@Loj, in my perception, there's nothing to be corrected in what you have stated. You are in order. However, the books are available for humanity to take advantage of and examine it's contents. Hence, the reason they were all permitted by the Light to come into existence. Personally, I believe they are meant to be guide into Creation's archive in order for the records to be set straight. But the limitation of the seer in rendering what he perceives correctly as well as the limitation of those who examine the accounts becomes a factor in grasping aright. . . . . We are admonished to examine all books that speak of the Light in the scriptures, and that advice is what I have always heeded. For many a gap in my knowledge are bridged when I examine various books while illuminating them with the Message. . . . . . . I shudder when I hear the statement seeking more is the work of the intellect(Frontal Brain) when Abdrushin in His Message clearly states that many will come after Him who will pick a sentence from His Message and write a whole book. Thereby expanding many a concept that is hidden in a single sentence. Who are those to read the books if reading them is regarded as a sign intellectual weakness of seeking more. . . . . . . . . .Why do Crossbearers always use that line instead of offering an explanation to those who ask if they have the answers, but if they don't have they stay silent rather than say one is seeking more. In most of my discussions with crossbearers, I discovered that those who do not have the answers to questions posed to them are the ones who normally use that line. Those who have the answers gladly offer them without using such lines. While those who see you as a new reader of the Message guide you in their explanation to the point you receive the answers you seek without them stating it categorically to you. And you leave their presence joyfully. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I ask my questions in genuiness so I can fill the gaps within. . . . For He says, "I wish to feel the gaps to questions which have been in the souls of men, and which never leave any serious thinker in peace". . . . . . . I have also noticed that there are many concept in which crossbearers have divergent opposing views held as 100% correct without leaving room for upward review of their views. In my opinion it is being wrong. I am ever evolving in areas I don't understand even if the view is different from the mainstream crossbearers or adherent. Sometimes I get conviction from examining books regarded as forbidden and a gap is bridged. So I think it is not fair to use the statement 'seeking more' in a case I am trying to find clarification. . .That is my submission. Thanks and remain remain blessed.

LoJ:

I followed the link you gave and saw the picture of the author. Surprisingly I had a vision of him this night, before I read your post.

I wish you blessings.

@Loj, I don't know the author of the link. However, I do have the book 'The Great Pyramid Reveals It's Secrets by Roselis Von Sass. I came the link of Mr. Mbah recently and discovered he too has read the book and wrote an article about it. I only chose to share his link, maybe it will urge others to examine the work of Roselis Von Sass. . . . . . . . . As for the mathematical exactitude, according to the book in question, those who receied the vision then in Chaldea, the astrologers and mathemations will also be present in the time of the end in order to help decipher what that once inscribed on the walls of the pyramid. It is stated in the book that it is so willed by The Light. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . About the vision you saw, I would advise next time not to give hint about things you will clearly not want to divulge. For I know you will refrain from speaking about the vision you had if ask to divulge it since it concerns someone else.

Marverick09:
@Loj, in my perception, there's nothing to be corrected in what you have stated. You are in order. However, the books are available for humanity to take advantage of and examine it's contents. Hence, the reason they were all permitted by the Light to come into existence. Personally, I believe they are meant to be guide into Creation's archive in order for the records to be set straight. But the limitation of the seer in rendering what he perceives correctly as well as the limitation of those who examine the accounts becomes a factor in grasping aright. . . . . We are admonished to examine all books that speak of the Light in the scriptures, and that advice is what I have always heeded. For many a gap in my knowledge are bridged when I examine various books while illuminating them with the Message. . . . . . . I shudder when I hear the statement seeking more is the work of the intellect(Frontal Brain) when Abdrushin in His Message clearly states that many will come after Him who will pick a sentence from His Message and write a whole book. Thereby expanding many a concept that is hidden in a single sentence. Who are those to read the books if reading them is regarded as a sign intellectual weakness of seeking more. . . . . . . . . .Why do Crossbearers always use that line instead of offering an explanation to those who ask if they have the answers, but if they don't have they stay silent rather than say one is seeking more. In most of my discussions with crossbearers, I discovered that those who do not have the answers to questions posed to them are the ones who normally use that line. Those who have the answers gladly offer them without using such lines. While those who see you as a new reader of the Message guide you in their explanation to the point you receive the answers you seek without them stating it categorically to you. And you leave their presence joyfully. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I ask my questions in genuiness so I can fill the gaps within. . . . For He says, "I wish to feel the gaps to questions which have been in the souls of men, and which never leave any serious thinker in peace". . . . . . . I have also noticed that there are many concept in which crossbearers have divergent opposing views held as 100% correct without leaving room for upward review of their views. In my opinion it is being wrong. I am ever evolving in areas I don't understand even if the view is different from the mainstream crossbearers or adherent. Sometimes I get conviction from examining books regarded as forbidden and a gap is bridged. So I think it is not fair to use the statement 'seeking more' in a case I am trying to find clarification. . .That is my submission. Thanks and remain remain blessed.

Hello Maverich09. Thanks for your submissions. There is nothing wrong in examining books written by adherents of the Grail Message and others. However, you have to consider what is of spiritual benefit to you, that is, what will help you to live in the sense of the laws of GOD. Do knowledge of the spiritual histories of the various personalities associated with the Grail Movement take one a step closer to GOD? There is an unhealthy propensity among many that have come across the book form of the Grail Message, and that is "they want to know more and more". But the Grail Message is the living Truth in its original and must be experienced. The book form of the Grail Message is meant to be a signpost directing each of us to the road of the living Truth (the Living Grail Message). If we follow that road, we will undergo billions of experiences that will bring us to the recognition of the Truth. What many seekers do is that the gaze at the signpost, analyze the signpost and come up with new questions, and yet they can very easily find all the answers they need if the follow the road that the signpost is pointing to. Clearly and lucidly, both the messages of Jesus and Abd-ru-Shin have shown us the way to the luminous kingdom of GOD. Both messages admonished us to love and this LOVE is the secret to ascent to the kingdom of GOD. It is also the secret that will give us answers that we need for our spiritual development. To love GOD and his creations does not require journey into the spiritual histories of individuals that are at one time envoys, apostles or disciples of GOD. If such a knowledge becomes necessary for ones development, then it will be revealed to him or her.

Yes, some adherents of the Grail Message may warn seekers against asking such questions because they have no answer. However, some few know (blessed with the ability to consciously draw from the book of Life) the answer and can clearly "see" that such questions will be of no benefit to the seeker and may actually lead him or her astray, hence their unwillingness to answer and the warning to consider only those things that is of spiritual benefit. With few exceptions, those that ask questions have not yet experienced the Grail Message but merely have studied or analysed it. When one has absorbed the power of GOD that comes from experiencing the Truth, one has only one inner desire: to love GOD and all creations. All questions vanish for in the power of GOD, an answer is already provided to such a soul before the brain has the chance to to put it into earthly form. In the luminous regions of creations, there are only beings who perpetually swing in the Laws of GOD and not those who want to know more or more. In wanting to know more and more, we actually know nothing but in not knowing we actually come to know of everything that is of spiritual benefit to us. This my last sentence may appear as a paradox but it summarizes everything I have been trying to say. Stay blessed.

Marverick09:
About the vision you saw, I would advise next time not to give hint about things you will clearly not want to divulge. For I know you will refrain from speaking about the vision you had if ask to divulge it since it concerns someone else.

You are right. My apologies. I will correct that right now.

mnwankwo:

In wanting to know more and more, we actually know nothing but in not knowing we actually come to know of everything that is of spiritual benefit to us. This my last sentence may appear as a paradox but it summarizes everything I have been trying to say. Stay blessed.

Masterpiece! I am always blessed by your postings. And I feel sorry that I discovered Nairaland too late, when you guys are no longer contributing much.

As always, keep doing the good job. We are blessed by your ministry.

I wish you blessings.

mnwankwo:

...

I read your last post, many many times. I am always amazed by the emanations of light and love that flow out of your posts. I've read all of your posts on nairaland, I no longer how many times, and still experience the same thing i.e. huge amounts of emanations of light and love flowing out and penetrating my soul.

It is my privilege to read from you and know you - albeit superficially.

Stay blessed.

@mnwankwo &loj, maybe the reason I personally despise that statement is because for most crossbearers I perceive an air of importance. . . The first time I heard about the 1931 edition, I was made to understand by a crossbearer that those who read it go mad, so as a result I shied away. He said those who want to know more are the ones who want to read it. Little did I know I would come across it again online. Then I decided to find out if its true people go mad after reading it. And behold it was all lies and misconception. . . After examining it to see for myself I went to a circle to enquire about the veracity of it's contents but I received the same treatment and was told I wanted to know more and ever since then I hear it so often that I get pieced-off when I do. . . . . . I have been a longtime follower of your post(mnwankwo) and that of justcool as a guest for many years. They are enlightening and in many areas render answers to questions that are within me. The only reason I came down from being a guest is when I realized justcool has finally examined the 1931 edition during the period he was on a spiritual retreat. I knew inwardly the retreat had something to do with the 1931 editio, so I waited patiently for when he would make reference to the edition. And behold he did. Then I realized I could at least ask some of my questions that still require deep insight since we are somehow on the same page. . . . . . . . . . . . . . But when statements like seeking more is used. I feel disappointed since I feel people who use them are creating an air of importance. . . . . . . . . . . . I have many friends who has told me crossbearers always act arrogantly with knowledge. And I tell them it's true since I experience it too. When one is privilege to read a book others have not read we tend to present it as if the knowledge of the transmission came from us(I am not referring to both of you for you lead people to the Message). . . . . . . . . . . I think I would rather go back up as a guest and continue to read post from you guys take what I can leave what I don't comprehend. Rather than come down and ask and then receive the response of wanting to know more. I always love post that go straight to the point to explain rather than use those words. I have been wondering how people with great insights and visions could not realize in one of their visions that the edition of the last hand was not authorised by the Light even though it contains truths but arranged different from order of the Light. And yet those without visions could. Thanks all the same.

Marverick09:
@mnwankwo &loj, maybe the reason I personally despise that statement is because for most crossbearers I perceive an air of importance. . . The first I heard about the 1931 edition, I was made to understand by a crossbearer that those who read it go mad back then so as a result I shyied away. He said those who want to know more are the ones who want to read it. Little did I know I would come across it again online. Then I decided to find out if its true people go mad after reading it. And behold it was all lies and misconception. . . After examining it to see for myself I went a circle and I received the same treatment if wanting to know more and ever since then I hear it so often that I get pieced-off when I do. . . . . . I have been a longtime follower of your post(mnwankwo) and that of justcool as a guest for many years. They are enlightening and in many areas render answers to questions that are within me. The only reason I came down from being a guest is when I realized justcool has examined the 1931 edition. Then I realized I could at least ask some of my questions that still require deep insight since we are somehow on the same page. . . . . . . . . . . . . . But when statements like seeking more is used. I feel disappointed since I feel people who use them are creating an air of importance. . . . . . . . . . . . I have many friends who has told me crossbearers always act arrogantly with knowledge. And I tell them it's true since I experience it too. When one is privilege to read a book others have not read we tend to present it as if the knowledge of the transmission came from us. . . . . . . . . . . I think I would rather go back up as a guest and continue to read post from you guys take what I can leave what I don't comprehend. Rather than come down and ask and then receive the response of wanting to know more. Thanks all the same.

Hello Maverick09. Thanks again for your response. My advice is not meant to discourage you from asking questions when you are moved to. It is simply an advice based on my own experience. You can take it or reject it based on your own intuition. It is shocking that a "crossbearer" will tell you that you will go mad if you examine the 1931 edition. Fear or threat of fear only comes from the darkness and not the Light. To seek for the Truth is the ultimate goal of all creatures and that should never be discouraged. But it is the Spirit that seeks, not the brain. The brain studies and analyses. How does knowing whether Cassandra or Abd-ru-shin incarnated first on Earth lead any human being closer GOD? If you are connected with these events and it becomes necessary for you to know for your own development, you will get the answer without even reading any books including the transmitted writings. However, follow your own intuition and do not accept anything except it resonates deep within you. Stay blessed.

Marverick09:
...

Hello Marverick09.

I am sorry if I sounded arrogant in my posting. That was not my intend. Kindly accept my apologies. I am not a knowing one, neither am I a cross bearer. I am a simple seeker of the Truth and I was led to the grail message. I am not affiliated to any movement related to the Grail movement, and I am ignorant of their workings.

I am however convinced that the Grail message is more than a Book or collection of books, but the living truth at the center of the universe, to be experienced and to be lived. This experience is in my sensing beyond intellectual arguments and analysis about facts of the spiritual history of mankind. Nonetheless follow your heart and your intuition.

Again, feel free to ask your questions. People who are willing and able to provide the answers will gladly do so. As for me, I don't know much, and I am also here to learn.

Cheerful greetings.

@Loj, I appreciate your openness. I would be glad if Crossbears, adherents and seekers on this forum as well as in other places strive to refrain from using such statements like wanting to know more or it's the work of the darkness when people with different perception totally different from theirs speak or ask questions. I believe Abdrushin is the only One with the knowledge and Power to correctly survey mankind and hence know when questions are put forward out of vanity. . We are all guided in different ways. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . @mnwankwo, the reason I asked was because of the explanations proferred by justcool concerning Maria as a collection of the feminine Part of Parsifal who he said later incarnated as Casandra in order for her to experience matter after Parsifal's first incarnation. And yet one who was gifted to pen down most of the transmitted writings back then speaks of her coming before Abdrushin's first earthly experiencing seen from her visions. . . . . . . . . . I wanted someone who can clear the misunderstanding in the timelines. For lately I am beginning to see and hear people from various quarters receiving visions from the Light, yet receive opposing visions. Countering themselves in explanation. And in the words of Paul according to the scriptures, the Lord is not a Lord of confusion. Yet their are confusion among crossbearers in all countries. Each claiming to hold the right interpretation of the Message and at the same time saying we absorb the Message according to our maturity. But they fail to see that even in different levels of maturity knowledge evolves. Gaps are needed to be filled and were one offers an explanation with certainty today only to discover tomorrow that what he offered was only part. I have come to realize not to compulsorily hold on to my perception 100%. I give room for deeper insights that throw more lights on grey areas and build on my current perception. Hence the reason I quietly listen to other adherents err their perceptions so I can build on my knowledge till it gets to conviction and becomes unshakeable. . . But people should not present their perception as absolute. That would be wrong I think, even if they have conviction of it. It should still be presented as a personal one. For I have come across many who spoke authoritatively that they KNOW Abdrushin rewrote His Message only to later change that view after finally summoning the courage to examine the old edition. Some speak of the divinity of Frau Maria and Fraulein Irmingard with absolute certainty, yet they have never come across Abdrushin's lecture titled "The Bridge to The New Covenant" were it is explained in all their years as crossbearers . . . I have gone too far, perhaps just to buttress a point. That those who offer explanation should do so with simplicity as justcool has always done. Thanks to you all you guys

LoJ:
I read your last post, many many times. I am always amazed by the emanations of light and love that flow out of your posts. I've read all of your posts on nairaland, I no longer how many times, and still experience the same thing i.e. huge amounts of emanations of light and love flowing out and penetrating my soul.

It is my privilege to read from you and know you - albeit superficially.

Stay blessed.

Hello LoJ. Thanks for your kind words. Stay blessed.

@Justcool,

Your illustration with the TV station was very helpful...................ThankS!!!

@ All................Thank you for your contributions.

@Justcool,

My next inquiries are on the seven universes in Material Creation:

--Following the principle of "as above, so below"----------how are they related to the seven planes of Primordial Creation (i.e. if they are)?

--Are they all on the same, how to say it, "horizontal level"?

--Is there any essential difference btw them?

--In any of the Universes, is there more than one cosmic planet existing as a home for developing spirits?

--Given that all were addressed to in the Revelations of John, are they all facing the Judgement simultaneously?

Have not been able to either intuitively or intellectually understand their existence and one reason for asking is this. Spirit germs are continually coming down from their "heimat" (Paradise homeland) to develop in Material Creation. Meanwhile, there is only a specific time period in the life-cycle of a selected Earth-like cosmic planet (located in a Universe) wherein it can accept completely fresh spirit germs. After this point is passed in the life-cycle of such a planet, where do the continually-arriving fresh spirit germs go?

---is it another "younger" selected Earth-like planet in the same Universe?

Or if there is only one such cosmic planet in that Universe then perhaps the newly arriving germs go to a "younger" planet in another Universe. If so, then it would mean that the Universes themselves are not of the same age and at any point in time, each of the seven Universes are at different points of development in their material life-cycles.

However, given that the spirits/inhabitants in all the seven Universes or "churches" were addressed in the beginning of the Book of Revelations, one could assume that the reasoning in the last paragraph above is not correct.

Anyhow, that is the reasons for the questions initially listed above. In short, please want to know your perception and understanding about them.

No hurries, please respond only when or if you feel moved to do so and of course, at your own convenient earth-time.

Thanks and have a conscious week................

Hello all,
It gives me great joy to be actually posting on this thread. I came across the Grail Message about 3 years ago, and I have read it severally, including the 1931 version. I discovered this thread about two years ago and have been of and on and a guest till now.
My knowledge of the Message has been greatly enriched by the inputs of justcool and m_nwankwo and some others, I give all the praise to God for leading me here.
I do read sequentially everytime and need clarification on the issue of Christmas Dec 25th being the birth of Christ, I'm not at the lecture so I may not be able to pick out paragraphs now but it's bothering me seriously. I also don't understand why Easter too should be celebrated since historically they are of pagan origins.
I don't know much but I'm beginning to understand some things, this issue is the one most paramount to me for the time being.
Thanks and remain blessed.

@ Marverick09

Thanks for your questions.

First, I will like to encourage you to not to leave this forum; please stay and ask any questions you may have. I don’t think that m_nwankwo in his post, was persuading you to refrain from asking questions, so please stay. And always point out things in my post that you do not understand. The Truth speaks for itself and it’s never afraid of being questioned.

Marverick09:
@Justcool indeed I throughly appreciate how you present your personal perceptions. If all Crossbearers and adherents do present their perceptions the way you do there would be less misunderstandings and disagreement among us. However, I have realized the importance of examining all books related to the Message from The Grail and then seek honestly to build my understanding. I know that virtually all the transmitted writings we have today are not precisely what they had in the proximity of Abdrushin. They have been truncated and so in many places there's been gap in our understanding of them. Like in the Message were certain concept have left out in the current edition. Those like you and I who have summoned the courage to look into the past edition can testify of this. I do understand that Roselis was one of those who penned down the transmitted writings in His proximity.

I know that there are many books that claim to be received in the proximity of Abd-ru-shin. Some of them were actually written after His earthly demise. I personally hold as authority only the ones received while He was on earth, and published by the same company that published His Grail message. He also alluded to them in a lecture in ‘Resonances to the Grail message.’ To further validate their truthfulness, He answered questions about one of them in ‘Questions and Answers,” when a question was sent to Him about the Incas. These are the forerunner series, ‘From Past millennia,’ and the 3 volumes of ‘Past Eras Awaken.’ I understand that their contents were tempered with after the departure of Abd-ru-shin; but the originals can easily be gotten. A lot of German cross bearers still have the original copies in German, and they are very generous with them, some upload them on line, and one can easily have a translator translate them.
For the sake of clearing some misconceptions, not to discredit Rosilis Von Saas, I do not think that Rosilis wrote any of her books while Abd-ru-shin was on earth. I believe her books came after the departure of Abd-ru-shin; She herself is an adherent of the 3 volume editions of the Grail message called edition of the last hand. I have come across some of her writings online, I only read them and decide for myself; I actually have a copy of one where she wrote that Oscar Ernst Bernhardt is a human spirit; the article is titled "Where is the home of Abd-ru-shin." It is circulating all over the internet; you might have read it. I don't think it is appropriate to upload it here, otherwise I would have done so. However, like I said, far be it from me to judge her and say she is wrong; that would be stepping beyond my limits as a human spirit. I will only always share my perception, you should only take what resonates within you and the rest you are very free to throw away.

About the issue of bisection, whether you believe that Cassandra came before Abd-ru-shin or vice-verse, it is still correct to say that Maria is a bisection of Imanuel in Parsifal, and that this bisection occurred after His first earthly advent. Remember that Maria with Divine unsubstantiate core remains in the Divine realm above Paradise; and works in creation through a vessel. I said clearly in my explanation that this Divine unsubstantiate Maria was given a vessel in creation. These vessels are not empty shelves, but living beings. Hence, this vessel could incarnate on earth before becoming a vessel for Maria; this vessel could have incarnated on earth before the unsubstantiated core in Parsifal bisected. Even, Nahome, at her first earthly incarnation had not become a vessel for Irmingard because at the time Irmingard was still just a Devine being, the spark of unsubstantiality had not be given to her.

Hence you don’t necessarily need to throw away the fact of Parsifal’s bisection, to hold on to Rosilis view that Cassandra incarnated first; they both do not really oppose each other. However to do so, you will have to agree that in her first incarnation she was not yet the vessel for the Maria the unsubstantiate Love of God.

Each individual should only take what resonates within him; always feel free to throw away any of my perceptions does not resonate within you; I remain a human spirit striving towards the light and hence can very well be wrong. The Grail message is the ultimate authority.

Marverick09:

So I would urge you not to categorical state with certainty that it was after Abdrushin that Casandra came. For we both were too sure about the Divinity of Frau Maria and Fraulein Irmingard on earth, only to realize that they were anchors. .

And I thank you for this. At this stage in development, I hold on to my perception on this issue; you should hold on to yours too. As we develop, one day will find out who is wrong; I pray that then, we will be allowed to share our realization to one another. Spiritual life is all about movement; some go through detours and bypaths, some may even hold on to a wrong view for a while. Hence I wish not to take away what you hold sacred. As long as we are really striving or experiencing, then no worries, we will one day arrive at the truth in this or any issues.

Marverick09:

I am forever learning and I only ask questions about things contradictions I do not understand. . .

This, I always encourages my readers to do. I actually appreciate it. Questions or challenges will never hurt me if I’m right in my views; it will only strengthen me if my views are right, your questions will only weaken them if they are not in accord with the Truth. Therefore by challenging or questioning me, you are helping me and my accent.

Marverick09:

The book about the Pyramid is a very insightful book. The first time I saw I didn't want examine it even I had the yearning to, but for the fact she formed her own group, hence I rejected it. It was after I actually read the Old version of The Message that I decided to actually examine every book and decide for myself, rather than follow popular belief. In the book we are made to understand that the top of the pyramid was made flat so that if mankind remains faithful till the time The Judge sets foot on earth, He will journey to egypt and personally place His Sign, the Cross of Truth on it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Like I will always say; I do not intend to take away what you or anybody hold sacred or correct. Everything, books, and teachings that people hold or adhere to represent stages of spiritual development. I cannot tell you to throw it away and accept mine; all I will tell you is to experience it. By experiencing it you will mature to the Truth of what it really is. Since it resonates within you, it is a reflection of something within you, be it wrong or right, you will have to thoroughly experience it in order to see it as it really is. Therefore, my good friend, feel free to follow your heart.

Marverick09:
@
Now that brings me to another question, the lecture Christmas says the Son of Man wasn't originally meant to descend to the earth, and yet all prophecies of His coming for the judgement spoke about His walking the earth in a human form. Does that mean He was supposed to conclude the judgememt from the clouds after which He would descend into the earth and lead the up building personally? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?. . . . . . . . . . But that changed when mankind committed the most grievous murder, that of Jesus. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Can you please throw more light according to your perception. For indeed you have wonderful insights I can benefit from. Thanks in anticipation of response.

Thanks for this very worthy question.
A lot of people have asked this question, indeed some even tried to discredit the Grial message bassed on the appeerant contradiction. Somebody pointed out that even the book ‘From Past Miliniea’ reported Abd-ru-shin telling Nahome about His next earthly incarnation to bring judgment, yet the Grail message said that it wasn't initially planed that the son of man will be on earth to bring judgment, that this became necessary after Jesus saw the failure of mankind and asked for it. This is a riddle that many have battled with.
It is my perception that the answer to this can also be found in the Grail message. One must come to terms that Immanuel, The son of man, Parsifal, although linked, are not exactly the same. Although sometimes these names are used interchangeably, but when it comes to Truth, one has to let go of words and absorb with his spirit. Not being able to do this is part of the reason why the message of Jesus concerning the Son of man was not understood; the listeners mixed two distinct people into one. The same way as we easily mix Imanuel, Parsifal, and the same.

What then is the difference? Imanuel is the son(part) of God; the creative will of God Whose activity is not limited to creation. Since He is the creative Will of God, for anything to be created, His radiation is needed. Hence a part of Him was sent to the Grail castle at the border of Divine substantiate sphere, to radiate outside so that creation can come into being outside the Divine substantiate sphere. Hence a part of Imanuel received a Divine substantiate cloak and dwelled at the Grail castle for the purpose of coming into being of creation, to which man belongs; This is the son of man. Just as God has unavoidable radiation, the unsubstantiate core in the son of man also has unavoidable radiation. This unavoidable radiation which was sent outside the border of the Divine sphere is Parsifal. Parsifal is the Son of man’s radiation cloaked with purest substance of the Primordial spiritual. Hence Parsifal is the cloak or anchorage of the Son of man. Both are two distinct persons yet inseparably linked by radiation. Out of the radiation of Parsifal creation took on form; hence Parsifal is the King, the ruler of all the worlds(creation)

However, the son of Man remains outside creation, in the Grail castle within the Divine substantiate sphere and Parsifal in an annex to the castle outside the Divine substantiate sphere. It was only after distances, unimaginable too the human brain, from Parsifal that the first plane of the Primordial spiritual sphere could condense and take on form. Hence Parsifal is not really in the Primordial spiritual planes as it is often thought; He cannot be placed on any of the Primordial spiritual planes; He is simply above all creation. In the initial chapters of the Grail message, one may get the idea that Parsifal is in the first plane of the Primordial spiritual sphere; however, this is just gradually introducing the reader to the reality. Just as one, in describing the sky to a child, might say that the sun is in the sky; but as the child matures, he gets initiated to fact that the sun is indeed terribly far from the sky. The relationship between Parsifal and the first plane of the Primordial sphere can be analogized by the relationship between the sun and the earth; a rough analogy though.

After the failure of Lucifer, who was sent as a support for creation; creation suffered especially subsequent creation which became cut off from the rest. And since creation is a whole, the consequence was that even the spiritual sphere weakened; since the spiritual currents leaving it into subsequent creation no longer returned as the law of reciprocal action ordained. Hence to halt the catastrophe which otherwise may have resulted, or to strengthen the spiritual sphere and bridge the gulf caused by the influence of Lucifer, It became necessarily to have a closer connection between the spiritual sphere and Divinity unsubstantiate. For this reason, a volition, which took on form arouse in the son of man. This volition which is a part of the son of man, and a living personality, was incarnated into the Primodial spiritual sphere. He received a body of Primodial spiritual substance; and hence, although His core is Divine unsubstantiate, He is part Divine and part spiritual. Through this connection and incarnation, greater energy flowed into the Primordial spiritual sphere, greatly strengthening it and the entire creation. Of course this volition of the Son of man in creation has to start as a child and gradually grow into adulthood. And of course, this incarnation into the Primordial spiritual sphere had to happen through Parsifal who is the gate from Divine into creation; and also through the primordial queen. Hence the imagines we see of the Primordial queen carrying the infant Son of Man. And also, this child had to spend His youth in the Grail castle due to so reasons already discussed in this thread. This incarnated son of man is called Imanuel; It was this incarnation into the Primodial spiritual plane that Isaiah was allowed to see and report on earth.

All the ancient Prophecies talking about the coming of the King of creation to earth at the end times for judgment, refers to the coming of Parsifal. The coming that was promised a long time ago; for this coming the volition of Parsifal took on form and descended into the earth for the first time, this first coming was in preparation for His coming during judgment coming. It is my perception that it was Him who was supposed to descend into the earth for judgment. The Son of man however, was only supposed descend as far as the ethereal realm(Coming in the clouds) to receive those who have passed the judgment and lead them into the kingdom of God, or to subjugate subsequent creation and make it part of God’s kingdom. But seeing that the earth and earthly humanity is in danger of destruction that judgment will bring, Christ prayed that the son of man should descend all the way down to the earth for the protection of the earth and the followers of the Truth.

When the time came, at first it was Parsifal in His volition that incarnated and wrote the Living message. Afterwards, when the time came, Imanuel the son of man descended into Parsifal or into the physical body of Parsifal. At this point Parsifal functioned only as a cloak; while the animating core was Imanuel the son of man. The power that descended into this cloak was so much; but this cloak has been trained or purified to bear it, a process or preparation that took thousands of years. The called ones who incarnated on earth to draw this power, modify it and pass on to mankind failed; this drawing would have counterbalanced the attraction or the pull of the luminous realms on Imanuel. The little that mankind was able to draw, they used wrongly and almost annihilated each other with it in a senseless war. And when Power well up in Him and found none to flow to; His physical body could not handle it anymore. Based on the law of attraction of homogenous species He was pulled back to His home.

This is my perception.

Thanks and remain blessed

Marverick09:
I would be glad if Crossbears, adherents and seekers on this forum as well as in other places strive to refrain from using such statements like wanting to know more or it's the work of the darkness

The above statement sounds like one wanting to shy away or indirectly dodging from the dazzling light emanating from Truth. The writer of the message did not shy away from exposing the cunning ways of the darkness, and He later advised crossbearers to follow His examples. Why then should crossbearers, adherents, and seekers refrain from using such words that exposes the cunning ways of darkness?

M_nwankwo has rightly said that "FEAR and threat of FEAR come from the darkness", he is also right when he said that "wanting to know more is knowing nothing". Wanting to know between Abd-ru-shin and Cassandra who first incarnated on earth is the same as wanting to know between a fly and a hourse which first appeared on earth. How can such knowledge contribute to the ascent of a human spirit? Any true Crossbearer should embrace, not warn against the above advice of m_nwankwo. Think yourself deep into the meaning of the following word of Abd-ru-shin; "a man begins to become wise when he knows that he knows nothing".

Great number of people have been following this thread because of the enlightenment that comes from It through m_nwankwo, justcool and others. Let us not turn It into a place of expressing our intellectual sagacity.

@justcool, it is with great respect that I always view your explanations for it addresses the issues at hand with great humility and respect for the questionnaire. After which it is left for the one who ask to examine deeply. Hats off for you sir. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . @Ezebrain, it would be better for those who think my questions are of "intellectual sagacity" or out of wanting to know better to not respond to them. For I direct my questions to a particular persons. Yet again, if one feels the urge to give a reply to them when it is not addressed to them I particular they should mind the use of words and try to be humble in responding. . . I have been following this thread for so long and discovered that justcool and mnwankwo so far are the only ones who respond to questions without giving an air of superiority in their explanations. Hence the reason I addressed the question to him, and even while explaining to me, with the timelines and maps, he never used such words as wanting more or how will that benefit the human spirit. He explained to the best of his ability and asked me to take what I can from them. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .@justcool your above explanation totally resonate in me, I have always known that every volition of Parsifal are a personality but when I try to find clarification from other crossbearers if what I am experiencing within me is in line I am rebuffed for wanting to know more. I am really grateful that you answered. Truly grateful. I wish I could have a private chat with you where no one will interfere and tell me I am seeking more out of intellectual sagacity. As for the document of Roselis Von Sass you mentioned I have examined it and it never resonated with me. Yet again I still read her books but that which is not clear I set aside for the time being till I receive clarification for them. When I asked the question about who came first, it wasn't to find out who is right or wrong but to receive deeper insights just like you have done justice to it. Those who thought they saw that I was asking out vanity did so wrongly. The first time I tried to share my findings of th old version of the Message with a staunch crossbearer of the lasthand, I was accused of shifting my allegiance to the Valley. He actually said it was the people from the valley that are secretly bringing up the old version, yet it was false. People should answer a question sent their way if they feel the urge to do so, if not they should decline with humility and not with a feeling superiority . Thanks a million times @justcool.

@Marverick09
Forgive me for retuning to this issue. I pray for help in some of these issues; this is part of the reason shy sometimes it takes long too reply. And sometimes the answer comes to me at an unexpected times. Hence I have to add this to what I wrote a few hours ealier.

I’m happy that you mentioned the text “The First Threads for the Bridge to the New Covenant.” Do you know that the answer to our puzzle lies in it. Too quote from it:

[b]“The Lord sent out the Son of Man as the cornerstone of the new bridge to Creation. Upon His entry into
Creation, which is at the highest boundary of the Pure-Spiritual of the Primordial Creation in the Grail
Castle, the mystery of connecting the Son of Man with the Pure-Spiritual was accomplished. As the mediator God chose the Primordial Mother Elisabeth who sits enthroned as Queen of womanhood for
the entire creation. She is he virgin who Isaiah prophesied would bring the Son of Man to Creation.

Thus for the fulfillment of this Divine prophecy the first thread was laid for the fabric of a new covenant
which God grants to the chosen humanity; it is the first pillar of the bridge to the Light for all who want
to be saved upon it. At the same time, however, it is the sword which separates everything, judging and
destroying all that is dark, protecting all that yearns for the pure Light.

A part of Him was separated so as to stand beside the Sword of Judgment as Maria, the embodiment of
the purest Divine Love, to heal the wounds that the sword must inflict on those who are are only to be
punished but not destroyed!

Thus one spirit works simultaneously through two human bodies on earth as in all world parts and on
high in the castle in the Pure-Spiritual sphere. Upon transition into the Divine sphere, however, both
parts must always unite to be as it was originally. Thus from God came – Imanuel.

Upon transition into the Pure-Spiritual sphere Elisabeth, the Primordial Mother of Creation, added a
Pure-Spiritual part. Then followed the mystery of the separation of Maria. Only then was it possible for
the actual mission to begin, since the Son of Man must remain free of karma in His high activity.”
(Abd-ru-shin)
[/b]
From the above we are meant to understand that Isaiah prophesized it when the son of man incarnated into creation. On the last paragraph He made it clear that the separation(bisection) of Maria happened(followed) after this incarnation or entrance into creation. Now when did this incarnation happen? It could only have happened at the time Isaiah prophesized it or after the prophecy, otherwise Abd-ru-shin would not have used the word prophecy. To prophesize means to give tidings of a future event! Hence at the time of Isaiah’s prophecy Maria had not yet come into being! And by the time Isaiah made this prophecy on earth, Moses and Abd-ru-shin had already been on earth centuries before. Or would you argue that Isaiah came before Moses?? Even if we say that it happened at the time Isaiah was prophesizing it on earth; it still falls within the timeline of after Parsifal's first incarnation. Isaiah was born when the Jews were already free from Egyptian captivity; hence centuries after Moses who freed the Jews from the captivity. And Moses and Parsifal live around the same time on earth.

Please carefully follow my train of thought here, it is not difficult to.

I repeat, I’m not writing this to discredit Rosilis or to persuade you to accept it. I’m only stating facts to you. It is up to you to reject or accept it; either way you can count on my love.

Thanks and remain blessed.

justcool:
@ Marverick09

Thanks for your questions.

First, I will like to encourage you to not to leave this forum; please stay and ask any questions you may have. I don’t think that m_nwankwo in his post, was persuading you to refrain from asking questions, so please stay. And always point out things in my post that you do not understand. The Truth speaks for itself and it’s never afraid of being questioned.



I know that there are many books that claim to be received in the proximity of Abd-ru-shin. Some of them were actually written after His earthly demise. I personally hold as authority only the ones received while He was on earth, and published by the same company that published His Grail message. He also alluded to them in a lecture in ‘Resonances to the Grail message.’ To further validate their truthfulness, He answered questions about one of them in ‘Questions and Answers,” when a question was sent to Him about the Incas. These are the forerunner series, ‘From Past millennia,’ and the 3 volumes of ‘Past Eras Awaken.’ I understand that their contents were tempered with after the departure of Abd-ru-shin; but the originals can easily be gotten. A lot of German cross bearers still have the original copies in German, and they are very generous with them, some upload them on line, and one can easily have a translator translate them.
For the sake of clearing some misconceptions, not to discredit Rosilis Von Saas, I do not think that Rosilis wrote any of her books while Abd-ru-shin was on earth. I believe her books came after the departure of Abd-ru-shin; She herself is an adherent of the 3 volume editions of the Grail message called edition of the last hand. I have come across some of her writings online, I only read them and decide for myself; I actually have a copy of one where she wrote that Oscar Ernst Bernhardt is a human spirit; the article is titled "Where is the home of Abd-ru-shin." It is circulating all over the internet; you might have read it. I don't think it is appropriate to upload it here, otherwise I would have done so. However, like I said, far be it from me to judge her and say she is wrong; that would be stepping beyond my limits as a human spirit. I will only always share my perception, you should only take what resonates within you and the rest you are very free to throw away.

About the issue of bisection, whether you believe that Cassandra came before Abd-ru-shin or vice-verse, it is still correct to say that Maria is a bisection of Imanuel in Parsifal, and that this bisection occurred after His first earthly advent. Remember that Maria with Divine unsubstantiate core remains in the Divine realm above Paradise; and works in creation through a vessel. I said clearly in my explanation that this Divine unsubstantiate Maria was given a vessel in creation. These vessels are not empty shelves, but living beings. Hence, this vessel could incarnate on earth before becoming a vessel for Maria; this vessel could have incarnated on earth before the unsubstantiated core in Parsifal bisected. Even, Nahome, at her first earthly incarnation had not become a vessel for Irmingard because at the time Irmingard was still just a Devine being, the spark of unsubstantiality had not be given to her.

Hence you don’t necessarily need to throw away the fact of Parsifal’s bisection, to hold on to Rosilis view that Cassandra incarnated first; they both do not really oppose each other. However to do so, you will have to agree that in her first incarnation she was not yet the vessel for the Maria the unsubstantiate Love of God.

Each individual should only take what resonates within him; always feel free to throw away any of my perceptions does not resonate within you; I remain a human spirit striving towards the light and hence can very well be wrong. The Grail message is the ultimate authority.



And I thank you for this. At this stage in development, I hold on to my perception on this issue; you should hold on to yours too. As we develop, one day will find out who is wrong; I pray that then, we will be allowed to share our realization to one another. Spiritual life is all about movement; some go through detours and bypaths, some may even hold on to a wrong view for a while. Hence I wish not to take away what you hold sacred. As long as we are really striving or experiencing, then no worries, we will one day arrive at the truth in this or any issues.


This, I always encourages my readers to do. I actually appreciate it. Questions or challenges will never hurt me if I’m right in my views; it will only strengthen me if my views are right, your questions will only weaken them if they are not in accord with the Truth. Therefore by challenging or questioning me, you are helping me and my accent.



Like I will always say; I do not intend to take away what you or anybody hold sacred or correct. Everything, books, and teachings that people hold or adhere to represent stages of spiritual development. I cannot tell you to throw it away and accept mine; all I will tell you is to experience it. By experiencing it you will mature to the Truth of what it really is. Since it resonates within you, it is a reflection of something within you, be it wrong or right, you will have to thoroughly experience it in order to see it as it really is. Therefore, my good friend, feel free to follow your heart.



Thanks for this very worthy question.
A lot of people have asked this question, indeed some even tried to discredit the Grial message bassed on the appeerant contradiction. Somebody pointed out that even the book ‘From Past Miliniea’ reported Abd-ru-shin telling Nahome about His next earthly incarnation to bring judgment, yet the Grail message said that it was initially planed that the son of man will be on earth to bring judgment, that this became necessary after Jesus saw the failure of mankind and asked for it. This is a riddle that many have battled with.
It is my perception that the answer to this can also be found in the Grail message. One must come to terms that Immanuel, The son of man, Parsifal, although linked, are not exactly the same. Although sometimes these names are used interchangeably, but when it comes to Truth, one has to let go of words and absorb with his spirit. Not being able to do this is part of the reason why the message of Jesus concerning the Son of man was not understood; the listeners mixed two distinct people into one. The same way as we easily mix Imanuel, Parsifal, and the same.

What then is the difference? Imanuel is the son(part) of God; the creative will of God Whose activity is not limited to creation. Since He is the creative Will of God, for anything to be created, His radiation is needed. Hence a part of Him was sent to the Grail castle at the border of Divine substantiate sphere, to radiate outside so that creation can come into being outside the Divine substantiate sphere. Hence a part of Imanuel received a Divine substantiate cloak and dwelled at the Grail castle for the purpose of coming into being of creation, to which man belongs; This is the son of man. Just as God has unavoidable radiation, the unsubstantiate core in the son of man also has unavoidable radiation. This unavoidable radiation which was sent outside the border of the Divine sphere is Parsifal. Parsifal is the Son of man’s radiation cloaked with purest substance of the Primordial spiritual. Hence Parsifal is the cloak or anchorage of the Son of man. Both are two distinct persons yet inseparably linked by radiation. Out of the radiation of Parsifal creation took on form; hence Parsifal is the King, the ruler of all the worlds(creation)

However, the son of Man remains outside creation, in the Grail castle within the Divine substantiate sphere and Parsifal in an annex to the castle outside the Divine substantiate sphere. It was only after distances, unimaginable too the human brain, from Parsifal that the first plane of the Primordial spiritual sphere could condense and take on form. Hence Parsifal is not really in the Primordial spiritual planes as it is often thought; He cannot be placed on any of the Primordial spiritual planes; He is simply above all creation. In the initial chapters of the Grail message, one may get the idea that Parsifal is in the first plane of the Primordial spiritual sphere; however, this is just gradually introducing the reader to the reality. Just as one, in describing the sky to a child, might say that the sun is in the sky; but as the child matures, he gets initiated to fact that the sun is indeed terribly far from the sky. The relationship between Parsifal and the first plane of the Primordial sphere can be analogized by the relationship between the sun and the earth; a rough analogy though.

After the failure of Lucifer, who was sent as a support for creation; creation suffered especially subsequent creation which became cut off from the rest. And since creation is a whole, the consequence was that even the spiritual sphere weakened; since the spiritual currents leaving it into subsequent creation no longer returned as the law of reciprocal action ordained. Hence to halt the catastrophe which otherwise may have resulted, or to strengthen the spiritual sphere and bridge the gulf caused by the influence of Lucifer, It became necessarily to have a closer connection between the spiritual sphere and Divinity unsubstantiate. For this reason, a volition, which took on form arouse in the son of man. This volition which is a part of the son of man, and a living personality, was incarnated into the Primodial spiritual sphere. He received a body of Primodial spiritual substance; and hence, although His core is Divine unsubstantiate, He is part Divine and part spiritual. Through this connection and incarnation, greater energy flowed into the Primordial spiritual sphere, greatly strengthening it and the entire creation. Of course this volition of the Son of man in creation has to start as a child and gradually grow into adulthood. And of course, this incarnation into the Primordial spiritual sphere had to happen through Parsifal who is the gate from Divine into creation; and also through the primordial queen. Hence the imagines we see of the Primordial queen carrying the infant Son of Man. And also, this child had to spend His youth in the Grail castle due to so reasons already discussed in this thread. This incarnated son of man is called Imanuel; It was this incarnation into the Primodial spiritual plane that Isaiah was allowed to see and report on earth.

All the ancient Prophecies talking about the coming of the King of creation to earth at the end times for judgment, refers to the coming of Parsifal. The coming that was promised a long time ago; for this coming the volition of Parsifal took on form and descended into the earth for the first time, this first coming was in preparation for His coming during judgment coming. It is my perception that it was Him who was supposed to descend into the earth for judgment. The Son of man however, was only supposed descend as far as the ethereal realm(Coming in the clouds) to receive those who have passed the judgment and lead them into the kingdom of God, or to subjugate subsequent creation and make it part of God’s kingdom. But seeing that the earth and earthly humanity is in danger of destruction that judgment will bring, Christ prayed that the son of man should descend all the way down to the earth for the protection of the earth and the followers of the Truth.

When the time came, at first it was Parsifal in His volition that incarnated and wrote the Living message. Afterwards, when the time came, Imanuel the son of man descended into Parsifal or into the physical body of Parsifal. At this point Parsifal functioned only as a cloak; while the animating core was Imanuel the son of man. The power that descended into this cloak was so much; but this cloak has been trained or purified to bear it, a process or preparation that took thousands of years. The called ones who incarnated on earth to draw this power, modify it and pass on to mankind failed; this drawing would have counterbalanced the attraction or the pull of the luminous realms on Imanuel. The little that mankind was able to draw, they used wrongly and almost annihilated each other with it in a senseless war. And when Power well up in Him and found none to flow to; His physical body could not handle it anymore. Based on the law of attraction of homogenous species He was pulled back to His home.

This is my perception.

Thanks and remain blessed

@justcool, is one safe to say that the volition of Imanuel Who is enthroned in the Divine part of the Grail Castle gave birth to another Son of Man who was raised in the Primordial Spiritual plane also named Imanuel, while the the Volition of Parsifal also a personality in the first incarnation on earth. Can it be said they are four but yet ONE in their working

Please, what is your view on the topic that hit front page claiming Jesus Christ "broke the Laws"!

Thank you!

kadas01:
Please, what is your view on the topic that hit front page claiming Jesus Christ "broke the Laws"!

Hello Kadas01, thank you for your question. However not all of us do browse the Front page regularly, and as such may be unfamiliar with the topic you are referring to. It would therefore be welcomed if you could explain which "Laws" the Op is talking about. Is it the Judicial laws? Is the customs of the Jewish people he was sent to? Or is he talking about the laws of God which are an expression of his will?

It is necessary to understand which laws the Op is talking about, before those who want can express their views.

Greetings.

@justcool, indeed I do not doubt your explanations above and neither do I doubt that of Roselis. In fact, I am more inclined to understand yours than that of her's especially in the area of the document titled 'Where is the Homeland of Abdrushin'. I find it hard to accept the explanations in that documents but it's a personal perception though which is subject to review as more angles of explanations are brought to light from discussions like this. The following are excerpts from her book: . . . . . . . . . . . . Six thousand five hundred years still seperate us from the time of judgement of mankind! It is only a small fraction of the nearly immeasurable period of development once granted to mankind. These six thousand five hundred years are the last period in which every human being must attain his aim." . . . Horam, the astronomer, who had been standing silently beside Sargon, began to speak. "The pyramid shall be a prophecy in stone. The beginning and the end of the time of judgment, as well as the dates of all the important events of human destiny shall be marked on it. Moreover, measurements and ratios of this gigantic construction will carry much information. For instance, it will be possible to calculate the distance from our planet to the Sun, as well as the duration of the solar year and the and the weight and density of Earth. "This huge construction will be exactly in the middle of the Earth. A line crossing the middle of the pyramid will divide land and sea into two equal halves." "So the construction will not be built in our country?" someone inquired. Horam shook his head. "Here it would not be in the middle. Moreover, we already know that throughout the next 6,500 years many natural phenomena will strike our country." . . "The pyramid will be built in Egypt. As soon as the constructor arrives, the luminous guides who transmitted this task to us will show him the exact place." . . . . . . . . . Listen Guil, the secrets of the pyramid will be unraveled before the Universal Judgment is unleashed. Researchers and scientists will realize to their amazement, that events of crucial importance actually occured on the dates marked on the stones. "According to their measurements, they will also find the dates for the beginning and the end of the universal judgment! "The accuracy of these dates indicated in the pyramid will be proof to the researchers, that the dates concerning the beginning and the end of the great judgment must also be correct. The spiritual message lying in the structure of the pyramid will become public knowledge at the right moment, since some of us will be on Earth and it will be easy for us to find the key to decipher the language of the stones." . . . . . . . "Almost everyone, it says in the prediction," observed Horam. "The few who don't yet belong to the dead will be helped! A Savior originating from the utmost heights will come to mankind before the time of the end, in order to help those few who still look towards the Light. If the coming of this Savior had not been planned, there would be only the dead by the time of the coming of the judge of the universe! According to our time division, 4,500 years will pass before the time of the sublime Savior. Our astronomers have indicated this date in the pyramid." . . . . . . . "Each spiritual message expressed in such colossal stone structure shall endure throughout the millennia. Neither renegade kings nor idolatrous priests will be able to change or destroy any of this." . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Isaiah: "Years ago, when I received great message from the Light, I wanted to travel to Kaldi(Chaldea) or to the People of the Sun, who knew the art of writing, so that their wise men or priests could write down this message. Thus, it would not get lost. My inner voice told me to wait. I obeyed and waited. And now, here I am. Neither my wife nor I have the gift of forming writing signs." "Here message can be written down exactly," Sunrid said, to relieve Isaiah's worries about writing. . . "What made us come here immediately when we heard that the construction had begun, was the prophecy of the Ruler of the Universe who will come to unleash the judgment among mankind," Isaiah explained. . . To be continued

Hello all,

General Comment:

When someone is still somewhat new to the Message (months and even years) and the related writings (Past Eras, From Past Millennia, Q&As........etc) and also to the writings by other authors (e.g. R. von Sass)--------it can be over-whelming both intuitively and intellectually. It may help some people to come to conviction if they can find "earthly" or "intellectual earthly" historical accuracy/correlation with the events so described................and the opposite can happen also.

While the principle/idea of "horse before fly or fly before horse vs. deep intuitive understanding of the Message" is valid, one should strive to have patience with those asking such questions as it may just be a reflection of their state of "maturity/consciousness" in/of The Message at that particular point in time and also keep in mind what is stated in the above first paragraph-----such "earthly intellectual" information could actually help one come to conviction.

In brief, let patience and perhaps some good humour be shown towards those making such inquiries as was done by the Son of God, the Apostles and numerous other Called ones and Sent Seers to humanity in the past.

Of course, there is the option of keeping some self-control and just politely ignoring the query as well :-).

Thanks to all for your contributions.

.

Greetings @ all,

Wow! This thread has really been spinning, even a comment or two from M_nwankwo and some new people to the thread.

Thank you all for your comments. I wanted to ask a question and to make a comment on the 'intellectual/intuitive' issue that somehow managed to prop up in the thread but both my question and my comment were accurately put down by Speer, I think he even formed them better than I would have.

Thank you Speer.

I would just like to add a touch here and there both to the question and comment I would have posted if Speer had not put his up.

Question: The world parts, or let me use the term 'universes', going by the assumption that major events (like the incarnation of the Son of God on earth and the Word He brought, also His subsequent murder by us men) resonates to other world parts, I would like to know how it resonates. Using the incarnation of the Son of God as a basis, what I am trying to ask specifically is:

-How did the other world parts get to know of this event? Was it through tidings from the elementals or did this event manifest there in one way or the other?

-Based on the above, do the other world parts also share in the guilt of the murder or is it just us earthmen? Because it is often referred to as the guilt of humanity and since it can be said that human spirits in the other world parts also constitute a part of humanity, do they also share in this guilt?

I guess I should have said 'questions' at the beginning.

I reckon these questions can be answered alongside Speer's questions since they happen to be concerned, in a way, about the same issue.

I find it difficult sometimes to clothe what I feel with words, they rarely seem to do justice to what I'm feeling or trying to express but I sincerely hope that the questions were clear enough and I will be more than willing to expand them if needed.

Now for the comment:

In line with what has been said, I would just like to add that some of us began our journey to the Message through reading whatever we could find, I know I did. I read everything my hands could touch, provided they had an air of spirituality and claimed to answer questions that burned within me, this made me question a lot, too much I was told (it was said that I was asking questions about things that were not my concern) and truth be told, sometimes I was asking questions that were irrelevant to me and irritating to others, most especially those who I asked but it was this constant questioning, this restlessness that pushed me on and on until I came across the TRUTH. And it is still this same restlessness that pushes me on and on to live according to It, to become a human as the Creator ordained for I believe that when rest sets in, that's the beginning of the end for my existence. We must not rest and fold our arms, we must push on and continue to best of our abilities to live according to the Word, that's when we can achieve progress, for we are a long way from home, far from being perfect and all we have is the Word and ourselves for as iron sharpeneth iron so are the effects of each of you on all of us. I know the Greetings of Speer have urged me on when I was starting to get weary, the 'Remain Blessed' by Justcool have made me stand up when I fell and the insightful posts by M_nwankwo have made a day or two brighter when they were looking a tad gloomy.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that no one should be turned away because they are asking incessant questions but answers should be given to those that deserve them and to those that don't, such a person should be shown the way, lovingly, to recognise the futility of such questions. 'Helping love' is what it's called, like a balm, it's both severe to the skin and soothing to the pain.

So much for a touch. Thank you all for your comments, it helps even if you don't think it does. Seeing 'new' at the back of the thread might be all that brightens a person's day so please, don't shy away from posting here including the guests, I think nairaland has enough space for us all.

And to those who might see something to correct me on, I say thank you in advance.

Peace and blessings to you all.

Continued . . . . . . . . . When everyone had sat on benches, Isaiah said: "I am going to reveal the message I received from my spiritual guide, so that you can judge its value. My guide received the message from one above him, who received it from one who is even higher, and so on. In this way, the message was relayed from uttermost heights down to Earth. Listen to the words I heard and see the image, just as I saw it: A Queen came from the highest of all the heavens which have ever been created! She was wrapped in a mantle which resembled the starry sky of our Earth, but She shone brighter and more intensely than the Sun! A crown of stars covered her head! Beside her, surrounded by her radiation, was a boy! He looked like a child. And the Queen in blue radiation called him her son! But I saw how the child grew. HE grew and became a youth whose magnificence I was allowed to see, "IMANUEL" is His name, said the magnificent Queen. And his other names are: Power, Force, Justice, Wisdom, Light, Eternity! And Regent of the Universe! He is the Ruler of the Universe who will come to human beings as Judge! The day of Judgment of humanity is coming closer, so soon their time will be over. The of Judge of the Universe, who is also called Justice, will separate the living from the dead with the Word from his mouth. And there shall be many more dead than living. During this time, which is drawing nearer, most human souls will have withered and faded! And, from the beginning until the end, human beings will worship their own idols! On the day of Judgment, which will come over all human beings, morning and day shall be dark night! But the Universal Judge will indicate a path to his people. It will be the sacred path which leads to Zion, the Homeland of Light!" . . . . . . . . . "My wife Sarai saw all that I had seen and also heard everything I had heard. She hasn't forgotten anything. . . "Then came the day when my guide called me, and said he had another message for me. This message stated the following: A construction is being erected in the land of the Egyptians that will be an exhortation and an altar. It will endure thoughout time until the end of human beings' Judgment! The colossal stone construction is a sign from the Lord of all the Worlds, for it will testify his coming to Earth. The stones speak a powerful language! They will reveal important changes in the course of human fate to whoever can read their language. This construction is a sign and a witness of the Lord of all Worlds, who is at the summit of Creation! He, whose name is Imanuel, will come to Earth to judge mankind! The time can be measured using a rod inside the construction! Whoever wants to know the time of the beginning and the emd of the Last Judgmemt must take a rod and use it to search for the point in time indicated on the stones. He will find it.!" . . "After my guide had finished, my wife and I got down on our knees and praised Imanuel loudly, the Lord of all worlds, the Spirit of Power, the Spirit of Justice, the Spirit of Life, the Spirit of Eternity! And now we have come to see the work and the stones, where there will so much to be read!" (Bible, Isaiah 19v19-21) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . "Isaiah came to see Sunrid so he could make known another message he had received recently and could have it written down." . . "When they were all together, Isaid said: "I shall be reborn on Earth and carry the same name I have today. I shall be an announcer, for the spiritual guides of humanity will transmit a message to mankind through my lips. This message will say: Before the last judgement of mankind, another Envoy will come from the utmost Heights! He will be called Savior and Prince of Peace! He will teach the people and live among them, showing them the paths they must follow, if they want to save themselves! For at that time a great spiritual affliction will reign on Earth! . . . . . . . . This second sublime Prince of Light will live in a country not far from my present homeland. Counting from today, two thirds of the time that separates us from the Judgment will have passed, when this Prince of Light comes to Earth." . . . . . . "We didn't know anything about the coming of this second Savior and Prince of Light," Siptha said thoughtfully. "We knew only about a Princeof Light who will come to the Arabs. This Prince is closely connected to the Lord of all Worlds, the Lord of the Pyramid. It can be said that he is inseparably connected to him! He will live in a region which is now still under the spiritual dominion of Chaldea." Before Isaiah could express his opinion, Jaser said: "All the wise-men of Chaldea received this message about the coming Judgment of humanity. At the same time, they were told about the coming of the Lord of all Worlds, who would unleash this Judgment! Only Sargon and some of the initiated have received the message of the birth on Earth of the second Prince of Light." . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . @justcool, while I can't say with all certainty the above is authentic. You can see that from Roselis accounts Isaiah incarnated twice, first before Abdrushin and later after Him. Like you have rightly said, I too do not have the ability to discredit her work. I can only read them and absorb what us clear and leave what is not till a time such will be clear.

...

Speer:
Hello all,

General Comment:

When someone is still somewhat new to the Message (months and even years) and the related writings (Past Eras, From Past Millennia, Q&As........etc) and also to the writings by other authors (e.g. R. von Sass)--------it can be over-whelming both intuitively and intellectually. It may help some people to come to conviction if they can find "earthly" or "intellectual earthly" historical accuracy/correlation with the events so described................and the opposite can happen also.

While the principle/idea of "horse before fly or fly before horse vs. deep intuitive understanding of the Message" is valid, one should strive to have patience with those asking such questions as it may just be a reflection of their state of "maturity/consciousness" in/of The Message at that particular point in time and also keep in mind what is stated in the above first paragraph-----
In brief, let patience and perhaps some good humour be shown towards those making such inquiries as was done by the Son of God, the Apostles and numerous other Called ones and Sent Seers to humanity in the past.

Of course, there is the option of keeping some self-control and just politely ignoring the query as well :-).

Thanks to all for your contributions.

@Speer what a beautiful post you just shared. Every single sentence you have written is a fact. I so much love it. Thanks brother. I once read a book titled: "The True in Images" where the birth of the Son of God in Bethlehem and birth of the Son of Man in Bifschowerda were mathematically proven. . The author's statement: "All the facts evoked in the book are historically verifiable. The description of monuments,of works of arts, of documents are proven and, the images shown have been carried out with NASA WORLD WIND 2009 software, and this images are on the scale of the Earth, of extreme precision. In a word, the story present The Truth in Images. . . . . . . @Speer, in order words your statement "such "earthly intellectual" information could actually help one come to conviction" is actually correct for many. Hence, the reason I shared the book The True in Images by Gaspard Nesomet

Hello @Marverick09,

Thanks.

Do you know of any more such publications/books like the one mentioned?

Thanks again.

stariobran:
I have been reading the message for while now. I'm not done, in the middle of volume 2. while I have learnt a lot of things that I now apply in my life, I still haven't had the desire to be grail. I still prefer being catholic and reading the bible and sticking by it.
My question is.... would it be possible to marry a grail partner and remain catholic? not being grail because the partner wants you to be but only when you're convinced. I'm not convinced. It's a good book but I still believe more in the bible.

Hello Stariobran, Thank you for your question. I felt your question is important to you, so I decided to air my views.

It is my perception that you view the grail message as a religion, just like Catholicism, buddhism, and others. This however is not the case. The grail message is a proclamation of the universal Truth. It is to be lived and to be experienced for spiritual ascent. It has nothing to do with religion and religious purposes. At the cornerstone of the message are the principles:
-Keep the heart of your thoughts pure.
- Love God and Love your neighbor as yourselves.
- Learn to recognize the laws of God and their workings, and submit to them for true ascent.

It is true that there exist various movements and groups that promote the Book form of the grail message. However, it is not in my sensing compulsory nor required to be member of any of those groups. Hence, You should feel free to stick to whatever belief you are genuinely convinced about. You can remain a catholic, provided you do so with a sincere heart and not out of fear or religious hypocrisy.

Besides, Religion is not relevant for a true Mariage in the sight of God. True mutual love and submission to the laws of God as well as compatibility are. When those basis exist, the union is blessed from the start. You can therefore unite with someone regardless of his or your religious background, as long as True love and submission to the laws of God exist between you. I also don't think any genuine adherent of the Grail message will be bothered by religious considerations as far as mariage is concerned.

These are my perceptions, it is not "gospel truth". You should feel free to reject them, if your intuition is not convinced about their genuineness.

Cheerful greetings.

Speer:

Hello @Marverick09,

Thanks.

Do you know of any more such publications/books like the one mentioned?

Thanks again.

@Speer, for the now I do not have more of such books. However, when I come in contact with any in the future I will be glad to let you know. The one I mentioned above is in two parts. Part one, The True in Images: The Two Brothers and Part Two: The Mystery of the Ring. Found online.

Hello to all.

You may want to know that there are videos/3D animations on youtube made by Gaspard Nesomet on the basis of the book The True in images. The videos are interesting but are in french. Nonetheless it is possible to add English subtitles in the settings.

Thank you Marverick09 for refering to the books. The author has also made it possible to read them free of charge on the internet.

I wish you all strength.

The Spiritual Purpose of the Language

Language is a process of free creation; its laws and principles are fixed, but the manner in which the principles of generation are used is free and infinitely varied. Even the interpretation and use of words involves a process of free creation.
– Noam Chomsky

No doubt we all agree that language is a means of communication, it facilitates our interactions with one another, it is a tool by which we may obtain and spread clarity and enlightenment. But what is the language intended for according to The Laws of Creation? What is its purpose, what does it really help us achieve, why do we need it in order to develop here on Earth?

In our discussions about The Eternal Laws, we constantly spoke about the “karmaic” effects of the thought, word and deed. Everything we think, say and do comes back to us in this life, in the world of the Beyond, or in the next life. Thus, where language plays an obviously important role is in the use of the word, be it in writing or in speech. And also in thought, since we do use “words” to “think”.

But the language of the Spiritual World is not the same as that of this world. In the world of the Beyond, and in the higher spheres, the language, the mode of communication between spirits is not in the word-forms as we find here on Earth today. There everything is more fluid, more mobile, there is a life and vitality beyond anything we can experience here on Earth. It is the language of the intuition, which every spirit, every soul perceives, senses, feels, lives. In these worlds, what is perceived or felt by one spirit towards another immediately takes effect on the other, thus there is no “activity of the intellect” to re-form or completely change the inner feeling such that the outer expression thereof bears a completely different manifestation to this inner feeling. Everything is clear in the Beyond, there can be no falseness, no ambiguity, no concealment of the inmost volition of a human spirit.
This is the world of pictures! All such communication is in pictorial form, not in language form as we know it here. As I have indicated before, this is the manner in which children, who have not yet learned to communicate in language, experience the world! The pictures are the intuition at work.

Hence the difference is clear between this world and the next. In this physical world, we need the intellect because coarse-matter is far too ponderous for this inmost feeling of the spirit to manifest outwardly. Hence there is additional processing required to make known externally the inmost volition of the spirit, i.e. the picture. For the human spirit is veiled within this coarse-material cloak, which latter cannot allow the intuitive vibrations of the soul to manifest in the original, spiritual form without some kind of transformation that adapts them to the nature of coarse-matter. And that is the purpose of the earthly intellect which forms the words that we use in thoughts, in speech and in writing!
But there is one problem with this change in process! Or, to be more specific, the need for this intellect with regards to forming the words becomes a problem when the intellect itself is given an unrestrained lead in doing so. Hence, the intellect takes far too many liberties when transforming the “inner voice of the spirit” into earthly word-forms. Such is the case today, because man has submitted to the intellect instead of taking spiritual control of what the intellect does. As a result, therefore, the words of man, what he speaks, what he writes, what he may even sometimes think, are not in accordance with the deep inner feeling, the intuition, of the spirit-being, atma, his true self!

Hence the purpose of language is clear: it serves to make known to one another the deep inner feelings of the spiritual intuition here on Earth. But there are also different languages spoken on Earth, they have vastly different origins, and often there is no easy or straightforward way to translate from one language to another.
As the language develops, so also do the people who speak it. A language that is of a ponderous nature is spoken by ponderous people. A language that is meant to be merrily and cheerfully spoken is often associated with a childlike and happy people. We can clearly see this in the languages of India. The fast spoken, singsong, bubbly nature of Malayalam, for instance, is quite clearly also a trait of the Malayalee people. The various dialects spoken by people in lower classes, however, which are bereft of the nobility contained in the purer forms of the various languages, also indicates the lack of nobility of the people themselves, and shows the extent to which these people have sunk spiritually. It is also clear that, according to The Creation-Law of Attraction, only similar souls would be attracted into the respective peoples speaking those kinds of languages. From this we can understand the meaning of the expression, “language forms the people”.

For although any individual human being on Earth can contribute to the language that he speaks by introducing new words or phrases or even mannerisms and modes of expression etc., these changes in the language which bring about the so-called “evolution of the language” in turn serve to attract souls from the Beyond whose inner, distinctive natures correspond to the state of the language at the time of their attraction. And in this way, the language literally helps to form the people as a whole in their general traits, mannerisms, modes of expression and even their entire culture.
The union of all the languages across the entire world thus forms a multi-coloured tapestry rich in the various modes of communication it has to offer incarnating souls for their development here on Earth. But each language is also unique, different, despite the similarities that may be found across various groups of languages. Just as a prism diffracts a ray of white light into different colours according to their wavelength, so also the intuition or the inner voice of the spirit is expressed differently in the various languages across the world depending on the nature of the respective language.

The human language is not used in a manner today as was originally intended in our evolution. Our language today is coarse and superficial, lacking any depth of spiritual understanding. More significantly, however, it is also lacking Light-Power. The very concept of this must be strange to many of us. We understand language only as a means of communication. We fail to realise that the human language contains power and vitality and should be used accordingly to spiritualise our surroundings. To spiritualise means to “fill with the spirit”, with our very selves, the innermost core of our beings. But if you observe your conversations today, they are mostly devoid of life. At best, we use the language emotionally, when we show love towards members of the opposite sex or another loved one. That is the noblest use of the language today that we can imagine.
But language contains power when used correctly! It can heal, singe and also destroy. And the healing properties of the language have not yet been recognised.
Special vocal sounds and chants, which were once revealed to us by the Elemental Beings, have the power to bring peace and revitalisation to us. Chanting by itself does not have inner life, and is actually an intellectual activity, not a spiritual activity. But there are specific words and phrases which when uttered from out of the spirit can have a healing effect on the soul and therewith take effect on the coarse-material body of the human being. Ancient India had many of these chants, known as shlokas, which are even today uttered and recited on a daily basis. Unfortunately, however, they are merely rattled off or recited without deep inner feeling. Or they are used in meditations, to cleanse the mind. But they are not chanted from the spirit. It is only the soul of man which can vibrate in accordance with these shlokas. If there is no soul in the chanting, then the chant has no effect, and is merely a waste of power.

The “Aum Shantihi” which concludes the numerous recitations of these shlokas is actually a powerful chant that rises up to the great Devas and Devis who rule all these Worlds of Matter – up until the Trimurti of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. This special phrase contains powers that are intended to bring Peace everywhere (Shantih means Peace). But in many circles these words are uttered meaninglessly. Or they are uttered only with emotion and a good attitude, but not from out of the soul. The soulful vibration is missing today in all these chants.
In Islam the followers greet one another with the beautiful “Assalamu Alaikum”, which means “Peace be unto you”. But here again the greeting has become empty through the empty, superficial and almost thoughtless manner in which people speak to one another. Similar greetings exist in Christianity which are just as empty. The Hindu greeting of “Namaste” or “Namaskar” – which really means, “My spirit, the I within me, greets your spirit, the I within you!” – is so powerful in its effect. But this deep meaning, too, has been forgotten and is not applied in its daily usage.
If the followers of these different faiths could actually utter from out of their souls these beautiful greetings, then there would be only Peace here on the Earth.

The human being of today has forgotten how to speak from his soul. This is something that cannot be taught – it has to be regained. We all have this ability within us, but we have forgotten how to do this, because we have only developed our intellect, the frontal brain, and this has – as a natural consequence – choked off the connection to the soul. Once this happened, the ability to speak from the spirit was cut off, extinguished. A terrible fate!
This in itself has brought in its wake a large number of diseases and other misfortunes. The evil of gossip and rumour-mongering, for instance, is responsible for a large number of respiratory diseases. These respiratory diseases are a karmaic reaction to the wrong use of the speech. The misuse of the speech is thereby impaired or reduced by these respiratory diseases. But with the proper use of the language, in conjunction with a more natural form of breathing, many of these respiratory issues will disappear over time. Of course, not all respiratory reactions are due to the misuse of language, but this example should give you an indication of how Karma can work here.
To speak from the soul means simply this: to allow those living pictures from the soul to take form first, clothing themselves in words only thereafter. The intuition of the human being or the “inner voice” expresses itself in pictures. Only when the picture arises first and the words form second does the speech itself come from the soul. But if the words form first and the picture second, then you can be sure that the speech developed only in the frontal brain. The former is filled with life and spirituality and the latter is empty and meaningless. Consequently, if I say to you “Peace be with you” and have thought of the words first, then I have not spoken from out of my spirit. But if the picture arises first from my spirit, whereby a great volition wells up within me, wishing you purest and deepest peace, and if I only then utter the words “Peace be with you”, then you can be sure that the Peace of the Spirit is flowing from Above to you, riding the waves of pure light generated by my inner volition and the words thus formed.

Hence let us all recognise the spiritual purpose of the language in making perceptible in this physical world the true pictures of the spirit, the inner voice and intuition. Let us always speak in a heartfelt manner, from out of the soul. Let pictures arise within you, and only then let the words take on form, naturally and without any forceful compulsion. The practice of this over time will lead to a great spiritual purification of our languages in the world.

copyright www.sphatik.com

Speer:
...

Very Inspiring.