mkmyers45: The catholic church were obsessed with astrology and its obvious that Astrology is the basis for modern religion but a Christain will run roit here claiming horoscope has nothing to do with them when clear Astrological links are all over the bible even Jesus made references to astrology.Gen 1:14-15,Luke 21:25-27 and Job 38:22. Astrology is part of religion, it cannot be done any with and its in no way bad.

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16And

1To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

jantavanta: The Origin of the Cross: The [b]cross[/b]ing of the Ecliptic with the Celestial Equator

The S[b]u[/b]n on the Cross personified as the S[b]o[/b]n on the Cross. This astronomical knowledge was known to Africans
long before Christianity spread from Ancient Egypt to Europe.

The Sun of God can have 2 birth places, called: Bethlehem and Nazareth, because the places are constellations in the sky
and not places on the Earth.

plaetton: One version of the bible says jesus was born in Nazareth, another version says he was born in Bethlehem.


Pls read the following:


http://thecounterpunch.hubpages.com/hub/Jesus-and-the-Astrological-Zodiac

References
[S1] - Singh, Madanjeet: 'The Sun- Symbol of Power and Life, UNESCO Pub., 1993 [S2] - Krupp, Edwin: In Search of Ancient Astronomies, Mcgraw-Hill, 1979 [S3] - Carpenter, Edward: Pagan and Christian Creeds, DODO Press, Chaper III: "The Symbolism of the Zodiac [S4] - Hall, Manly P.: The Secret Teachings of All Ages, 1928. Page 53-56 [Chapter: "The Zodiac and Its Signs] [S5] - Carpenter, Edward: Pagan & Christian Creeds, 1920. Page 36-53 [Chaper III: "The Symbolism of the Zodiac] [S6] - Acharya S.: Suns of God, Adventures Unlimited Press, 2004. Page 60-85 [Chaper III: "The Sun God"] [S7] - Hazelrigg, John.: The Sun Book, Health Research, 1971. Page 43 [S8] - Acharya S.: Suns of God, Adventures Unlimited Press, 2004. Page 86-95 [S9] - Olcott, William Tyler : Suns Lore of All Ages, The Book Tree, 1914. Page 157 [S10] - Mackenzie, Donald: Egyption Myth and Legend, 1907 Page 163 [S11] - Churchward, Albert: The Origin & Evolution of Religion, Page 48, 51 [S12] - Acharya S.: Suns of God, Adventures Unlimited Press, 2004. Page 92, 113 [S13] - Acharya S.: The Christ Conspiracy, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1999. Page 257-259 [S14] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Page 39-40 [S15] - Septehenses, Clerk De.: Religions. of the Ancient. Greeks, p. 214. [S16] - Doane, Thomas.: Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, p. 327-328 [S17] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Page 40 [S18] - Hall, Manly P.: The Secret Teachings of All Ages, 1928. Page 53-56 [Chapter 7: "Isis, the Virgin of the World"] [S19] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Page 12-13 [S20] - Jackson, John: Christianity before Christ, AAP, p111-113 [S21] -Walker, Barbara: Women's Encyplodia of Myths and Secrets, p. 748-754 [S22] - Massey, Gerald.: The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, The Book Tree, . Pages 56-61 [S23] - Massey, Gerald.: Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Pages 613-620 [S24] - Massey, Gerald. :Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Pages 614 [S25] - Massey, Gerald.: Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Pages 600-607 [S26] - Doane, Thomas.: Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, p. 256, 273 [S27] - Massey, Gerald.: Ancient Egypt The Light of The World ,Cosimo Classics, Pages 623-661

Pastor AIO:



Are seasons spoken of purely meteorological or are the events of history subject to seasons too.




Luke 21

Hmmm.

Pastor AIO: Where does it say that Jesus was born in two places?

Can you give us an example of new testament passages being allegorical descriptions of the Sun's passage through the zodiac? I am not disputing you, I just want examples from you.

Check the births of Jesus and John the Baptists vis a vis each other.

plaetton: One version of the bible says jesus was born in Nazareth, another version says he was born in Bethlehem.


Pls read the following:


http://thecounterpunch.hubpages.com/hub/Jesus-and-the-Astrological-Zodiac

mkmyers45:

Its possible that they are purely meteorological or they can represent other things but i still insist that a higher level of astrology is woven into the church and practiced more than we realise....

Now, was Jesus just talking about reading the heavenly body for weather patterns? Possible.... Or for to be use to forestall things that will quake the heart of a man? Most Likely....

jantavanta: Precession of the Equinox: The Lamb of God and Fishers of Men

Every approximately 2,135 years, the point of Vernal Equinox shifts as a result of the precession of the equinox.
This shift is expressed in religious texts. For example the era of Christianity was symbolized by the fish. The early Christians
were known as People of the Fish because the point of vernal equinox had shifted from Aries to Pisces.

In the celebration of Ramadan, the slaughtering of the Ram is also symbolic of the movement from the age of Aries (The Ram)
to the age of Pisces (The fish).

jantavanta:

Aquarius (The water bearer): The Baptism by John the Baptist
Pisces (The Fish): Follow me, I will make you fishers of men

More examples will come later.

Pastor AIO:

I hear you about the precession. The christians used Ichtus as a symbol, but since the precession is a global phenomenon how comes there is no other cult or movement of the period that used the fish symbolism too. Only Christianity. Or was it only christians that knew about the precession. Now if you come come up with a reference to fish symbolism in another culture around the same time that would really strengthen your argument.

But as for the Ramadan part, you are on thin ice there. For a start Islam started in 7th century CE long after the age of Pisces had been established. secondly, shouldn't they be sacrificing fish rather than rams, considering that rams belong to the previous age.

Perhaps if you delved into prehistory you might find examples of the precession away from Taurus into Aries and how that affected their cultural and religious symbolisms.

InesQor: I have always been interested in the claims about astronomy/astrology and religion. Some of them seem likely but I will need more background information to believe anything about them. Yet some others sound like coincidences, or even at worst, like jokes.

I hope jantavanta has credible sources to lend support to his premises.

jantavanta:

This is the origin of the Crescent and Star Symbol of Islam.

Jesus and the Zodiac
The sun is the "Light of the World." (John 8:12)
The sun "cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him." (Revelations 1:7)
The sun is “anointed” when its rays dip into the sea.
The sun rising in the morning is the "Savior of mankind," as well as the "healer" or "savior" during the day.
The sun wears a corona, "crown of thorns" or halo.
The sun "walks on water," describing its reflection. (John 6:19)
The sun's "followers," "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass annually.
The sun at 12 noon is "Most High" in the sky; thus, "he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun's warmth turns water into wine through ripening grapes.

Jesus as a Son God
Many of the world's sacrificed godmen have their traditional birthday on December 25th ("Christmas". This represents the ancient recognition that (from a perspective in the northern hemisphere) the sun makes a yearly descent southward until December 21st or 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and then starts to move northward again. During this time, people back then believed that "God's sun" had "died" for three days and was "born again" on December 25th. After December 25, the Sun moves 1 degree, this time north, foreshadowing longer days. And thus it was said, the Sun died on the cross, was dead for 3 days, only to be resurrected or born again.[11]
In the Gospel of Luke (1:78), Christ's very advent is depicted as a visitation from the "dayspring on high": "Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us..." The word for "dayspring" or "day" in the original Greek is ἀνατολή or anatole, which means "sunrise, east."
Jesus's role as the "light of the world" and "Sun of Righteousness" is elucidated at Matthew 17:2:
"And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light."
As it was in Matthew, the face of Christ as the sun is likewise revealed at Revelation 1:16:
"...in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."
Jesus's astro-theological nature is further indicated at Revelation 22:16, in which he is equated with the "bright morning star":
"I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star."

In these verses Jesus is symbolised as sunlight:

"I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness." - John 12:46
"In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light." - John 1:4-8
"The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world." - John 1:9
"...Christ will shine on you." - Ephesians 5:14
The "bright morning star" is typically said to be the planet Venus, but it could also refer to the sun itself.
To paraphrase New Testament sentiment concerning Christ:
"I am the light of the world that every eye will see."
If every eye can see this "light of the world," it is understandable that many people in ancient times believed Jesus Christ to be the solar orb itself, as they had with numerous gods preceding his purported advent. It is not only natural but logical that thousands of people in the earliest days of Christianity would have believed Christ to be the same as the gods they were already worshipping, the bulk of which possessed solar attributes and were often considered to be sun gods to a significant extent.
At lower angles the sun has more atmosphere to punch through, so red sunrises and sunsets appear with increasing frequency. Ancients saw these natural events as their sun god weakening as it was falling and bleeding

Jesus Christ's Son of Man

The Son of Man in the Gospels can be linked to the constellation Orion. Revelation’s description of the Son of man fits the pattern of stars in the constellation Orion. The star on his right shoulder is bright red (upper left star). The three stars at his waist were later seen as the three wise men who announced the birth of Jesus.[13]
The Son of man has a cluster of stars in the background that look like the clouds upon which the Son of man rides. Astronomical maps show the Milky Way behind the constellation Orion. From earth, they look like clouds.
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters; in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength." - Rev. 1:12-20
"And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle." - Rev. 14:14-20
Orion, as seen in human form, has his right hand holding a sickle or a club. His left hand could be holding an animal skin, a shield or a bow. The Milky Way is behind him. The arc above him represents the Sun’s path. The line going through his waist is the celestial equator which runs parallel to earth’s equator.
"As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, 'The Son of man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day.' And they were greatly distressed." - Matt. 17:22-23
When the sun goes below the equator into the dark days, it is said to be delivered to the enemy. While the earth rotates, the stars appear to be moving westerly until they dip below the horizon. Three days later they reappear in the eastern horizon.[14]
..."'tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.' Jesus said to him, 'You have said so. But I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.'" - Matt. 26:63-64
When facing North, Orion’s rising in the East can be seen as rising from the right. Orion appears at the right hand of the Sun.

A red sunset, signifying Jesus' bleeding. "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many." - (Mark 14:24)

Although the Roman Catholic Church claims that the crosier represents the shepherd's crook, it actually can be traced to the divining staff or the augur of pontifex maximus of ancient Rome, who inherited it from the priests of Babylon.

jantavanta:

Aquarius (The water bearer): The Baptism by John the Baptist
Pisces (The Fish): Follow me, I will make you fishers of men

More examples will come later.

fellis:

Point of correction, the crescent is not an Islamic symbol. People only take it as an Islamic symbol in error and ignorance.

...................................... Later on, the crescent and star were adopted by the Turks and since then the crescent has been a frequent symbol used by powerful Muslim empires such as the Ottomans and the Mughals.

The use of the crescent in other countries world wide was as a result of its use by the early propagators of Islam.