Ilekeh:


Are you smoking. Who and who lectured who?
Dude, You Okay?
Oyinbo Is a Yoruba word.

bigfrancis21:


hahaha. Nobody is claiming 'nko, okay? Semitunde, out of desperation, could make anything up, he doesn't even have proof of what he wrote.

Madam, Oyinbo is a Yoruba pronunciation. Nobody is arguing that, ok. I suggest that you read, re-read and re-re-read the topic of the thread to find out what it is about.

bigfrancis21:


I meant to write IlekehaIdi. The typo has been corrected.

Ilekeh:


Still You have no factual evidence to back your claim other than " I think it is, so it is".
Yoruba words are sweet and immigrants in Yorubaland have always been known to "borrow" them. Changing Oyinbo to Oyibo is an example.

As we live in a country where nature is prodigal of her favours, our
wants are few and easily supplied; of course we have few manufactures.
They consist for the most part of calicoes, earthern ware, ornaments,
and instruments of war and husbandry. But these make no part of our
commerce, the principal articles of which, as I have observed, are
provisions. In such a state money is of little use; however we have
some small pieces of coin, if I may call them such. They are made
something like an anchor; but I do not remember either their value or
denomination. We have also markets, at which I have been frequently
with my mother. These are sometimes visited by stout mahogany-coloured
men from the south west of us: we call them Oyeeboe, which term
signifies red men living at a distance. They generally bring us
fire-arms, gunpowder, hats, beads, and dried fish. The last we
esteemed a great rarity, as our waters were only brooks and springs.
These articles they barter with us for odoriferous woods and earth,
and our salt of wood ashes. They always carry slaves through our land;
but the strictest account is exacted of their manner of procuring them
before they are suffered to pass.

pazienza:


Yea,you are right,bekee became the central igbo. You are really versed in igbo things,yea, oyibo appears older,especially that akuoyibo(coconut),it's the same thing even in imo and abia,one would have expected them to call it akubekee.

bigfrancis21:


Proof please?

In case you missed it, read it again:

Olaudah Equiano (17th/18th century)


https://archive.org/stream/theinterestingna15399gut/15399.txt

Ilekeh:


Lmao and how does this prove that the word wasn't stolen from Yorubas?

Dude, try harder.

bigfrancis21:


Your logic makes absolutely no sense without academic evidence, son. You can't sit in your bedroom and type false statements and expect everyone to believe you. Sorry, but whatever so-called civilization Oyo had never crossed the borders of the more mightier Edo kingdom to get to SE. The civilization whatsoever was checkmated by the greater Edo kingdom of the Niger Delta, which is more known worldwide than Oyo.

Why have you failed to furnish any academic exercise, even if it is half-baked to backup your claim? Why is that difficult for you??

bigfrancis21:


Before 'nko' isn't even Igbo to start with but pidgin english. How is that Igbo? In Igbo, we say 'before kwanu'. 'kwanu' is the Igbo word used for 'emphasis'.

I can give you several examples of Yorubas claiming that 'ogbono', 'okro' etc are Yoruba because they grew up hearing those words as part of daily Yoruba lingo. Your sister IlekehIdi is a prime suspect of this who claimed in the past that those words were Yoruba, while fogetting 'ila', 'apon' etc. until she got lectured on those words.

bigfrancis21:


One by one, all of you have utterly failed to back up your claim with any tangible evidence so far.

Ilekeh:


You as well. I'm beginning to think igbo's "Ola" was coined from Yoruba language.

It's all good. At the end of the day, our language must thrive through us and through others.

semitunde:


That history he quoted is the same one many Igbo deny because it is used as the bases for the claim that igbos came from the Benin/Yoruba axis.

When it suits their conversation, they quote, but when that quote raises another issue, they dump and deny that part of their history.

Ilekeh:


You as well. I'm beginning to think igbo's "Ola" was coined from Yoruba language.

It's all good. At the end of the day, our language must thrive through us and through others.

bigfrancis21:


I'm beginning to think yoruba's Obasanjo (O basa njo = he spreadeth evil), Abeokuta (ebe okwute = stony place), Obanikoro (Oba na ikoro = yam barn and musical gong) were borrowed from Igbo language.

Igbo raiding and terrorizing Ife since 14th century.

bigfrancis21:


I'm beginning to think yoruba's Obasanjo (O basa njo = he spreadeth evil), Abeokuta (ebe okwute = stony place), Obanikoro (Oba na ikoro = yam barn and musical gong) were borrowed from Igbo language.

Igbo raiding and terrorizing Ife since 14th century.

semitunde:


That history he quoted is the same one many Igbo deny because it is used as the bases for the claim that igbos came from the Benin/Yoruba axis.

When it suits their conversation, they quote, but when that quote raises another issue, they dump and deny that part of their history.

semitunde:


You are beginning to do what that Igbo boy i talked about also did.

He said: "can't you see nko sounds Igbo". And he repeatedly said the words to me for emphasis. When I asked for the meaning, he got confused.

To be fair , some Hausa guys I met also felt Naira is a Hausa word. Just like the Igbo, they wondered how I couldn't realise that it sounded like a Hausa word. Lol.

bigfrancis21:


Lol. No Igbo person denies Olaudah's book. He is the first Nigerian to publish a book. There is a difference between being colonized by a people and being descended from a people. French, Portuguese, English peoples all colonized Africa but Africans are not descended from Europeans. Africans existed before the colonialists came. Same for Igbo clans that existed before they came under Benin's influence during its expansionist conquest.

Isseke, Olaudah's village is in Anambra state, which is next to the River Niger, across which you get into Asaba. It is possible that his village was under the authority of Benin's influence at the time of his capture. But his people were not Bini neither were they from Bini.

Ilekeh:


Is this the same reasoning for thinking Oyinbo (Oyibo) is Igbo?

Well, that explains a lot.

bigfrancis21:


Lol. First of all, people lie. You're blatantly lying that it is very obvious. You have no proof whatsoever to prove what you're making up.

Second, even if it is distantly true, you are just generalizing. Just because one Igbo person thinks 'nko' is Igbo doesn't mean every Igbo does. We don't even use it In Igbo language, what we use is 'kwanu' (before kwanu). 'Before nko' is informal that is used in Pidgin. It is not even used in official Nigerian English in formal/official settings. No lecturer in class or ministers during official meetings will start blabbering away 'nko' in official Nigerian English. It is totally informal. Yoruba words adopted out end up in pidgin english, and in nothing else. For 'oya', we have 'ngwa', for 'jor', we have 'biko' which many nollywood fans beyond Nigeria know - thanks to Nollywood. Even my Haitian co-worker, a die-hard lover of Nigerian movies knows 'igwe', 'biko', and with their correct pronunciations. Observe, so-called 'influential' Yoruba words only end up in Pidgin English. When it comes to business, Igbos speak Igbo with their native words.

I noticed you're beginning to sound irritated. You began playing the game of claiming foreign words as yours and I was only playing along.

bigfrancis21:


Yoruba is a tonal language. The Igbo war chant, Nzogbu Enyi mba Enyi when rendered/written by a Yoruba as seen online is, 'Nzogbu Eyin mba Eyin', adding an 'n' to the Enyi word, in line with the language's tonal feature. Therefore, it comes as no surpise if the word was adapted and 'n' added to it in line with its tonal feature. Nwantinti = wantintin in Yoruba. It is always about the 'n'.

There is no evidence that the word originated from Yoruba. I have provided evicende that shows the usage in Igboland to as early as 17th century, and the pervasive use of the 'word' in Igbo names, thus making it likely originating originally from Igbo land and spreading to other areas.

semitunde:


Back up a little.

You are turning this into a díck measuring contest. You won't win.

I wasn't generalising, I used the example to to teach on how many Igbo have confidently, though wrongfully bought into adapted languages as their own.

If you read my post well you'd have seen that I was explaining how parents can influence a younger generation with adapted words and the children going forward think those words are originally from the language.

People code mix everywhere, especially when they have the liberty of using another language that better communicates their thoughts. A lot of code mixing of Yoruba with English probably made you term those words as pidgin. Do you stay in the west? I'm beginning to think you dont, and it explains your leaning on several issues to which can be easily understandable to another Igbo person staying in the west. Especially one that has been well integrated into the society there.

Whether Yoruba words are more popular outside or not is left others to decide, I won't go there unless you want to drag that issue.

Finally, I've realised you base your "facts" so much on Google. What you may not have realised is that people pur those things there. Not all info from it is authentic. I laughed when you were replying ileke and you said you checked Google on the OSU subject and found nothing other than posts from Nairaland. Well bro, that googling. If you think the posts from Nairaland are not fact enough, what makes you think the other sites are?

You need to spend a year or two in places like osun and Ibadan to reorientate your mind.

P.S. ngwanu in my thinking is quite different and a little more restrictive compared to "nko".

Finally, I've realised you base your "facts" so much on Google. What you may not have realised is that people pur those things there. Not all info from it is authentic. I laughed when you were replying ileke a[b]nd you said you checked Google on the OSU subject and found nothing other than posts from Nairaland[/b]. Well bro, that googling. If you think the posts from Nairaland are not fact enough, what makes you think the other sites are?

bigfrancis21:


I just did and didn't see any 'massive' portrayal of Igbo maltreatment of Osu on google but saw some threads from nairaland which flood the topic on the internet.

StarFlux:
Very interesting, thank you.

Early usage doesn't have to mean anything whatsoever though.

Just because something happens to be documented by chance doesn't ultimately make it the truth; or likely even.

I'm trying to be objective, but if oyibo is indeed Igbo, then the Igbos corrupted their own word towards the urecognizable. Seems more likely to be an original Yoruba word as it can actually be traced. Seems like a really odd word to borrow since it can be easily expressed either way. As already mentioned Igbos also have multiple words for the same concept (regional borrowing). Again that's weird as it is pretty exclusive in Yoruba and might date further back since the use is unified.

In the end is doesn't matter as you can speculate till sleeps hits you, there's no clear answer. Borrowing is what keeps cultures alive and doesn't make anyone superior as seems to be the general attitude of this thread. Perhaps the word should simply be called Nigerian.

Haplogroup L1b is most frequent in West Africa. It is carried by 17-20% of the Senegalese population, and is also common among Nigerian Igbo, Mauritanians, El Hierro, Gran Canarians, Akan people, Algerians, the Lemba, and Egyptians

bigfrancis21:


1) I think you're the one who thinks its a contest when there is no actual contest here and academic evidence proves the usage of Oyibo in Igboland to the 17th century, a period when Igbo had very little or no contact with the Yoruba of South West, and you have failed to establish any proof whatsoever but laying claims to something you can't prove. The Kingdom of Benin wedged in between SE and SS even further served to checkmate any direct contact between both groups.

2)

I think you have a reading comprehension problem. Here is my original post:


Why shouldn't I base my facts from google? Why shouldn' I cite works of well-researched authors and publishers? I should base my facts on you? I should ignore true academic researchers and authors and 'believe' your lies? Do you even have a PhD to start with? What do you know about research and academia?

3) You seriously have a reading comprehension problem. 'Ngwanu' is to 'Oya' in Yoruba and 'kwanu' is to 'nko'.

Your level of reasoning is baffling, I must admit.

bigfrancis21:


@bol..on the contrary, early usage does matter. Because it indicates the originality of something. Now, 'oyibo' might be Igbo and 'oyinbo' THE yoruba pronunciation however the bone of contention lies in the originality of which, of which to establish the originality of something, as it always is in the world of academia, academic evidence of its early usage has to be furnished. Open up any Oxford or Cambridge dictionary and look up words, linguists try to trace the origin of a word going by the very first mention of the world in the particular period of time. So far I have done that for Igbo, you have utterly failed to do that for Yoruba.

Now, let us assume 'oyibo' is Igbo (which is recorded in wikipedia) and 'oyinbo' is Yoruba and both are correct. The existence of 'oyibo' in Igboland as at 17th century has been established. Any academic author will quickly establish that as fact. Now how can you prove the Yoruba had been using 'oyinbo' before 17th century? How is it not possible that the word spread to SW, through the Edo peoples? Almost every tribe in Nigeria except the SW calls it 'oyibo' which makes us to believe that they are pronouncing the word in its original form and 'oyinbo' being the corrupted form? Ok, please furnish evidence for the earliest usage of 'oyinbo' in Yoruba land.

Going by semitunde's ill-formed 'logic' that borrowed words 'become shorter', now let us take a look at these similar words and establish the parent origins:

Igbo: okwute (6 letters) Yoruba: okuta (5 letters)
Igbo: mmiri (5 letters) Yoruba: omi (3 letters)
Igbo: gbajie (6 letters) Yoruba: baje (4 letters)
Igbo: Ogwu (more complicated sounding) Yoruba: Ogun (less complicated pronunciation). We all know language subsets often have less complex wordings than the original. French, Spanish, Italian (subset languages) words compared to Latin (parent languge) words is a classic example.
Igbo: Egwugwu masquerde, Yoruba: egungun masquerade (notice another simplification of the Yoruba pronunciation).

Going by semitunde's logic, Yoruba derived from the Igbo. The linguistic evience is too easy to see.

DNA evidence of the Igbo Ukwu bronze metals proves their construction to about 10th century AD. Meaning the Igbo were already in existence on or before that time. According to Professor E.E. Okafor, the Dean of Archaeology at the University of Nigeria, new dating of samples of slag and bloom from ancient industrial furnaces in Lejja, Nsukka in Igbo land sent to UK for dating by the Archaeology Department at the University of Nigeria, Nsukka, recently returned with a shocking date of 4,000 B.C! However, Yorubas claim Ife civilization began at only 600BC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ife

Serious research is yet to be carried out on the ancient Igbo pyramids which might uncover a shocking early dynasty period of the Igbo people.

Maternal DNA evidence shows a common L1B maternal DNA ancestry between Igbo, and Egyptians.
.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1872497311001268#sec0085

This evidence might prove the similarity in the Igbo pyramids and Step pyramids of Egypt (both cultures might have shared the similar ancestral mothers and women are the transmitters of culture), and another heavy evidence confirming the much earlier existence of the Igbo in their geographical area.

There is much more evidence I can furnish but can't due to time constraints.

What is the point of all these? Evidence of a very ancient history of the Igbo people.

Yoruba authors want to believe everybody and everything came from them, and also claiming the Binis too, even when the Bini monarchs have utterly rejected the false fairy tale and they've researched and published that the reverse - the Binis gave birth to the Yorubas, and their ancient territory extended to farwaway Lagos. Place names in lagos with bini-like names such as [b]Idu[/b]mota names prove this point. http://www.edo-nation.net/origin.htm

semitunde:


You are beginning to do what that Igbo boy i talked about also did.

He said: "can't you see nko sounds Igbo". And he repeatedly said the words to me for emphasis. When I asked for the meaning, he got confused.

To be fair , some Hausa guys I met also felt Naira is a Hausa word. Just like the Igbo, they wondered how I couldn't realise that it sounded like a Hausa word. Lol.

semitunde:


Your posts have often bordered on insults bro. Just to be clear, nobody has monopoly of such. I will be very civil with you cos that's who I am, and well, its the course I read.

My reference to your Google bible as the reference for facts is what I was pointing at. People like you and me put those sites you cull from online. You don't know me for starters. I may put up an untrue statement that supports your motif and you will see it as a statement of fact why? Because you can Google it or because I decided to add "PhD" in front of my pseudo name?

Idowu Akinlotan is a constant columnist in The Nation newspapers. He's supposed to be a fiery sociologist and probably a lawyer, read up to PhD level. Do you know that Idowu Akinlotan is a made up name? He's pieces can be penned by Luis Odion for instance. I'm sure you're following my logic since you're the one without comprehension problems...and have the vainness of asking if I have a PhD. What next will you ask? If I'm light skinned?


Not saying every info from Google is not fact, but not everything there is fact either regardless of the name said to have put it there or even the level of education the said author is claiming. Wikipedia can be modified by almost anyone and I see you quoting voraciously from it.
As for the ngwanu/kwanu, I'm not Igbo as you can clearly see. I expected a civil explanation or rebuttal with an explanation of what kwanu/ngwanu are and how it/they are related to the word nko. And then challenge me to fault your explanation or atleast give mine. That's how to have online convo. Bro.

And yes, my level of reasoning is not up for debate here, thats if you truly understand the meaning of that statement.

Francis!

Don't lose your sleep tonight o.

semitunde:


Pls Francis, wherever did my logic infer that Yoruba derived from Igbo and where in this online world did I mention that borrowed words become shorter, or anything in relation to that.

Pls point it out o. Cos its either I'm hallucinating or you're sniffing something. Lol.

You need to sleep.

bigfrancis21:


@bold...You've clearly edited your post to remove that part of your comment.

bigfrancis21:


@bold...on the contrary, early usage does matter. Because it indicates the originality of something. Now, 'oyibo' might be Igbo and 'oyinbo' THE yoruba pronunciation however the bone of contention lies in the originality of which, of which to establish the originality of something, as it always is in the world of academia, academic evidence of its early usage has to be furnished. Open up any Oxford or Cambridge dictionary and look up words, linguists try to trace the origin of a word going by the very first mention of the world in the particular period of time. So far I have done that for Igbo, you have utterly failed to do that for Yoruba.

Now, let us assume 'oyibo' is Igbo (which is recorded in wikipedia) and 'oyinbo' is Yoruba and both are correct. The existence of 'oyibo' in Igboland as at 17th century has been established. Any academic author will quickly establish that as fact. Now how can you prove the Yoruba had been using 'oyinbo' before 17th century? How is it not possible that the word spread to SW, through the Edo peoples? Almost every tribe in Nigeria except the SW calls it 'oyibo' which makes us to believe that they are pronouncing the word in its original form and 'oyinbo' being the corrupted form? Ok, please furnish evidence for the earliest usage of 'oyinbo' in Yoruba land.

Going by semitunde's ill-formed 'logic' that borrowed words 'become shorter', now let us take a look at these similar words and establish the parent origins:

Igbo: okwute (6 letters) Yoruba: okuta (5 letters)
Igbo: mmiri (5 letters) Yoruba: omi (3 letters)
Igbo: gbajie (6 letters) Yoruba: baje (4 letters)
Igbo: Ogwu (more complicated sounding) Yoruba: Ogun (less complicated pronunciation). We all know language subsets often have less complex wordings than the original. French, Spanish, Italian (subset languages) words compared to Latin (parent languge) words is a classic example.
Igbo: Egwugwu masquerde, Yoruba: egungun masquerade (notice another simplification of the Yoruba pronunciation).

Going by semitunde's logic, Yoruba derived from the Igbo. The linguistic evience is too easy to see.

Carbon dating evidence of the Igbo Ukwu bronze metals proves their construction to about 10th century AD. Meaning the Igbo were already in existence on or before that time. According to Professor E.E. Okafor, the Dean of Archaeology at the University of Nigeria, new dating of samples of slag and bloom from ancient industrial furnaces in Lejja, Nsukka in Igbo land sent to UK for dating by the Archaeology Department at the University of Nigeria, Nsukka, recently returned with a shocking date of 4,000 B.C! However, Yorubas claim Ife civilization began at only 600BC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ife

Serious research is yet to be carried out on the ancient Igbo pyramids which might uncover a shocking early dynasty period of the Igbo people.

Maternal DNA evidence shows a common L1B maternal DNA ancestry between Igbo, and Egyptians.
.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1872497311001268#sec0085

This evidence might prove the similarity in the Igbo pyramids and Step pyramids of Egypt (both cultures might have shared the similar ancestral mothers and women are the transmitters of culture), and another heavy evidence confirming the much earlier existence of the Igbo in their geographical area.

There is much more evidence I can furnish but can't due to time constraints.

What is the point of all these? Evidence of a very ancient history of the Igbo people.

Yoruba authors want to believe everybody and everything came from them, and also claiming the Binis too, even when the Bini monarchs have utterly rejected the false fairy tale and they've researched and published that the reverse - the Binis gave birth to the Yorubas, and their ancient territory extended to farwaway Lagos. Place names in lagos with bini-like names such as Idu mota prove this point. http://www.edo-nation.net/origin.htm