raumdeuter:
Mahrez another winger? You Wan make ibime vex

Sincerely, I doubt anybody go vex for this one especially when all the players on that wing done refuse to own am.

When is Oscar and Mikel leaving again?

Ibime:


I take Mahrez and sell all our other wingers.

Exactly bros! I wonder why Diggz keeps asking what we are going to do with the rest? There's nothing wrong with a transfer policy that targets Mahrez. When did we stop pursuing genuine talents because we have a bunch of average ones? If that ever happened, that's what we should frown at.

In that attack, Sell cuadrado, Marin and Moses sign mahrez only. We will be left with Willian, Pedro, hazard and mahrez. We need quality not quantity.

In defense, sign koulibaly and a quality LB( we missed out on shaw, he's a cfc fan from birth) move Dave to his natural position(RB). Dave would've been more beast by now if he were to be playing his natural position.

We don't need to sign in midfield area for now; Oscar, fab, Kante, matic and Obi are potent enough to do the job come next season.

nateevs:


Exactly bros! I wonder why Diggz keeps asking what we are going to do with the rest? There's nothing wrong with a transfer policy that targets Mahrez. When did we stop pursuing genuine talents because we have a bunch of average ones? If that ever happened, that's what we should frown at.

I am not against us getting mahrez. I only wish for us to tidy loose ends by getting rid of players who no longer fit into our future plans.

Why are we not looking @ Aaron Cresswell?

Signing Mahrez isn't bad, but signing him on a limited budget is sick

If we gonna sign Mahrez and still sign the needed players,,no P
But if we are spending the money meant for a CB, Lb and DM on another winger, then I have a problem with that

Kolade354:
Why are we not looking @ Aaron Cresswell?

The same reason we have Rahman, Mikel and Oscar in our team

Nihilist:


I think that there are actually two issues being discussed here.

1. RLC has the talent and can come good - I cannot really speak for this. I have not seen him at youth level and his performances at EPL left much to be desired.

2. RLC is fantastic behind a striker, look at his last game for proof.

I think that I should stress again that my main discussion today has been on point number 2. I am not impressed even if he scored 10 against those dead Austrian players. He most likely earns more than all of them plus their coach combined.

I like the line that you stressed at the end of your post. RLC is ONLY 20. But so is Dele Alli. Pierre Emille Holjberg is the same age.

It may seem cynical, but the kind of 20 year olds I think we need are the ones who force us to think how mature they are for their age, and not the ones that hide behind their age as their excuse for lack of development.

Compare what people meant last season when they said "He's only 20" about Martial to what you meant about RLC and my point becomes obvious.

Now I understand that the likes of Martial and co have had opportunities to play first team football that RLC might not have had...which is why I want him to go out on loan so badly.

The likes of Ake and Lukaku were the ones who asked to go on loan to develop further. . Jose mentioned his name with the likes of Solanke etc who could be stars of the future. RLC is the only one of that group sat on the bench stagnating.

I'm not suggesting RLC is not as proactive with his career as those other guys. because I'm not privy to what goes on behind the scenes, but his body language on the pitch regularly seems to portray the image of person wey don bellefull

All I see on the pitch is a lazy looking guy, who I'm told has bags of talent that I've never seen.

Dazall.

Like I said, you are not saying about RLC that no one doesn't know. What is surprising is denying the talent he has.

I for one, really hope Conte does not view young talent through the same eyeglass. This will be catastrophic. Same way Jose was viewing Chalobah seasons ago. On that subject, do you know Nathaniel Chalobah Nihilist? If you did, he's probably on your "he's not special" list. However, this video below (I have posted this once here) shows you what Nathaniel was doing at Zola's Watford 3 seasons ago until he was not integrated by Jose and sent out on a series of useless loans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNiE5IlBTdM



Now, this kid may not have shown this composure on the ball consistently, this does not mean he does not deserve chance after chance to show he does.

Tell me Chalobah cannot do a job on this back of this video. Has Dele Alli shown more technique, composure and talent than Chalobah? If Dele was a Chelsea player, would he be in any first team now?

[quote author=hensben] in that attack, Sell cuadrado, Marin and Moses sign mahrez only. We will be left with Willian, Pedro, hazard and mahrez. We need quality not quantity.

I am totally in support of your thoughts above.

We don't need to sign in midfield area for now; Oscar, fab, Kante, matic and Obi are potent enough to do the job come next season.

I don't think it's a good idea for us to still keep Oscar and Obi o...! Just my opinion tho...! We are far better with our youth players filling those space,if we can't get new players to replace those guys.

[quote author=hensben] in that attack, Sell cuadrado, Marin and Moses sign mahrez only. We will be left with Willian, Pedro, hazard and mahrez. We need quality not quantity.

I am totally in support of your thoughts above.

We don't need to sign in midfield area for now; Oscar, fab, Kante, matic and Obi are potent enough to do the job come next season.

I don't think it's a good idea for us to still keep Oscar and Obi o...! Just my opinion tho...! We are far better with our youth players filling those space,if we can't get new players to replace those guys.

bigkesh:
Signing Mahrez isn't bad, but signing him on a limited budget is sick

If we gonna sign Mahrez and still sign the needed players,,no P
But if we are spending the money meant for a CB, Lb and DM on another winger, then I have a problem with that

Kokomaye = True Talk!

diggz:
When is Oscar and Mikel leaving again?

After Buhari's regime.

bigkesh:
Signing Mahrez isn't bad, but signing him on a limited budget is sick

If we gonna sign Mahrez and still sign the needed players,,no P
But if we are spending the money meant for a CB, Lb and DM on another winger, then I have a problem with that

It's not that simple. The club's transfer targets may not materialise for a number of reasons. What is not in denial are the following facts:

1. We have a manager who knows how to build a team and
2. The club has shown the desire to rebuild.

So we cannot criticise the club in this transfer window for lack of trying. If transfer targets don't materialise and we opt for Plan B, then buying Mahrez at the expense of those positions may not always be a bad idea.

nateevs:


Like I said, you are not saying about RLC that no one doesn't know. What is surprising is denying the talent he has.

I'm not sure how to answer this one bros. I've said repeatedly that I don't watch reserve games so I haven't seen RLC at his 'best'. When I've seen him play in the league, he has occupied a spectrum ranging from utter crap to meh.

I mean if the most diehard proponent of youth integraton on our thread had this to say, then who is nihilist to say different.

bigkesh:
Rlc is a disgrace to the academy......
I mean tackle and be serious,that's not confidence but stupidity.......

Colkett,Ake,Musonda,Boga,Solanke and co are dying for this.......

Never liked him anyway...... The problem is if he fails then he will affect the others

Easy big fella

On that subject, do you know Nathaniel Chalobah Nihilist? If you did, he's probably on your "he's not special" list. However, this video below (I have posted this once here) shows you what Nathaniel was doing at Zola's Watford 3 seasons ago until he was not integrated by Jose and sent out on a series of useless loans.

Well I watched Watford a couple of times that year. I watched that playoff semifinal against Leicester and watched Deeney break my heart live. Now let me ask you something. Do you remember Almen Abdi? That was Watford's main playmaker that year and the season after. They got promoted and he cant make the team. Ikechi Anya was one of their superstars that year...now he's lucky if he sees a shirt at Left Back. Joel Ekstarand was a defensive mainstay that year and the year after. I don't think he even played last season. Matej Vydra was arguably their best player in thier last season in the champo. I think he's still rotting in the watford reserves.

By Contrast Troy Deeney made the jump. Huerlho Gomes made the Jump.

Chalobah got his chances. Napoli are a big side competing in Europe - what happened? How come he didn't make the Jump? How come did relatively ok in the championship with 3 different teams but floundered when he got to the big boys?

Sometimes, the Championship is where certain players belong.

Tell me Chalobah cannot do a job on this back of this video. Has Dele Alli shown more technique, composure and talent than Chalobah? If Dele was a Chelsea player, would he be in any first team now?

These are the kind of yarns that irritate me. Dele Alli is not an academy player. Dele was playing in the lower leagues as a professional. When he got his chance he took it. When spurs played madrid in a friendly that year, Alli sharply went to nutmeg Modric. Pochettino said that he was very surprised when he saw Alli in prseason that year because he was fitter than all the Spurs players. Please don't insult Alli by comparing him to Chalobah.

You know how many player of the month Alli has won? You think it's beans to make PFA team of the year in two consecutive seasons?
[img]http://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgWgJictf0TSfLXJf13XUwzTiDr4KsQiVagr-AJxlUFCxqnunY[/img]

diggz:


Well we all can still remember how that ended tho..!

MahreZ won't actually be a bad addition if he brings his form of last season along with him. However, what are we going to do with the likes of caudrado,moses, Marko Marin, Pedro,traore and salah?

The way we have been conducting business for the past years is really worrisome.

Do we still own Salah and Marin

Nihilist:


I'm not sure how to answer this one bros. I've said repeatedly that I don't watch reserve games so I haven't seen RLC at his 'best'. When I've seen him play in the league, he has occupied a spectrum ranging from utter crap to meh.

I mean if the most diehard proponent of youth integraton on our thread had this to say, then who is nihilist to say different.

Easy big fella



Well I watched Watford a couple of times that year. I watched that playoff semifinal against Leicester and watched Deeney break my heart live. Now let me ask you something. Do you remember Almen Abdi? That was Watford's main playmaker that year and the season after. They got promoted and he cant make the team. Ikechi Anya was one of their superstars that year...now he's lucky if he sees a shirt at Left Back. Joel Ekstarand was a defensive mainstay that year and the year after. I don't think he even played last season. Matej Vydra was arguably their best player in thier last season in the champo. I think he's still rotting in the watford reserves.

By Contrast Troy Deeney made the jump. Huerlho Gomes made the Jump.

Chalobah got his chances. Napoli are a big side competing in Europe - what happened? How come he didn't make the Jump? How come did relatively ok in the championship with 3 different teams but floundered when he got to the big boys?

Sometimes, the Championship is where certain players belong.



These are the kind of yarns that irritate me. Dele Alli is not an academy player. Dele was playing in the lower leagues as a professional. When he got his chance he took it. When spurs played madrid in a friendly that year, Alli sharply went to nutmeg Modric. Pochettino said that he was very surprised when he saw Alli in prseason that year because he was fitter than all the Spurs players. Please don't insult Alli by comparing him to Chalobah.

You know how many player of the month Alli has won? You think it's beans to make PFA team of the year in two consecutive seasons?
[img]http://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgWgJictf0TSfLXJf13XUwzTiDr4KsQiVagr-AJxlUFCxqnunY[/img]

You are approaching the business of football with very simplistic ideas - the player either makes it or not. That's not how it works fella. There is also the psychological element to it. And the psychological element can be tutored, nurtured and made to grow. All very dependent on the gaffer who takes control. Dele Alli does not have more talent than Lewis Baker. Anyone can take me up on this.

In fact, Dele Alli has no more talent than Jeremie Boga and Charlie Colkett. FACT! Do your research mate and you will find out Dele was recommended to Chelsea by Eddie Newton but Chelsea declined citing that he was not better than what we already have. These are guys who are paid to sniff talent. This tells you that on the basis of talent alone, Dele was not doing what had not been seen.

Instead, what Dele went on to have, is a manager who is reputed for the development of young players. One who does not believe that Manager's success/failure depends on whether a youngster gets game time.

I ask again, do you think Dele Alli would make PFA player of the year if he were at Chelsea?



Then there is the tactical element to football. Talented footballers may or may not fit into systems for a variety of reasons. One player making the jump may be for a tactical reason. Another not making it does not automatically translate to average talent. Tell me what Didier Drogba was doing at 20.

I digress. For reasons of not making this over elaborate, I will stick to the basic argument.

How do you think Nathaniel feels when he shows up at a club he is loaned to and the manager responds with "I never heard about him" ? Because that is exactly what happened. The Napoli manager had no idea about the loan. When a manager does not know about your loan move, it means simply he doesn't need you. Simple as! Your chances are slim; especially as a 20-year-old. There are documented quotes on the internet, of managers who claim they will not waste time developing talent for another team. Especially ones they cannot buy and retain. The player leaves and it leaves them empty. How do you think this affects loan moves? Is it still as simple?

Compare that with Alli who had an arm around him. Why won't he go out and nutmeg someone? At this stage in a young footballers' life, while a large part of making it is about the size of the talent, it is mainly about the mental preparedness and capacity of the player. And only the first team manager can give this to the kid. No 20-year-old is born with this.

You want to compare that to Jose who will not play a young player in a dead-rubber game then when losing 2-0 in a crucial PL game, he throws in Kennedy, RLC and Traore for the last 15 mins, hoping they will get something. What sort of stupidity is that?



Flash back to 2014, Jose just arrived. Chasing the league. Game away to Liverpool. Crucial game. Possible league decider. All Chelsea defenders were out for this tie. In came a young man in the name Tomas Kalas but I must stress, ONLY because our Mr Jose Mourinho did not have a choice. Kalas (then only 20), paired at CB with Branislav. 'This is your chance son'. . . .We all said. 'Go out there and prove yourself. Do it for all young Chelsea players'.

And he did just that. It was a game to remember. And all those who watched will never forget the performance he (Tomas) put in to stop the then blazing SAS. He almost scored a goal for himself. He was so good, popular websites gave him an 8 for his overall display. Talk about taking few chances. Or so we thought. . . . That will go down in history as Tomas Kalas' last game for Chelsea. Despite that cameo and huge effort put into securing an unlikely 3pts for Jose, he was shipped out on loan in the summer by the same manager.

And you are here telling me Dele Alli took his chances.


FACT! If Dele Alli was a Chelsea player, his confidence will be shot to bits and he will be on loan at the moment to Vitesse. You claim we don't have special talent but the Chelsea academy is reputed for winning back-to-back Youth FA Cups and displacing the best of Europe's academy in all age categories? How is it possible to achieve this consistently without the top-of-the-range talent required to make it to the top level?

Dele AllI was in tge PFA team of the year before he even went to spurs sir. So you cannot ascribe his success to Pochettino

Alli is not an academy player. He was a first team member of the MK Dons side that romped to the league 1 title that year. The same team that put 4 past a Manyoo side in the FA Cup.

OK Alli does not have more talent that Colkett, Baker and even my mother. Yet Alli is an integral part of a Spurs side that doesn't have a single academy player outside Kane in the first team. And he met Kane as a star there. The manager reputed for developing Young players could not develop a single academy player. Alli leapfrogged the likes of Bentaleb and Mason in his first season, and those are academy grads who were playing first team footy for spurs the year before...is it beans?

I don't see how a loan to Napoli is a blow to any serious player's self esteem. Napoli are not even on the same spectrum as Chelsea. If you can't handle the mental pressure there, is it now at Chelsea that your head will be correct?

Nateevs please please please like James Brown, take a chill pill.

If you've got it you, you've got it - there's nothing simplistic about that. You guys said the same thing about Bamford. You even said he was a crespo kind of player. He shined at championship level, moved to two EPL teams and flopped like a high jump.

I'm sure it was the psychological effect that kept him from scoring goals too.

If you want to make an argument that Chalobah is a late bloomer like Drogba, then you might have a point.

I suppose the question in that case is how long should we wait for him to bloom? A year? 2? 10? A lifetime?

Ori yato si ori sir Nateevs. Alli is better than anything you can see in that academy. That's a fact. Give that boy his props.

I would also like to point out that Jose had never heard of Zouma when we signed him. Look.up his interview.

Zouma made sure thar Jose knew who he was. Zouma was 19.

Ori yato si Ori mehn. Forget story.

Nihilist:
Dele AllI was in tge PFA team of the year before he even went to spurs sir. So you cannot ascribe his success to Pochettino

Alli is not an academy player. He was a first team member of the MK Dons side that romped to the league 1 title that year. The same team that put 4 past a Manyoo side in the FA Cup.

OK Alli does not have more talent that Colkett, Baker and even my mother. Yet Alli is an integral part of a Spurs side that doesn't have a single academy player outside Kane in the first team. And he met Kane as a star there. The manager reputed for developing Young players could not develop a single academy player. Alli leapfrogged the likes of Bentaleb and Mason in his first season, and those are academy grads who were playing first team footy for spurs the year before...is it beans?

I don't see how a loan to Napoli is a blow to any serious player's self esteem. Napoli are not even on the same spectrum as Chelsea. If you can't handle the mental pressure there, is it now at Chelsea that your head will be correct?

Nateevs please please please like James Brown, take a chill pill.

If you've got it you, you've got it - there's nothing simplistic about that. You guys said the same thing about Bamford. You even said he was a crespo kind of player. He shined at championship level, moved to two EPL teams and flopped like a high jump.

I'm sure it was the psychological effect that kept him from scoring goals too.

If you want to make an argument that Chalobah is a late bloomer like Drogba, then you might have a point.

I suppose the question in that case is how long should we wait for him to bloom? A year? 2? 10? A lifetime?

Ori yato si ori sir Nateevs. Alli is better than anything you can see in that academy. That's a fact. Give that boy his props.

I am not ascribing Dele's PFA success to Pochetino. I am saying even though Suprs bought him for £5m and loaned him back, when he came back to Spurs, it was down to Pochetino to some up the confidence to play him.

Neither am I calling Dele an academy player. I am only comparing him to our own 20-year-olds.

It will be of no use continuing to argue this point. We will go around in circles until a one manager comes through who has the balls to take one young player and make a pro out of him. Then I wonder what you would say. Did Charlie Musonda not go to Spain and become their best player in half a season? Was he not here playing under Jose's nose for two seasons? If Charlie was playing for MK Dons and Spurs bought him for £5m and then went on to the first team and did wonders, you will be saying the same thing.


Why are you mute on Kalas?

Nihilist:
I would also like to point out that Jose had never heard of Zouma when we signed him. Look.up his interview.

Zouma made sure thar Jose knew who he was. Zouma was 19.

Ori yato si Ori mehn. Forget story.

Sorry but that is a flimsy example. Kurt Zouma came in at £12m. That's the same amount (inflation aside) that we paid for Arjen Robben. As a matter of fact, Zouma will be given an acid bath if he wasn't closer to the first team than all academy players. And so will Jose for not playing him. Why did he cost £12m ?


And also, you bringing up this example, means you didn't digest totally the crux of the argument. Loan player vs permanent.

nateevs:



I am not ascribing Dele's PFA success to Pochetino. I am saying even though Suprs bought him for £5m and loaned him back, when he came back to Spurs, it was down to Pochetino to some up the confidence to play him.

Neither am I calling Dele an academy player. I am only comparing him to our own 20-year-olds.

It will be of no use continuing to argue this point. We will go around in circles until a one manager comes through who has the balls to take one young player and make a pro out of him. Then I wonder what you would say. Did Charlie Musonda not go to Spain and become their best player in half a season? Was he not here playing under Jose's nose for two seasons? If Charlie was playing for MK Dons and Spurs bought him for £5m and then went on to the first team and did wonders, you will be saying the same thing.


Why are you mute on Kalas?

I thought we were discussing Chalobah and Alli. Musonda and Kalas is a different discussion. I didn't not know you were trying to have a wider discussion about youth players.

In Alli's case, this is not about 'having confidence to play him'.

Alli scored 16 goals for MK Don's in his final season from midfield and made PFA team of the year.

It is not Pochettino's 'confidence to play him' that made Alli displace Bentaleb from midfield and later push Eriksen out of the number 10 position.

It is not Pochettino's confidence to play Alli that made him contribute 19 league goals in his debut season.

It is not Pochettino's confidence to play Alli that made Alli score a long range Golazo against France on his first start for England

It is not Pochettino's confidence to play Alli that made Alli the PFA Young player of the year and the youngest member of the PFA team of the year in his debut season.


It's like buying Diego Costa and then saying Jose had confidence in him that's why he scored 19 goals in his debut season

When you're good, you're good.Pochettino did not give him a chance - look up the interview- Alli turned up to the Spurs training ground already better than the people there. Poch would have been foolish not to play Alli sef.


Alli is better than Colket Baker and any other name you mention from that academy. That is that.

nateevs:



Sorry but that is a flimsy example. Kurt Zouma came in at £12m. That's the same amount (inflation aside) that we paid for Arjen Robben. As a matter of fact, Zouma will be given an acid bath if he wasn't closer to the first team than all academy players. And so will Jose for not playing him. Why did he cost £12m ?


And also, you bringing up this example, means you didn't digest totally the crux of the argument. Loan player vs permanent.

This example is very valid.Zouma's price tag is irrelevant. Afterall the likes of Filipe Luis and Baba cost more and did not see shirt.

I'm just pointing out that the excuse that the manager did not know Chalobah is irrelevant -how many managers know the players they get? Does Conte know him now?

So why should you say that he was psychologically damaged because Napoli manager did not know him?

So once any manager knows Chalobah, he will start to play well abi?

Nihilist:

It is not Pochettino's 'confidence to play him' that made Alli displace Bentaleb from midfield and later push Eriksen out of the number 10 position.

Bentaleb was injured mate for almost all of last season. By the time he returned the team was set and fighting for title. Bentalebs main competition is Dembele. It was Chadli that suffered at Allis hand because Eriksen was pushed wide to his position while Alli took the AM position.

Infact, I like that guy Bentaleb. I for like make Chelsea sign am.


@ Nateevs,

Most of your points are agreeable. The fact is a manager has no incentive to play a player on loan that the club does not make any money from. That is why Christensen and Musonda had to have 2 years and 18 months loan respectively, because no manager is interested in developing another club's player. That is why Ake's feat last season was so outstanding.

I was also thinking about that boy Jeremie Boga's loan to Rennes last season. Boga is a decent player, a right-footed right-winger. But what chance did he stand loaning him to Rennes to compete for the same right wing position against Ousmane Dembele, one of the hottest youngsters in Europe in the same position who Rennes were trying to develop and sell on for megabucks?

If we want to play 4-4-2, please buy Carlos Tevez and collect that £50m for Costa.

He is a perfect 4-4-2 striker and Boca can't afford him/don't want him no more. They are virtually giving him away for free.

Nihilist:


I thought we were discussing Chalobah and Alli. Musonda and Kalas is a different discussion. I didn't not know you were trying to have a wider discussion about youth players.

In Alli's case, this is not about 'having confidence to play him'.

Alli scored 16 goals for MK Don's in his final season from midfield and made PFA team of the year.

It is not Pochettino's 'confidence to play him' that made Alli displace Bentaleb from midfield and later push Eriksen out of the number 10 position.

It is not Pochettino's confidence to play Alli that made him contribute 19 league goals in his debut season.

It is not Pochettino's confidence to play Alli that made Alli score a long range Golazo against France on his first start for England

It is not Pochettino's confidence to play Alli that made Alli the PFA Young player of the year and the youngest member of the PFA team of the year in his debut season.


It's like buying Diego Costa and then saying Jose had confidence in him that's why he scored 19 goals in his debut season

When you're good, you're good.Pochettino did not give him a chance - look up the interview- Alli turned up to the Spurs training ground already better than the people there. Poch would have been foolish not to play Alli sef.


Alli is better than Colket Baker and any other name you mention from that academy. That is that.

Mate what are you on about? Dele Alli scored 16 goals for MK Dons and that's automatically why Pochetino has to play him? Really?

2012/13 Patrick Bamford scored 18 goals for MK Dons. 2014/15 Patrick Bamford score 17 goals for Middlesborough. Same level of football Dele Alli was playing at. Guess what the difference is? Do I still need to spell it out? Well I will . . . One signed with Chelsea.

Whether you want to gloss over this detail or not, there is the extra hurdle of the Manager of the PL side making that crucial decision - deciding to play the player. No matter how much you ridicule this, it is an important element in the life-cycle of the development of a young player. That is a massive psychological boost given to Dele which has allowed to him to build on his previous success.

At Chelsea, we went to buy Eto'o and brought Didier back then sent Patrick back on loan.

What is hilarious is that I know you are going to come back and tell me that Patrick Bamford is not as talented as we think (after 37 goals). Yet in the same vein argue that it is in fact, Dele's ability, that is responsible for scoring 16 goals for MK Dons. Seriously?

You think Dele would have walked into the Jose Chelsea side and gone on to become who is his now? Jose was manager of Chelsea when Dele was recommended to Chelsea by Eddie Newton, why didn't Jose veto and ask for him? Were all the accolades hidden to the echelon at Chelsea? Chelsea declined but Jose did not want. Chelsea and Jose reportedly categorized Dele as, talent-wise, not being anything better than what we've got in the academy. And somehow, you are now trying to tell me Dele had been extra special all along?

That's to tell you that it is not based on talent alone but that, in fact, the manager - Pochetino in this case - that should take the glory for giving the young boy confidence to do it.


These are the inconsistent decisions you reach when you apply simplistic ideas to youth development.

Nihilist:


This example is very valid.Zouma's price tag is irrelevant. Afterall the likes of Filipe Luis and Baba cost more and did not see shirt.

I'm just pointing out that the excuse that the manager did not know Chalobah is irrelevant -how many managers know the players they get? Does Conte know him now?

So why should you say that he was psychologically damaged because Napoli manager did not know him?

So once any manager knows Chalobah, he will start to play well abi?

How can price tag not be relevant? How many kids at 19 are sold for £12m? In fact, in football after talent is considered, age is a direct reflection of transfer value. Where that ceases to be the case, the subject in question falls under exceptional. You cannot expect a 19-year-old Messi to cost the same as Charlie Musonda. Why? Exceptional.

So when a Messi at 19 costs his new team £12m, he goes there, in the worst case scenario to be at the door of the first team and in the best case scenario, to play. Not to announce himself to the manager. He's already known quantity. Very different from the case of Chalobah.

Why are we bring Luis into this? Does Zouma(19) at £12m and Luis(28) at £12m mean the same thing in football?

So why should you say that he was psychologically damaged because Napoli manager did not know him?

It's not what I say, it is what can happen. Moreover, I tried to push the point of the manager having no need for the player (and hence no requirement to field him). I tried to make that clearer than the "psychology" point of view but you have clearly omitted that.

Now deliberately fusing the psychological element into it, when a manager declares that they have no imperative to develop players from other clubs, and furthermore states that you (loan player at 20) stand no chance, one will be grossly simplistic to claim that this is incapable of denting a 20-year-old's confidence, thereby affecting them psychologically.

How is this not clear?

dmcdad:
Wetin you dey try talk? You mean say she be crayfish?

Na you talk ooo. Lol!

Nihilist:


I'm not sure how to answer this one bros. I've said repeatedly that I don't watch reserve games so I haven't seen RLC at his 'best'. When I've seen him play in the league, he has occupied a spectrum ranging from utter crap to meh.

I mean if the most diehard proponent of youth integraton on our thread had this to say, then who is nihilist to say different.

Easy big fella



Well I watched Watford a couple of times that year. I watched that playoff semifinal against Leicester and watched Deeney break my heart live. Now let me ask you something. Do you remember Almen Abdi? That was Watford's main playmaker that year and the season after. They got promoted and he cant make the team. Ikechi Anya was one of their superstars that year...now he's lucky if he sees a shirt at Left Back. Joel Ekstarand was a defensive mainstay that year and the year after. I don't think he even played last season. Matej Vydra was arguably their best player in thier last season in the champo. I think he's still rotting in the watford reserves.

By Contrast Troy Deeney made the jump. Huerlho Gomes made the Jump.

Chalobah got his chances. Napoli are a big side competing in Europe - what happened? How come he didn't make the Jump? How come did relatively ok in the championship with 3 different teams but floundered when he got to the big boys?

Sometimes, the Championship is where certain players belong.



These are the kind of yarns that irritate me. Dele Alli is not an academy player. Dele was playing in the lower leagues as a professional. When he got his chance he took it. When spurs played madrid in a friendly that year, Alli sharply went to nutmeg Modric. Pochettino said that he was very surprised when he saw Alli in prseason that year because he was fitter than all the Spurs players. Please don't insult Alli by comparing him to Chalobah.

You know how many player of the month Alli has won? You think it's beans to make PFA team of the year in two consecutive seasons?
[img]http://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgWgJictf0TSfLXJf13XUwzTiDr4KsQiVagr-AJxlUFCxqnunY[/img]

Chai I love this.
Nihilist and nateevs hit meee!

Bigkesh and Lana1 take note.

nateevs:



You are approaching the business of football with very simplistic ideas - the player either makes it or not. That's not how it works fella. There is also the psychological element to it. And the psychological element can be tutored, nurtured and made to grow. All very dependent on the gaffer who takes control. Dele Alli does not have more talent than Lewis Baker. Anyone can take me up on this.

In fact, Dele Alli has no more talent than Jeremie Boga and Charlie Colkett. FACT! Do your research mate and you will find out Dele was recommended to Chelsea by Eddie Newton but Chelsea declined citing that he was not better than what we already have. These are guys who are paid to sniff talent. This tells you that on the basis of talent alone, Dele was not doing what had not been seen.

Instead, what Dele went on to have, is a manager who is reputed for the development of young players. One who does not believe that Manager's success/failure depends on whether a youngster gets game time.

I ask again, do you think Dele Alli would make PFA player of the year if he were at Chelsea?



Then there is the tactical element to football. Talented footballers may or may not fit into systems for a variety of reasons. One player making the jump may be for a tactical reason. Another not making it does not automatically translate to average talent. Tell me what Didier Drogba was doing at 20.

I digress. For reasons of not making this over elaborate, I will stick to the basic argument.

How do you think Nathaniel feels when he shows up at a club he is loaned to and the manager responds with "I never heard about him" ? Because that is exactly what happened. The Napoli manager had no idea about the loan. When a manager does not know about your loan move, it means simply he doesn't need you. Simple as! Your chances are slim; especially as a 20-year-old. There are documented quotes on the internet, of managers who claim they will not waste time developing talent for another team. Especially ones they cannot buy and retain. The player leaves and it leaves them empty. How do you think this affects loan moves? Is it still as simple?

Compare that with Alli who had an arm around him. Why won't he go out and nutmeg someone? At this stage in a young footballers' life, while a large part of making it is about the size of the talent, it is mainly about the mental preparedness and capacity of the player. And only the first team manager can give this to the kid. No 20-year-old is born with this.

You want to compare that to Jose who will not play a young player in a dead-rubber game then when losing 2-0 in a crucial PL game, he throws in Kennedy, RLC and Traore for the last 15 mins, hoping they will get something. What sort of stupidity is that?



Flash back to 2014, Jose just arrived. Chasing the league. Game away to Liverpool. Crucial game. Possible league decider. All Chelsea defenders were out for this tie. In came a young man in the name Tomas Kalas but I must stress, ONLY because our Mr Jose Mourinho did not have a choice. Kalas (then only 20), paired at CB with Branislav. 'This is your chance son'. . . .We all said. 'Go out there and prove yourself. Do it for all young Chelsea players'.

And he did just that. It was a game to remember. And all those who watched will never forget the performance he (Tomas) put in to stop the then blazing SAS. He almost scored a goal for himself. He was so good, popular websites gave him an 8 for his overall display. Talk about taking few chances. Or so we thought. . . . That will go down in history as Tomas Kalas' last game for Chelsea. Despite that cameo and huge effort put into securing an unlikely 3pts for Jose, he was shipped out on loan in the summer by the same manager.

And you are here telling me Dele Alli took his chances.


FACT! If Dele Alli was a Chelsea player, his confidence will be shot to bits and he will be on loan at the moment to Vitesse. You claim we don't have special talent but the Chelsea academy is reputed for winning back-to-back Youth FA Cups and displacing the best of Europe's academy in all age categories? How is it possible to achieve this consistently without the top-of-the-range talent required to make it to the top level?

Summary.…
JOSE KILLED YOUTH AT CHELSEA.

Hope Conte doesn't because Chelsea has got the best young talents in Europe after Barca. Take it from me.

nateevs:



Sorry but that is a flimsy example. Kurt Zouma came in at £12m. That's the same amount (inflation aside) that we paid for Arjen Robben. As a matter of fact, Zouma will be given an acid bath if he wasn't closer to the first team than all academy players. And so will Jose for not playing him. Why did he cost £12m ?


And also, you bringing up this example, means you didn't digest totally the crux of the argument. Loan player vs permanent.

Also you cannot pay £12m and say you didn't know what you bought. I am flowing with you.