Wisdom, knowledge & understanding

And humility!

@ Image123,

Quote from Q.3

Image123:
What is levitical tithes? If you speak of tithes given to Levites, there are different Levites. there were those who work full time in Jerusalem according to courses/timetable. There were those who didn't. Levi was a tribe, and not all of them can work in the temple. there was tithe taken to Jerusalem and put in treasuries. there was also tithes shared WITHIN your gates. i've explained this in reply to question one.[/b]Who are the Levites today? What sort of question is that? The Levites were set apart for God's service, to teach others God's ways in the various locations across Israel and to serve in the temple. They had no work, and that's a major reason why God gave them the tithe of Israel.

And remember, when i say Levites, i'm referring to the whole tribe of Levi which includes the priests, the porters, the Levites, the singers etc. Anyone today that is set apart for God's work is fulfilling the same duty. It's no more restricted to a particular tribe or nation. there was a time when God wanted to use the firstborn sons of Israel for this, then latter He used the Levites. [b]Now/Today, it's anyone. It does not have to be the house of Aaron or of Gershon. The same functions still apply, and the house of God still need to be taken care of. You see, god is greater than your ilk. You still want to keep us under the law where it's Levi or no other. But we are not under the law but under grace. It is grace and the cross that has put away the vail, and we do not all have to go to Jerusalem to worship God, but can now worship Him in Spirit and in TRUTH.

Well, you are still mentioning "in" Jerusalem BUT that mountain was terminated by Christ himself in John 4:21-24. We have dealt with the issues of who are Levites in Q-1 as you said and we await you for further clarification. You yourself JUST AGREED here as I highlighted above in RED that, Today, God is not restricted to just the levites of the time of the law because we are no more under the law but under grace. Then it makes sense to say, you know within you that tithe is according to law and not according to grace. It also mean you agree that, anyone doing the work of God, teaching God's word should receive tithe which does not mean the temple(church) but the people. Like I said, you can give Kunle or me your tithe because am also teaching God's word,lol .

You said Kunle is holding to the law. I don't think this statement is true. I think you (Image123) are the very one keeping to law, "only" in the area of tithing though, i suppose. You need to break from holding onto one aspect of the law and breaking the others. If the law as you just said that kunle holds on to Levi or no other, then why hold on to tithe that the Levi do not exist to receive. You are saying, if it has to be given, then it has to be given to the levites and since the Levites no more exist or God is no more restricted to Levi alone, then the tithe receiving by the Levi should not also be restricted, it should be to anyone as you just said. I think you are the one holding unto law here and you just agreed it's no more restricted to Levi alone. You may be contradicting yourself or maybe I should say, you have not made up your mind yet.

nuclearboy: Wisdom, knowledge & understanding

And humility!

How do you mean bro?

Image123: ^it MAY be better we take it one by one, but as you please though.

Okay sir, let's talk it one by one then. I had wanted us treat it one after the other but you said you will respond at your own convenient so i decided to go on. I will be waiting.

@Goshen:

I was in awe after reading post 62. It showed a surfeit of wisdom & knowledge and was delivered with understanding with a level of humility I envy!

You have a fan in me!

^this are all qualities that kunle lacks, if we're to say the truth and let the devil be ashamed.

@ Image123,

So let's correct bro Kunle in Love. You know me myself was kind of arrogant in some of my post in the past few months. God used Snowwy and one brother (Can't remember his I.D now) to bring me to order. I had to bring this to my consciousness every time am talking to people. Snowwy made me understand that, it is one thing to know something as a good teacher of the word of God and it is another thing to be able to communicate it without any sense/tune of arrogance.

When I replied people's post in few months/weeks past, I often use some tune of language that shows "know it all" and most times, you read me saying, people don't read their bible and are not student of the word. However, God used bro Snowwy and the other brother i was talking about to correct me and I realized they were telling me the truth.

@ Image123,

Me, Kunle, nuclearboy, Snowwy and the rest teachers of the word are all expecting our tithe o.

@ Kunle,

So, it one thing to speak the truth and it is another thing to speak the truth "in love". I hope bro Kunle is reading. When people noticed something in you, kindly seek the face of God about it and consciously bring it to subjection.

@ nuclearboy,

I thank you for the honour and I thank God who bestowed upon me the honour to partake of sharing the word of God.

alright to serious me

First, you are NOT going into endless discussion on tithe. It is our duty to teach God's truth as much as we know and nothing but the truth. Hence, we are here to teach ourselves and to learn from ourselves,okay.

i do hope we'll not do the bolded.

You just said a fundamental truth which i first referred to in one of my comments to you. Just like you said, TITHE DOES NOT TAKE ANYONE TO HEAVEN NEITHER DOES IT DISQUALIFY ANYONE FROM HEAVEN. This is a bible truth you have said. Unfortunately, these tithe preachers don't see it the way you said it. They force it on people and even emphasis curse in Malachi upon the people. They make it look like it is the SURE way that God blesses people. Abraham, we know was rich in material things before he gave tithe of the "spoil" to Melchizedek. These tithe teachers go any length to use all sort of unscriptural ways to fleece God's people. Should they see it the way you have said, I don't think there will be problem.

TITHES DO NOT DISQUALIFY ANYONE FROM HEAVEN, drum that into kunle and his cohorts' heads, they usually tell people so. Tithing has been abused, healing has also been abused, deliverance has, salvation has, submission has, even Christ has. It's not a reason to throw out the baby with the water.

Now, we might have some issues due to how we interpret Matt 23:23/Luke 11:42. I will raise my point against these two verses and we can look at it together. I don't think Jesus supports tithe here even though it was still in practice then, and I will state reasons why I don't believe Jesus was supporting tithe here.

Jesus NEVER argued against tithes, i follow Him. " these ought ye to have done" is support. We don't need to twist this. If 'ought to have done' is not support, i wonder what is. Jesus could have simply said " Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin" and left it there. All your Jesus against tithe argument would have made perfect sense. He could have simply added "Verily I say unto you, Ye ought not to do this". That would be EXPLICIT. But "these OUGHT YE to have done", this is english na, not Tapa or Spanish, where we might need help of translators. We may ALL well have to go ask our english teachers the meaning of 'ought to'.

1. As we all know, Jesus was born under the law and lived the law otherwise he would break the same law he came to fulfill. Let's look at the point I want to raise against Matt 23:23/Luke 11:42 below:

It's either you are for or against.Did Jesus fulfill the law or not? You should answer. Because you guys come and say 'tithe is law and Jesus did not tithe or encourage tithe'. that's double mouthing. If Jesus did not tithe, then He did not fulfill the law (as tithe=law according to you guys).

2. In context of Matt 23:1-3. "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, [that] observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do". nkjv

Looking at the line of language used here.

Don't bother about the line of language, let's not twist this. Let's just take it as simply as He said it. " The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do"

Jesus acknowledged the scribes and the Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat. Meaning Jesus acknowledged the authorities here so He was telling His disciples and multitudes obey authorities but don't do according to their works, one of which their works is tithing which we see in verse 23.

The pharisses' work is not tithing, their work is obvious from the passage you quoted. THEY SAY AND DO NOT! i.e HYPOCRISY. They were hypocrites. That's their work. Tithing was before Pharisees, and was commanded by God. It's not a work of Pharisees, JESUS CHRIST!! This is my major grouse with all antitithers. Anything and Everything anti-tithe is brilliant and spot on to them. This your 'point' is not brilliant at all. Infact, kunle should be thanking the gods that he wasn't the one who said this on my watch.
They say and do not. The doing not, the hypocrisy, the show-off, mouth talk, was what Jesus 'attacked'. They wanted and lived to be seen of men and praised of men. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with being seen or praised. you've just been seen and praised by nuclearboy(my man). But living for it, wanting, coveting it, driven by it, is what's wrong. that's the way the pharisees lived. They made long prayers, there's nothing wrong with long prayers. Long prayers was not their works, but the pretense, the hypocrisy, the show-off. The Pharisees were zealous in their 'evangelism' as the passage says.Christ Himself was zealous, Paul was! We are to be instant in season and out of season, and zealous of good works. Zeal is not the work of the Pharisees. They paid tithes, but their hypocrisy of OMITTING more serious issues was their work, hypocrisy. making clean the outside is okay, but hypocrisy is when the inside is bad/dirty. We should all be clean without and within. Show-off and hypocrisy is what makes the outside clean and the inside dirty, to be seen of men. We ought to get the real issue Jesus was pointing out. There's nothing wrong with appearing righteous to men. We're not supposed to appear unrighteous, are we? Jesus appeared righteous to many, to Pilate, to the Centurion at His cross, to the young rich ruler, to His disciples. But it is THE WORK that is 'attacked' again.
Matthew 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
hypocrisy and iniquity within. And on and on the passage goes. Please, let's get the issues right and ask God for real understanding of His Word and message.

3. If Jesus was supporting tithe in Matt 23:23, then since he himself was born under the law, lived the law and fulfilled the law, then Jesus himself must have paid tithe but he never did. Also, If Jesus was in support of tithe here, he would have taught his disciples tithe even as he taught them to tax to the authorities then and Jesus himself did paid tax. Tax is different from tithe as we all know.

You can't say that Jesus never paid tithe. the Bible doesn't say so, where did you get that? if you say He fulfilled the law, then He must have given tithes. The scribes gave tithes, the Pharisees did. how do we know? Jesus mentioned it. If He didn't mention it, we may not know for sure. We may all say"it's only farmers that give tithes". The scribes paid tithes, all Israel were supposed to tithe. The Bible doesn't write that Jesus brought or offered things at Jerusalem. But it's the normal thing to do, or you think He just went on sight seeing excursions.All Jewish males went to Jerusalem every passover(i think 3times in a year even) and were not to come empty. It's all in the OT. These are normal things that all Jews did, and doesn't need unnecessary repetition. You don't have to teach someone what he already and always does, do you? You may correct if he's not doing it fine, that's what Jesus did.
Taxing was debatable in Jesus' days. the Jews didn't naturally pay tribute/tax. It was a mark/symbol of oppression to them. That's why they tempted Jesus with tax questions.. And so Jesus had to teach about it, and clear misconceptions. It was an occasion that came up. Tithing on the other hand, was not debatable in those days.

4. The people in context here that tithe are neither Jesus nor His disciples but Pharisees and scribes. Our example is Christ and not scribes/pharisees and the content of tithe here is NOT money but mint, anise and cummin.

Tithe is a tenth of your increase. If you increase is anise,go ahead and give. Christ's point here was not mint and anise. His point was that the scribes and pharisees tithed to the smallest/barest detail. They were detailed and committed to it, but omitted weightier matters.

Sorry, i'd continue from phone so wouldn't use quotes or post scriptures, as those would be more cumbersome. Sorry.
From point 5, go and read Matthew 5, go and read about how Christ was clear on sabbath practices. You're giving Jesus excuses, if He wanted to condemn tithes, He would have. HE DID NOT. followers of Christ should not. He even encouraged people to, these YE OUGHT TO HAVE DONE. Would Jesus encourage people to do a wrong thing?

i don tire already for phone. i'll finish when i wake later by God's grace.

@Image/Goshen
Concerning the 23% kweshion, i am not the original author of the OP but I would explain how theologians arrived at 23% for our benefit any way. Basically there are three types of tithes, the festival tithe which is done yearly, the levitical tithe which is also done yearly and the poor/ stranger tithe which is done every three years. Mathematically the first two tithes add up to 20% whilst the third tithe works out at an average of 3.3% a year if the third year tithe is divided by three years. So when the third year tithe is averaged and added to the other two tithes which adds up to 20%, you get 23.3% average tithes over the three year period. I hope my explanation is clear.

@Apostle Image123,

na you dey write this long tory on tithe? you never write this kind tory before. which kind drug you don go swallow this time

nuclearboy: Wisdom, knowledge & understanding

And humility!

Oga Nuke, You still dey naija? I be think say you follow the last satallite GEJ dem launch go space last time How body na? hope you dey kampe

Image123:
You can't say that Jesus never paid tithe. the Bible doesn't say so, where did you get that? if you say He fulfilled the law, then He must have given tithes. [/b]The scribes gave tithes, the Pharisees did. how do we know? Jesus mentioned it. If He didn't mention it, we may not know for sure. We may all say"it's only farmers that give tithes". The scribes paid tithes, [b]all Israel were supposed to tithe. The Bible doesn't write that Jesus brought or offered things at Jerusalem. But it's the normal thing to do, or you think He just went on sight seeing excursions.All Jewish males went to Jerusalem every passover(i think 3times in a year even) and were not to come empty. It's all in the OT. These are normal things that all Jews did, and doesn't need unnecessary repetition. You don't have to teach someone what he already and always does, do you? You may correct if he's not doing it fine, that's what Jesus did.
Taxing was debatable in Jesus' days. the Jews didn't naturally pay tribute/tax. It was a mark/symbol of oppression to them. That's why they tempted Jesus with tax questions.. And so Jesus had to teach about it, and clear misconceptions. It was an occasion that came up. Tithing on the other hand, was not debatable in those days.


Tithe is a tenth of your increase. If you increase is anise,go ahead and give. Christ's point here was not mint and anise.His point was that the scribes and pharisees tithed to the smallest/barest detail. They were detailed and committed to it, but omitted weightier matters.

@Image123

All of Israel was not required to tithe. (Since you use 'tithe' in the context of Israelites)

And no, tithe was not just a tenth of your increase i.e. if we are speaking of how Israelites percieved it, it was a technical term that if you mentioned to the Israelites, they knew it meant 'a tenth of the children of Israel's (not Levites) increase in farm produce/crop and animals on the physical land of Israel.We can't re-write history. God's command was specific and Israelites knew not to add to God's word, may we not do the same.

This is where the question I asked earlier in post 49 comes in.

The Tithing command was spoken to Israelites who were made up of the following audience:

TICT - Those Israelites Commanded to Tithe. Examples, Israelites by birth apart from Levites who owned land in Israel and on commodities of farm crops and farm animals (not fish, not cats, and if they had for example a trade in selling jewellery they did not tithe on income from those sales).

INC - Israelites Not so Commanded. Examples, Increase or Income on work from Israelites who were Carpenters, Blacksmiths, Fishermen, traders in cloth, shoes, bags etc were not tithed. The poor/orphans who did not own land were not commanded to tithe. Israelites whose farm animals did not yield up to ten were not commanded to tithe until it got to the tenth.

(Strangers also were not commanded to tithe).

As a technical term, tithe was specific [/b]and unless Jesus had a farm where he produced crop and farm animals, He couldn't tithe. Even if He had the crop/animals, He would have to separate any increase/income from carpentery and not pay a tenth on the income.

p.s. you said "Christ's point here was not mint and anise." - What we can gather from His comment here is that He stayed true to the technical definition of tithe mentioning farm produce. It confirms the Historical reality which we cannot escape from if we must be good scholars and teachers of the word.

Therefore where He said in Matt 23:23 not to neglect tithing, He was

1. Speaking to Pharisees (TICT - Those Israelites Commanded to Tithe) re-iterating an existing statute for TICTS

2. Other non-Tithing Israelites (The INCs - Israelites Not so Commanded eg carpenters) would know [b]Jesus definitely WAS NOT asking them not to neglect something they were not commanded to do in the first place.

*Of the two groups; TICTs & INCS (pardon my usage),
- why do you insist Christ was addressing you Image123 in Matt23:23?
- (Do you belong to the TICTS?)
- What is your basis for the preference/choice between TICTs & INC
- Do 21st Century Christians belong to TICTS?

He certainly [b]excluded Himself and other carpenters [/b]when He said: 'do not neglect these things/tithe' in Matt 23:23 since they would belong to the INC group

Sorry for the plenty bolds (I'm also not able to quote my original questions in post 49, haven't really got the hang of how the forum works).

Thanks.

Pastor Kun: @Image/Goshen
Concerning the 23% kweshion, i am not the original author of the OP but I would explain how theologians arrived at 23% for our benefit any way. Basically there are three types of tithes, the festival tithe which is done yearly, the levitical tithe which is also done yearly and the poor/ stranger tithe which is done every three years. Mathematically the first two tithes add up to 20% whilst the third tithe works out at an average of 3.3% a year if the third year tithe is divided by three years. So when the third year tithe is averaged and added to the other two tithes which adds up to 20%, you get 23.3% average tithes over the three year period. I hope my explanation is clear.

Very clear oga kuns, thank you.

Zikkyy: @Apostle Image123,

na you dey write this long tory on tithe? you never write this kind tory before. which kind drug you don go swallow this time

Holyine, specially prescribed.

@Jem1
i'd not want to ignore, it might appear like i am. But i want to keep it as short and as simple as possible, from one point to the next. That's a major reason i don't usually contribute on 'tithe talk'. So please permit me to finish with the OP's questions, that would take some patience though. And do remind me, and get us Bible passages that state all these your acronyms. Thank you too.

Image123: Sorry, i'd continue from phone so wouldn't use quotes or post scriptures, as those would be more cumbersome. Sorry.
From point 5, go and read Matthew 5, go and read about how Christ was clear on sabbath practices. You're giving Jesus excuses, if He wanted to condemn tithes, He would have. HE DID NOT. followers of Christ should not. He even encouraged people to, these YE OUGHT TO HAVE DONE. Would Jesus encourage people to do a wrong thing?

i don tire already for phone. i'll finish when i wake later by God's grace.

Way to go image123, your posts shows that one with God is a majority.

Not to keep you all waiting forever, i'll continue from my phone. Unfortunately, i'll not quote, but i'm continuing my answer from where i stopped at no.5 point goshen made.
i did not say the first tithe i explained was for 'levites, temple workers and their families'. i said Levites working in Jerusalem temple. This are the same as temple workers, not different as in "levites, temple workers". i explained that there are different levites, did you see that or only quoted it? They are not just teaching God's ways but ALSO set apart. i even said "set apart" first before the 'teaching'. They have no other work. Anyone today that is dedicated for such purpose is fulfilling the same duty. You quoted me saying that. So, are you in such category? i am not, i do not need your tithe. Most churches have full time workers in different departments. Some are pastors, evangelist, press, accountant, gatemen etc. They work for their church, they do not have other work. They are paid from the church coffers. These are the people functioning in the same office. They work in the church/temple.

OLAADEGBU:

Way to go image123, your posts shows that one with God is a majority.

Bros why don't you attempt to answer the kweshions yourself instead of encouraging Image to continue ridicling himself and twisting the very word of God he claims to serve.

Image123:
Holyine, specially prescribed.

Holyine i know dat drug very well naw dat drug has been banned whoever prescribed that drug no like you the drug dey make people to hallucinate

Zikkyy:

Holyine i know dat drug very well naw dat drug has been banned whoever prescribed that drug no like you the drug dey make people to hallucinate

i don't overdose na.

Hey, G'morning Zikky and Image,

No controversy and no distraction sirs, . Face the panel of judges.

@ Apostle Image123,

You don finish with your response? so we go move ahead?

Image123:
i don't overdose na.

Okay. No wahala. Just be careful sha

Goshen360: Hey, G'morning Zikky and Image,

No controversy and no distraction sirs, . Face the panel of judges.

Sorry sir no more distractions from me

Goshen360: Hey, G'morning Zikky and Image,

No controversy and no distraction sirs, . Face the panel of judges.

@ Apostle Image123,

You don finish with your response? so we go move ahead?

i'm busier than planned. i'll finish up when i get home from work, sorry.

Image123: @Jem1
i'd not want to ignore, it might appear like i am. But i want to keep it as short and as simple as possible, from one point to the next. That's a major reason i don't usually contribute on 'tithe talk'. So please permit me to finish with the OP's questions, that would take some patience though. And do remind me, and get us Bible passages that state all these your acronyms. Thank you too.

Thanks Image123.

I used the acronyms to better explain the obligations Israelites were under inorder to keep the commandment on what was deemed 'tithe' (and therefore holy)found in
Leviticus 27:30,32
30 “ ‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord.
32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord.

And so

1. Israelites who got grain from the soil/fruit and animals herd/flock (i.e. every tenth)must tithe said items as they were holy unto God.
Thet are therefore;
'Those Israelites Commanded to Tithe' (TICT)

2. Israelites who do not [/b]get grain from the soil/fruit and animals (herd/flock) are not required to tithe as they do not have the said items that are holy unto God. They would therefore be;
'Israelites Not so Commanded' (INC).
Example, carpenters, fishermen, blacksmiths, traders in jewellery, clothes etc.

It follows that tithe in Matt 23:23 "....these ought ye to have done" would mean tithe per Lev 27: 30,32 which [b]contains an obligation by command of the Lord on what was holy and tithable which Carpenters, Fishermen etc and strangers would no be able to meet.

Jesus therefore did not tell INCs e.g. carpenters etc, 'these ought ye to have done'. He was speaking to TICT (as only they could meet the obligation.

p.s. If a Hospital Director gathers a group of surgeons and nurses who are to carry out a delicate operation on a person 'Good luck everyone, I want you to go in there and operate on the patient'. The surgeons would know what their obligations are and so would the nurses. The nurse would not grab the scalpel and insist, well the director was speaking to me as well, she would know what her role is and stick to it.

Maybe not a very good example but I hope I explained myself well.

I am actually more concerned with tithing taught using the Malachi curse as a foundation. A lot of people are only exposed to that teaching which has it's foundation in Lev 27:30,32 as that was the tithe being talked about in Malachi. People are being needlessly frightened and become physically agitated as they know that they know that they know they would be under a curse and are robbers because they did not set apart a tithe of their income.

If INCs; Israelite carpenters, fishermen, traders in jewellery, the poor, strangers were not considered to be under a Malachi curse/robbing God even in Jesus' time if they did not give a tithe of their income/increase, who is the person who attempts to lay a curse and cause hapless fear on 21st century christians. The teaching must be wholesome and based on historical and biblical truths. Thanks.

Okay, to finish the first question 'rebut'. i talked about David, about prophets, about Anna, are you taking my words out of context. That's unfair na my brother.
There is order in God's house. Jesus couldn't have been diverting the tithes from the levites into His 'ministry'. The Levitical system was still in place and Jewish christians still went to the temple. You find them so often IN THE TEMPLE in the book of Acts. Peter and John went to the temple to pray even after pentecost. Paul was there purifying himself before his arrest. The levites were still there till 70A.D when the temple was destroyed and the Jews scattered as prophesied.
"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13). We are aware though, that offerings began to be collected as the church began to grow, a practice not done when Jesus was around. And tithe is a form of offering, yes or yes?

Jem1: @Rastamouse

Hello, if you believe the tithe should be shared with widows etc, why can't you give them some from your tithe directly? Seems to me some kind of bondage if it's so rigid it must go through a pastor.

I think we are all required to be good stewards as in that parable of the talents. It's our duty to make sure our monies are used for the right purpose.

Well I guess it is because the LORD said I should take it to the church. I also believe that the tithe is different from doing good to the poor and needy. I do that also but that is not supposed to be my tithe

I'd try to connect to quotes later for easier reading. i'm currently reading goshen's post and replying through phone.
If your singers and co are set apart for that work in your church, then they'll be paid. It depends on the arrangement, agreement and administration of the church location.
Abraham and Levi gave tithe to Melchizedek BEFORE the Levitical priesthood. Tithe outlives the priesthood, they no be mates. hebrews 7.8 is continuous tense, not past.
"And here men that die receive tithes; but there he RECEIVETH them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth." (Hebrews 7:.
i said we have pastors. The office of a pastor is not the office of a priest. There are different offices, priest, prophet, King, pastor, teacher etc. We should stop stereotyping pastors as priests, would i have to say this yet again? Your pastors, bishops, apostles etc are not 'standing between you and God'. They are your leaders, they have rule over you, and are worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR. There is no temple but there are church locations today, that's undeniable. We don't have to go into all these word jangling. Call it temple, tabernacle, synagogue, parish, cell centre whatever. There are meeting places where believers meet. There was one temple, now there are multiple churches.
Who said it MUST STILL NOT BE MONEY. You're now a law giver, ehn? A tithe is a tenth. You guys are so particular about the letter, pharisaic stuff, really.

b. i told you that these tithe taught giving. I don't know who you call tithe teachers, and don't know what they teach or don't teach. But i know many people encourage charity, even non-christians. i showed 'IN' as the operative word in my explanation, to emphasize the distinction between the second and the third tithe. You say/know this type of tithe is now impossible to practice and yet you're asking 'tithe teachers' to teach it. You, my brother are becoming impossible.
c. People are encouraged to give. Even muslins know the importance of giving and practice it more than many christians. The average pastor will tell you to be kind and generous. I don't know where you get "all they ever say". The first tithe i explained has no 'break'. Offerings have no break. Giving has no break. Jesus said "Give", He didn't talk about breaks. If you want to teach people to practice 'the 3rd tithe', you're FREE. Teach the 'complete truth' and of course, apply the breaks.

Finally, yes, i meant specifically the 2nd and 3rd. And if people have not yet learnt to give, it'll be good one puts them through with the help of 'a school master'. Not everyone is a giver. Not everyone knows how to give, so the 'school master' is useful around.
However, the 'first tithe' is still much needful as churches still have to be run. Tithing did not bring us to grace. There you go again equating tithing with the law.
There's nothing wrong with giving stipulated givings. "Everyone AS GOD HAS prospered him" is a stipulated percentage, yes? It's not a work for salvation, it is giving.
The 2nd and 3rd tithes are not needed anymore IMO but if you feel they should be taught so that we can have complete truth, i have no objections. Ce finis.

@Image123:

Seems what you are projecting is an emotional argument - "they are doing the work of God so let's feel sorry for them and help them by giving" when you say "churches still have to be run" and "there's nothing wrong with giving stipulated giving"

Point is, are we supposed to run our lives on the basis of emotions! We see professional beggars (who have no injury but refuse to work even when offered jobs to do) and give them because it makes us feel good - "God saw me give that beggar and will reward me"! Na so? Is that right?

Goshen deliberately made his points using the Bible and so did Jem1 - WITH concise applicable examples we all can relate to just as Jesus Himself used! Yet here is your rebuttal summarized - "Churches still have to be run (so bring money in anyhow)".

Would you then be offended if someone says it seems as if you know this truth but prefer denial?