Gbawe:

Oga mi, what shows you are talking to a certified lunatic more than this ignorant rant

I mentioned it earlier that this madman is not well-adjusted and is actually fighting some sense of rejection. We see undoubted proof here.

Even when I arrived in the UK , as a teenager, slightly over two decades ago, London was already a hub of sublime cosmopolitan clubbing experience. The clubs in the West end back then , as long as R and B united folks, featured all skin colours. It was more about the music and adherrents of the music came from every race. In the West End Slap Harrys was one of the pioneering cosmopolitan joints back then and Bar Rumba that went on for many years. There were so many clubs as well where black, white and green coexisted happily.

Gradually drum and base, garage and jungle came in and clubs went 'hybrid' with multi-rooms feature different sound. Hannover Grand in the West end was another cosmopolitan Shack. There was then the "twice as nice" events and Southport weekenders backed by the likes of Trevor Nelson. It was a great time when folks were united by the music that was not birthed on x-factor. There were simply too many joints where black and white mingled freely. In fact I remember , on my first visit to the USA , thinking how 'backward' New York was in 2001 because segregation and racial tension was so scarily palpable.

For anyone to say what Cap28 says , today, is just complete confirmation of lunacy. I make bold to say there is no London club today a black man cannot go into unless it is completely underground and not advertised i.e no banner outside and invites is by word of mouth alone. Any club openly discriminating, in these days of camera phone recording, will be shut down within hours same as how the racist idiot who too to twitter to racially mock Muamba , the footballer who had heart failure on the pitch, was arrested and jailed quickly. His life is now in tatters. The white trash lady, pasted on youtube, mouthing racist obscenity against others was promptly arraigned in Court. That is how the UK is these day so , even the most hardcore racists have to be 'underground' and very clever with their antics. Even the ultra-exclusive members clubs and hang-outs for rich City lads and footballers, like the Wellington Clubs, have ordinary Pretty hairdresser black girls , the 'toys' of some rich 'ballers', as members let alone all the rich black folks and Arabs enjoying the Capital.

No Club, however powerful, can get away with segregating anyone openly these days. Sadly Cap28 does not get 'updates' in the bunker he locked himself in since 1945. It just suits him , as a deranged hateful creature, to rant as if he is in 1940 Tennessee. This is why he cannot, till now, say anything about himself. There is nothing to reveal. He has spent the last 20 years holed up in a dingy and filthy room. Sad bstard. I still can't believe the fool made that insane comment above about black folks hanging out in Naija joints because they are segregated. Abeg, bros free this madman. you know the score. He is too far gone and an example of the lunatic Soldier still in the bush in 1990, 'fighting', when the war ended in 1945.

Holy smoke! you really were into the London SOHO/West end club scene. When I lived in the U.K., Slap Harris was the place for Sunday nights. Bar Rummba too was great. There was this other place on Shaftsebury Ave or Piccadilly can't recall anymore

My buddy (Nick) & I did some... no need to say spill stuff here

kingoflag: @PhysicsQED

Dude, aren't you in the West? If you are you will know that racism and hate speeches are abhorred in ALL these countries and this is enshrined in the Laws.

Besides, why would you think the U.K does not have a "Bill Of Rights" ?

I didn't comment on what was or was not abhorred in the West. I'm in America and nobody can be arrested or go to jail for making hate speeches or hurling racial insults or even denying the holocaust of WW2. It's a different system over here.

To the best of my knowledge they don't have an equivalent of the U.S.'s bill of rights in the UK. I could be wrong though.

kingoflag:
I don't get the bolded

I got the impression that in the UK there is some sort of political/philosophical opposition to a document explicitly listing what fundamental and undeniable rights people have in the society.

coogar:
big fat criminal record! one has to disclose minor offences like driving under the influence let
alone a serious offence like making racial slurs.

Interesting.

Driving under the influence is a big deal in the U.S. in some places what with drunk driving or "drugged driving" causing the deaths of young people each year. Making racial slurs is just seen as socially objectionable in most places. Not something a person can be arrested for.

in a nutshell, a boy who was raised by serial killer parents has the excuse to be a mass murderer?
allowing racists to hurl abuses freely would put a mockery on the 2nd world war the brits fought with their blood n sweats.
this is why it's important for parents to teach their wards and guide their utterances.



if he changes his ways 15 yrs later then kudos to him.
it means his prison reform is now 100% complete.



he should hold himself responsible for screwing up his own life.

I agree that he is responsible for his own actions since he has a conscience like all other mentally fit people, but I guess my point is about the significance of a criminal record to one's reputation and opportunities. It seems like overkill to me, but I could be wrong. Maybe a significant fine or mandatory community service would be more appropriate if the government feels the law must intervene.

hardened racists in prison? that is if he survives the beatings he would get from the
yardies while in prison if they should get a wind of what brought him there.

Your surprise kind of baffles me. It seems like a completely legitimate possibility. In the U.S. they have the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang and people are only arrested for violent race/hate crimes in the U.S., not for statements.

nope. resisting an arrest is a huge offence as well.



not feasible.
even the animals in the uk know you cannot make a racial comment anywhere in europe.



this is why you have ip addresses.
even if your twitter account was hacked, did the hacker use your ip address to make such
racial provocative comments?

Thanks for the answers. I was just curious about how well the system was really working.

PhysicsQED:

Interesting.

Driving under the influence is a big deal in the U.S. in some places what with drunk driving or "drugged driving" causing the deaths of young people each year. Making racial slurs is just seen as socially objectionable in most places. Not something a person can be arrested for.

this is why i have always maintained america is a 3rd world country - forget the hype.
in the uk, a member of the public can call the cops that you were racially insulted - and the offender would be arrested n charged to court.
it is that serious!

I agree that he is responsible for his own actions since he has a conscience like all other mentally fit people, but I guess my point is about the significance of a criminal record to one's reputation and opportunities. It seems like overkill to me, but I could be wrong. Maybe a significant fine or mandatory community service would be more appropriate if the government feels the law must intervene.

community service is also a conviction here!

Your surprise kind of baffles me. It seems like a completely legitimate possibility. In the U.S. they have the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang and people are only arrested for violent race/hate crimes in the U.S., not for statements.

nothing surprises me about america. i am sure they have worse organizations than aryan brotherhood in prisons.
the truth is, nothing like such happens here. racism is a big issue. the biggest offence anyone can commit.
an offender becomes an enemy of the state. even after serving time, he would need police protection for the rest of his life.

Thanks for the answers. I was just curious about how well the system was really working.

working perfectly!

Wow. Well, they seem to have a completely different perspective than the one I've come to see as normal. I do understand the motivation for those laws, but I would still be reluctant to enact such laws. Thanks for your comments coogar.

occam:

Holy smoke! you really were into the London SOHO/West end club scene. When I lived in the U.K., Slap Harris was the place for Sunday nights. Bar Rummba too was great. There was this other place on Shaftsebury Ave or Piccadilly can't recall anymore

My buddy (Nick) & I did some... no need to say spill stuff here

Oga mi, I know exactly what you are talking about. It is one of those you-had-to-be-there thing all revolving around several babes and 'free sessions'. Good old days my brother.

PhysicsQED: @ coogar & Gbawe

Ok, I get what you guys are saying, but I have some questions.

1. Does the arrest and jail time for racially aggravated public disorder stay on one's record? That is, does one then have a criminal record which one would have to disclose to an employer in the future or which might resurface as an issue if one runs for a political position in the future?

Also, consider a man who was raised from the age of 4 until the age of 18 by his affable and avuncular but hardcore racist male relative and his relative's equally racist but charming wife following the tragic and mysterious demise of his artistic and fashionable parents somewhere near the Himalayas. Then he attends a university composed, in terms of faculty and students, of virtually one ethnicity or race, which is the same as his own and eventually joins the local chapter of an extreme far right political party and the local chapter of a national racist organization, with the urging and support of the family members who raised him. After attending a few meetings or rallies, he begins distributing flyers calling for the immediate deportation of certain religious minorities, the profiling of certain racial minorities, limitations on where certain racial minorities can go and of what political or corporate positions they can hold, and also calling several groups of racial and religious minorities "worthless kunts." After being arrested and serving a month or two, he goes back into society as racist as he was before.

However, 15 years later, he reads some book or watches some movie stressing the interconnectedness and brotherhood of all peoples, has an awakening or enlightenment and starts to see all human beings as his brothers and sisters and disavows his former beliefs. He becomes a Quaker, lives in a multi-ethnic hipster commune for a short while, starts donating money to poor or sick people in countries where the people are of a different race than his own, and overall genuinely changes his ways.

Upon finally unraveling the mystery behind the circumstances of his parents' death, he is suddenly motivated to become a politician so that he can champion the passage of stronger and stricter safety requirements for certain vehicles and aircraft, but his former arrest and prison record become an issue for him and he is unable to withstand the media attack on his past. He loses the election and decides to leave politics alone. He then tries to get a job at certain companies to try to change things from within. However, his potential future employers see his criminal record and decide not to hire him.

Wouldn't this guy be getting screwed over by the system?


2. Have people in Britain considered the possibility that the humiliation of the arrest, and the depression and/or anger that might follow from the prison time served, might push a minor racist over the edge and turn them into a full blown neo-nazi, and make them hardened racists that might more seriously contemplate violent action, rather than make them repent or reform? I mean, is this a talking point, or something that has been seriously debated publicly or in government before or after those racially aggravated public disorder laws were passed?

3. Has anyone ever tried to resist the arrest physically or gotten into a standoff with the police?

4. Has anyone ever hired a lawyer to fight the charges and jail time?

5. Has anyone ever tried to claim that their twitter account was hacked or claim that they were being impersonated by a rival/enemy when they made racially provocative statements?

My brother, to tell you the truth, I am not entirely comfortable with the whole thing either. Act physically out of racial hatred of others, then you deserve jail pronto. I back that 100%

Yet, going to jail for saying something you may regret deeply tomorrow may be a tad harsh but , ultimately, we have to defer to the School of thought that feels everything must be done to promote racial harmony.

We all saw, with the recent UK riots, the fragility of modern life vis-a-vis the danger of social networking mobilisation in an age where citizens in western Nations have scant regards for authority. The fight must be to win over hearts and minds.

To that extent, societal evolution has created an awareness ,in policy-makers, of the dangers of a non-proactive approach. They now feel harsh deterrents need to be deployed to secure multicultural harmony by placing the needs of minorities above evrything else. Not perfect but I agree with it as the best'flawed' way out.

PhysicsQED:

I didn't comment on what was or was not abhorred in the West. I'm in America and nobody can be arrested or go to jail for making hate speeches or hurling racial insults or even denying the holocaust of WW2. It's a different system over here.

To the best of my knowledge they don't have an equivalent of the[b] U.S.'s bill of rights in the UK[/b]. I could be wrong though.



I got the impression that in the UK there is some sort of political/philosophical opposition to a document explicitly listing what fundamental and undeniable rights people have in the society.

Lol. Dude, of everything you stated up there the only one you're right about is that its not a crime to deny the Holocaust. If, however, it can be proven that you denigrated someone on account of their race (verbally or otherwise), you my friend, are going to jail. . . . HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. Hate speech is "accepted" (in the United States) to the extent that it doesn't lead to violence. However, there have been instances where all the convicted did was "speak", yet the laws were somehow used to gain a conviction and the courts looked the other way when the appeals process rolled around.


P.S: Where do you think the model for the U.S Bill of Rights came about?

http://spectator.org/blog/2011/06/23/can-speech-be-a-hate-crime

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/british-bill-of-rights-1689.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_hat1.htm

http://www.nij.gov/journals/257/hate-crime.html

Gbawe:

My brother, to tell you the truth, I am not entirely comfortable with the whole thing either. Act physically out of racial hatred of others, then you deserve jail pronto. I back that 100%

Yet, going to jail for saying something you may regret deeply tomorrow may be a tad harsh but , ultimately, we have to defer to the School of thought that feels everything must be done to promote racial harmony.

We all saw, with the recent UK riots, the fragility of modern life vis-a-vis the danger of social networking mobilisation in an age where citizens in western Nations have scant regards for authority. The fight must be to win over hearts and minds.

To that extent, societal evolution has created an awareness ,in policy-makers, of the dangers of a non-proactive approach. They now feel harsh deterrents need to be deployed to secure multicultural harmony by placing the needs of minorities above evrything else. Not perfect but I agree with it as the best'flawed' way out.

Yeah, I understand the proactive approach now. It just seemed very strange and flawed to me, but the benefits may indeed outweigh the drawbacks for some countries.

kingoflag:

Lol. Dude, of everything you stated up there the only one you're right about is that its not a crime to deny the Holocaust. If, however, it can be proven that you denigrated someone on account of their race (verbally or otherwise), you my friend, are going to jail. . . . HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. Hate speech is "accepted" (in the United States) to the extent that it doesn't lead to violence. However, there have been instances where all the convicted did was "speak", yet the laws were somehow used to gain a conviction and the courts looked the other way when the appeals process ruled around.


P.S: Where do you think the model for the U.S Bill of Rights came about?

http://spectator.org/blog/2011/06/23/can-speech-be-a-hate-crime

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/british-bill-of-rights-1689.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_hat1.htm

http://www.nij.gov/journals/257/hate-crime.html

Well there really are nothing like "racially aggravated disruption of public order" offenses in the U.S. Maybe you know of one or two instances that run contrary to this general practice, but in general, people can say whatever they want as long it isn't putting people's lives in direct/immediate danger or they aren't making death threats or engaging in violence. Whites can hurl racial insults, Blacks can hurl racial insults, Asians (ex. Jenny Hyun) can hurl racial insults, etc. It's a free-for-all. The American Nazi party still exists, etc. Freedom of speech trumps all.

As for the UK bill of rights, thanks for the info.

PhysicsQED:


Well there really are nothing like "racially aggravated disruption of public order" offenses in the U.S. Maybe you know of one or two instances that run contrary to this general practice, but in general, people can say whatever they want as long it isn't putting people's lives in direct/immediate danger or they aren't making death threats or engaging in violence. Whites can hurl racial insults, Blacks can hurl racial insults, Asians (ex. Jenny Hyun) can hurl racial insults, etc. It's a free-for-all. The American Nazi party still exists, etc. Freedom of speech trumps all.

As for the UK bill of rights, thanks for the info.

You're welcome.

Most States (excepting Wyoming) will nail you to the cross if they can considering Hate speeches. Their laws give more leeway for that, whereas, Federal Laws are more "lenient" in so far as violence is not involved. The truth is hate crime laws in America are complex ; reality is this country has more serious issues to be bothered about than worrying who called who what. . . . at least until you run into an ambitious Prosecutor.

This Just happened a few minutes ago. People have a misconception that in the U.S you can get away with calling people any kinds of names you wish.


By Brad Lendon
CNN
(CNN) — Detroit Tigers outfielder Delmon Young was arrested in Manhattan early Friday and charged with aggravated harassment after a dispute with another man, New York police said.
Young appeared intoxicated when police arrived at the scene outside the New York Hilton, and he was treated and released from a hospital Friday morning, police Detective Martin Speechley said. The other person involved in the dispute, a 26-year-old male, sustained minor injuries but refused treatment, Speechley said.
Young was in police custody Friday morning, the detective said.
The aggravated harassment charge is a misdemeanor, but Speechley said the case is being investigated as a possible hate crime because of “religious statements made” during the dispute. If there is evidence to support a hate crime, the seriousness of the charge would be “elevated,” he said.
The Tigers are in New York for a three-game series against the Yankees beginning Friday. Team officials were not immediately available for comment.
The team lost to the Seattle Mariners in Detroit on Thursday afternoon before flying to New York.

ttp://wtvr.com/2012/04/27/major-league-baseball-player-arrested-hate-crime-investigation-underway/

Houston we have a problem.

Nigerian Teeager, Victoria osoteku Bags 12 Years imprisonment in UK
https://www.nairaland.com/924529/nigerian-teeager-victoria-osoteku-bags

Obi Nwokeh, Christopher Omoregrie & Samson Odegbune Jailed For Murder In UK
https://www.nairaland.com/919450/obi-nwokeh-christopher-omoregrie-samson

Like I said, there seems to be a gang problem amongst Nigerians in the UK. Instead of some of you sticking your head in the sand, you need to come up with solutions to ending this problem.

kingoflag: This Just happened a few minutes ago. People have a misconception that in the U.S you can get away with calling people any kinds of names you wish.


By Brad Lendon
CNN
(CNN) — Detroit Tigers outfielder Delmon Young was arrested in Manhattan early Friday and charged with aggravated harassment after a dispute with another man, New York police said.
Young appeared intoxicated when police arrived at the scene outside the New York Hilton, and he was treated and released from a hospital Friday morning, police Detective Martin Speechley said. The other person involved in the dispute, a 26-year-old male, sustained minor injuries but refused treatment, Speechley said.
Young was in police custody Friday morning, the detective said.
The aggravated harassment charge is a misdemeanor, but Speechley said the case is being investigated as a possible hate crime because of “religious statements made” during the dispute. If there is evidence to support a hate crime, the seriousness of the charge would be “elevated,” he said.
The Tigers are in New York for a three-game series against the Yankees beginning Friday. Team officials were not immediately available for comment.
The team lost to the Seattle Mariners in Detroit on Thursday afternoon before flying to New York.

ttp://wtvr.com/2012/04/27/major-league-baseball-player-arrested-hate-crime-investigation-underway/

This hate crime speech stuff will stay limited to violence or other actual crimes (like harassment) not mere speech and arresting people for speaking offensively will never stick. At the very most they'll experiment with it for a while and then dump it once the appropriate court precedent rules it out as a crime. I don't think you comprehend just how dearly and jealously Americans guard their right to free speech and how much Americans value it and other principles held to be foundational to the USA. Free speech may be limited, but not as limited as you seem to think.

You CAN get away with going on racist or anti-religious rants against a specific group. It simply isn't a crime in America as long as you don't commit a crime in addition to doing that. By the way, do you live in America or have you lived there? I ask because you seem to be approaching this from a theoretical perspective rather than from experience or what you've seen and heard and for whatever reason don't seem to think the USA is markedly different from Britain when it comes to freedom of speech and racism. For example, in the first link you posted earlier, where that Nigerian student and that Saudi student were attacked, the only reason why the guy who hurled racist taunts got 20 days is because his friend assaulted those two after he escalated the situation (the Nigerian and the Saudi had been arguing with him and his friend and there was taunting/insults going both ways, not just from the white guys) with his racially provocative comments. Had there been no assault on the Nigerian and the Saudi by his friend neither he nor his friend would have been arrested or spent even an hour in jail. That's the truth.

Nebeuwa: Houston we have a problem.

Nigerian Teeager, Victoria osoteku Bags 12 Years imprisonment in UK
https://www.nairaland.com/924529/nigerian-teeager-victoria-osoteku-bags

Obi Nwokeh, Christopher Omoregrie & Samson Odegbune Jailed For Murder In UK
https://www.nairaland.com/919450/obi-nwokeh-christopher-omoregrie-samson

Like I said, there seems to be a gang problem amongst Nigerians in the UK. Instead of some of you sticking your head in the sand, you need to come up with solutions to ending this problem.

this same case has been in the news since 2009/10 circa. some group of students haunted a dude and
murdered him in the present of 3,000 tube passengers @ victoria station in broad day light. the manner by
which these teenagers went about it with reckless abandon made it such a big story and trust the british media
to feast on the news....

another racist LovePeddler due to face the slammer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA-Ds1Kc6uU&feature=related

due to be sentenced on the 29th of may!

room702:

what I'm saying is, we should support each other more just like the Asians and the white people. institutionalized racism isn't going anywhere in the UK we all know that

Support ko, rapport ni.

shymmex:

I don't know why you keep insinuating, that I feel superior. I saw a thread I can relate to, and I posted what I think the problem.. The OP was talking about 'Nigerians of Bristish Descent' - and I posted what I feel the problem is. And it's a black thing in the UK, as you pointed out - but we're not talking about other nationalities here.

You keep mentioning Nigerians who have imbibed the British thought process into their way of life, and don't see themselves as Nigerians - but who's to blame for that? Is that not the parents' fault?? Are their parents not Nigerians - or are you going to tell me that most of them have lost their Nigerian-ness, just by living in the UK for a period of time??

The problem is more than just 'overarching societal issues' - it's deeper than something you can just view from the surface. Parents don't help as well... If most of them raised their kids to be Nigerians - I doubt the problem would be as problematic as it is right now...

There are hundreds of Nigerian youths born here serving life sentences in British prisons - and hundreds have been victims of gang violence - we all need to look for a way to break this vicious cycle.. I'm even more worried about the next generations of Nigerians out here, because of the baby mums' culture - that this generation has imbibed into their lifestyle.

A bit late, I know. But Shymmex, you KILLED it here, you totally did! You saw this problem before it happened in woolwich! You see the future!!

Katsumoto:


There is always a different perspective and everything is relative. When you compare opportunities in the UK with other European countries, Black people in the UK have it good but when you compare it with opportunities in the US, the picture is not so rosy. It may be true that a lot of black folk have white-collar jobs in the UK but you need to dig deeper to see an underlying issue.

Typically, most ‘successful’ black people in the UK are in the arts & entertainment, IT, medical, and accounting industries. In the industries where old boy networks reign supreme such as Law, surveying, tenured professorships, media, advertising, etc, you will find only a handful of Black folks. Even in the management consultancy industry, you will find many Caucasians with history and literature degrees from Oxford being selected ahead of more qualified Black folks.

For the black folks who have white collar jobs, they generally think that the UK is a good place until they hit the proverbial glass ceiling, then their careers goes into a rut and they are stuck in the same role for decades with no promotion. When they move (career-wise), it’s always horizontal and never vertical. Yes there are opportunities in the UK but it’s only for a few.

Black folks have been going to school, in large numbers, in the UK since the 40s but look at the boards of the FTSE 100 and there has only ever been one black CEO (Thiam, who was appointed in 2009). Currently, in the US, you have Thompson (McDonalds), Frazier (Merck), Chenault (Amex), Burns (female, Xerox), Ferguson (TIAA-CREF), O’Neal (Delphi), Otis (Darden). There are others such as Ward, Parson (Citigroup), ONeal (Merrill Lynch), Raines, etc.

One may argue that Black folks in the UK are not positioning themselves properly in terms of not knowing when to do post graduate courses and what courses to pursue. And also that not many are going to school. But what about those who have selected the right courses and done their post graduate programs at the right time and are still being overlooked.

Brilliant as ever!

Katsumoto: There are many reasons for the gang culture in the UK but number one is the absence of fathers in the home.

Other culprits are

1. Society, which makes being a single mother fashionable
2. Society, which makes it difficult for parents to discipline their kids
3. Women who have kids just because they know the state will provide for them
4. Deadbeat males who aren't real men
5. Do-gooders who go putting their nose in every one's business
6. The liberals (labour) who made it difficult for teachers to do their jobs

Solutions
1. If you reduce welfare, people will have fewer kids
2. Don't make juvenile centers cozy for those kids. They don't do anytime and see going to these centers as earning stripes (street cred)
3. Give power back to teachers and parents
4. You can make these kids serve in the military, away from the front line, but still close enough to other men who can motivate and discipline them

For the Nigerian parents in the UK, they must be prepared to go to jail if necessary. They should also put more emphasis on their kids and not the silly parties they have every single weekend. It is absolutely ludicrous for a parent to go from work to a party and back to work without going home to check on his/her kids. Especially when you live in the worst parts of London.

Wow! Kats!

Decryptor: Which tribe from Nigeria forms the vast majority of the population in the UK? Isn't it the Yorubas? They exhibit their criminal tendecies and vices which is biologically embeded in their genes there and end up disgracing Nigerians here. Stu.pid people!

Now I understand the underlying aim of the op.

The Resurrection.

These exchanges are very interesting. I am have been conducting research for the last three years, looking at the lives of Nigerian descent British citizens, those born and mostly raised in the UK, but mainly in London really. There are so many different types of experiences in fact. It all depends where you were brought up - where you lived, piled up in housing estates in parts of South London, with lots of other relatively poor Africans, or North London boroughs, in more ethnically mixed areas. Who your parents were, what they were doing (employed or not) and in what kinds of jobs, whether you were raised with both of them (but then again single mothers or absent fathers are not the most important issue), fostered for a time, or not. When your parents came was also really crucial, before or after the 1980s, before it was the pure students brigade, who stayed and found jobs more or less equivalent to their qualification, afterwards, it was the economic migrants, escaping crisis in Nigeria, with mixed bag of qualifications, and in need for work, would take anything on offer, work several jobs, whilst studying to convert qualifications for better jobs. In the meantime, children living on housing estates were more or less left to fend for themselves, outside parents control. Britain was also changing at the time, with fewer opportunities all round, mass unemployment being a sort of generalised phenomenon, and increasing poverty, for Nigerian families and others. The schools you went to were key also - sometimes if parents had cottoned on, they sent their children to better schools, Catholic school networks for Igbo Nigerians, or 'betta' schools outside the area you lived in (if it was rough) also helped to give you options (rather than just joining up with gangs). I'm still plouging through interviews and trying to make sense of it all. But in a word, it all depends - if your parents came early, and you were born say before 1980s maybe your chances of making it Britain were higher, than those who were born to parents who arrived later. But to sum up, British born Nigerians do not have a criminal gene!