hostile countries around Israel.Lebanon(with Hezbollah armed with thousands of rocket missles) in the north, Syria and Jordan to the east, Egypt on the southwest(which is now being controlled by the radical moslem brotherhood and palestine(Hamas incharge)

There are two options here. It is either you are for Israel or for these nations that are headed by terrorist.

frosbel:

I think you laughed too soon.

The Copts are some of the original Egyptians and are not ARAB.

Read the below :

The word Copts comes from the Greek word “Egyptos”, which means Egyptian. According to a lecture delivered by a Coptic Bishop at the Hudson Institute, located in Washington DC, the Arab invasion of Egypt in 639 A.D. has altered the identity of Egypt through Arabization and forced conversion to Islam. This Bishop added that “The Copts have been always focused on Egypt; it is our identity, it is our nation, it is our land, it is our language, it is our culture. But when some of the Egyptians converted to Islam, their focus changed away from looking to their own language and culture. They started to look at the Arabians, and Arabia became the main focus.”

Continue reading at NowPublic.com: Why copts are not arabs | NowPublic News Coverage

frosbel it is common sense even though scarce and not common knowledge that many countries in the middle east are called "arab" for linguistic and not cultural,ethnic or racial factors.there is no doubt that arabization and assimilation took place in egypt as it did also in syria,palestine,lebanon,jordan,iraq,sudan,e.t.c.

nontheless,the people who are indigenous to those lands cannot be viewed any less than being from those lands even after intermarrying with arabians and adopting arabic and becoming muslims.the coptic christians in egypt themselves speak arabic today.they can deny being arabians and so are the egyptian muslims not arabians.being "arab" for linguistic reason is different from being "arabian" for ethnic and cultural reasons.the saudis are arabians but egyptians like palestinians and others are not arabians be they muslims or christians.so the copitc christians in egypt speak arabic.if they are not arab by that,then no one really is saying they are arabians.but why fool themselves and claim less for others that are just like them when they speak arabic?

jmoore:

Iran said that they will wipe Israel out of the map. That statement is not a Joke, If Israel is attacked it must defend herself.

If a terrorist comes into your house and you have a gun to take him out, will you let him kill you or you have to shoot him?

And you seem to contradict yourself. Look at all hostile countries around Israel.Lebanon(with Hezbollah armed with thousands of rocket missles) in the north, Syria and Jordan to the east, Egypt on the southwest(which is now being controlled by the radical moslem brotherhood and palestine(Hamas incharge)

There are two options here. It is either you are for Israel or for these nations that are headed by terrorist.

Israel can wipe out the entire middle east 10 times over.

Do you really think Iran will want to commit suicide by attacking Israel, Iran simply wants nuclear weapons for self-defence after seeing what happened to Iraq and Afghanistan. More like a weapon of last resort in the face of obliteration.


Israel has almost 300 nuclear war heads and also missiles such as the Jericho 3 that can not only cover the entire IRAN but also reach Europe.

"According to an official report which was submitted to the American congress in 2004,[7] it may be that with a payload of 1,000 kg the Jericho III gives Israel nuclear strike capabilities within the entire Middle East, Africa, Europe, Asia and almost all parts of North America, as well as within large parts of South America and North Oceania. MissileThreat.com reports: "The range of the Jericho 3 also provides an extremely high impact speed for nearby targets, enabling it to avoid any Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) defenses that may develop in the immediate region." - From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_(missile)



Now we talk about Conventional warfare, Israel still has the edge, since they are high advanced in technology and even sell drones and military weapons to Turkey , China and India.


Think about it, what chance does Iran have, if Israel unleashes it's full might.

Let us stop this blind support of Israel., I watched the Lebanon war in 2006 and while it resulted in a stalemate, the horrors of the destruction of human life still sticks with me today.

The life of an Arab is no less than the life of a Jew.


If Arab nations attack Israel then Israel has every right to retaliate, but what is the business of a Christian supporting one side against the other 

jmoore:

Iran said that they will wipe Israel out of the map. That statement is not a Joke, If Israel is attacked it must defend herself.

but presently it is israel that is threatening iran with strikes and war and even trying to push america into a war with iran.

If a terrorist comes into your house and you have a gun to take him out, will you let him kill you or you have to shoot him?

and you should read exactly about zionist terrorism in palestine and how israel was created.it wasn't peaceful.the zionist terrorists came from europe.

And you seem to contradict yourself. Look at all hostile countries around Israel.Lebanon(with Hezbollah armed with thousands of rocket missles) in the north, Syria and Jordan to the east, Egypt on the southwest(which is now being controlled by the radical moslem brotherhood and palestine(Hamas incharge)

and the fact remains that israel has either invaded or occupied all of them.

and israel is the only country in the middle east to have nuclear weapons and the only country established by displacing indigenous people from their lands and replacing them with others from distant continents on the basis of religion and religious cleansing.

There are two options here. It is either you are for Israel or for these nations that are headed by terrorist.

how do you judge who is "terrorist" and what is "terrorism"? what is the yardstick? is anyone against israel and fighting zionist occupation and land theft a "terrorist"? how do you judge?

frosbel:

Do you really think Iran will want to commit suicide by attacking Israel, Iran simply wants nuclear weapons for self-defence after seeing what happened to Iraq and Afghanistan. More like a weapon of last resort in the face of obliteration.


If Arab nations attack Israel then Israel has every right to retaliate, but what is the business of a Christian supporting one side against the other 

I know Israel have nuclear weapons they are for self-defense too.

The Jihadist wants to claim Jerusalem as their holy city, that is what you are missing. Go and ask Moslem brotherhood, it is no longer a secret.

LagosShia :
and the fact remains that israel has either invaded or occupied all of them.

There was never a Palestine. Arabs came into Israel and were allowed to settle as they engaged in trade, as time went on they  started claiming the land as their own.

@ frosbel,

You may want to check out this debate

http://vimeo.com/32044290

jmoore:

There was never a Palestine. Arabs came into Israel and were allowed to settle as they engaged in trade, as time went on they  started claiming the land as their own.

frosbel,i hope you are taking note of the above statement.this is actually a historical injustice against the palestinian people simply because they are called "arabs" and they speak arabic and majority of them are muslims while 25% of palestinians are christians.

this man is telling us that the palestinians came from arabia through trade and they started claiming lands.it is as if he did not read my posts with you (frosbel) where i stated that many people or nations in the middle east are linguistically arabs in contrast to the arabians of the arabian peninsula like the saudis and yemenis who are ethnically arabian and culturally too.

the palestinians have jewish,israelite,canaanite,persian,roman,arab,turkish ancestries.there are entire families in the town of Nablus in the occupied terrorities who are palestinians descended from the samaritans (mentioned in the new testament) who embraced Islam.the palestinians did not come from arabia.their root is in palestine.if they speak hebrew or aramaic while embracing Islam,this confusion would not have resulted.but unfortunately,the arabians did not only spread Islam but also arabian culture and their language of arabic.

you can do yourself help by reading who the PALESTINIAN PEOPLE are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#DNA_and_genetic_studies

jmoore:

I know Israel have nuclear weapons they are for self-defense too.

a country that exists on occupation,invasion and religious cleansing cannot claim to be defending itself.

a number of zionist jewish settlers who came from europe are converts and are not even jewish by ancestry.

The Jihadist wants to claim Jerusalem as their holy city, that is what you are missing. Go and ask Moslem brotherhood, it is no longer a secret.

when Muslims ruled over jerusalem up to the ottoman times,Jerusalem was for muslims,christians and jews.it was never for one religion.it is only since israel was established that Jerusalem witnessed persecution against both christians and muslims.israel sees itself as a "jewish state".so there goes the discrimination and racism.

LagosShia:

"indeed the Copts , the real Egyptians".

what do you mean that the Coptic Christians in Egypt are the "real egyptians"? are you saying the Muslim Egyptians are not as real or are fake?

actually this isn't the first time ive heard these amusing words.true that the Egyptians were coptic before the coming of Islam to Egypt.but does that make those who became Muslim any less Egyptian than those who remained christian?

The arab muslims were invaders. they are not the indigenous egyptians, i think that much is historically accurate.

@ topic, America and christian Europe has a duty to protect Israel. I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here but does he mean to claim that God was unhappy at the 1948 and 1967 wars of survival that Israel fought?

davidylan:

The arab muslims were invaders. they are not the indigenous egyptians, i think that much is historically accurate.

the arabian muslims.the arab speaking people from arabia were invaders.but the muslims in those lands like egypt and palestine are indigenous.they were arabized and assimilated and they embraced islam.

i hope you are not saying that the local muslim populations are invaders.it is like describing nigerian christians as colonialist because they took christianity from the colonial masters.

the arabians were a strong military power.they invaded the entire middle east and assimilated those people and made them their own by giving them arabic and religion and the invaders themselves blended with the locals through intermarriage and religious and language ties.historically,arabia did not have a population big enough to spread across the middle east and invade making those lands predominantly "arabic".the big arab population you see in the world is not homogenous.the majority are linguistically arab who were assimilated and arabized from indigenous populations across the middle east and north africa.

LagosShia:

the arabian muslims.the arab speaking people from arabia were invaders.but the muslims in those lands like egypt and palestine are indigenous.they were arabized and assimilated and they embraced islam.

To say they were "arabized" is not the same as saying they "embraced islam". Two different things. I dont expect unthinking drones like you to understand anyway. The facts are clear, islam is an interloper in Egypt. Prior to that, Egypt, Algeria e.t.c. were christian countries. Even today the copts STILL maintain their christian heritage so how exactly did they "embrace islam"?

LagosShia:

i hope you are not saying that the local muslim populations are invaders.it is like describing nigerian christians as colonialist because they took christianity from the colonial masters.

this is silly. Are the white south africans not invaders?

LagosShia:

the arabians were a strong military power.they invaded the entire middle east and assimilated those people and make them their own by giving them arabic and religion.historically,arabia did not have a population big enough to spread across the middle east and invade making those land predominantly "arabic".the big arab population you see in the world is not homogenous.the majority are linguistically arab who were assimilated and arabized from indigenous populations across the middle east and north africa.

Another BS post.

davidylan:

To say they were "arabized" is not the same as saying they "embraced islam". Two different things. I dont expect unthinking drones like you to understand anyway. The facts are clear, islam is an interloper in Egypt. Prior to that, Egypt, Algeria e.t.c. were christian countries. Even today the copts STILL maintain their christian heritage so how exactly did they "embrace islam"?

can you tell us why christians in Lebanon and Iraq are "arab" but people in Iran and Turkey are muslims but not arab?

the influence of the arabians went beyond just introducing Islam.the administrative language was arabic.the turks and persians adopted Islam but maintained their cultures and languages.weaker groups especially those living in the Levant and north africa who were more less small or divided among themselves were assimilated and Islamized.there are places where both took place (islamization and arabization).there are places where only either one took place.have you ever wondered how come Sudan is arab and they are blacks and Syrians are also arab and many syrians are very fair and different from the saudis?

this is silly. Are the white south africans not invaders?

the white south africans remained a distinct ethnic and political group.the arabians did not.they invaded and blended in the local populations.for example in Iran,you find many today who are persians but claim descent from the Prophet Muhammad (sa) and put on black turbans and are known as "sayyis".


let us take south american spanish speaking countries as an example.those countries speak spanish and the local languages are almost extinct.yet these people did not come from spain (they are not spaniards).they are however spanish.the case in the middle east is even deeper as the local languages are extinct.in Syria,Palestine and Lebanon for example,aramaic (the language Jesus spoke) was spoken there up to the 15th century.but now aramaic in palestine,syria and lebanon is lost and rarely heard or spoken by the people there.arabic is the official language in both syria and lebanon.

LagosShia:

can you tell us why christians in Lebanon and Iraq are "arab" but people in Iran and Turkey are muslims but not arab?

and can you tell us how many christians are left in the countries you mention? Lebanon used to be 80% christian as at 1964, where did they all go?

LagosShia:

the white south africans remained a distinct ethnic and political group.the arabians did not.they invaded and blended in the local populations.for example in Iran,you find many today who are persians but claim descent from the Prophet Muhammad (sa) and put on black turbans and are known as "sayyis".

this is an easily refuted lie. Look at the arabs of Egypt and Morocco, do they look like they blended with anything non-white?

davidylan:

The arab muslims were invaders. they are not the indigenous egyptians, i think that much is historically accurate.

@ topic, America and christian Europe has a duty to protect Israel. I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here but does he mean to claim that God was unhappy at the 1948 and 1967 wars of survival that Israel fought?

And tell me, why do America and Europe have a duty to protect Israel. First off, there is absolutely nothing godly about this whole thing, a godless Europe and largely apostate America support Israel, and that should make Christians rejoice 

You seem to add a lot of hype to Israel, not forgetting that they still reject Christ Jesus and persecute Christians , I have watched videos and read articles that left me in shock as to why many Christians, instead of praying for the salvation of Arabs , become cheer leaders for Israel and it's multiple wars.

Sorry , you are on your own with this one, I am still in support of Jews as a race, but totally against the collective punishment Israel inflicts on Palestinian families.

And yes, they have a right to defend themselves, but this is purely secular, it is not the duty of Christians to support such wars, our call is to witness the Truth.

wow an enlightened christian on one hand and as usual a bigoted fanatical christian on d other hand. a sick christian i may add. when a talmud empowered hater of Jesus who calls himself a jew fires his gun and murders a palestinian family it's okay for this bigot even though that family is christian. brainwashed fanatical swine.

davidylan:

and can you tell us how many christians are left in the countries you mention? Lebanon used to be 80% christian as at 1964, where did they all go?

men,do you make these statements to impress the deaf,dumb and blind?

the census conducted in 1932 by the french colonialists indicated that the christians in lebanon were 54% of the population.yet,that is seen as suspicious by many and an excuse by the french for handing over power to an executive president from the christian maronite sect.presently,there is no disagreement that the muslims (shia and sunni) form a majority in lebanon and the christians hardly make up to 35%.

where did you get 80% from in 1964? 

this is an easily refuted lie. Look at the arabs of Egypt and Morocco, do they look like they blended with anything non-white?

do you want to deny firstly that the north africans have more african features and curly hair than the lebanese,syrian,palestinian and jordanians who were under more european influence and farther away from arabian and african influence?

secondly,most of north africa even before the coming og Islam and the arabians was inhabited by the berbers.the berbers are not blacks.those berbers spoke their languages and they too experienced assimilation and arabization.up to this day north africa has a large population of berbers.if im not mistaken,those identifying themselves as berbers are more than those identifying themselves as arabs in Morocco.

aurenflani:

wow an enlightened christian on one hand and as usual a bigoted fanatical christian on d other hand. a sick christian i may add. when a talmud empowered hater of Jesus who calls himself a jew fires his gun and murders a palestinian family it's okay for this bigot even though that family is christian. brainwashed fanatical swine.

If you don't want to have a bad week, leave this thread alone

Honestly I have no time for Boko Haram Jihadists like you, just go and do what you guys do best,

WELL, I PERSONALLY DO NOT THINK MIDDLE EAST WARS HAVE TO DO WITH RELIGION AS MUCH AS RACE.
If arabs were communists, i don't think there'll be much difference. So i think we stop our own religious debate
Therefore, in answering the question, i would say,
If you are a small country surrounded by enemies who publicly announce regularly that they desire to wipe you out, then your best bet is to constistently seek to have an edge militarily over the enemies and if you think attacking is the best/only way of defence in ensuring your survival,it's difficult to convince such a country to back down.
That Said,
I firmly believe that God doesn't want Wars.

jmoore said

Iran said that they will wipe Israel out of the map.

Where and when did ''Iran'' say this?

Care to point to the exact quote?

Rossikk:

jmoore said "Iran said that they will wipe Israel out of the map. That statement is not a Joke, If Israel is attacked it must defend herself"



Where and when did ''Iran'' say this?

Care to point to the exact quote?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/world/africa/26iht-iran.html


http://articles.cnn.com/2005-10-26/world/ahmadinejad_1_israel-jerusalem-day-islamic-world?_s=PM:WORLD


It is very important to note that Hitler said what he was going to do with the Jews, he wrote a book on it about his plans but world leaders ignored him, when Hitler came into power he did he said. I hope you have heard about the Holocaust.

Israel have learnt from the past and they will take a preventive attack instead of a retaliatory attack on Iran nuclear facilities if Iran continues with it's nuclear program

When are you guys going to realize these middle eastern myths are all fake?

Should any Negro ever support Is-it-real, synagogue of satan? Rev 2:9 and 3:9