elampiro:


Yes, I even saw the article that said SAF adapted his 4-4-2 formation in the 1990s to 4-4-1-1 and 4-3-3 on Jose Mourinho's arrival to the EPL..


I beg make I sleep. I don tire finish. This argument get demon attached.

Did SAF write the article? Rooney have always played alongside another striker in 4 4 2 formation. Man Utd hardly play 4 4 1 1 formation. The facts are there on whoscored site. They keep records of how each team plays seasons in seasons out.

I can't rely on articles written by some journo when there are site that gathers these facts every season.

AirborneLacer:
All we're asking for is credible representation in elite Europe, nothing else.

Pls tell, how do you guys intend to deliver that with a wasteman like Dante?

Valencia Smalling Dante Rojo?

I thought LVG is a football manager, when did he delve into construction of time bombs?

That Dante rumour is fake! It has got to be the worst lie from the pit of hell!

Since Man Utd want to buy all the wingers in the world, I suggest they also buy Dnipro Konoplyanka! He is very good!

Pawa I thought u said b4 dat Rooney was played in d wing almost his united career ,now na attacking midfield

elampiro:


4-4-1-1

Rooney never on same line with Nistelrooy, Saha, Tevez, Chicha.

Unless you're talking about a 4-4-1-1 formation, which of course, is a simple variation of the 4-4-2.

A 4-4-2 flat has got nothing like a hole in it.

A hole can only be created when one of the strikers drops deep to create a link between the midfield and attack, in that case, you wouldn't say it's a 4-4-2 anymore.

Danhumprey:
That Dante rumour is fake! It has got to be the worst lie from the pit of hell!

It better be.

Joseph Yobo in his current state is way better than that slowpoke

AirborneLacer:


Unless you're talking about a 4-4-1-1 formation, which of course, is a simple variation of the 4-4-2.

A 4-4-2 flat has got nothing like a hole in it.

A hole can only be created when one of the strikers drops deep to create a link between the midfield and attack, in that case, you wouldn't say it's a 4-4-2 anymore.

Exactly. Rooney behind a striker or another striker is not 4-4-2 flat. It's 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1.

parrotibaba:
Pawa I thought u said b4 dat Rooney was played in d wing almost his united career ,now na attacking midfield

When did I say this? I said he played in the number 10 behind a striker. His first season he was used in the wing moslty.

After his first season he played off Nistelrooy, Saha, Tevez, Chicha, Welbeck in the hole, predominantly, but occasionally in the wing, striking top 9 and central midfield.



My name is not pawa. Note that.

tess1:


Did SAF write the article? Rooney have always played alongside another striker in 4 4 2 formation. Man Utd hardly play 4 4 1 1 formation. The facts are there on whoscored site. They keep records of how each team plays seasons in seasons out.

I can't rely on articles written by some journo when there are site that gathers these facts every season.

I have told you what SAF and Rooney said verbatim, but you chose to believe your imagination. I have actually been avoiding bringing articles written by pundits, I stuck with what the coach and players said. Even you agreed at least to a supposrt striker which is still number 10 in association football.

Now I even have seen an article written by ANDY COLE. He says Ferguson switched his system from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 in 2001. He said the idea was to make United have more possession and create more chances for the lone striker.

elampiro:


When did I say this? I said he played in the number 10 behind a striker. His first season he was used in the wing moslty.

After his first season he played off Nistelrooy, Saha, Tevez, Chicha, Welbeck in the hole, predominantly, but occasionally in the wing, striking top 9 and central midfield.



My name is not pawa. Note that.

@elampiro were u not d guy dat said dis...

This was the reason for Nistelrooy. To switch the sytem from 2 strikers to 1.

elampiro:
This was the reason for Nistelrooy. To switch the sytem from 2 strikers to 1.

I added another screenshot ,and please u never said dis when we were arguing dat time ,I remember telling u dat Rooney was used mainly as an ss n was rarely played on d wings

parrotibaba:
@elampiro were u not d guy dat said dis...

I guess you missed the build up.

I said he played mostly as a winger in his first season. Also when SAF deployed the 4-3-3 with Ronaldo and Roonay flanking Tevez in a fluid front used in difficult away games.

parrotibaba:
I added another screenshot ,and please u never said dis when we were arguing dat time ,I remember telling u dat Rooney was used mainly as an ss n was rarely played on d wings

That is a reposne to another person na. U don't follow this argumet with details.

The other article you brought up . I said 'Rooney had a run of games in the wing in 2011'. How is this tantamount to having most games in the wing?

elampiro:


I guess you missed the build up.

I said he played mostly as a winger in his first season. Also when SAF deployed the 4-3-3 with Ronaldo and Roonay flanking Tevez in a fluid front used in difficult away games.

which buildup? u told both me n coogar dat Rooney was a winger for united for many matches dat it was only in 2009/2010 dat he was used as a striker ...no be dis year we argue dis thing?

elampiro:


That is a reposne to another person na. U don't follow this argumet with details.

The other article you brought up . I said 'Rooney had a run of games in the wing in 2011'. How is this tantamount to having most games in the wing?

dat other person is me n we argued at length

parrotibaba:
which buildup? u told both me n coogar dat Rooney was a winger for united for many matches dat it was only in 2009/2010 dat he was used as a striker ...no be dis year we argue dis thing?

This is true. Rooney was a winger for United in many matches. In fluid three of Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez. In run of games in 2011. Even in 2012/13 like he played in Madrid, in a certain game in 2012/2013 he played in the wing and won MOTM with two only goals. This season he played in right wing in the return leg against Cambridge. His first season he was marjorly in the wing.

In UCL fixture in Rome he was in the wing and CRZ in the top 9.

This is like saying Valencia is a winger but he has had many games in right back. Or Fabregas is a C.midieder but he has had many games as a striker and number 10.




However, that post I mentiond Andy Cole and Nistelrooy you responded to was not for you.

elampiro:


Here they were talking about Rooney playing in central midfield, not in the hole.

so when did rooney play in the central midfield in 2012/13? we had anderson, cleverley, kagawa, giggs, carrick, fletcher, jones, scholes, etc in the central midfield.

your inconsistency in your argument is shocking

coogar:


so when did rooney play in the central midfield in 2012/13? we had anderson, cleverley, kagawa, giggs, carrick, fletcher, jones, scholes, etc in the central midfield.

your inconsistency in your argument is shocking

Yes. He played against Stoke, West Ham, Villa and others in the wing while Kagawa took more advanced role.

In the last 2 UCL seasons he's the most productive(goals+assist) player (behind ronaldo and messi), in the last 3 la liga seasons he's the 3rd best goal provider (behind messi and koke), he has scored all the current la liga teams (only messi nd ronaldo hav done dat) he has scored 20+ goals in 5 consecutive seasons and he's not even the team's point man. Coogar nd co... Abeg make una bring me stats wey make Karim mostafa Benzema "USELESS"

elampiro:


Yes. He played against Stoke, West Ham, Villa and others in the wing while Kagawa took more advanced role.

so central midfield is now the wing?

elampiro:


This is true. Rooney was a winger for United in many matches. In fluid three of Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez. In run of games in 2011. Even in 2012/13 like he played in Madrid, in a certain game in 2012/2013 he played in the wing and won MOTM with two only goals. This season he played in right wing in the return leg against Cambridge. His first season he was marjorly in the wing.

In UCL fixture in Rome he was in the wing and CRZ in the top 9.

This is like saying Valencia is a winger but he has had many games in right back. Or Fabregas is a C.midieder but he has had many games as a striker and number 10.




However, that post I mentiond Andy Cole and Nistelrooy you responded to was not for you.

ur problem is ur lack of accepting ur mistakes ,if I didn't bring dis screenshots as evidence u would hv vehemently denied dat u never said anything like dat ... here u r arguing dat Rooney played in d hole for united except d 2009/2010 season ,by den u said he was a winger for united for much of his career at united with d 2009/2010 season an exception ...


Now u r using Valencia as an excuse ,were u not d one dat was mentioning d various years Rooney was a winger at united with d support of d various articles u sprouted out during d course of d argument ... u goofed up big time

elampiro:


I have told you what SAF and Rooney said verbatim, but you chose to believe your imagination. I have actually been avoiding bringing articles written by pundits, I stuck with what the coach and players said. Even you agreed at least to a supposrt striker which is still number 10 in association football.

Now I even have seen an article written by ANDY COLE. He says Ferguson switched his system from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 in 2001. He said the idea was to make United have more possession and create more chances for the lone striker.

You are the one imagining. There are facts to support what i've said. You don't expect me to believe what pundits said over the facts that are on ground.

What SAF said doesn't mean that he played Rooney behind the striker all the time. He would have said that about Jones if any issue came up about defensive midfield or right back.

Rooney wanted to leave Man Utd because he was being used as a number 10 in SAF's last season. He said he wanted to play in the center forward position.

Those are the facts from whoscored. I deliberately omitted that of 2009/2010 because you already accepted that he was our top striker then. In 2010/11 4411 formation was used four times, 2011/12 two times, 2012/2013 three times.

You will also see that in SAF's last season, he changed the formation totally and adopted 4231 where Rooney played as a number 10 mostly in that season and that was the reason he said he wanted to leave.

This is my last response on this issue.

parrotibaba:
ur problem is ur lack of accepting ur mistakes ,if I didn't bring dis screenshots as evidence u would hv vehemently denied dat u never said anything like dat ... here u r arguing dat Rooney played in d hole for united except d 2009/2010 season ,by den u said he was a winger for united for much of his career at united with d 2009/2010 season an exception ...


Now u r using Valencia as an excuse ,were u not d one dat was mentioning d various years he was a winger at united with d support of d various articles u sprouted out during d course of d argument ... u goofed up big time

you don't seem to know elampawa......
he has to somehow justify rooney's poor performance as a striker so he brings up ridiculous excuses as the reasons rooney isn't prolific. however, people who watch united know rooney's problem has little to do with the position he takes, he's just a very poor footballer.

do you know how many goals herrera has scored for us this year in spite of his limited appearances? when rooney played in herrera's position, he was firing blanks. do you know how many goals mata has scored from his wide position for us? when rooney found himself in same position, he produced next to nothing.

weedtaker:
In the last 2 UCL seasons he's the most productive(goals+assist) player (behind ronaldo and messi), in the last 3 la liga seasons he's the 3rd best goal provider (behind messi and koke), he has scored all the current la liga teams (only messi nd ronaldo hav done dat) he has scored 20+ goals in 5 consecutive seasons and he's not even the team's point man. Coogar nd co... Abeg make una bring me stats wey make Karim mostafa Benzema "USELESS"

has benzema ever won the pichichi?
how can you rate a striker that has never scored 22 league goals in one season in spain? this is the same madrid side that scored more than 100+ league goals when jose was there. abeg, benzema is useless. with the quality in the team he plays for, he should be averaging 30 league goals per season.

tess1:


You are the one imagining. There are facts to support what i've said. You don't expect me to believe what pundits said over the facts that are on ground.

What SAF said doesn't mean that he played Rooney behind the striker all the time. He would have said that about Jones if any issue came up about defensive midfield or right back.

Rooney wanted to leave Man Utd because he was being used as a number 10 in SAF's last season. He said he wanted to play in the center forward position.

Those are the facts from whoscored. I deliberately omitted that of 2009/2010 because you already accepted that he was our top striker then. In 2010/11 4411 formation was used four times, 2011/12 two times, 2012/2013 three times.

You will also see that in SAF's last season, he changed the formation totally and adopted 4231 where Rooney played as a number 10 mostly in that season and that was the reason he said he wanted to leave.

This is my last response on this issue.

Now I know where your problem is coming from- whoscored.

We had this argument before in January 2013 and I showed you from Zonal marking post match analysis that Rooney and Chacharito were splited apart. Rooney was behind Chicharito. Chicharito had about 14 matches cummlatively susing 90 mins to divide total time played.
I also showed you about Welbeck.

Now we had SAF and Rooney confirming Rooney played BEHIND THE STRIKER.

coogar:


you don't seem to know elampawa......
he has to somehow justify rooney's poor performance as a striker so he brings up ridiculous excuses as the reasons rooney isn't prolific. however, people who watch united know rooney's problem has little to do with the position he takes, he's just a very poor footballer.

do you know how many goals herrera has scored for us this year in spite of his limited appearances? when rooney played in herrera's position, he was firing blanks. do you know how many goals mata has scored from his wide position for us? when rooney found himself in same position, he produced next to nothing.
.

Where did Rooney scored from against Liverpool in our 3-0 win. Rooney scored 12 league gials, are you saying all were from the number 9 and 10?

elampiro:

Now I know where your problem is coming from- whoscored.

We had this argument before in January 2013 and I showed you from Zonal marking post match analysis that Rooney and Chacharito were splited apart. Rooney was behind Chicharito. Chicharito had about 14 matches cummlatively susing 90 mins to divide total time played.
I also showed you about Welbeck.

Now we had SAF and Rooney confirming Rooney played BEHIND THE STRIKER.

rooney played behind the striker but it was rooney that recorded 4.6 shots per game to chicharito's 1.7 shots per game.

rooney took 14 shots in the 6-yard box, 59 shots in the penalty area & 84 shots from outside the box in 11/12 season.

on top of it all, rooney had only 4 league assists to show for that season and you are lying to us rooney played in the hole.

elampiro:

Where did Rooney scored from against Liverpool in our 3-0 win. Rooney scored 12 league gials, are you saying all were from the number 9 and 10?

you are only buttressing my point.....
the fact that rooney wasn't played as the lead striker in some games does not diminish his scoring ability.

it doesn't mean if he gets a chance in the box, he would miss. football is fluid....smalling scored 4 league goals this season, is he a striker?

you would find out that in all those games rooney dropped deep under SAF, he still had chances to put the ball in the net but he missed.

he missed because he's a poor footballer not because of his starting position. a world class player would get goals no matter where he finds himself.

elampiro:
... In the last season and a half, Wayne Rooney has made the deep-lying forward position his own. Sir Alex Ferguson has made the 4-4-1-1 his dominate formation. Wayne Rooney plays as the deep-lying forward, with Javier Hernandez or Danny Welbeck working in front of him. This allows Rooney to drop deep into midfield, and spread the ball out to the striker and wingers in front of him, while also remaining an extremely dangerous scoring threat himself. He’s able to be both a creator, and scorer. Rooney plays a ‘Number 10′ extremely well. He is good with the ball at his feet, and he’s able to play quality short passes. In addition, he has a great tactical sense to pick out the right pass to create openings for others. The only problem is, his goal scoring abilities go to waste as a straight ‘Number 10′. In addition, he’s equally skilled as a ‘Number 9′. He’s got a lethal shot, and the strength and agility to work against defenders in the box. But, again, the problem is that his creative abilities go to waste as a straight ‘Number 9′.
http://redrants.com/the-tactics-board-nine-and-a-half/#sthash.3ImCGDNX.dpbs
..............................

The above tactics article was written on July 13th 2012 after the 2011/12 season ended. Everything was still fresh in the memory of the writer. He said everything I have already clarified here. Rooney passed to the wingers to cross in. That's why their creative stats were boosted.

I have also shown here before that Rooney scored most goals from outside the box in the EPL. He also scored far more goals from outside the box that season than RVP- whom played ghe number 9 for his team.

I have shown Rooney had many passes, long and short from the deep. Sometimes more than a CM and defenders.

What more can I say? This should bury the argument for ever.

Throwback (Thursday) lol

Now we have seen Andy Cole said SAF changed his formation from 442 to 451 in 2001.
We saw Rooney in 2008 said he had always played behinf the striker.
We saw SAF in 2011 summer he had always deployed Rooney as number 10- behind the striker in the hole.

The above points to one thing, Rooney has always been an out and out striker in one season- 2009/2010. Yori Yori.

When I am chanced I will bring more from Zonal Marking charts, commentary, etc.

.

coogar:


rooney played behind the striker but it was rooney that recorded 4.6 shots per game to chicharito's 1.7 shots per game.

rooney took 14 shots in the 6-yard box, 59 shots in the penalty area & 84 shots from outside the box in 11/12 season.

on top of it all, rooney had only 4 league assists to show for that season and you are lying to us rooney played in the hole.

Chacharito's figues are low because of his supersub roles. A player who is usually substituted and comes in late like 78th minutes wouldnt take many shots in few minutes played.




On the second part of your posts, you are saying now that his about 187 EPL goals + 94 Assists are a justification of his EPL legendary status. Yori Yori. Nomatter where he has played, he has been productive.

elampiro:

Chacharito's figues are low because of his supersub roles. A player who is usually substituted and comes in late like 78th minutes wouldnt take many shots in few minutes played.

this is untrue....

On the second part of your posts, you are saying now that his about 187 EPL goals + 94 Assists are a justification of his EPL legendary status. Yori Yori. Nomatter where he has played, he has been productive.

i am saying his 187 EPL goals in 13 seasons is a disgrace to him especially when he's been a constant feature in the most dominant team in the land.

coogar:


this is untrue....
.

So you mean Chcihairo who was the top striker, who usualy was isolated up front had 1 shot in 90 minutes?

This sounds true to you?

coogar:


i am saying his 187 EPL goals in 13 seasons is a disgrace to him especially when he's been a constant feature in the most dominant team in the land.

What about his Assists? Rooney kind of football is one who complement with midfield duties, like tracking Michael Essien in our two legged UCL fixtures.

This is why you and I saw Robben differently two years back. You and your apostles said Robben was not worth more than 15 to 20 million and I said he was worth about 40 to over 50 million. You were looking at figures, I was looking at his overall contribution. Same way we saw Hazard differently this last season. You always look at figures alone.

Even thought, Rooney figures Assists+Goals are not bad, they are very good but not excellent. You are entitled to your opinion though and and also allowed to have disciples and apostles in your ministry or school of though. But they never represent the club's opinion or his various managers opinions.