nateevs:
It's very easy to make these conclusions Nihilist. The true question is, would Zouma have made it to the first team if he had been with Chelsea since 11?

With Zouma's current skillset for a defender? I think he would.

Zouma's abilty is far greater than what we have had in the academy for the past 5 years. Even Christensen is not close

nateevs:
It's very easy to make these conclusions Nihilist. The true question is, would Zouma have made it to the first team if he had been with Chelsea since 11?

Maybe. Most likely not.

Zouma IS an exceptional player. You don't break into the first team in a top European league aged 16 if you're not exceptional.

That being said, exceptional talent must be nurtured with training and first team football before it can blossom into stardom.

I don't think there any Chelsea manager would feel comfortable giving a rookie 16 year old 20 apps ot the heart of defence in his inaugural season...but St Etienne clearly did.

Because the pressures and expectations are different.

diggz:
^^^^^ I hear you Nihilist and I understand your position on the subject matter however, I still do not agree with you on this!

Just as you can point out players who had to play through lower divisions/ leagues or embark on loan moves to gather much experience before making the senior team, I can point you towards the direction of players who broke into their respective first team without necessarily doing any of the above.

My question for you is;

1) With the amount of youth players back home, and those scattered all over Europe, why haven't we been able to integrate a single youth player into the senior team for over 10years?

There is no way you can prove all this players have been uber useless or not talented enough throughout this period.

To make matters now worse, most clubs would rather develop theirs before considering loanees.

Yes, we all crave to see a world class player/players graduate into the senior team from the youth system however, what if this players won't ever be or turn a world class player, what do we do?

Nihilist, there is little or no guarantee that a youth player will ever become a world class from day one, except for some chosen few. However, many of this players can do fantastic jobs if given the opportunity. If given the opportunity , they can be an integral part of the first team! Maybe not as world class talents but, as players with raw hunger,passion and the spirit/blood of CFC imbedded in them.

Why sell PVA and Bertrand just to end up with baba rahman!? Why do we send players like bamford or solanke on loans just to loan falcao and pato? Of what benefit is it to sign old men like djiblahblahblah, omeruo and hector, when we have home grown youth players like Ake, Chris and kalas waiting to get a chance someday, then loan them out all out?

Truth is, we are always going to suffer in the long run with the way and manner we have been handling this young players.

PvA and Bertrand are utterly mediocre. Completely forgetable players. Bertrand in particular has been kept on the bench at international level by Gibbs, Baines, and Danny rose who aren't exactly incarnations of Roberto Carlos.

They weren't good enough to bench Ashley Cole and weren't good enough to bench a Right Back. Please stop mentioning these guys as examples of 'talent' we've lost.

It makes your entire argument rather weak.

It's easy to come to such conclusions Nihilist. The real question is, what would have become of Zouma, had he been with Chelsea since 12?

Ibime:


If the break is clean, it is easier to fix. That is a very clean break for Ba.

You are right. This what I did to myself two years ago. Still haven't recovered fully. Although you can say I am not seeing the doctor Luke Shaw is seeing.

nateevs:


You are right. This what I did to myself two years ago. Still haven't recovered fully. Although you can say I am not seeing the doctor Luke Shaw is seeing.

geezzz, how do u walk? ....

Faaaaack!!!!!

You jam trailer or trailer jam you?

That's nasty bro. Wish you a full recovery

Nihilist:


Its not about quantity. It's about quality.
For instance, if we look at Bayern now, there are only 2 academy products in the first team ( i won't count Hummels because his education and experience came from elsewhere).
Where are Muller and Alaba's academy mates?
The fact is, if you're going to pick any untested youth, their talent has to be undeniable. It's no coincidence that the likes of Miller and Alaba and Lahm or Schweinsteiger would go on to be world class players...

Plus the Bayern reserve system plays professional footy anyway, and this these guys have more professional experience from an early age and thus have the developmental advantage of their age mates in England.

Secondly the loan system also allows us to develop players for sale,so that the ones we deem not good enough can still be sold for good cash.

THAT is one of problems with CFC and its a MASSIVE one. Looking for the WOW factor in a young player forgetting that it ain't always there at the very first time of asking. And even when its there them go still mess up.

For all we know and no one here can categorically say Rashford is SUPER talented until we saw him play. Irrespective of the reasons why he was played credits to LvG and Manure.....heck he could have used a midfielder as a false 9 or whatever.

Secondly, if and when we play them, its usually out of position. e.g Kakuta. He had the WOW factor, he was supposed to be the next BIG star but what did we do with him? Destroyed him.

Take RLC for instance and I stand to be corrected but imo, the boy is more of an AM than a DM, so why play in that position? A position so glaring to see that he is not interested in playing....fast forward 15 secs...you go dey hear " the boy is lazy..."

Traore, Zouma, all making waves now and godddaaaamit (I stand with nateevs here ) would they have made it to the first team assuming they joined Chelsea aged 11?

Musonda is one brilliant player and I'm personally pleased he is on loan again. Why rot in the reserves when you can give and show so much more?

So don't get me wrong, I support the loan system but things should be done systematically + the risks associated in making bold calls.

Sure the pressure is there...its a BIG club. This is the norm but how can we win 3 FA Youth Cups in a row, 2 UEFA Youth Cups back-2-back and we can't find ONE single player? We can't find a couple of Rashfords?

nateevs:


You are right. This what I did to myself two years ago. Still haven't recovered fully. Although you can say I am not seeing the doctor Luke Shaw is seeing.

You see your life? No be by force to play football at your age, you no gree hear. See what 12 years of playing football without cartilage has done to my knee. I can't even jog anymore, talkless of run.

Na out of season injury full here
Nateevs is lucas leiva,while ibiime is jack wilshere

FBS:

THAT is one of problems with CFC and its a MASSIVE one. Looking for the WOW factor in a young player forgetting that it ain't always there at the very first time of asking. And even when its there them go still mess up.

For all we know and no one here can categorically say Rashford is SUPER talented until we saw him play. Irrespective of the reasons why he was played credits to LvG and Manure.....heck he could have used a midfielder as a false 9 or whatever.

LOL I doubt that anyone of us here works in the backrooms for Manyoo. But best believe that the coaches and backroom staff at United watch Rashford play from day 1, and know who is super talented and who is not. They also know who is ready for a 1st team chance and who isnt.

Secondly, if and when we play them, its usually out of position. e.g Kakuta. He had the WOW factor, he was supposed to be the next BIG star but what did we do with him? Destroyed him.

I don't think we destroyed Kakuta at all. He got his chances...he just did not(or maybe could not) take them. His manager at vitesse is on record castigating him in public for his lack of professionalism. Even the scout who actually discovered him for Lens also pointed out that the boy didn't work hard on the training pitch. Sturridge was from the same set as Kakuta..and was the one who was often played out of position. Look how that worked out.

Take RLC for instance and I stand to be corrected but imo, the boy is more of an AM than a DM, so why play in that position? A position so glaring to see that he is not interested in playing....fast forward 15 secs...you go dey hear " the boy is lazy..."

I don't know about this. The boy himself admits that he is struggling to cope with the rigours of the EPL...which is no surprise given his very limited experience in the EPL and professional football as a whole.

Traore, Zouma, all making waves now and godddaaaamit (I stand with nateevs here grin ) would they have made it to the first team assuming they joined Chelsea aged 11?

Musonda is one brilliant player and I'm personally pleased he is on loan again. Why rot in the reserves when you can give and show so much more?

So don't get me wrong, I support the loan system but things should be done systematically + the risks associated in making bold calls.

Sure the pressure is there...its a BIG club. This is the norm but how can we win 3 FA Youth Cups in a row, 2 UEFA Youth Cups back-2-back and we can't find ONE single player? We can't find a couple of Rashfords?

Like I said earlier, Zouma may have made it to the first team or he may not. Regardless, the boy is an exceptional talent. I think that grouping all these talents together under the umbrella of 'youth' rather trivialises the discussion. All fingers are not equal. Ori yato si Ori.

Zouma is easily the most talented young defender at the club right now. You could pick a random CB from the reserves right now, stick him in a time machine, send him back to 2009 and give him the exact same training and experience as Zouma got, and Zouma will likely still be better.

The key thing to understand in Rashford's case is that the manager's hand was forced. He was a special talent, but the club weren't playing him because he wasn't ready. In fact, they weren't playing him that much in the reserves. He wasn't ready. All of a sudden a freak combination of injuries and suspensions meant that there was no one else to turn to...and then he took his chance.

But look what's happened in their recent transfers.

I think that if you consider how many players we hoover in each year, and factor in how many players are competing for just 11 positions, you will fully appreciate why first team youth have to be exceptional to get that chance. Otherwise they go on loan to gain experience and impress.

The level at which Chelsea competes demands elite talent. We just can't afford to train up babies. That's just the cold hard fact.

Christ!

Una dey try for here. See injuries. Ibime do you even have synovial fluid in that knee? See as the joints dey float

Nihilist:

LOL I doubt that anyone of us here works in the backrooms for Manyoo. But best believe that the coaches and backroom staff at United watch Rashford play from day 1, and know who is super talented and who is not. They also know who is ready for a 1st team chance and who isnt.

lol. We don't but LvG took a gamble and it worked out for them. It was a gamble. 100%. Why can't we go a step further? Youth Champions 3 years in a row and not a decent player? Chelsea's backroom staff must be on something else. Some agbotikuyo weed or something.

Nihilist:

I don't think we destroyed Kakuta at all. He got his chances...he just did not(or maybe could not) take them. His manager at vitesse is on record castigating him in public for his lack of professionalism. Even the scout who actually discovered him for Lens also pointed out that the boy didn't work hard on the training pitch. Sturridge was from the same set as Kakuta..and was the one who was often played out of position. Look how that worked out.

I don't know how many times you actually watched him play but I did. Right from France, through the youth ranks (for the national team) and I tell you, he was destroyed by this club. He is a beast behind the strikers, a position he played in the youth team but he never got the chance even through the loan system. I watched him at Vitesse etc...he was ALWAYS played out of position. Some players can't fulfill their true potentials out of their comfort zones - don't get me even started on the psychological side of things..anyways Kakuta is an example.
Daniel as we know loves to play upfront, a striker. Send him to the wings and you can see his output drop. Why did he leave Mancity for Chelsea and then to Lpool? To play in his preferred position.
Lukaku for instance is one player who hates coming off the bench. You can see his head and shoulders drop. Ko le perform as expected. Start him and he becomes a goal machine. Its all in the head my friend.

Nihilist:

I don't know about this. The boy himself admits that he is struggling to cope with the rigours of the EPL...which is no surprise given his very limited experience in the EPL and professional football as a whole.

Take time to watch him play. He is one fast sonaofbiatch up top. You'd be like, is this RLC?

Nihilist:

Like I said earlier, Zouma may have made it to the first team or he may not. Regardless, the boy is an exceptional talent. I think that grouping all these talents together under the umbrella of 'youth' rather trivialises the discussion. All fingers are not equal. Ori yato si Ori.

Zouma is easily the most talented young defender at the club right now. You could pick a random CB from the reserves right now, stick him in a time machine, send him back to 2009 and give him the exact same training and experience as Zouma got, and Zouma will likely still be better.

Honestly Ola Aina is good. Confident, fast and strong and can operate efficiently as a RB,CB,LB and even on the wings yet the club won't play him even when it was clear that Iva, was having his 'Swansea Moments' for 6 months. Aina aint no Zouma, but had he (Zouma) joined our youth team, we'd be saying the same thing that he is not yet ready.
Were you all not complaining when Zouma was played as a RB? Compare that to when played as CB. The different is CLEAR!

Give them boys a fair chance.

Nihilist:

The key thing to understand in Rashford's case is that the manager's hand was forced. He was a special talent, but the club weren't playing him because he wasn't ready. In fact, they weren't playing him that much in the reserves. He wasn't ready. All of a sudden a freak combination of injuries and suspensions meant that there was no one else to turn to...and then he took his chance.

That's why I said irrespective of the reason why Rashford was picked (that's history now)...he was GIVEN the chance. This is something Chelsea no dey do. We don't take risks. FFS, sports is sometimes about risks. Many great players past and present won't be talked about if those risks were not taken.

Nihilist:

But look what's happened in their recent transfers.
I think that if you consider how many players we hoover in each year, and factor in how many players are competing for just 11 positions, you will fully appreciate why first team youth have to be exceptional to get that chance. Otherwise they go on loan to gain experience and impress.

The level at which Chelsea competes demands elite talent. We just can't afford to train up babies. That's just the cold hard fact.

There is pressure at EVERY top club and we are no different. Mind I remind you that babies grow but you have to nurture them. Believe in them. No one is asking for a first 11 of "babies". 1 or 2 will be more than enough.

Nihilist:
Christ!

Una dey try for here. See injuries. Ibime do you even have synovial fluid in that knee? See as the joints dey float

Hmm. I no sabi wetin be synovial fluid. The ligaments are very strong sha, na just my meniscus (shock absorber) cartilage done erode. The surgeon transplanted some cartilage from another part of the knee and also put in some biosynthetic cartilage but none of it has worked so far after 14 months and 2 operations. Na to pray make Baba God pick my call remain.

Ibime:


Hmm. I no sabi wetin be synovial fluid. The ligaments are very strong sha, na just my meniscus (shock absorber) cartilage done erode. The surgeon transplanted some cartilage from another part of the knee and also put in some biosynthetic cartilage but none of it has worked so far after 14 months and 2 operations. Na to pray make Baba God pick my call remain.

Mehn take it easy.

I think either Crespo or Batistuta had exactly the same problem with almost no cartilage left in the knees after retirement.

Wish you the best of luck and recovery mate.

Nihilist:


PvA and Bertrand are utterly mediocre. Completely forgetable players. Bertrand in particular has been kept on the bench at international level by Gibbs, Baines, and Danny rose who aren't exactly incarnations of Roberto Carlos.

They weren't good enough to bench Ashley Cole and weren't good enough to bench a Right Back. Please stop mentioning these guys as examples of 'talent' we've lost.

It makes your entire argument rather weak.

This is were you got it all wrong! Dunno if you skipped were I mentioned they weren't world class but could be relied on to do a decent job? By the way, talent alone has never cut it and it won't start today.

If I may ask you, how many talent did Leicester parade before winning the league or Portugal before winning the euros? Or Didn't fergie and ManU win several titles parading the likes of brown and O'Shea?

I am even surprised you are bringing Gibbs of all people into this! I am not here to claim or declare this guys as exceptional talents, Far from it. I am only trying to point you towards a different direction(if possible) which is, we should not be quick to write off this young guys!

It is even totally atrocious to loan or sell your youth players,just to go out there to buy or loan useless players as replacements.

Lastly, it is almost a dream to have a perfect super talented full team squad. Kindly do well to check,even the barca,Madrid and Bayern of this world, have had and still do have players not better than the guys you have singlehandedly written off!

In essence, I will only support the loaning out or selling any of this youth players, if and only if, we are getting a better player or those in the first team are actually better than they are. Not baba! Not falcao and definitely not pato type of players.....! Not having to endure ramirez for years and still have Mikel in our books will not cut it for me.

diggz:



This is were you got it all wrong! Dunno if you skipped were I mentioned they weren't world class but could be relied on to do a decent job? By the way, talent alone has never cut it and it won't start today.

PvA and Bertrand are completely unremarkable footballers so I'm not fussed that they were kicked out of the club. The road to football glory is littrered with broken dreams and substandard talent. They have found their levels in midtable and the relegation zone. Let them lie there.

If I may ask you, how many talent did Leicester parade before winning the league or Portugal before winning the euros? Or Didn't fergie and ManU win several titles parading the likes of brown and O'Shea?

Wes Brown and Oshea at their peak are still better than PvA. Heck, up until May, they were actually even playing with PvA in the same team!

Leicester has/had significant talent. We just signed on of their players for 30m. Arsenal went in for Vardy. Mahrez reportedly has a 45m price tag.

To narrow it down to specific positions, Christian Fuchs is one of the most capped players from Austria and is a Champions league regular. He is better than both PvA and Bertrand

I am even surprised you are bringing Gibbs of all people into this! I am not here to claim or declare this guys as exceptional talents, Far from it. I am only trying to point you towards a different direction(if possible) which is, we should not be quick to write off this young guys!

Nobody is writing them off(PvA or Bertrand), but we must also hold realistic expectations for some of these players. The club invests so much time and money into raising these players, and want them to succeed far more than you and I do..but sometimes the players are just not good enough.

It is even totally atrocious to loan or sell your youth players,just to go out there to buy or loan useless players as replacements.

Lastly, it is almost a dream to have a perfect super talented full team squad. Kindly do well to check,even the barca,Madrid and Bayern of this world, have had and still do have players not better than the guys you have singlehandedly written off!

The left backs at Barca Madrid and Bayern are all better than Bertrand or PvA. Alaba is younger than them. Alba is around the same age. Marcelo is older. They are all better than Bertrand or PVA.

I have zero regret that those two were kicked out. They are simply not good enough.

FBS:

THAT is one of problems with CFC and its a MASSIVE one. Looking for the WOW factor in a young player forgetting that it ain't always there at the very first time of asking. And even when its there them go still mess up.

For all we know and no one here can categorically say Rashford is SUPER talented until we saw him play. Irrespective of the reasons why he was played credits to LvG and Manure.....heck he could have used a midfielder as a false 9 or whatever.

Secondly, if and when we play them, its usually out of position. e.g Kakuta. He had the WOW factor, he was supposed to be the next BIG star but what did we do with him? Destroyed him.

Take RLC for instance and I stand to be corrected but imo, the boy is more of an AM than a DM, so why play in that position? A position so glaring to see that he is not interested in playing....fast forward 15 secs...you go dey hear " the boy is lazy..."

Traore, Zouma, all making waves now and godddaaaamit (I stand with nateevs here ) would they have made it to the first team assuming they joined Chelsea aged 11?

Musonda is one brilliant player and I'm personally pleased he is on loan again. Why rot in the reserves when you can give and show so much more?

So don't get me wrong, I support the loan system but things should be done systematically + the risks associated in making bold calls.

Sure the pressure is there...its a BIG club. This is the norm but how can we win 3 FA Youth Cups in a row, 2 UEFA Youth Cups back-2-back and we can't find ONE single player? We can't find a couple of Rashfords?

Away from the Injury topics. Thank you very much FBS.

There is the psychological element to being footballer. For all we know, Zouma may be riding on this - someone showing belief in him and then giving him chance at the right age. It's easy to say Zouma is clearly better than anything we got but someone dared to give him this chance. Plus someone dared to overlook the mistakes he made at an early age. Unless ofcourse we are saying he walked straight into the first team and never made errors.

I don't believe we win back to back to back youth tournaments, yet there isn't one single player good enough? Who declared Rashford a great talent before given a chance? Most of us never heard of him.

Nihilist:
Its not about quantity. It's about quality.

For instance, if we look at Bayern now, there are only 2 academy products in the first team ( i won't count Hummels because his education and experience came from elsewhere).

Where are Muller and Alaba's academy mates?

The fact is, if you're going to pick any untested youth, their talent has to be undeniable. It's no coincidence that the likes of Miller and Alaba and Lahm or Schweinsteiger would go on to be world class players...

Plus the Bayern reserve system plays professional footy anyway, and this these guys have more professional experience from an early age and thus have the developmental advantage of their age mates in England.

Secondly the loan system also allows us to develop players for sale,so that the ones we deem not good enough can still be sold for good cash.

At Bayern over the past 10yrs we have had Muller, Alaba Kroos Badstuber break into the first team. Players like Lahm, Alaba and Kroos went through the loan system and came back to break into the team. Hummels was also went through the loan-buyback scheme until he developed love for Dortmund.

That shows a program with a clear focus. Not all players can make it to the first team but if a club like Chelsea cant point to any success in the loan-buyback program is failing

I have had people here suggest its because EPL is tougher, Thats hilarious. Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico despite being 3 of the best 5 teams in Europe sill have a solid amount of youth in their team. In the same EPL Arsenal have Ramsey, Wilshere Bellerin, Walcott/Oxlade, Spurs has a lot from their academy

Madrid had Carvajal and Casemiro from the loan buyback program among the first 11 who won the CL 2 months ago
Barcelona aside having Busquets, Iniesta and Messi directly from their academy, they have Pique and Alba from the loan and buyback program
Atletico have Saul, Koke, Jimenez from their youths

Chelsea young players have done well in youth CL for some time. No young player was born world class, If you dont have a plan for them they would never grow. Man Utd despite having success with yout didnt have one for Pogba and they have to buy him back after 4yrs at a 120M loss.


Its somehow wen you had Lukaku Bertrand in your academy and few years later you are spending 40M on Bathsuayi and 25M on Baba Rahman both who are inferior to those sold

Nihilist:
Maybe. Most likely not.

Zouma IS an exceptional player. You don't break into the first team in a top European league aged 16 if you're not exceptional.

That being said, exceptional talent must be nurtured with training and first team football before it can blossom into stardom.

I don't think there any Chelsea manager would feel comfortable giving a rookie 16 year old 20 apps ot the heart of defence in his inaugural season...but St Etienne clearly did.

Because the pressures and expectations are different.

lalaboi:

With Zouma's current skillset for a defender? I think he would.
Zouma's abilty is far greater than what we have had in the academy for the past 5 years. Even Christensen is not close

Is Lukaku much different from Zouma? Yet Lukaku is elsewhere. Zouma growing up in a Chelsea thats set on John Terry and co
Zouma would have like others before him sat in the youth team for ages later go out on different loans and probably just stick to his new people/club like Bertrand and Lukaku

nateevs:



Away from the Injury topics. Thank you very much FBS.

There is the psychological element to being footballer. For all we know, Zouma may be riding on this - someone showing belief in him and then giving him chance at the right age. It's easy to say Zouma is clearly better than anything we got but someone dared to give him this chance. Plus someone dared to overlook the mistakes he made at an early age. Unless ofcourse we are saying he walked straight into the first team and never made errors.

.

“And there is so much pressure on the club to be high in the league and do well in the Champions League. They have high expectations for every single game they go into. So it is difficult for the manager to put young players in." - John Swift, Chelsea Youth Player 2015/2016

raumdeuter:



Is Lukaku much different from Zouma? Yet Lukaku is elsewhere. Zouma growing up in a Chelsea thats set on John Terry and co
Zouma would have like others before him sat in the youth team for ages later go out on different loans and probably just stick to his new people/club like Bertrand and Lukaku

I actually don't understand this question.

nateevs:
You are right. This what I did to myself two years ago. Still haven't recovered fully. Although you can say I am not seeing the doctor Luke Shaw is seeing.

Ibime:

You see your life? No be by force to play football at your age, you no gree hear. See what 12 years of playing football without cartilage has done to my knee. I can't even jog anymore, talkless of run.

Hey guys please take it easy if you need to work out to be fit, Just walk briskly or cycle These injuries you are piling up especially bone injuries now, In the next 20-30yrs they would comeback to hurt.

When Nihilist and FBS in their 70s are just marrying new 25yrs olds and going for geriatrics Olympics you dont want to be in wheelchair or battling arthritis and just watching their sextapes you want to be participating

Nihilist:
I actually don't understand this question.

Talent wise, Is Lukaku much different from Zouma?

If Zouma had grown up in Chelsea he would have faced the unmovable Terry Cahill, Ivanovic and Luiz at their peaks and would have probably gone on different loans and end up like Lukaku

Nihilist:
“And there is so much pressure on the club to be high in the league and do well in the Champions League. They have high expectations for every single game they go into. So it is difficult for the manager to put young players in." - John Swift, Chelsea Youth Player 2015/2016

Is the pressure more than those in Madrid or Barcelona. Yet Casemiro, Carvajal, Alba, Pique Busquets Iniesta have made it into the first team while still doing well in the CL

Moreover if this pressure is the reason and condition wont change then whats the purpose of running and acquiring hundreds of youth players incurring expenses on them and having nothing to show for it in another 10yrs

raumdeuter:



Hey guys please take it easy if you need to work out to be fit, Just walk briskly or cycle These injuries you are piling up especially bone injuries now, In the next 20-30yrs they would comeback to hurt.

When Nihilist and FBS in their 70s are just marrying new 25yrs olds and going for geriatrics Olympics you dont want to be in wheelchair or battling arthritis and just watching their sextapes you want to be participating

Lol my own injury was worse than these guys own.

I had multiple fractures on both legs, broken ribs and broken Pelvis from a car accident. I was bedridden for 6 months with pins in both legs. Physio work and exercise took another 2 years.

I was lucky because I had private health insurance sef.

raumdeuter:


Is the pressure more than those in Madrid or Barcelona. Yet Casemiro, Carvajal, Alba, Pique Busquets Iniesta have made it into the first team while still doing well in the CL

Moreover if this pressure is the reason and condition wont change then whats the purpose of running and acquiring hundreds of youth players incurring expenses on them and having nothing to show for it in another 10yrs

Yes because all those guys have the same talent level as John Swift and Ryan Bertrand...and none of them had to go and look for first team opportunities elsewhere first...

Nihilist:
Lol my own injury was worse than these guys own.
I had multiple fractures on both legs, broken ribs and broken Pelvis from a car accident. I was bedridden for 6 months with pins in both legs. Physio work and exercise took another 2 years.

I was lucky because I had private health insurance sef.

WHy you nokuku go Afghanistan and pick IED with bare hand? So na only nihilist and diggz go dey fit to marry young wife in their 70's

raumdeuter:


Talent wise, Is Lukaku much different from Zouma?

If Zouma had grown up in Chelsea he would have faced the unmovable Terry Cahill, Ivanovic and Luiz at their peaks and would have probably gone on different loans and end up like Lukaku

Of Course Lukaku has a higher profile now than Zouma...are you kidding?

Lukaku wan't blocked by talent...he was blocked by Jose.

Don't trivialise the debate by suggesting that the mistake made with Lukaku was made with everyone else.

raumdeuter:


WHy you nokuku go Afghanistan and pick IED with bare hand? So na only nihilist and diggz go dey fit to marry young wife in their 70's

That was a looooong time ago. My legs dey kanmpe

raumdeuter:



Is Lukaku much different from Zouma? Yet Lukaku is elsewhere. Zouma growing up in a Chelsea thats set on John Terry and co
Zouma would have like others before him sat in the youth team for ages later go out on different loans and probably just stick to his new people/club like Bertrand and Lukaku

We all know the story of the impatient Lukaku. There was only 1 striking option for grabs compared to 2 for Zouma where he only had Cahill/Terry/half-baked-Ivanovic for places.

Lukaku only spent 1 full season (debut season) and then decided he wanted to play every game and he was just 20 then (I think). We cannot say for real if he would have gotten a chance in the first team or not but in the season he went on loan at Everton, He himself confessed to pushing for a permanent move than the club wanting to sell him.

Nihilist:
Yes because all those guys have the same talent level as John Swift and Ryan Bertrand...and none of them had to go and look for first team opportunities elsewhere first...

Carvajal had to go to Leverkusen, Casemiro had to go to Porto, Pique went to Man Utd, Alba went to Valencia but all came back because the team has a solid plan in place.

Barcelona just sold Halilovic to Hamburg with a firm buy back, Madrid sold Morata with a buyback

Why are these top clubs having more success with their youth players than Chelsea? Either there is a big problem with the team planning or with the recruitment in the first place that thought previous first teamers at other clubs like Salah, Victor Moses, Marko Marin, Cuadrado, Christian Atsu should just be sent on loans all over the globe