I hear of African bullet proof(Ayeta),shortening distance(kaono ko),punch and fall(aluwo) etc.
Are they real?
Just curious.

are you real if yes, then YES.

Lol,you seen any at work b4?

femmy2010:

Lol,you seen any at work b4?

Femmy, even if he'd seen it, does that transfer the first hand experience to you . In my humble opinion, I will say yes they all exist. However the potency are questionable due to the ritualistic and diabolic conurbation of its existence. This is more of a deep discussion, most especially when it comes to that part of the world where it is patronized.

You need to realize that everything has power in varying amounts. Today, people still die from taking oaths from oracles. So yes, Juju is real.

You need to start off by defining "juju".whats juju to you? cos i think juju is relative.

I believe in African herbs,they are for real.

Various traditions from my place make mention of various classes of juju.

We have traditions which have it that men and women (however way they came about this juju) had in the past, developed the ability of metamorphosis (ehihi), specifically in regards to the edi (black panther) and agu (leopard) animals.

There's also traditions which have it that our warriors, in the past, acquired the ability to appear and reappear, at will (at least, that is how it is described in layman's terms). I have no idea how the ability was acquired, but it is well-attested in our traditions. This juju trait is also a type of ehihi, though not the same type as metamorphosis.

There's also traditions of having "visions" of any sort (owhnu/ohnu). This could be anything from seeing past, present or future events supernaturally to seeing "visions" of a person's mind, even "walking" in someone else's shoes.

It's also said that some can be born "juju-active", but more often than not, juju-activeness is "forced" by those who have a sort of affinity, as dictated by their Chi.

Now, is Juju real? That depends on who you ask. Some claim to have witnessed certain juju activity. I believe that there are different realms of existence, and I believe in the general understanding of the existence of 'supernatural' activity, but in regards to specific 'juju' phenomenon, I cannot say.

femmy2010:

Lol,you seen any at work b4?

OFCOURSE I HAVE! I SWEAR! but i do not call it Juju because it has taken on a derrogatory meaning. i have seen certain supernatural things which only the supernatural can explain. this is one of the reasons which has pushed me to fight for my religion and that of other tribal brothers around the world. i have seen it not only among my people but also among many other peoples. some of it has even scared me to my bones, but then again, that is how the truth works. there is nothing evil about it. it is just the nature of things.

.

.

Just to add to what I wrote earlier. . .

With consideration to what Ify and Chinenye said, there are many cosmic levels of existence. In most Igbo groups, the cosmic hierarchy goes as follows:

Chineke (Osebuluwa/Osalegbue/Chukwu)
Chi (ex: Anyanwu, Amadioha, Kamalu etc.)
Agbara (minor spirits)
Ancestors
Humans

We shouldn't be ignorant about this. Also, what he said about the warriors and etc is also true. In places like Abam, Ohafia, and Abiriba, warriors were given special medicinal herbs that made them impervious to pain, arrows, bullets, and sword thrusts and allowed them to disappear on command. Today, most of these abilities are still there but in the hands of native doctors.

In addition to this, people still transform into animals including dogs, cats, pythons, and owls. Some years ago, a man turned himself into an owl but unfortunately for him, two hunters hit him with catapults as he was flying and he fell down. When he fell, they witnessed him turn back into a human and die.

Also, Osisikankwu's disappearing legacy should still be fresh in some of our minds. . .

It all depends on what "juju" is to you. If African herbs and oracles count as juju to you, then yes it's real.

I GUESS VERY FEW PEOPLE WILL HAVE THE COURAGE OR KNOWLEDGE TO ACTUALLY ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS:
If juju is real and has been used by nigerian people for all manner of things, how come the white man walked all over us - destroying shrines, burning homes, killing men, pillaging our land? How come they crushed our armies, conquered our empires, deposed kings and obas (who were supposed to have strong juju priests around them)
Let's start with logical reasoning before we go to personal experience which may be faulty. How come we were not the ones conquering the white men and they speaking our language? And nobody please talk about 'oyibo juju' please or equate scientific feats like the mobile phone or aeroplanes with 'juju' because that'd be simply too dumb...I have read something like that somewhere.
I have seen a lot of bizarre magic tricks, bizarre indeed - like a showman plucking ideas out of people's minds without them giving any indication, levitating, walking on water, changing water into wine, swallowing swords but they've never claimed the power of the supernatural. These were tricks. I will be investigating myself into juju some more but I wonder, logically, how come our juju never worked when we needed it. Re: Things Fall Apart - where was Agbala, Idemili, Amadioha, Ojukwu when the white man came and forced their people to a new religion? I'd like someone to answer that please.

comnsense: I GUESS VERY FEW PEOPLE WILL HAVE THE COURAGE OR KNOWLEDGE TO ACTUALLY ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS:
If juju is real and has been used by nigerian people for all manner of things, how come the white man walked all over us - destroying shrines, burning homes, killing men, pillaging our land? How come they crushed our armies, conquered our empires, deposed kings and obas (who were supposed to have strong juju priests around them)
Let's start with logical reasoning before we go to personal experience which may be faulty. How come we were not the ones conquering the white men and they speaking our language? And nobody please talk about 'oyibo juju' please or equate scientific feats like the mobile phone or aeroplanes with 'juju' because that'd be simply too dumb...I have read something like that somewhere.
I have seen a lot of bizarre magic tricks, bizarre indeed - like a showman plucking ideas out of people's minds without them giving any indication, levitating, walking on water, changing water into wine, swallowing swords but they've never claimed the power of the supernatural. These were tricks. I will be investigating myself into juju some more but I wonder, logically, how come our juju never worked when we needed it. Re: Things Fall Apart - where was Agbala, Idemili, Amadioha, Ojukwu when the white man came and forced their people to a new religion? I'd like someone to answer that please.

this is a very fickle reply to which i have explained before. The Gods do not dance to the petty commands and desires of humans. They only provide the push and influence our acts. It is upto us humans to decided our course. The Gods only help those who help themselves. It seems we people had our own internal conflicts and betrayals to cope with. we just didnt try hard and we watched and laughed when other people were carried away. when it was our turn to board the slave ship, it was too late to act. Our traditional religions recognise both the good and bad sides of nature in equal measure. just remember that.

PAGAN 9JA:


this is a very fickle reply to which i have explained before. The Gods do not dance to the petty commands and desires of humans. They only provide the push and influence our acts. It is upto us humans to decided our course. The Gods only help those who help themselves. It seems we people had our own internal conflicts and betrayals to cope with. we just didnt try hard and we watched and laughed when other people were carried away. when it was our turn to board the slave ship, it was too late to act. Our traditional religions recognise both the good and bad sides of nature in equal measure. just remember that.

Thanks for replying to my post. However, where do you get this info on the gods? Did they reveal this to you? I was asking why all the claims about juju failed against the white man and thus looked false and you tell me about how the gods act - which is itself another claim for which you have no proof or evidence. This way, the gods stay defended whatsoever happens. And saying that the gods do not dance to the petty commands of humans runs entirely contrary to what juju is seen to be. Juju is basically seen as using the gods to act and effect something in a person's life and circumstance, generally, at will.

Oh and please, I am not talking about the slave trade era. That was a time when Africans sold Africans to the white man.
I am talking about colonisation, the conquest of African kingdoms, the annexation of port cities like Lagos.

comnsense:

Thanks for replying to my post. However, where do you get this info on the gods? Did they reveal this to you? I was asking why all the claims about juju failed against the white man and thus looked false and you tell me about how the gods act - which is itself another claim for which you have no proof or evidence. This way, the gods stay defended whatsoever happens. And saying that the gods do not dance to the petty commands of humans runs entirely contrary to what juju is seen to be. Juju is basically seen as using the gods to act and effect something in a person's life and circumstance, generally, at will.

no there is no relevation. no prophets. to put 2 and 2 together, you must first understand thoroughly both historic events and Traditional Religion. to understand traditional religions, it is impossible to get conclusions just from the religion of 1 particular tribe. so you take an average of all the traditional religions around the World and dfind the basis of their theoretical views. this takes a lot of time spent on studies, which i am currently doing. to make life easier, i have chosen to concentrate more on more developed Pagan Religions such as for example, Ancient Greek Religion, Hinduism, Ifa-Orisha, etc.. and then draw upon less-developed Pagan religions such as Bwiti, my own religion (Mauzawa), ritualistic and religious practices of other tribes around the World, etc.. Now you must first understand that the Pagan form of religion is very complex in that, it does not have a set rwritten book or is fixed idology like monotheitic abrahamic religions. NO. it is ever changing ever growing, ever expanding. it is infinite. you will notice that more advanced Tribes and ethnic culture have a more advanced form of Pagan Religion. however inspite of all that, they are still at te same level as any other small-scale Pagan religion, due to underlying similar basis. According to me, though my interpretation might be wrong, it is all down to balancing the Spiritual forces. the action of Gods/Spiritual Forces has influenced many Worldy events. For example, In the Greek Trojan War, there is a strong referance to Gods whispering tactics and instructions or giving a slight push, (for example a wind to change the course of an arrow, etc.), this might be purely symbolic, but the idea has been conveyed. The Trojan War certainly if taken place must have been influenced thoroughly. Back then Religion, sacrifices, etc., were something taken very seriously, also considering the entire World being Pagan, such incidences more frequent due to stronger forces. Also in the story, you will notice a sincerity which is lacked in todays world and which was lacking even during the days the colonizers set foot, probably because the threat was not immediately realised and acted upon.

now Juju, to be honest with you is a very blanket term. unless you dont tell me which religion, i cant really explain. because i think it just means witchcraft i s'pose. you are again very disillusioned. you cannot "USE" the Gods. you can appease, you can sacrifice, you can make tantrums, you can do what ever you want, but the extent of the human hand stretches only so far.
" authentic and sincere priests however can have more direct role in influencing the Dpiritual World. however this takes years of contact with spirtuality itself.

now Juju, to be honest with you is a very blanket term. unless you dont tell me which religion, i cant really explain. because i think it just means witchcraft i s'pose. you are again very disillusioned. you cannot "USE" the Gods. you can appease, you can sacrifice, you can make tantrums, you can do what ever you want, but the extent of the human hand stretches only so far.
" authentic and sincere priests however can have more direct role in influencing the Dpiritual World. however this takes years of contact with spirtuality itself.

Well this doesn't sound anything like the claims of juju, black magic, otumokpo - whatever you want to call it or however you want to particularise it - that are commonplace in Nigeria such as robbers sweeping with charmed brooms, bullets bouncing off charmed bodies, people being made mad. What you just described sounds quite like any (and equally dubious) mainstream religion where people pray and wait. The juju I've heard of 'promises' results and that's why people flock to the juju priests.

Anyway, I am going to rest my case and say I don't believe it exists. Let me give you proof that God or deities or the supernatural does not exist. This is a short lesson in logic. I hope you can follow me. Logic consists in building undeniable premises from a general one; as long as they all add up, the truth is reached. Eg. Man is mortal - this is a general undeniable premise. I am a man, therefore I am mortal. These two statements add up; if I am a man, I know incontrovertibly that I am mortal. If anyone comes to tell me that they know or have seen an immortal man, I can say confidently that that was either not a man or they got their facts wrong. This is checking facts with logic.
Juju and all religions depend on the existence of the supernatural to be real. If we can logically show that the supernatural cannot exist, then juju and religions are also false. So, lets begin. To be supernatural, it has to be above the material universe, so it has to be immaterial. Matter is anything that has weight and occupies space, so, the immaterial or supernatural has no weight and doesn't occupy space - it is everywhere and nowhere at once. Therefore, it cannot be a multiple; it can only be one since occupying space is what makes matter countable and separate. This bands all claimed supernatural powers into one entity. Now this entity cannot have all the qualities of perfection, omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence as ascribed to God. Proof? Because they are contradictory - to be all knowing, God has to know the future, therefore, he can't change his mind (or the future he first knew would be false), therefore God is not omnipotent and not perfect. God is then limited and cannot have fullness of existence (having no beginning) as one needs limitlessness for that. If God had a beginning, then he may or may not be the cause of matter. So the supernatural as shown earlier is not perfect or the God of christianity. But we've ascertained that the supernatural had a beginning; that beginning had to have been from something else other than the supernatural and certainly not matter that we don't know about. If it is not matter, it is a further immaterial or supernatural entity. But we showed early on that the supernatural can only be one entity - so this fatally contradicts and cancels out the fact that the supernatural had a beginning as equally shown! So, the supernatural cannot exist. If you didn't follow, let me know and I will try to break it down some more. Hear O Nigeria, your God or gods do not exist. Case closed! Anything you experience individually is SIMPLY lacking in explanation at present or the action of your brain (and the mind is a fragile and powerful thing)

comnsense: Well this doesn't sound anything like the claims of juju, black magic, otumokpo - whatever you want to call it or however you want to particularise it - that are commonplace in Nigeria such as robbers sweeping with charmed brooms, bullets bouncing off charmed bodies, people being made mad. What you just described sounds quite like any (and equally dubious) mainstream religion where people pray and wait. The juju I've heard of 'promises' results and that's why people flock to the juju priests.

Anyway, I am going to rest my case and say I don't believe it exists. Let me give you proof that God or deities or the supernatural does not exist. This is a short lesson in logic. I hope you can follow me. Logic consists in building undeniable premises from a general one; as long as they all add up, the truth is reached. Eg. Man is mortal - this is a general undeniable premise. I am a man, therefore I am mortal. These two statements add up; if I am a man, I know incontrovertibly that I am mortal. If anyone comes to tell me that they know or have seen an immortal man, I can say confidently that that was either not a man or they got their facts wrong. This is checking facts with logic.
Juju and all religions depend on the existence of the supernatural to be real. If we can logically show that the supernatural cannot exist, then juju and religions are also false. So, lets begin. To be supernatural, it has to be above the material universe, so it has to be immaterial. Matter is anything that has weight and occupies space, so, the immaterial or supernatural has no weight and doesn't occupy space - it is everywhere and nowhere at once. Therefore, it cannot be a multiple; it can only be one since occupying space is what makes matter countable and separate. This bands all claimed supernatural powers into one entity. Now this entity cannot have all the qualities of perfection, omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence as ascribed to God. Proof? Because they are contradictory - to be all knowing, God has to know the future, therefore, he can't change his mind (or the future he first knew would be false), therefore God is not omnipotent and not perfect. God is then limited and cannot have fullness of existence (having no beginning) as one needs limitlessness for that. If God had a beginning, then he may or may not be the cause of matter. So the supernatural as shown earlier is not perfect or the God of christianity. But we've ascertained that the supernatural had a beginning; that beginning had to have been from something else other than the supernatural and certainly not matter that we don't know about. If it is not matter, it is a further immaterial or supernatural entity. But we showed early on that the supernatural can only be one entity - so this fatally contradicts and cancels out the fact that the supernatural had a beginning as equally shown! So, the supernatural cannot exist. If you didn't follow, let me know and I will try to break it down some more. Hear O Nigeria, your God or gods do not exist. Case closed! Anything you experience individually is SIMPLY lacking in explanation at present or the action of your brain (and the mind is a fragile and powerful thing)

To start with, you must understand that there are a vast variety of frauds out there willing to make a quick buck. you can find some of them advertising here in Nairaland also. you cant make the GODS steal from a bank, for example. you might consult an oracle, or do blood rituals, offerings et.c, to appease the spirits and make peace with them, in order that your task is completed or done as needed. it is like providing a stroke of luck, which is intangible, to your work. this is called, influencing the supernatural, where you concentrate yourself on a particular force. in other terms, it is something similar to prayer, a worldwide accepted concept since the dawn of mankind. however you cant make the Gods/Spirits to directly help with the rain or rob a bank. no they will never directly interfere into worldy affairs because they are from a different realm.

I 100% agree with the above bolded. it is what ive been telling people for years. However in your excitement, you have jumped to quick conclusions, as a result committing flaws. this in reference to the next lines. It is not one entity. Space is infinite, ever growing, ever expanding. The Supernatural forces at the same time are ever growing to fill the material world, i.e., space. In fact, space has been conceived as an ever growing "sphere/circle". there is still considerable research being done on this and more neds to be done. and i agree with this also cnidering that the circle has neither beginning nor end and is most suitable for this purpose. There are many different spiritual forces around us. countless, ever growing. the Spirit is not an expanding gas baloon. NO. it is what i call "infinity", i.e., ever increasing in numbers just like numerical infinity.

Now you have by chance opened up a very interesting topic in your words, i.e., "TIME". now this is an area where extensive research must be done both in the fields of science and religion. In fact, i am currently consulting various Pagan priests and tribal shamans on this area. because Time is somewhere in between the material and spiritual world or maybe all encompassing. because though time is imaterial, it is not a force. In many traditional religious stories, especially those such as hinduism, Ancient Greek religion, etc. , for example, the Gods appear to be scared of time. In fact there is much confucion on time control, in that the Gods are usually helpless to exert influence or control over time.

Time it seems, comes under a separate category. it is this realisation that made me feel that we humans have not really advanced much so far. .

Now as your entire thesis is based on there being a single God, the case is Closed on your part and it must be discarded. it seems brother that you only see with you eyes. you do not realise that it is even possible to "see" with your ears and nose. that is how a blind finds his way on the right path. remember that.

PAGAN 9JA:


To start with, you must understand that there are a vast variety of frauds out there willing to make a quick buck. you can find some of them advertising here in Nairaland also. you cant make the GODS steal from a bank, for example. you might consult an oracle, or do blood rituals, offerings et.c, to appease the spirits and make peace with them, in order that your task is completed or done as needed. it is like providing a stroke of luck, which is intangible, to your work. this is called, influencing the supernatural, where you concentrate yourself on a particular force. in other terms, it is something similar to prayer, a worldwide accepted concept since the dawn of mankind. however you cant make the Gods/Spirits to directly help with the rain or rob a bank. no they will never directly interfere into worldy affairs because they are from a different realm.

I 100% agree with the above bolded. it is what ive been telling people for years. However in your excitement, you have jumped to quick conclusions, as a result committing flaws. this in reference to the next lines. It is not one entity. Space is infinite, ever growing, ever expanding. The Supernatural forces at the same time are ever growing to fill the material world, i.e., space. In fact, space has been conceived as an ever growing "sphere/circle". there is still considerable research being done on this and more neds to be done. and i agree with this also cnidering that the circle has neither beginning nor end and is most suitable for this purpose. There are many different spiritual forces around us. countless, ever growing. the Spirit is not an expanding gas baloon. NO. it is what i call "infinity", i.e., ever increasing in numbers just like numerical infinity.

Now you have by chance opened up a very interesting topic in your words, i.e., "TIME". now this is an area where extensive research must be done both in the fields of science and religion. In fact, i am currently consulting various Pagan priests and tribal shamans on this area. because Time is somewhere in between the material and spiritual world or maybe all encompassing. because though time is imaterial, it is not a force. In many traditional religious stories, especially those such as hinduism, Ancient Greek religion, etc. , for example, the Gods appear to be scared of time. In fact there is much confucion on time control, in that the Gods are usually helpless to exert influence or control over time.

Time it seems, comes under a separate category. it is this realisation that made me feel that we humans have not really advanced much so far. .

Now as your entire thesis is based on there being a single God, the case is Closed on your part and it must be discarded. it seems brother that you only see with you eyes. you do not realise that it is even possible to "see" with your ears and nose. that is how a blind finds his way on the right path. remember that.

Interesting rebuttal. However, when I said 'space' I did not mean the entity or proper noun 'Space' but the common noun for the gap between particular bits of matter. Besides, even though the universe is always expanding, Space is infinite and thus cannot be 'expanding' as you say (I am open to correction on this). All the same, I am intrigued by your take on 'Time' and the ongoing research you are doing on the subject of the supernatural.
Like the scientist I try to be, I am always open to new knowledge and findings.

With regard however, to your reply about the gods not interfering in human matters - how do you explain the claims of juju feats that, as I mentioned, are commonplace like bullet proof charms, or robbers sweeping with charmed brooms or people disappearing. Are these false?
I suppose my point is: if i did all the sacrificing and rituals and petitioning, could/would the gods charm me against bullets, give me a charmed broom to hypnotise robbers, or give me a disappearing charm? I know there are frauds out there but my question is really about the general possibility of these feats being validly part of juju historically and/or now.

comnsense:

Interesting rebuttal. However, when I said 'space' I did not mean the entity or proper noun 'Space' but the common noun for the gap between particular bits of matter. Besides, even though the universe is always expanding, Space is infinite and thus cannot be 'expanding' as you say (I am open to correction on this). All the same, I am intrigued by your take on 'Time' and the ongoing research you are doing on the subject of the supernatural.
Like the scientist I try to be, I am always open to new knowledge and findings.

i meant the very same. the space in gaps of matter, as you mentioned, are already a part of the "ever increasing" space.

comnsense: With regard however, to your reply about the gods not interfering in human matters - how do you explain the claims of juju feats that, as I mentioned, are commonplace like bullet proof charms, or robbers sweeping with charmed brooms or people disappearing. Are these false?
I suppose my point is: if i did all the sacrificing and rituals and petitioning, could/would the gods charm me against bullets, give me a charmed broom to hypnotise robbers, or give me a disappearing charm? I know there are frauds out there but my question is really about the general possibility of these feats being validly part of juju historically and/or now.

to be honest, i very much doubt bullet proof charms or charmed brooms. however at this very young stage, i really cannot tell. there is more research to be done. the point of the matter is, theres has been a detachment from Paganism for nearly 2000 yrs. Vital time that could be used for research has been lost as a result. more religious innovations and pushing the boundaries further has not been able to take place. for example, the Egyptians, the Greeks/Romans and the Indo-Aryans have greatly enhanced religious knowledge. but 2 of these got overthrown unceremoniously. so vital knowledge and the chance to continue from their on has greatly been reduced. The Hindus on the other hand, though facing threats have survived and even to this day are continuing to expand and do religious research and experiment with the occult. there have been millions of treatises comprised already.

so coming back to the point, there is a chance that some do push boundaries further, Spiritual possessions , etc., are possible. i have witnessed some very remarkable ones and they have chilled me to my marrows. but again i very much doubt anything as charmed brooms.
bullet proof charms might work if performed with proper rital. the person might just be so lucky that bullets just pass by and miss him. The forces might be at work to indirectly inflence the course of actions in this case.

Again, we are discussing in general terms. i must know the exact details before i carry on. yet let me say as a reminder: it all depends on ritual, mode & context.

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xbVlx2N3hc

^st.upid video. dont watch it.

comnsense: Thanks for replying to my post. However, where do you get this info on the gods? Did they reveal this to you? I was asking why all the claims about juju failed against the white man and thus looked false and you tell me about how the gods act - which is itself another claim for which you have no proof or evidence. This way, the gods stay defended whatsoever happens. And saying that the gods do not dance to the petty commands of humans runs entirely contrary to what juju is seen to be. Juju is basically seen as using the gods to act and effect something in a person's life and circumstance, generally, at will.

Comnsense, going through your post on NL, your views on what is supposedly meant by JUJU are just regurgitations ruminated through a western way of thinking, do your researches and you will understand why JUJU wasn't used against the colonialists and you need to know that Juju and the deities are two different subject.

femmy2010: I hear of African bullet proof(Ayeta),shortening distance(kaono ko),punch and fall(aluwo) etc.
Are they real?
Just curious.

They are real, I have uncles who are practitioners and I know people who have used those things and more. My grandpa attested to using ka ona ko.

I have only just returned from Nigeria; while I was there, I became acquainted with some of the issues that are being debated at the heights of government. One of these issues was the push by Cameron and the US for Nigeria to legalise or support Gay unions. Anyway, this has not been received well by many, if not a majority of the Nigerian people and I had a quite interesting discussion about this with my brother in law. Somewhere in our conversation, he veered into the God/Bible issue which is quite difficult to argue against without bringing in Evolution, so I did. The interesting thing is that - and I have mentioned this in a previous article - evolution is still not properly taught in our schools, if at all. www.thenigeriangod..co.uk