ijawkid: @logic boy...

All what u said is sh**t.....

I want u to evolve,dnt get old and die...

Bypass old age and death,just keep evolving....
.....

My problem isn't monkey this ,monkey that,bing bang foolish theory...

My main concern is how would we stop getting old?

Let ur scientist stop old age and death...

I bet ur gods have always asked that question until old age and death swept them all away....
""Dust they were and dust they returned to""
U talk like d america or where ever u stay is a perfect place....
U talk like there's zero injustice in d western world because u now have atheists all over d place
Racism still continues to destroy mankind.....



what about pestilences

Don't u fools over there suffer d same as we do

Don't d westerners die??

Your main concern is immortality because of your stupid christian doctrine of life after death/everlasting life in heaven. Immortality is not perfect. Immortality means that you will not take life seriously. You will take life slowly because you have all the time in the world.

Why not focus your concern on people around you? Why not be a humanist like some of your atheist brethren.



USA and Europe are not perfect. However, the try to be good for their citizens. If you noticed my previous comment, I actually siad that they have problems;

logicboy:

You sir, are why people look down on blacks and Nigerians. You keep thinking about an afterlife for which no proof exists instead of looking how to improve your life and the lives of others around you. The British people who brought christianity to Nigeria are not even as christian as Nigeria. Britain is a secular country with about 20% atheists. The have separation of church and state. They also have a society that always looks to solve the problems they have. There is discussion on how to tackle problems like unemployment and govt excesses.

The have problems but they are willing to tackle it. Churches in America get investigated. People actually criticise fake men of God in America without fear in America- they expose gay pastors, expose the coverups of the catholic church etc.....Try this in Nigeria as if the politicans and masses who follow this men of God wont Oyedepo-Slap you to death.

There is unemployment in Europe and USA and you can see the politicans harassed to solved the problem by the masses and the media. The politicians are running helter skelter to find solutions that will ease the masses. Their countries aint perfect but they try to solve their problems.


You talk about racism but let's be honest, I have recieved racism from whites, Asians, Arabs etc. However, today, the most racist thing that has happened to me is by my own Nigerian brethren. I have Yoruba people who treated me as an illiterate because i did not speak their language- tribalism when the official language is English in Nigeria. In the UK today, no white/asian/black man will slap me for questioning his authority in a calm manner. Policemen, soldiers and ploticians will slap you or beat you in Nigeria if you ever question their authority. Oyedepo is one of those slappers.

In my own country, in Lagos, I have seen a white man order a policeman to beat a black young man because the youngman was talking to his girlfriend. The girlfriend was even an alleged prostitute that knew the young man. Can that happen in Europe or America? Will a white policeman ever beat a fellow white man on the orders of a black man

This is not to say that Nigerians are idiots. There are millions of Nigerians that are civilized and see the problem of religion and freedom. The problem is that they are an absolute minority

vedaxcool: Threads like this are proof enough why atheism is just another delusion the devil successfully foisted upon mankind, when some one becomes an atheist so that whitemen would look down upon him is evidently laughable, Italo I am compelled to say your points are very cogent and shows more logic that some pretend to have.

thanks.

He thinks that being an Atheist is equivalent to being smart and civilized...and believing in God means you're dumb and crude.

Such poor and immature reasoning.

logicboy:
You believe that Italo's points are very cogent? Here is a summary of his points;

-Evolution has not been proven (Fossils, current human evolution, observable evolution in animals all exist)

All these are no proof that I evolved from a fish! The Theory of Evolution remains a THEORY. It might contain facts, but it might also contain fallacies.

-God has been proven (No physical proof of God exists)

There are physical proofs. You just don't accept them. Billions of other people accept them.

-Facts are not always true

Yes! Perhaps I should have typed: "facts" as many people see it, are not always true. Who determines what is a "fact"? Human beings...and humans beings can be dubious and are imperfect. There are many historical and scientific "facts" that have later been found to be false.

-He tried to argue that I havent seen a fossil out of ignorance about science museums.

I never argued that you hadn't seen a fossil, liar. I only asked if you had seen one. You call everyone else "ignorant" but you cant spot the difference between the two. And the fact that there are science museums doesn't mean that you have visited one.

logicboy:

Your main concern is immortality because of your stupid christian doctrine of life after death/everlasting life in heaven. Immortality is not perfect. Immortality means that you will not take life seriously. You will take life slowly because you have all the time in the world.

Why not focus your concern on people around you? Why not be a humanist like some of your atheist brethren.



USA and Europe are not perfect. However, the try to be good for their citizens. If you noticed my previous comment, I actually siad that they have problems;




The have problems but they are willing to tackle it. Churches in America get investigated. People actually criticise fake men of God in America without fear in America- they expose gay pastors, expose the coverups of the catholic church etc.....Try this in Nigeria as if the politicans and masses who follow this men of God wont Oyedepo-Slap you to death.

There is unemployment in Europe and USA and you can see the politicans harassed to solved the problem by the masses and the media. The politicians are running helter skelter to find solutions that will ease the masses. Their countries aint perfect but they try to solve their problems.


You talk about racism but let's be honest, I have recieved racism from whites, Asians, Arabs etc. However, today, the most racist thing that has happened to me is by my own Nigerian brethren. I have Yoruba people who treated me as an illiterate because i did not speak their language- tribalism when the official language is English in Nigeria. In the UK today, no white/asian/black man will slap me for questioning his authority in a calm manner. Policemen, soldiers and ploticians will slap you or beat you in Nigeria if you ever question their authority. Oyedepo is one of those slappers.

In my own country, in Lagos, I have seen a white man order a policeman to beat a black young man because the youngman was talking to his girlfriend. The girlfriend was even an alleged prostitute that knew the young man. Can that happen in Europe or America? Will a white policeman ever beat a fellow white man on the orders of a black man

This is not to say that Nigerians are idiots. There are millions of Nigerians that are civilized and see the problem of religion and freedom. The problem is that they are an absolute minority

I apologize for those folks for treating you like that. I hear nonsense like that is prevalent over there.
As for that policeman debacle, it happens. It is so shameful. They believe anything white is automatically superior to them. Can't blame them really. The brainwashing was brutal. Religions plays the most damaging role. They have as their saviour, anything not black skinned. They proudly decorate their living rooms with the source of their own mental slavery. Anything foreign(including but not limited to religion) is regarded as authentic. Instead of us to reform our culture, expunge regressive aspects of tradition and make our life better. Sadly, they will believe poverty here is necessary for affluence after death. Whoever came up with the concept of religion did a really devastating destruction to our people. Its so sad. I feel so depressed right now.

It is so amusing that religionists here exhibit a willful ignorance of what evolution is. Evolution depend mainly on the environment. That is natural selection. Any species that cannot cope with a changing environment will die off(directional selection) until a stabilised environment happens.(Stabilizing selection). The key thing is efficiency. If dumbness/stupidity is required to survive a hostile environment, 20 generations later, everyone will be dumb. Any smart guy may not even live beyond infancy. This is an example, it is way more complicated with than that.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote author=ijawkid]@logic boy...

All what u said is sh**t.....

I want u to evolve,dnt get old and die...

Bypass old age and death,just keep evolving....
.....

My problem isn't monkey this ,monkey that,bing bang foolish theory...

My main concern is how would we stop getting old?

Let ur scientist stop old age and death...

I bet ur gods have always asked that question until old age and death swept them all away....
""Dust they were and dust they returned to""
U talk like d america or where ever u stay is a perfect place....
U talk like there's zero injustice in d western world because u now have atheists all over d place
Racism still continues to destroy mankind.....



what about pestilences

Don't u fools over there suffer d same as we do

Don't d westerners die??
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The hypocritical stance of religionists. What will you contribute to the scientific research on immortality? I was reading a thread about some russian guy investing and funding some kind of longevity/immortality research/experiments in america. The sort of responses I was seeing could depress Einstein. Mere hundred years ago, nobody could have guessed we will be this advanced. Few hundred years from now, people in that time will look at us as primitive( if Iran-Israel didn't wipe us out,another religious conflict).
We can stop old age. Its a matter of time. We just need to somehow reduce/stop the shortening of telomeres during cell division(no easy task) and bang, we have immortality/no old age.
Humans will continue to have problems. The point is we must strive to solve those problems, and not partake in a fairytale thinking that some perfect place exist when you die. Give up such thoughts and make this place your heaven!

italo:



He thinks that being an Atheist is equivalent to being smart and civilized...and believing in God means you're dumb and crude.

Such poor and immature reasoning.

Lies. When did I say that Atheist = Smart/civilized? Show me where I made that statement. You are suffering from inferiority complex and that is why you feel that atheists are smarter than you. Go and read some books on evolution
You like Vedaxcool now, you should see what he says about christians.

italo:


I never argued that you hadn't seen a fossil, liar. I only asked if you had seen one. You call everyone else "ignorant" but you cant spot the difference between the two. And the fact that there are science museums doesn't mean that you have visited one.

Lies, you ignorantly assumed that I have never seen a fossil because you were projecting your sad life on me in which you have never been to a science museum to see fossils.

Here is your quote;

italo:


Its you who is most ignorant. You have never seen or touched a fossil, have you? So going by you method of testing for evidence, its safe to say you know nothing about them. Unless you are basing your argument on FAITH in what scientists say... Are you?

Furthermore, there are 2 things I would like to repeat

1) There is enough proof of evolution
2) There is no single proof of God not one. You can prove the existence of a spiritual being and that is why it is called "faith". It seems that you have never heard the arguments against your cause.

Double post

Double post

logicboy:
Lies. When did I say that Atheist = Smart/civilized? Show me where I made that statement. You are suffering from inferiority complex and that is why you feel that atheists are smarter than you. Go and read some books on evolution
You like Vedaxcool now, you should see what he says about christians.

Nowhere did I say that you SAID so. I said you THINK so. How is it that you do not know the difference between these two simple words. Or am I right in thinking that you don't even THINK in the first place? And where did I say I LIKE Vedaxcool? I am beginning to think that you're mentally ill... Even if Vedaxcool says nasty things about Christianity, it doesn't mean I should hate or dislike him. I can only, at the worst, hate or dislike his comment. And when he says things that I agree with, I can like his comment. I don't even hate you. What I feel for you is pity. How can I feel inferior to one who doesn't even know the difference between "SAY" and "THINK"? I'm not also mad.

logicboy: Lies, you ignorantly assumed that I have never seen a fossil because you were projecting your sad life on me in which you have never been to a science museum to see fossils.

Yes, I assumed. But assumption is not a bad thing and it is not compatible with certainty. You cannot "assume" when you are "certain", and if you are not certain of something, then I think, you are ignorant of it. So to say that I "ignorantly assumed" is tautology to me. And if you look again at my post, perhaps this time in your 5mins of sanity, you will notice a question mark...which means, I only asked a QUESTION, afterall. And, yes! I have never been to a science museum. What's the problem in that? I can't go everywhere and see everything and neither can anyone else. I'm sure I've been to places you'll never see, but what does it matter. Besides, the fact that you SAY you've been to a science museum doesn't mean you've been there. There's no proof of it.

logicboy: Furthermore, there are 2 things I would like to repeat

1) There is enough proof of evolution

Then go ahead and prove to me that you evolved from a fish.

[quote author=logicboy]2) There is no single proof of God not one. You can prove the existence of a spiritual being and that is why it is called "faith". It seems that you have never heard the arguments against your cause.

So you know that God is a spiritual being. And that you can't prove the existence of a spiritual being. Good.

1. What is a spiritual being and how did you come to the conclusion that God is one.

2. How did you come to the conclusion that you can't prove the existence of a spiritual being?

Avicenna:
I apologize for those folks for treating you like that. I hear nonsense like that is prevalent over there.
As for that policeman debacle, it happens. It is so shameful. They believe anything white is automatically superior to them. Can't blame them really. The brainwashing was brutal. Religions plays the most damaging role. They have as their saviour, anything not black skinned. They proudly decorate their living rooms with the source of their own mental slavery. Anything foreign(including but not limited to religion) is regarded as authentic. Instead of us to reform our culture, expunge regressive aspects of tradition and make our life better. Sadly, they will believe poverty here is necessary for affluence after death. Whoever came up with the concept of religion did a really devastating destruction to our people. Its so sad. I feel so depressed right now.

Dont worry, there are Nigerians that still behave with common sense. Where there is life, there is hope.

logicboy:

Lies. When did I say that Atheist = Smart/civilized? Show me where I made that statement. You are suffering from inferiority complex and that is why you feel that atheists are smarter than you. Go and read some books on evolution
You like Vedaxcool now, you should see what he says about christians.

Lol. why do you always feel extremely pained whenever one agrees to opinions you do not like? I am beginning to see what bugzeee meant when he said u r rebelling not a real atheist. As how can anybody who claims to be rational interpret italo's opinion on a statement to be an expression of likeness for the person who made such a statement? Is this the sense you want to spread to other Africans whom u despise for believing in God? Do you think your thoughts resulting from the poor use of your incredibly weak and squalid intellect can serve as wisdom to we Africans? I suggest you ask urself serious questions on why you are an atheist and whether you know what you are doing as a person, cause from your post I see pains that emanate from a heart that is rebelling not one who has taken time to establish a rational basis for choosing the delusions of atheism. You may feel free to accuse me of wanting to destroy christians and christianity after all you called me racist for exposing you as a hypocrite so ur tactics are not new to me, it is low behavior like these that makes you case one of a "man" who is angry at the world and have chosen to behave like a rebelling teenager to vent his spline.

italo:

Nowhere did I say that you SAID so. I said you THINK so. How is it that you do not know the difference between these two simple words. Or am I right in thinking that you don't even THINK in the first place? And where did I say I LIKE Vedaxcool? I am beginning to think that you're mentally ill... Even if Vedaxcool says nasty things about Christianity, it doesn't mean I should hate or dislike him. I can only, at the worst, hate or dislike his comment. And when he says things that I agree with, I can like his comment. I don't even hate you. What I feel for you is pity. How can I feel inferior to one who doesn't even know the difference between "SAY" and "THINK"? I'm not also mad.



Yes, I assumed. But assumption is not a bad thing and it is not compatible with certainty. You cannot "assume" when you are "certain", and if you are not certain of something, then I think, you are ignorant of it. So to say that I "ignorantly assumed" is tautology to me. And if you look again at my post, perhaps this time in your 5mins of sanity, you will notice a question mark...which means, I only asked a QUESTION, afterall. And, yes! I have never been to a science museum. What's the problem in that? I can't go everywhere and see everything and neither can anyone else. I'm sure I've been to places you'll never see, but what does it matter. Besides, the fact that you SAY you've been to a science museum doesn't mean you've been there. There's no proof of it.

1) Spiritual beings do not exist. Calling God a spiritual being does not make him any more real than a tooth fairy

2) All animals have a universal common ancestor. We came from single celled organisms. Repeated speciation and anagenisis created the diversity of life we have here. Scientists, unlike religious folks, do not claim that they know everything. Scientists do not know the exact method of how these single celled orgamisms appeared (There are ideas on that). However, we know that we came from single celled organisms from shared sets of biochemical and morphological traits (DNA) between animals. The closer the species or common ancestor, the more similar the traits are between animals. It simply means that the diversity in traits like dna become less similar as go back in time between different species to a basic single celled organism.


Please read more;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution

vedaxcool:

Lol. why do you always feel extremely pained whenever one agrees to opinions you do not like? I am beginning to see what bugzeee meant when he said u r rebelling not a real atheist. As how can anybody who claims to be rational interpret italo's opinion on a statement to be an expression of likeness for the person who made such a statement? Is this the sense you want to spread to other Africans whom u despise for believing in God? Do you think your thoughts resulting from the poor use of your incredibly weak and squalid intellect can serve as wisdom to we Africans? I suggest you ask urself serious questions on why you are an atheist and whether you know what you are doing as a person, cause from your post I see pains that emanate from a heart that is rebelling not one who has taken time to establish a rational basis for choosing the delusions of atheism. You may feel free to accuse me of wanting to destroy christians and christianity after all you called me racist for exposing you as a hypocrite so ur tactics are not new to me, it is low behavior like these that makes you case one of a "man" who is angry at the world and have chosen to behave like a rebelling teenager to vent his spline.

You want to talk about character?

1) You call yourself muslim, yet you insult like a football hooligan. Where is your morality that mslims/Islam boast about?

2) I prefer Africans to believe in African Gods rather than foreign Muslim and Christian Gods. Islam too came with slavery to Nigeria. Did you forget that?
Is slavery Haraam in Islam? No. Not haraam. Slavery is regulated by the Koran. t even tells you about sex with female slaves. Notice the sexism here; why is sex with males slaves not addressed?

3) I am not a rebel.I am an atheist

4) Yes, I get frustrated at the stupidity of my brethren. I am Nigerian and I weep for my country. I live in near-paradise in UK, while my brethren in Nigeria hunger. More than half of Nigeria is in poverty and we are building churches and mosques anyhow. The UK has its problems but at least, they try to tackle it.
There is poverty and unemployment but it is difficult for our senate to pass minimum wage bills they must fight for months before even making any step. However, when it came to gay rights, the quickly and unanimously made an anit-gay rights law, imprisoning any gay person or supporter for 14 years

logicboy:


You want to talk about character?

1) You call yourself muslim, yet you insult like a football hooligan. Where is your morality that mslims/Islam boast about?

2) I prefer Africans to believe in African Gods rather than foreign Muslim and Christian Gods. Islam too came with slavery to Nigeria. Did you forget that?
Is slavery Haraam in Islam? No. Not haraam. Slavery is regulated by the Koran. t even tells you about sex with female slaves. Notice the sexism here; why is sex with males slaves not addressed?

3) I am not a rebel.I am an atheist

4) Yes, I get frustrated at the stupidity of my brethren. I am Nigerian and I weep for my country. I live in near-paradise in UK, while my brethren in Nigeria hunger. More than half of Nigeria is in poverty and we are building churches and mosques anyhow. The UK has its problems but at least, they try to tackle it.
There is poverty and unemployment but it is difficult for our senate to pass minimum wage bills they must fight for months before even making any step. However, when it came to gay rights, the quickly and unanimously made an anit-gay rights law, imprisoning any gay person or supporter for 14 years

Load of rubbish! Thanks for validating all I said about you, perhaps if you could notice all u said DID NOT address what I wrote.
Keep up the outpouring of your frustrations and anger coming from your rebellious mood. Such screams hardly makes any more sense than an ostrich hiding its head in the sand to avoid its enemies.

Your condition is symptomatic of the case of a woman who decides to unclouth herself in public to disgrace her husband , we know who ends up being disgraced. Lol

Avicenna:
Mere hundred years ago, nobody could have guessed we will be this advanced. Few hundred years from now, people in that time will look at us as primitive( if Iran-Israel didn't wipe us out,another religious conflict).

Sam Harris noted in his book, End of Faith, "it seems that if our species ever eradicates itself through war, it will not be because it was written in the stars but because it was written in our holy books; it is what we do with words like "God" and "infidel" "paradise" and "sin" in the present that will determine our future."

Looking at our history, i have a very strong conviction that human species will one day in the distant future become extinct like the dinosaurs, due to this big problem of religion. e.g. there is a probability of Amerca-Israel vs Iran-Arabian conflict escalating into major nuclear war. i hope mankind will wake up from the illusion of the afterlife and face the truth of the only life they are privileged to posses

vedaxcool:

Load of rubbish! Thanks for validating all I said about you, perhaps if you could notice all u said DID NOT address what I wrote.
Keep up the outpouring of your frustrations and anger coming from your rebellious mood. Such screams hardly makes any more sense than an ostrich hiding its head in the sand to avoid its enemies.

Your condition is symptomatic of the case of a woman who decides to unclouth herself in public to disgrace her husband , we know who ends up being disgraced. Lol

Validating what??

I explained to you why sometimes my comments seem full of anger. I also told you that I am not a rebel. Yet, you say that I didnt address your comment

Or could it be that you're ashamed because I told the truth about your slave religion? Yes

1) Spiritual beings do not exist. Calling God a spiritual being does not make him any more real than a tooth fairy

2) All animals have a universal common ancestor. We came from single celled organisms. Repeated speciation and anagenisis created the diversity of life we have here. Scientists, unlike religious folks, do not claim that they know everything. Scientists do not know the exact method of how these single celled orgamisms appeared (There are ideas on that). However, we know that we came from single celled organisms from shared sets of biochemical and morphological traits (DNA) between animals. The closer the species or common ancestor, the more similar the traits are between animals. It simply means that the diversity in traits like dna become less similar as go back in time between different species to a basic single celled organism.


Please read more;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution


[/quote]

Atheist! Is this what you call "concrete evidence" that you evolved from a fish?

I ask for evidence that a theory is true and what do you do?

You practically state out the theory.

Italo: what's the evidence that there is a brain in your miserable skull?

Logicboy: there is a brain in my miserable skull.

How does that sound?

Really dumb.

And which "religious folk" ever claimed to know everything?

Or have you resorted again to shameful lies?

italo: 1) Spiritual beings do not exist. Calling God a spiritual being does not make him any more real than a tooth fairy

2) All animals have a universal common ancestor. We came from single celled organisms. Repeated speciation and anagenisis created the diversity of life we have here. Scientists, unlike religious folks, do not claim that they know everything. Scientists do not know the exact method of how these single celled orgamisms appeared (There are ideas on that). However, we know that we came from single celled organisms from shared sets of biochemical and morphological traits (DNA) between animals. The closer the species or common ancestor, the more similar the traits are between animals. It simply means that the diversity in traits like dna become less similar as go back in time between different species to a basic single celled organism.


Please read more;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution




Atheist! Is this what you call "concrete evidence" that you evolved from a fish?

I ask for evidence that a theory is true and what do you do?

You practically state out the theory.

Italo: what's the evidence that there is a brain in your miserable skull?

Logicboy: there is a brain in my miserable skull.

How does that sound?

Really dumb.

And which "religious folk" ever claimed to know everything?

Or have you resorted again to shameful lies?

Wow,the ignorance is strong with this one.



I rest my case, lord knows I tried

Yes. The LORD knows you tried to argue against his existence...but failed as should be expected.

he didn't fail, but some people will never change their long held beliefs based on their Bible or Quran, no matter the contrary evidence that proves them wrong. maybe because they dont want to offend their God that will send them to hell for not believing the holy book.

cyrexx: he didn't fail, but some people will never change their long held beliefs based on their Bible or Quran, no matter the contrary evidence that proves them wrong. maybe because they dont want to offend their God that will send them to hell for not believing the holy book.

He failed to provide concrete evidence for the theory of evolution or the alleged non-existence of God. And even if the theory is entirely true, its not contrary to my faith and not a proof that God doesn't exist.

italo:

He failed to provide concrete evidence for the theory of evolution or the alleged non-existence of God. And even if the theory is entirely true, its not contrary to my faith and not a proof that God doesn't exist.

Anyone with common sense would see that I clearly explained the theory behind evolution and why scientists conclude that we came from single celled organisms.

You completely ignored it and went on saying some ignorant things.

italo:

He failed to provide concrete evidence for the theory of evolution or the alleged non-existence of God. And even if the theory is entirely true, its not contrary to my faith and not a proof that God doesn't exist.

you missed it, you cant prove a negative. God is non-existent needs no proof. it is you who says he exists that you need to prove he exists. for example. i cant prove that I am not seeing you now. but if i see you now as you are typing, then i can prove that i see you. bring forth your proofs that shows that God exists.

as for the theory of evolution, it provides a better explanation than the creation story. you cant prove a creation story either. your attempt to squash evolution theory does not prove the creation story

cyrexx:
you missed it, you cant prove a negative. God is non-existent needs no proof. it is you who says he exists that you need to prove he exists. for example. i cant prove that I am not seeing you now. but if i see you now as you are typing, then i can prove that i see you. bring forth your proofs that shows that God exists.

What do you mean "you can't prove a negative"? You CAN prove a negative! You can prove that you're not seeing me now by providing evidence (e.g pictures and videos) that show that, right now, I'm in a place that is out of your line of sight, from where you are right now, and you are not using any gadget (e.g a webcam) that is capable of helping you view me without me being directly in your line of sight.

I usually don't go around, telling Atheists that God exists or telling Muslims that Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life. I only defend those truths when it is attacked by falsehood. I really don't care much about what Atheists say or think, because i know that they don't really want proof of God's "non-existence": no matter the proof you give, they'll usually not accept, at least not in public.

cyrexx: as for the theory of evolution, it provides a better explanation than the creation story. you cant prove a creation story either. your attempt to squash evolution theory does not prove the creation story

Firstly, I don't think the evolution theory is incompatible with the Bible's account of creation so I am not trying to squash anything. I am largely indifferent about evolution. I think there might be some truth to some of its propositions, but there might also be some fallacies.

Secondly; all I've been trying to do is not to prove the creation story. I have been trying to prove that: the premise that something doesn't exist if you cannot provide concrete scientific evidence is flawed. Atheists only hypocritically apply it when they are "seeking" proof of God. There's no way to provide concrete scientific evidence that a person did or did not dream, for instance, but Atheists, like the rest of us believe in dreams. There's also no way to provide concrete scientific evidence that a person loves or does not love his/her country but Atheists, like the rest of us believe that people do love their countries. They claim that religious people only believe what they have been told by their leaders but that is the same thing Atheists do.

So since logicboy is arguing against that I've been asking him for evidence - NOT explanation - of some of the things that he believes. He has provided none. I have also shown to him that he believes many things, not because he has SEEN or TOUCHED concrete evidence of them, but because scientists have SAID they have evidence and he BELIEVES his 'religious leaders'.

Now do you want to prove - NOT EXPLAIN - some of these things or do you accept that we can be sure that something exists without having concrete scientific evidence of it.

logicboy:
Anyone with common sense would see that I clearly explained the theory behind evolution and why scientists conclude that we came from single celled organisms.

You completely ignored it and went on saying some ignorant things.

Mr man, what is your problem! I thought you said you had rested your case.

Besides, I didn't ask you to explain and just tell me why scientists conclude what they conclude. Religious people can also explain faith and the existence of God to you and tell you how religious leaders conclude on the existence of God but you wouldn't really take it as evidence, would you? You want to shake God's hand. Perhaps, you only came to believe the evolution theory after seeing a video of a single-celled organism evolving into the human specie over billions of years. Show me that video or some equally strong evidence. If you cannot, shut up and watch cyrexx help you out.

italo:




Firstly, I don't think the evolution theory is incompatible with the Bible's account of creation so I am not trying to squash anything. I am largely indifferent about evolution. I think there might be some truth to some of its propositions, but there might also be some fallacies.

Secondly; all I've been trying to do is not to prove the creation story. I have been trying to prove that: the premise that something doesn't exist if you cannot provide concrete scientific evidence is flawed. Atheists only hypocritically apply it when they are "seeking" proof of God. There's no way to provide concrete scientific evidence that a person did or did not dream, for instance, but Atheists, like the rest of us believe in dreams. There's also no way to provide concrete scientific evidence that a person loves or does not love his/her country but Atheists, like the rest of us believe that people do love their countries. They claim that religious people only believe what they have been told by their leaders but that is the same thing Atheists do.

So since logicboy is arguing against that I've been asking him for evidence - NOT explanation - of some of the things that he believes. He has provided none. I have also shown to him that he believes many things, not because he has SEEN or TOUCHED concrete evidence of them, but because scientists have SAID they have evidence and he BELIEVES his 'religious leaders'.

Now do you want to prove - NOT EXPLAIN - some of these things or do you accept that we can be sure that something exists without having concrete scientific evidence of it.

If I say that you are stupid, you will sat that i am insulting you. 'm sure that it is out of stupidity that you only talked about seeing and touching? You cant feel, smell, taste or hear? Did I only say concrete scientific evidence? You have started lying again. If I can see something, do I need scientific evidence for it? Remember that I aid that if I can see it or feel it or touch it or there is evidence for it.

Can you feel love? Do you get erections? do you hug? Do you do some actions that people do when you're in love? Are there not patriotic acts?

As for dreaming, we all dream. Do we not see our dreams? I can see my dream. End of story.


You have to lie to prove your points.

Concrete evidence for evolution is in our DNA. You chose to remain ignorant. Let's see you lie your way out of this

logicboy:
If I say that you are stupid, you will sat that i am insulting you. 'm sure that it is out of stupidity that you only talked about seeing and touching? You cant feel, smell, taste or hear? Did I only say concrete scientific evidence? You have started lying again. If I can see something, do I need scientific evidence for it? Remember that I aid that if I can see it or feel it or touch it or there is evidence for it.

Little kid. Seeing, feeling, smelling, hearing and tasting are all parts of the ways to obtain scientific evidence.

logicboy:
Can you feel love? Do you get erections? do you hug? Do you do some actions that people do when you're in love? Are there not patriotic acts?

Like I said before, one who is not in love can do all these things. People can even do something seemingly 'patriotic' only because of the recognition, fame or money that they'd get from it. That is not necessarily love. Whatever actions people do when in love, they can do when NOT in love. So they are not EVIDENCES of love.

logicboy:
As for dreaming, we all dream. Do we not see our dreams? I can see my dream. End of story.

Its Good you know that we can SEE WITHOUT OUR EYES. I see GOD. End of story.

logicboy:
You have to lie to prove your points.

Where is the LIE? You should spend more time on a dictionary than on forums.

logicboy:
Concrete evidence for evolution is in our DNA. You chose to remain ignorant. Let's see you lie your way out of this

An indication of "evolution." NOT concrete evidence.

italo:

Little kid. Seeing, feeling, smelling, hearing and tasting are all parts of the ways to obtain scientific evidence.

Notice the bold. Feeling or touching is not scientific evidence itself. That is the point.

italo:
Like I said before, one who is not in love can do all these things. People can even do something seemingly 'patriotic' only because of the recognition, fame or money that they'd get from it. That is not necessarily love. Whatever actions people do when in love, they can do when NOT in love. So they are not EVIDENCES of love.

Love is not defined by one action it is by actions. One who has no love (mother and child example) will not raise and a train a child for 18 years with good parenting such as teaching the child manners, feeding the child, taking the child to school. A couple who is not in love can not be happily married for over 5 years. One of the reasons that European countries wait for 5 years before giving passports to a spouse of a citizen. Love is consistent and based on a vriety of actions over time.

Ouch....did I just destroy your fallacious claims?

italo:
Its Good you know that we can SEE WITHOUT OUR EYES. I see GOD. End of story.

I can describe my dream. Can you describe God? What is his/her skin colour? Is he/she tall?

Furthermore, dreams are a collection of random memories. We have seen what we have dream about with our eyes, we are just imagining it, sometimes in a different form.

If I told you to visualize a woman without an eye and a nose, you would be able to do that becuase you have seen a woman and you have seen people lose their body parts. Your mind can visualise this. Your memory helps you to do this.

If I told you to visualize "akan", you wouldnt be able to because you dont know what it is. No memory, nothing.

If I told you to visulize an alien, you would be able to. Your memory works- you have seen an alien in movies.

If I told you to visualize the alien in stage six of Dark sector, you would be able to. However, your alien would not be much different from the alien served up by your memory because you have probably never seen stage six of Dark Sector.


Wow, I am just too smart, ah? I have no science degree by the way

italo:
Where is the LIE? You should spend more time on a dictionary than on forums.

The only way to keep believing in the failed bible with talking snakes and rib-women is to lie to yourself that they were real. To deny that evolution is logical. To lie to yourself that you know that God exists. To lie to yourself that God is protecting you but ignoring those who died of slavery, hunger, genocide etc

italo:
An indication of "evolution." NOT concrete evidence.

You see a wet guy. You know the guy to involved with water.

You see adaptation, fossils, current evolution, DNA similarities, speciation and the changing biology of human beings. ou know that animal are involved in evolution.

italo:

Religious people can also explain faith and the existence of God to you and tell you how religious leaders conclude on the existence of God

dear italo,
can you kindly give me several VALID reasons why you believe God exists in a way that will convince an open-minded free thinker like me without quoting bible (because mankind wont has believed God exists if not for religion and holy books).

let me start by telling you why I rejected the possibilty of God's existence, you can then state your own reason for your belief.

1. God (if he exists) hides himself from mankind. why is it that it is religions and holy books who has to describe him and defend him (in the case of Islam, fight and kill for him) every time. it shouldn't cost an almighty anything to manifest his existence to unbelievers in a convincing way to dispel honest doubts, believe me, all of us atheists will switch camp quickly if he does this. the fact that he hides behind ancient religions and holy books is a valid reason to question his existence.

2. If God is all powerful as stated in the holy books, and he created the world all by himself as a perfect god, then why do earthquakes, tsunamis and tornados and other natural disasters kill and maim thousands yearly? An all powerful being would surely be able to harness the earth that he created and make it work perfectly like a good manufacturer would have done with his gadget. for me this a valid reason to question his existence

3. every religion claim they have the true God. Which of all their Gods does not exist? can you prove Allah or Jehovah or Vishnu or Obatala or Thor or Zeus is the fake or real. Numerous religions, numerous powerful beings but which is real? If God existed it is reasonable to believe that he would be the ONLY ONE we would worship. There would be no other religion or entity. an almighty should be able to prevent his identity theft and spare us the pain of trying to determine his existence.

4. The basis of any religion (thus the belief of God's existence) is that you must believe something someone else tells you is true, even though your mind tells you might be untrue and it makes no sense. it is only a brainwashed mind that will accept this form of knowledge, which is incidentally how we know that god exists

5. outside of the mind of religionists, i personally have not found god anywhere else, Allah only exists in the mind of muslims, Jehovah exists only in the mind of Christians etc.

6. most of the phenomena we are attributing to god is now being explained rationally. e.g. our fore fathers believed diseases was caused by the gods, now we know that it just germs, so we can conclude that every strange phenomenon we attribute as god's works today will one day be explained rationally by man,

7. i found out personnally that the major reasons religionists believe their holy book is due to the fear of eternal hell if they dare to question the holy books statement (e.g. christians MUST believe Jesus is the only Lord and Saviour or they go to hell forever). believe me, if you remove eternal punishment from religions, nobody will believe their fairy tales. but as a free thinker i have freed my mind from this fear of hell and afterlife, so i dont need to believe the holy books out of fear.


i believe you now understand some of the reasons i rejected the idea of an entity called God.

now can you clearly state in a plain language why you are convinced that God exists

A true free thinker will not depend on somebody else and will not need somebody else to prove the existence or non-existence of God.

Enigma: A true free thinker will not depend on somebody else and will not need somebody else to prove the existence or non-existence of God.

my friend,
this is a debate going on. Have you been following this thread from the beginning or you just want to attack my person instead of contributing to this thread.

^^^ I have not attacked your person. All I have done is to make a factually accurate statement which I repeat: a true free thinker does not need anyone to prove the existence or non-existence of God to him.

Let me put it in another and perhaps simpler way: a true free thinker can believe in God and be a Christian, for example.