We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion - Religion (12) - Nairaland
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| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:24pm On Aug 08, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: All I can make sense of in your treatise is that you want to know where almighty God is used to depict the Lord Jesus Christ. Here are a few scriptures. In John 8:58 Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I am." I AM was the most revered divine name of God in the Old Testament (Ex. 3:14). Christ was not merely claiming that He existed before Abraham, but that He was still in existence before Abraham. Dr. A.T. Robertson, one of the greatest Greek scholars who ever lived, had this to say about John 8:58 after translating it "I am": "Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God." Others are: "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." --Revelation 22:12,13 Revelation 21:5-7 reads: "He who is seated on the throne said "Behold, I make all things new" And he said unto me, "Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." Here God says that He is the beginning and the end. In Revelation 22:12,13, Jesus (see 22:16) says that He is the beginning and the end: "Behold I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Jesus clearly shows that He is God by saying things about Himself that only God can say about Himself. John 10:30-33 This is another clear passage teaching that Jesus is God: (Christ speaking) "I and the Father are one." Again the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but Jesus said to them: "I have shown you many miracles from the Father, for which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." When studying the original Greek of Jesus' statement "I and the Father are one," the word translated "one" means one in essence, or nature, not merely one in purpose. There are a lot more. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 9:16pm On Aug 10, 2012 |
@OLAADEGBU All I can make sense of in your treatise is that you want to know where almighty God is used to depict the Lord Jesus Christ. where is the answer here? is 'i am' Almighty God? i tire o! and if this is an english language comprehension class,the answer is wrong. let me explain better again, the word 'God Almighty' defines itself,it stands out and unique, also its self explanatory even to a novice without an infussionhty;All-mighty-God shows unequal might or power of one God. and that prove to be so when he said that 'he is a jealous God'.he doesnt share his worship with anybody or image,but through his son,our prayers are channelled. but using your claim below 'i am' is just too weak; I AM was the most revered divine name of God in the Old Testament (Ex. 3:14). Christ was not merely claiming that He existed before Abraham, but that He was still in existence before Abraham. Dr. A.T. Robertson, one of the greatest Greek scholars who ever lived, had this to say about John 8:58 after translating it "I am":common,is 'i am' carrying any serious message? either its typed in uppercase or lowercase and anybody can read millions of meanings to it because of the wide holes that the interpretation accomodates,you have a distinct name,your own dialect name that the true meaning can be read in short form in the same sylables without neccesarily giving openings to millions of interpretation. okay do i make any meaning if i just walk up to a gathering and say 'i am',will i be taking seriously, so if you have a distinct name with embeded meaning,why not God?Gods name revealed who he was, but unfortunately the trinitarians deliberately refuse to use it in order to throw people into confusion; compare these two bible translaions below,and see that 'lord'was used to replace Gods real name; Exodus 6:2-3 New King James Version (NKJV) 2 And God spoke to Moses and said to him: “I am the Lord. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name Lord [/b]I was not known to them. Exodus 6:2-3 King James Version (KJV) 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord. 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, [b]but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. How can God said 'i am the lord' but by my name 'lord' i was not known.of course lord can be used for even humans,i.e court judges,or a woman may tell her husband..my lord. but God Almighty stands out from lord,or 'i am' which God did not share with anybody. Others are: A number of persons are represented by the Angel as speaking in this chapter,dont muddle things up here pls, vs 8-9,the angel spoke to john,verse 16 applies to jesus. first part of 17 is credited to 'the spirit and the bride,and the one speaking in vs 20 is john himself,while vs 12-15 apply to God himself. Dont get confused by the expression in your quote above "And, behold, I come quickly;it does not mean that it was jesus that was speaking,inasmuch as God also speak of himself concerning the judgement day by also using same expression in 1saih 26:21 below,, Isaiah 26:21 New International Version (NIV) 21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; and also to distinguish God from his son,God actually reffered to his son to be the one coming to carryout his own order,see below; Malachi 3:1 3 “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. Then the Lord you are seeking will suddenly come to his Temple. The messenger of the covenant, whom you look for so eagerly, is surely coming,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. you make me laugh here below, who told you that jesus was the one on the throne, Revelation 21:5-7 reads: REV 5:7 and psalm 110:4 shows that jesus 'the lamb' was not the same as the one on the throne but 'the one on the right hand' of the throne. "Behold I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."jesus cannot show that he is God,but God himself declared below who is coming as his messanger,jesus also described in verse 2 here as 'he'; Malachi 3:1-6 New King James Version (NKJV) The Coming Messenger 3 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts. 2 “But who can endure the day of[b] His coming?[/b] And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire And like launderers’ soap. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 6:51pm On Aug 11, 2012 |
@OLAADEGBU im happy that you quoted this bible verse below to affirm your point; John 10:30-33 This is another clear passage teaching that Jesus is God: (Christ speaking) There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up “one God.” The phrase was a common one,the same greek translstion used for paul and apollos,a neuter form,but can you deny the fact that jesus did not say ''i and my father are one person?''and that wisdom demands that since the word 'one' was an open word and two persons that are reffered to 'we' are not in the 'neuter' sense since it did not specifically say 'i and my father are one person' ,then we have to verify other options, for example,in the same book of john; john 17:21 ''That [size=18pt]they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us[/size]: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me''. why not consider the verse above to add to the trinity? and refusal to do so is called 'cherrypicking'. Even today if someone say 'i and my father are one', people would know exactly what he meant—he and his father are very much alike. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, [size=14pt]“he who plants and he who waters are one” [/size](1 Cor. 3:8 – KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.” Christ uses the concept of “being one” in other places, and from them one can see that “one purpose” is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children “one.” In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be “one” as he and God were “one.” We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or “substance” just as he and his Father were one being or “substance.” We believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose. The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the “sheep,” the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father’s hand. Then he said that he and the Father were “one,” i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep. and lastly,see some strong verses that destroyed any of your affirmation to seperate persons in God. if jesus is God himself,why would jesus not share same knowledge with God here; [size=14pt]Mathew 24:36; "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.[/size] or why is jesus saying this to himself; Matthew 27:46 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[a] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”) you knew that you trinitarians have lost this argument,but lets go now!!! |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Ubenedictus(m): 7:51pm On Aug 11, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @OLAADEGBUthe trinitarians never said the father and Jesus are one person, they said father and son are one in nature. U are arguing a case that wasnt made, a worthless arguement. for example,in the same book of john;well i believe christians have dsame spirit d fada and son has d same nature. I cant find any arguement. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, [size=14pt]“he who plants and he who waters are one” [/size](1 Cor. 3:8 – KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement inu didnt see d context in case u didnt notice most theologian after reading in context says 'd one who plantd and one wu watad are equal'. I dont really see ur arguement, in the context equal goes John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.”he and d father has more than one purpose, they have one nature, the father is God and so is d son. Christ uses the concept of “being one” in other places, and from them one can see that “one purpose” is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children “one.” In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be “one” as he and God were “one.” We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or “substance” just as he and his Father were one being or “substance.”at least all christians are one in faith, one body in christ and one spirit not just one purpose. So dont give me d purpose crap. We believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose.no friend not just purpose, but spirit and faith and since God got no body to be one in, im sure he is one in nature. The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the “sheep,” the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father’s hand. Then he said that he and the Father were “one,” i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep.that only proves that Jesus was a man you knew that you trinitarians have lost this argument,but lets go now!!!actually i didnt see the any good point. Peace |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 11:02pm On Aug 11, 2012 |
@ubenedictus Mathew 24:36; so being a human makes jesus not to share the same knowledge of 'the day and hour?' please explain it well,dont just breeze through it like that, explain why jesus in humans form would know that he is one with God but would not share same knowledge. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 11:52pm On Aug 11, 2012 |
@ubenedictus the trinitarians never said the father and Jesus are one person, they said father and son are one in nature. U are arguing a case that wasnt made, a worthless arguement. If you are following the tread,you wouldn'nt have made this mistake, It was OLAADEGBU that quoted john 10:30; 'i and the father are one' to support his point that jesus is same as God, so the verse does not say one in nature, neither does it says one persons, this is not a case of someone making a case on my side,but that the choice of bible verse does not affirm jesus to be God since 'one' can mean anything since it is not used alongside any qualifier.
i dont expect you to have any argument,first it wasnt directed at you,and secondly john 17:21 was meant to be read alongside john10:30, that is,if john 10:30 which says 'i and the father are one' could mean that jesus is God himself,or let me put it to your own understanding,does the 'one' as used in john 10:30 mean 'one nature'? and if yes,since the one used there is the same in translation with the 'one'used in john17:21, john 17:21 says ''That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me''. then all christians are God or equal with God bsaed on john 17:21 above,the same way the so called the son and the holy spirit are claimed to be equal with God,isn'nt it? he and d father has more than one purpose, they have one nature, the father is God and so is d son.im dying here with laughter,there can only be one purpose at a particular time in a particular context,so if jesus is saying that himself and the father are one in a particular matter here,pls dont muddle it up,there can be different purpose at a time,but one must be agreed upon after one another,so, show us where the bible say clearly that the father God and the son jesus christ have the same nature,quote it out pls. actually i didnt see the any good point. you are not expected to see any,but rather to make good points so that we can debate it,many of trinitarians could not sustain the heat,so we are waiting for yours,oya now! |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 12:00am On Aug 12, 2012 |
show us where the bible say clearly that the father God and the son jesus christ have the same nature,quote it out pls. im not talking of 'same image' because humans too are said to be created in Gods image,but same in everything such that no one is greater than another |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Nobody: 7:25am On Aug 12, 2012 |
Didn't know this discussion was still running :O More grace to you, Bro Olaadegbu. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Ubenedictus(m): 1:43am On Aug 13, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @ubenedictusJesus was both God and man, as God d whole universe couldnt contain him, as man he was in a specific place on earth. As God he possesed infinite knowledge, d human mind can only contain limited knowledge, so unless his humanity is informed by his divinity he truly didnt know d date d world would end. So yes dear friend God never wanted humans to know d date of d end and thus that knowledge was kept from humanity. Peace |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 11:05pm On Aug 13, 2012 |
@ubenedictus pls read your post loudly here; so unless his humanity is informed by his divinity [b]he (jesus)[/b]truly didnt know d date d world would end. So yes dear friend God never wanted humans to know d date of d end and thus that knowledge was kept from humanity. bros, i rest my case, accept defeat!!! |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 12:12am On Aug 14, 2012 |
@Ubenedictus and if you dont accept defeat here in the sense that what you wrote below were mere formulations; unless his humanity is informed by his divinity he (jesus)truly didnt know d date d world would end can you quote a bible verse to back it that ''unless his humanity is informed by his divinity''. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Nobody: 12:16am On Aug 14, 2012 |
common guys, you know the end of this discussion will be no agreement, what's the point  |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 12:51am On Aug 14, 2012 |
common guys, you know the end of this discussion will be no agreement, what's the pointat least the grain will be separated from the chaff!! |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by ijawkid(m): 7:43am On Aug 14, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus Just 1 scripture will do o...... Even as lucid as Jesus's words are trinitarians still find a way out.... Jesus say ""I NO KNOW WHEN THE END GO COME"", trinitarians say NO,he knew but he forgot the day or chose to lie because he was human.....but the same trinitarians say he was GOD incarnate,fully GOD fully MAN.... Did Jesus suffer from memory loss?? Was he suffering from multiple personality disorder?? Definition of multiple personality disorder (Dissociative identity disorder (DID), also known as multiple personality disorder,[1] is a mental disorder characterized by at least two distinct and relatively enduring identities or dissociated personality states that alternately control a person's behavior, and is accompanied by memory impairment for important information not explained by ordinary forgetfulness.) Ok how did Jesus know that the angels in heaven didn't know but only the Father?? How?? If Jesus did forget his GODhood memory in d heavens how did he remember that only 1 person in d whole universe knew when d world would end?? This is the reason why all the reveleations Jesus gave to john in the book of revelations was given to him by his Father because truthfully even Jesus doesn't know when the world would end.......... .revelation 1:1 is clear on that........ Revelation 1:1 New American Standard Bible (NASB) The Revelation of Jesus Christ 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and [a]communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, ...... I don tire for this argument ooooooooo...... |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by ijawkid(m): 7:44am On Aug 14, 2012 |
frosbel: common guys, you know the end of this discussion will be no agreement, what's the point U started the post and u must end it......lol.... Oya frosbel come officially close this post.....hahahahahahahahahaha |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by ijawkid(m): 8:03am On Aug 14, 2012 |
Ubenedictus: Jesus was both God and man, as God d whole universe could contain him, as man he was in a specific place on earth. As God he possesed infinite knowledge, d human mind can only contain limited knowledge, so unless his humanity is informed by his divinity he truly didnt know d date d world would end. So yes dear friend God never wanted humans to know d date of d end and thus that knowledge was kept from humanity. This explanation I could say is one of the most lame explanations trinitarians have ever given to back up there claims ...... Even Jesus will be shaking his head to this explanation in heaven.....its so lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But u were the one who said even as @ when Jesus was 2years old he was fully GOD.... Now ur giving us a lame reason why his knowledge on when the world wuld end diminished or dwindled drastically even after being annointed by the holy spirit @ age 30....... My brother it doesn't make any sense..... It doesn't make 1 sense,,,,,,,,,........... Jesus didn't know the date because he did not know......Jesus was telling the truth....... |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by truthislight: 8:11am On Aug 14, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus this argument is over, anyone that reads this thread will know if trinity is a bible teaching or not. In the worship of God CAN one just formulate whatever he wants? No. All those that have the fear of God knows what to do. Peace |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Ubenedictus(m): 11:35am On Aug 14, 2012 |
ijawkid:d fact that u have closed ur minds to it, doesnt make it lame. Even Jesus will be shaking his head to this explanation in heaven.....its so lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i would say dsame to ur idea that Jesus is an angel. But u were the one who said even as @ when Jesus was 2years old he was fully GOD....ofcourse, and yet only once while alive did is divinity transfigure his humanity. Because his glory as God could only b reveal when his humanity is informed by his divinity Now ur giving us a lame reason why his knowledge on when the world wuld end diminished or dwindled drastically even after being annointed by the holy spirit @ age 30.......sorry friend, u want to put words in my mouth, i didnt say it 'dwindled' i said that knowledge wasnt available to his human mind. My brother it doesn't make any sense.....it doesnt make sense to u. It doesn't make 1 sense,,,,,,,,,...........he didnt know becos that knowledge isnt in his human mind. Unless u cant undastand english. Peace |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Ubenedictus(m): 11:45am On Aug 14, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictusso u need a bible verse to inform u that divine knowledge is infinite? Do u also need a bible verse to inform u that ur human mind is finite? You really want to play the dull boy uh? And u also nid a verse to inform u that d divine infinite knowledge cannot fit into a finite mind right? Yeah if u nid a bible passage to inform u of that then i really dont see a reason for this discussion, because for d first time in my life i meet a xtian wu doesnt know that God is infinite in knowledge. Peace |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 6:50pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
@Ubenedictus bros, in a contest, there must be a winner,and a looser, a winner will not neccesarily always win while the looser will not always loose but will always win at times too, but only in africa we dont accept defeat easily until it drags one into the mud,thereby making recovery more difficult. The discussion lately was between myself and bro OLAADEGBU, maybe he could not sustain it or whatever,by not replying my demanding posts consecutively, you joined yourself to the issue perfectly,and i was expecting your well analysed bible quotes to defend and counter defend points until we get to a point where 'the chaff would have been all removed so as to remain only grains'. you should know by now that if any gospel does not or cannot be reconcilled with the main ideas available in all the verses contained in the sacred scriptures also know as the bible,then it is to be rejected and abandoned in whole,irrespective of who pronounced such gospel;maybe pastor,bishop,pope even an angel,...we are to reject it; Galatians 1:8-9 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. we received Gods words through (holy writtings), and not based on an individual opinions (verbal) more so, the scripture has already been completed so addition and no subtraction the according to book of revelation. again,we are to test all spirits wheather they are of God,or originate from God or from false prophet who misinterprete Gods word; 1 John 4:1-6 New King James Version (NKJV) 4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. so you can understand what i mean now that you should back up your last claim here which you term 'divinity informing humanity' you need to expecially highlight with scriptures someone whose divinity status could not communicate with his humanity status, so that we can be very sure that the concept or the assertion is from the bible and also a sound and acceptable bible teaching that has passed the test expected of it, so it is not a fight,...just look at it this way; in an English language comprehension test,you are given a paragraph to deliberate on,and answers must be drawn from the supplied paragraph and not outside it, any answer outside the paragraph supplied or outside the boundary will not be entertained,so also is our debate, the bible is our 'constitution' here and any notion formulated outside the bible standard that cannot be backed by the bible is unacceptable,it may be hard,but that is just thetruth, this is to safeguard true christians from false teachings. your post below is going ridiculous,as it is evident here that your sustaining the argument is without any substance,how can you prove what you said below; sorry friend, u want to put words in my mouth, i didnt say it 'dwindled' i said that knowledge wasnt available to his human mind. failure to quote just one bible verse to back up [b[size=18pt]]''why knowledge was'nt available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human is contradictory''[/size][/b] and further cross examinations will expose you to something that i wouldnt like,its laughable anyway,but if you read my discussion with olaadegbu very well i even went extra mile into hebrew/greek translations used then to translate the old and new testaments respectively to draw out meanings used in a particular context and which he did not or have not yet argued. so my brother we agree to disagree or disagree to agree, we are friends,you have lost this argument unless you supply the bible verse to back up your claim above,thanks and God bless you in all your ways. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 6:54pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
so u need a bible verse to inform u that divine knowledge is infinite?so prove to me all these above in the bible,thats the only way we can understand the position of the bible from humans infusions. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Nobody: 7:05pm On Aug 14, 2012 |
My final submission: if you don't believe in the Trinity of God, you do not know the salvation of God. If, like Frosbel, you believe that Jesus is God but that God is not a Trinity, your salvation is fine, but your effectiveness for God is under tremendous limitation. No man can lay claim to the Salvation of God whose salvation is not founded entirely on the revelation that it was God Who became man to set men free from their enmity toward God and bring them into family relationship with Himself. Knock yourself out attacking this position. Edited. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 2:27pm On Aug 15, 2012 |
@ihedinobi nobody is saying that he or she would not believe the trinity,but it has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt,you need to sink overwhelming facts pointing to God and jesus as not the same. My final submission: if you don't believe in the Trinity of God, you do not know the salvation of God. If, like Frosbel, you believe that Jesus is God but that God is not a Trinity, your salvation is fine, but your effectiveness for God is under tremendous limitation. you can only prove,using sound bible quotes,and not what the pope or father is telling you from the youth that sounds real to you but when you finnally test your knowledge,you are disappointed that there is no bible verse to sustain your point. so prove,prove,prove to counter the last claim here from the bible that;[size=18pt]''why knowledge was'nt available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate''[/size] simple and i will believe you, waiting pls |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Ubenedictus(m): 3:57pm On Aug 15, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Ubenedictus(m): 4:09pm On Aug 15, 2012 |
Dear barristers if i have a list of people who suprise me d most, i would be your name would be among the 1st 10, you claim victory even before d end of a contest, and u even claim victory as though u were in a debate with judges. As it seems you are more inclined to the winner-loser mentality i would love a debate. BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictuswell dear friend it seems u didnt even start the discussion from the bgining becos if u did u would have seen my posts the bgining and not insinuate that 'i joined myself to the issue' you should know by now that if any gospel does not or cannot be reconcilled with the main ideas available in all the verses contained in the sacred scriptures also know as the bible,then it is to be rejected and abandoned in whole,irrespective of who pronounced such gospel;maybe pastor,bishop,pope even an angel,...we are to reject it;i think you should repeat that advise to urself, u are the person assert that ' the fullness of d divinity didnt rest of christ bodily' when my bible clearly states otherwise failure to quote just one bible verse to back up [b[size=18pt]]''why knowledge was'nt available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human is contradictory''[/size][/b] and further cross examinations will expose you to something that i wouldnt like,its laughable anyway,but if you read my discussion with olaadegbu very well i even went extra mile into hebrew/greek translations used then to translate the old and new testaments respectively to draw out meanings used in a particular context and which he did not or have not yet argued.u may want to repaste it, i would love to see it so my brother we agree to disagree or disagree to agree, we are friends,you have lost this argument unless you supply the bible verse to back up your claim above,thanks and God bless you in all your ways.God bless you too, anytime i see you i would remember u are the 1st xtian i meet who denies that God's knowledge is infinite. Peace |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Ubenedictus(m): 4:11pm On Aug 15, 2012 |
Dear barristers if i have a list of people who suprise me d most, i would put your name would be among the 1st 10, you claim victory even before d end of a contest, and u even claim victory as though u were in a debate with judges. As it seems you are more inclined to the winner-loser mentality i would love a debate. BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictuswell dear friend it seems u didnt even start the discussion from the bgining becos if u did u would have seen my posts the bgining and not insinuate that 'i joined myself to the issue' you should know by now that if any gospel does not or cannot be reconcilled with the main ideas available in all the verses contained in the sacred scriptures also know as the bible,then it is to be rejected and abandoned in whole,irrespective of who pronounced such gospel;maybe pastor,bishop,pope even an angel,...we are to reject it;i think you should repeat that advise to urself, u are the person assert that ' the fullness of d divinity didnt rest of christ bodily' when my bible clearly states otherwise failure to quote just one bible verse to back up [b[size=18pt]]''why knowledge was'nt available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human is contradictory''[/size][/b] and further cross examinations will expose you to something that i wouldnt like,its laughable anyway,but if you read my discussion with olaadegbu very well i even went extra mile into hebrew/greek translations used then to translate the old and new testaments respectively to draw out meanings used in a particular context and which he did not or have not yet argued.u may want to repaste it, i would love to see it so my brother we agree to disagree or disagree to agree, we are friends,you have lost this argument unless you supply the bible verse to back up your claim above,thanks and God bless you in all your ways.God bless you too, anytime i see you i would remember u are the 1st xtian i meet who denies that God's knowledge is infinite. Peace |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by truthislight: 5:38pm On Aug 15, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: My final submission: if you don't believe in the Trinity of God, you do not know the salvation of God. If, like Frosbel, you believe that Jesus is God but that God is not a Trinity, your salvation is fine, but your effectiveness for God is under tremendous limitation. broad way leads to dead, narrow gate leads to life. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 11:32pm On Aug 15, 2012 |
@ihedinobi well dear friend it seems u didnt even start the discussion from the bgining becos if u did u would have seen my posts the bgining and not insinuate that 'i joined myself to the issue' i hate to use some words expecially when i have tried to give someone some respect, but how can i help this when you are sounding in this way in above quote, pls hear me again in english language again,you even quoted it without understanding it,see the bolded blue letter below; [size=14pt]The discussion lately was between myself and bro OLAADEGBU[/size], maybe he could not sustain it or whatever,by not replying my demanding posts consecutively, you joined yourself to the issue perfectly, whats the meaning of lately, from online dictionary .lately. adverb recently, of late, just now, in recent times, not long ago, i used the word 'lately' before saying that 'you' joined the conversation between myself and olaadegbu,which also means that using any of the options above shows that im not saying that i started with the tread but that the latest posts on this particular page is where you actually joined yourself with olaadegbu and myself on a particular aspect of the issue concerning jesus saying 'that he and the father are one the same way that he said that christians will be one with him the way he is one with the father God'. so if you dont consider what i said using the word 'lately' well there is nothing that i can do about it. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 11:39pm On Aug 15, 2012 |
@Ubenedictus, ihedinobi should ignore this,i thought it was ihedinobi. so,Ubenedictus, well dear friend it seems u didnt even start the discussion from the bgining becos if u did u would have seen my posts the bgining and not insinuate that 'i joined myself to the issue' i hate to use some words expecially when i have tried to give someone some respect, but how can i help this when you are sounding in this way in above quote, pls hear me again in english language again,you even quoted it without understanding it,see the bolded blue letter below; [size=14pt]The discussion lately was between myself and bro OLAADEGBU[/size], maybe he could not sustain it or whatever,by not replying my demanding posts consecutively, you joined yourself to the issue perfectly, whats the meaning of lately, from online dictionary .lately. adverb recently, of late, just now, in recent times, not long ago, i used the word 'lately' before saying that 'you' joined the conversation between myself and olaadegbu,which also means that using any of the options above shows that im not saying that i started with the tread but that the latest posts on this particular page is where you actually joined yourself with olaadegbu and myself on a particular aspect of the issue concerning jesus saying 'that he and the father are one the same way that he said that christians will be one with him the way he is one with the father God'. so if you dont consider what i said using the word 'lately' well there is nothing that i can do about it. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by BARRISTERS: 11:47pm On Aug 15, 2012 |
@Ubenedictus Dear barristersof couse tthere is victory here isn'nt it? because suddenly there are nomore bibleto quote from,and that signal the end,or you still have any bible verse to quote?then back up the last claim here again,im waiting; ''why knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '' waiting for answer pls. |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Ubenedictus(m): 1:10am On Aug 16, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictus, ihedinobi should ignore this,i thought it was ihedinobi.my bad, i probably read ur post in a haste and didnt take time to get what you meant exactly. I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I probably interpreted the worst from that paragraph, really sorry. Peace |
| Re: We worship one TRUE GOD not a TRINITY - A Provocative discussion by Ubenedictus(m): 1:14am On Aug 16, 2012 |
BARRISTERS: @Ubenedictusif i had a passage that said exactly that it wouldnt even make a difference, i wouldnt even see the need of posting it. If a christian would deny that God has infinite knowledge just so he would feel good about a discussion i wouldnt like to waste time giving him more thing so he could just deny them. Peace |
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