deols: @sino
I understand clearly what you mean. Cooking for ur husband as a woman isnt a bad thing. There's also the hadith where Fatima demanded a maid and the prophet encouraged her to go ahead working in her home.

I just like to make things clear. What Islam says versus what our cultures permit. Islam is a way of life and a couple accepting to live an Islamic life should know exactly where the lines are drawn..I wish i can express myself better

Sis deols, you have even brought forth a proof that indicates the wife should take care of the household, maybe i dont really get you still. What islam says does not negate our culture, rather it encourages our culture in which a wife should be obedient to her husband. I agree with the fact that men should be loving, caring and considerate (she is not his slave); a woman should be dutiful and obedient to her husband.
A wife who does not do the things expected of her is a bad wife under any standards.

tbaba1234:

^ The prophet of Allah washed his own clothes, cooked his own food and helped around in the house ... Too many men hide behind obedience and fail to realise that their wives are not their slaves.... If your aim is to follow the prophet, then follow him::

While wives are told to obey their husbands, the husbands are expected to be the best to their wives

The prophet said:
"The best of you are the best to their wives; and I am the best to my wives." Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 3252 Narrated by Aisha ; Abdullah ibn Abbas

So to be the best to your wives, you must emulate him.... So even if you can't wash your clothes all the time... Do it sometime... Cook for your wife and yourself, help around the house.... It is a sunnah

Men can't keep looking at one side of the coin.... she is supposed to obey you so you take advantage... If you follow the sunnah, you will take up some responsibility around the home like the prophet did...

Men need to be made aware of this..

thank you, thank You!! Everything you have written is just so it. the highlighted is just the most beloved to me.

sino:
Sis deols, you have even brought forth a proof that indicates the wife should take care of the household, maybe i dont really get you still. What islam says does not negate our culture, rather it encourages our culture in which a wife should be obedient to her husband. I agree with the fact that men should be loving, caring and considerate (she is not his slave); a woman should be dutiful and obedient to her husband.
A wife who does not do the things expected of her is a bad wife under any standards.

I really do want you to get what I am driving at.

FIrst, u referred to what I said concerning Fatima. the fact that the prophet encouraged her to carry out those duties doesn't make them compulsory on her. It is like the acts that earn you rewards without being compulsory. let me give you examples. There is a hadith concerning a man who walked into the masjid during salaatul Jum'ah, the prophet called on him, asking him to get up and say his nawafil(tahiyatul masjid). That ddnt make observing it compulsory, it was enjoined. so also, if u say subhanallah, alhamdulillah and Allahu akbar after every salaat, u'll get rewards but they arent compulsory aspects of Islam. Even Allah(SWT) talks of the servants of the most merciful as those who wake up in the night, standing and prostrating(i.e observing the tahajjud and this doesnt make tahajjud compulsory. I can go on and on. Breastfeeding your child for two years is mentioned in the Qur'an but you dont even haave to breastfeed your own child according to Islam. If a woman wouldnt be able to, it becomes the duty of her husband to even pay the foster mother that does the breast feeding.

In essence, that the prophet encouraged his daughter to do this, like other good things doesnt make it compulsory on anyone.

Now, concerning our culture.

Have it in mind please that I like to talk in terms of what is ideal. I pride myself as being a muslim first but Of course, I am Yoruba.

Islam didnt abolish the good things in our culture and you think that the woman doing the house chores is a good thing and should be left that way?? I am not at all disputing that. maybe, I would on another thread. But on this one, I havent said anything like that or havent meant to do so.

I am only saying that, a woman cooking for her husband is not something Islam makes her duty. Duty means something she must do. And if she doesnt do them, no one should see her as bad or see her not doing them as a sin.


ALso, not only Yorubas are on this forum and they wouldnt be the only ones who might find the things we discuss here useful. So, when I speak, it is on a larger scale than what 'our' culture is or is not.

Knowing this might not change much in the lives of many of the people reading this. But in case they get exposed to other Muslims, of probably other cultures, they wouldnt start to assume those people are out of this world or unIslamic because they do things differently. I was having a discussion with a friend of mine who lived a large part of her life in Europe about family, child bearing, etc and she mentioned how she plans to rotate house chores with her hubby. I laughed asking her if she had a Nigerian in mind. She joined in the laughter and told me of course. I had no doubt she could marry such a man but I knew certain busy bodies(friends or families of the man) might be the problem in such a case, that is when they'll realise she had 'used' his head.

Education, and especially an Islamic one is supposed to set everyone free, to realise the good things of life and never to be tied down by some cultural beliefs that only exist because we make them exist.

obedience and duty.

I want to believe that you know that a woman is allowed to disobey her husband. if he is asking her to do something that goes against her religious obligations, disobeying him becomes mandatory. here lies the big gap between obedience to the husband and her duties in her marriage(according to Islam) which are also obligatory acts.


Many Nigerian Muslims hide under this obedience to use their 'macho' skills over their wives. If the prophet asked Fatima to carry out house chores(an hadith) and another hadith shows that he also carried out house chores, shouldnnt a combination of both already show that that duty is a shared one by spouses? Muslim men can decide to live the way of the prophet or not rather than using those words that suit them while neglecting others.

So a man would then because she has to obey him start asking her to do things even if she isnt capable of doing them? He may as well sit back while ordering her to provide for the family.

In the words of tbaba1234, If your aim is to follow the prophet, then follow him:: and I add, in totality.

It is cruel that a man would go to the market with his wife and after buying all, he carries the load and dumps them on her head. she is after all to obey.

It is the same Nija man o that buys the first car, and because it is his money drives all over town whereas his weaker sex wife(slave)goes around town with a baby bump and a child on her back with her leggedes benz or waka wagen smh

Finally, a man loses his respect when he starts to treat his wife badly. I hope she's aware of the right to LEAVE.

sino:
Sis deols, you have even brought forth a proof that indicates the wife should take care of the household, maybe i dont really get you still. What islam says does not negate our culture, rather it encourages our culture in which a wife should be obedient to her husband. I agree with the fact that men should be loving, caring and considerate (she is not his slave); a woman should be dutiful and obedient to her husband.
A wife who does not do the things expected of her is a bad wife under any standards.

Expected of her by who? her husband, family,friends, society? Standards are relative, u know. Yours might be different from other people's

@Deols, let me give you a test. Husband and wife get married and after the honeymoon, husband notices that wife is reluctant to cook in the afternoon at weekends. He asks her: 'why are you not cooking my/our lunch'? She says: 'I don't have to now because it is not compulsory by my (wack?) understanding of the rules concerning the duties of a wife according to Islam.

Husband says no problem, Islam says you must obey your husband. I hereby order you to cook lunch every weekend and any other day that I am at home.

What will be your answer if you are this wife? Don't hide O, come and answer my question.

@ deols, do you agree that a wife must walk a few steps behind her husband?

maclatunji: @Deols, let me give you a test. Husband and wife get married and after the honeymoon, husband notices that wife is reluctant to cook in the afternoon at weekends. He asks her: 'why are you not cooking my/our lunch'? She says: 'I don't have to now because it is not compulsory by my (wack?) understanding of the rules concerning the duties of a wife according to Islam.

Husband says no problem, Islam says you must obey your husband. I hereby order you to cook lunch every weekend and any other day that I am at home.

What will be your answer if you are this wife? Don't hide O, come and answer my question.

IF this is the way you plan to relate to your wife then i truly pity her.

davidylan:

IF this is the way you plan to relate to your wife then i truly pity her.

Two things:

1. Does the word hypothesis mean anything to you? You keep yapping about being a scientist, a pseudo one you seem to be to me more and more? I have asked a question, does that have anything to do with me as a future husband? If you think that means that is how I will be, then you are the most shallow scientist I have ever come across.

2. Thankfully, majority of women do see cooking for their husbands as their duty so there will be no need (God-willing) for me to have to order or beg(in your case?) To have my meals cooked.

David buzz-off!

maclatunji:

Two things:

1. Does the word hypothesis mean anything to you? You keep yapping about being a scientist, a pseudo one you seem to be to me more and more? I have asked a question, does that have anything to do with me as a future husband? If you think that means that is how I will be, then you are the most shallow scientist I have ever come across.

2. Thankfully, majority of women do see cooking for their husbands as their duty so there will be no need (God-willing) for me to have to order or beg(in your case?) To have my meals cooked.

David buzz-off!

hmm you alright?
You have used the word "order" twice in this thread so chuck out the "hypothesis" meme. Husbands do not "order" their wives about no matter the circumstances.
Secondly, deols is right; a husband who truly loves his wife will be willing to work around some of her defficiencies. No woman is perfect... and there is no set rule that states a wife MUST cook for her husband. My aunt hates to clean bathrooms or do laundry, she's been happily married for over 10 yrs to a husband who understands his wife and loves her enough to not force her to do what she dislikes simply because there is some cultural "rule" that states a woman shld do all the cleaning.

Lastly, with regard to me being a scientist... i laugh in swahili. Even if you had 20 yrs you can NEVER be in the position or command the wages i get in the labor market.

You too buzz off!

davidylan:

hmm you alright?
You have used the word "order" twice in this thread so chuck out the "hypothesis" meme. Husbands do not "order" their wives about no matter the circumstances.
Secondly, deols is right; a husband who truly loves his wife will be willing to work around some of her defficiencies. No woman is perfect... and there is no set rule that states a wife MUST cook for her husband. My aunt hates to clean bathrooms or do laundry, she's been happily married for over 10 yrs to a husband who understands his wife and loves her enough to not force her to do what she dislikes simply because there is some cultural "rule" that states a woman shld do all the cleaning.

Lastly, with regard to me being a scientist... i laugh in swahili. Even if you had 20 yrs you can NEVER be in the position or command the wages i get in the labor market.

You too buzz off!

You know you goofed now, I asked a purely hypothetical question and you started projecting that into my personality. Going by your logic, if I write novels that relate only to solving murders, I must be a police detective or murderer, abi? As for your salary as a scientist. Well, it sure doesn't prevent you from goofing around here all-too-frequently, so save it for yourself and your family. #LOL

I like my hypothetical question because it really puts everything we are talking about in proper perspective.

The topic says 'Role of a wife in Islam' and not how a husband should treat a wife. If we want to discuss that I already created a thread for husbandly duties according to Islam. Let us stop mixing the two. Each has their role which are not dependent on the other. So there is no I will be a good wife ONLY IF... It is either you are or you are not.

Yes, husbands do order wives IF NEED BE just as they may beg if the need arises as well.

By the way dude, this is not the family section. Are you a Muslim? If not respectfully observe on this topic especially.

maclatunji:

You know you goofed now, I asked a purely hypothetical question and you started projecting that into my personality.

how rich of you. How immensely rich of our residential hypocrite. I highlighted the use of the word "order" as being the wrong word to use when it comes to a wife and that morphed into me being a pseudo-scientist? Bro, remove the log in your eyes before complaining about the mote in mine.

maclatunji:
Going by your logic, if I write novels that relate only to solving murders, I must be a police detective or murderer, abi? As for your salary as a scientist. Well, it sure doesn't prevent you from goofing around here all-too-frequently, so save it for yourself and your family. #LOL

trust me, i bring it up only to expose how foolish you sound with your "pseudo-scientist" jab. If you know nothing about others then dont project. I hold a position you and others like you can only dream about. Because we both post on a board does not make us equals.

maclatunji:
I like my hypothetical question because it really puts everything we are talking about in proper perspective.

The topic says 'Role of a wife in Islam' and not how a husband should treat a wife. If we want to discuss that I already created a thread for husbandly duties according to Islam. Let us stop mixing the two. Each has their role which are not dependent on the other. So there is no I will be a good wife ONLY IF... It is either you are or you are not.

While that is true, it is impossible for you to discuss the role of a wife sans the role/expectations of a husband. Its like discussing the role of dough in bread making and saying we should not talk about yeast.

maclatunji:
Yes, husbands do order wives IF NEED BE just as they may beg if the need arises as well.

A REAL man does not order his wife around. She is your equal not your slave. I am not a woman and yet i know how offensive that word can sound to a woman. You married her as a helpmeet not as a househelp to push around as you wish.

maclatunji:
By the way dude, this is not the family section. Are you a Muslim? If not respectfully observe on this topic especially.

Being non-muslim should not preclude us from commenting on a general family issue. I for one i'm sick of the eternal muslim double standard. Free to post wherever you like while inhibiting others from posting on your secluded board. Then you turn around and talk about tolerance? Nigger pls.

deols:

I really do want you to get what I am driving at.

FIrst, u referred to what I said concerning Fatima. the fact that the prophet encouraged her to carry out those duties doesn't make them compulsory on her. It is like the acts that earn you rewards without being compulsory. let me give you examples. There is a hadith concerning a man who walked into the masjid during salaatul Jum'ah, the prophet called on him, asking him to get up and say his nawafil(tahiyatul masjid). That ddnt make observing it compulsory, it was enjoined. so also, if u say subhanallah, alhamdulillah and Allahu akbar after every salaat, u'll get rewards but they arent compulsory aspects of Islam. Even Allah(SWT) talks of the servants of the most merciful as those who wake up in the night, standing and prostrating(i.e observing the tahajjud and this doesnt make tahajjud compulsory. I can go on and on. Breastfeeding your child for two years is mentioned in the Qur'an but you dont even haave to breastfeed your own child according to Islam. If a woman wouldnt be able to, it becomes the duty of her husband to even pay the foster mother that does the breast feeding.

In essence, that the prophet encouraged his daughter to do this, like other good things doesnt make it compulsory on anyone.

Yes i get your drift deols, but still would not agree completely if not totally.
The prophet (saw) encouraged his own daughter to take care of her household cos its her duty and Allah will reward her abundantly, if it wasnt, what stops the prophet(saw) from granting her wish?
Marriage is about responsibilities and privileges, Islam need not state specifically that a wife must cook for her household(i prefer this than only the husband), cos even at war, women are the ones cooking, tending to the injured and giving water to the mujahids.
The roles of a wife in her husbands house according to Islam encompasses her being a good homemaker/manager and this is compulsory on her to do with the aim of pleasing Allah(swt).

deols: Now, concerning our culture.

Have it in mind please that I like to talk in terms of what is ideal. I pride myself as being a muslim first but Of course, I am Yoruba.

Islam didnt abolish the good things in our culture and you think that the woman doing the house chores is a good thing and should be left that way?? I am not at all disputing that. maybe, I would on another thread. But on this one, I havent said anything like that or havent meant to do so.

Well, doing something in which you will be rewarded not only by the husband, but Allah(swt) sounds good to me. Since you are not disputing no qualms

deols:
I am only saying that, a woman cooking for her husband is not something Islam makes her duty. Duty means something she must do. And if she doesnt do them, no one should see her as bad or see her not doing them as a sin.

if not doing leads to causing major problem for the couples, disobedience to the husband, leads to the man going to another womans house to eat, thus leading to other immoralities etc. Then, it becomes a sin on her.

deols:

ALso, not only Yorubas are on this forum and they wouldnt be the only ones who might find the things we discuss here useful. So, when I speak, it is on a larger scale than what 'our' culture is or is not.

Knowing this might not change much in the lives of many of the people reading this. But in case they get exposed to other Muslims, of probably other cultures, they wouldnt start to assume those people are out of this world or unIslamic because they do things differently. I was having a discussion with a friend of mine who lived a large part of her life in Europe about family, child bearing, etc and she mentioned how she plans to rotate house chores with her hubby. I laughed asking her if she had a Nigerian in mind. She joined in the laughter and told me of course. I had no doubt she could marry such a man but I knew certain busy bodies(friends or families of the man) might be the problem in such a case, that is when they'll realise she had 'used' his head.

Education, and especially an Islamic one is supposed to set everyone free, to realise the good things of life and never to be tied down by some cultural beliefs that only exist because we make them exist.

Be it as it may, the role of women/wife is quite universal even in america, only of recent with the rise in feminism, and the likes is what i believe is changing the mentality of women. Even though Islam allows for the wife to work, the responsibility of providing for the household remains that of the husband.
I know there are differnt cultures around, that is why Islam is unique with its rules and regulations which is not aimed at anhilating any culture. Take the example of a scotish man who wears "skirt" or an indian who ties a wrapper(igbos and south-south peeps too) as their traditional wear for men, how does Islam addresses this in terms of male immitating females? I believe Islam eradicates excesses and outright disobedience to Allah(swt). We screen our culture and tradition with Islam. We remove the evil and continue with the good.
Islamic knowledge really do set one free from false believe and wrong assumptions, it makes a wife know that she is the custodian of her husband's household and will be asked on the day of judgement how she executed her responsibilities.

deols: obedience and duty.

I want to believe that you know that a woman is allowed to disobey her husband. if he is asking her to do something that goes against her religious obligations, disobeying him becomes mandatory. here lies the big gap between obedience to the husband and her duties in her marriage(according to Islam) which are also obligatory acts.

I agree in totality!
You are also aware that a wife must seek her husband's consent before she can leave the house or fast except for ramadhan. She should also submit herself to her husband for intimate relation when asked and that the angels curse her if she refuses(without genuine reasons) and that the prophet(saw) said if it were permited for one to posterate for another man then it would have been a wife to her husband...

deols:
Many Nigerian Muslims hide under this obedience to use their 'macho' skills over their wives. If the prophet asked Fatima to carry out house chores(an hadith) and another hadith shows that he also carried out house chores, shouldnnt a combination of both already show that that duty is a shared one by spouses? Muslim men can decide to live the way of the prophet or not rather than using those words that suit them while neglecting others.

So a man would then because she has to obey him start asking her to do things even if she isnt capable of doing them? He may as well sit back while ordering her to provide for the family.

In the words of tbaba1234, If your aim is to follow the prophet, then follow him:: and I add, in totality.

It is cruel that a man would go to the market with his wife and after buying all, he carries the load and dumps them on her head. she is after all to obey.

It is the same Nija man o that buys the first car, and because it is his money drives all over town whereas his weaker sex wife(slave)goes around town with a baby bump and a child on her back with her leggedes benz or waka wagen smh

Finally, a man loses his respect when he starts to treat his wife badly. I hope she's aware of the right to LEAVE.

Yes not only nigerian muslim men do this, it is wrong and evil for a man to be cruel to his wife. Tbaba1234 made a good point on that and i totally agree.
Doing the house chores and the likes was never a problem for the women of old, they did it gracefully and taught their daughters to do so too. A good muslim man always strive to emulate the prophet(saw), may Allah(swt) assist us all amin.

sino:
I agree in totality!
You are also aware that a wife must seek her husband's consent before she can leave the house or fast except for ramadhan.

Why? is she 2 yrs old? Why should a wife need to seek her husband's permission to run to the market or go to work?

sino:
She should also submit herself to her husband for intimate relation when asked and that the angels curse her if she refuses(without genuine reasons) and that the prophet(saw) said if it were permited for one to posterate for another man then it would have been a wife to her husband...

huh? so if she's upset because her husband cheated on her, the angels still curse her for refusing to sleep with him?

deols:

Expected of her by who? her husband, family,friends, society? Standards are relative, u know. Yours might be different from other people's

Responsibilities expected of her as a good homemaker,wife,partner, mother, helper, companion etc.
By any standard i mean; religious, cultural,societal, family etc. standards

davidylan:

Why? is she 2 yrs old? Why should a wife need to seek her husband's permission to run to the market or go to work?

Lol Dr david, why will you need to take permission from your boss you'll be leaving early from work cos you are going for a PTA meeting @ your daughter's sch? Even if you own your lab, you still need to inform your secretary you are leaving the office...
The husband is the head of the household, she needs to seek his consent for the husband might need her for something or for other myriads of reasons. That aside, courtesy also demands that she informs him of her whereabouts and vice versa

davidylan:
huh? so if she's upset because her husband cheated on her, the angels still curse her for refusing to sleep with him?

Didnt you read what is between the brackets? Islam teaches us everything, even intimate relations between couples and it includes romance and pre-intimacy. If the man is a good muslim, he wouldnt cheat on his wife talkless of upsetting her cos of that.

sino:

Lol Dr david, why will you need to take permission from your boss you'll be leaving early from work cos you are going for a PTA meeting @ your daughter's sch? Even if you own your lab, you still need to inform your secretary you are leaving the office...
The husband is the head of the household, she needs to seek his consent for the husband might need her for something or for other myriads of reasons. That aside, courtesy also demands that she informs him of her whereabouts and vice versa

This is nonsense really. You cant compare a marriage relationship with a working relationship. I have a legal obligation to work certain hours for certain compensation so i definitely have to inform my boss if and when i am unable to fulfill that contractual obligation for circumstances beyond my control. Your wife on the other hand is supposed to be your best friend, best mate, confidante... why does she need to take permission from you to go do her hair, rush to the market or pick up her kids from work? Is she not an adult who is very capable of making decisions on her own? Do you also feel a requirement to take permission from her to go out too? Or is that a requirement solely for her while you do as you please?

Seriously if this is the mentality nigerian husbands have then it is no surprise the family section is filled with unhappy suicidal wives.

sino:
Didnt you read what is between the brackets? Islam teaches us everything, even intimate relations between couples and it includes romance and pre-intimacy. If the man is a good muslim, he wouldnt cheat on his wife talkless of upsetting her cos of that.

Do angels curse the man for refusing sex too?

"And among His signs is this: that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest and peace of mind in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Certainly, herein indeed are signs for people who reflect." [Noble Quran 30:21]

".......They (your wives) are your garment and you are a garment for them" (Noble Quran 2:187)

"The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manners and kindest to his wife." [Source: “Sunnan” of Abu Dawud]

The general roles of the man and woman are as follows

1. The man is expected to maintain and protect his family; This is in respect to the financial needs as well as protecting them physically from harm. He is shephard of the family...

2. The wife is expected to obey her husband to make it easy for him to lead the home (ofcourse, as long as it does not go against Islam), she is the shepherd of the home front..

The prophet said

"If a woman prays her five (daily prayers), fasts her month (i.e. Ramadan), guards her private parts, and obeys her husband, it will be said to her, ‘Enter Paradise through whichever of the gates of Paradise you wish.’" (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

Now, this is a very general description; They are partners in this... You are supposed to complement each other. She is your garment and you are her garment. Men have to learn to be tactful in dealing with their wives, If you go around ordering your wife like an oga, you will only get arguments in your house eventually.... You can exert leadership without being obnoxious, help around in the house, make attempts to cook (even if you can't)...

Do not spend your time watching sports while you can see your wife is having a difficult time with kids, cooking, dishes, laundry and maybe work.....

Husbands, Be kind and show love to your wives

&

and wives, be obedient to your husband, even when he is obnoxious as long as it is not something sinful...

If both parties play their part, you will have a good marriage...

chikena

Watch Umar(RA) reaction to his wife arguing with him::


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0nFSh4gtNA

davidylan: @ deols, do you agree that a wife must walk a few steps behind her husband?

from which culture is that one.

davidylan:

hmm you alright?
You have used the word "order" twice in this thread so chuck out the "hypothesis" meme. Husbands do not "order" their wives about no matter the circumstances.
Secondly, deols is right; a husband who truly loves his wife will be willing to work around some of her defficiencies. No woman is perfect... and there is no set rule that states a wife MUST cook for her husband. My aunt hates to clean bathrooms or do laundry, she's been happily married for over 10 yrs to a husband who understands his wife and loves her enough to not force her to do what she dislikes simply because there is some cultural "rule" that states a woman shld do all the cleaning.

Lastly, with regard to me being a scientist... i laugh in swahili. Even if you had 20 yrs you can NEVER be in the position or command the wages i get in the labor market.

You too buzz off!

thank you o. I assume some peeps are taking my words so literally. The wife doesnt have to cook as a duty unlike how satisfying her husband's sexual needs are a duty. what is wrong with couples working out what suits them best rather than keeping to a status quo under the disguise of culture.

davidylan:

how rich of you. How immensely rich of our residential hypocritenew word??[color=#990000][/color] . I highlighted the use of the word "order" as being the wrong word to use when it comes to a wife and that morphed into me being a pseudo-scientist? Bro, remove the log in your eyes before complaining about the mote in mine.



trust me, i bring it up only to expose how foolish you sound with your "pseudo-scientist" jab. If you know nothing about others then dont project. I hold a position you and others like you can only dream about. Because we both post on a board does not make us equals.



While that is true, it is impossible for you to discuss the role of a wife sans the role/expectations of a husband. Its like discussing the role of dough in bread making and saying we should not talk about yeast.



A REAL man does not order his wife around. She is your equal not your slave. I am not a woman and yet i know how offensive that word can sound to a woman. You married her as a helpmeet not as a househelp to push around as you wish.

like I said earlier, many of them assume being the head gives them all liberty whereas the prophet of Allah accepted challenges from his wives. They are a perfect example of the 'nature of women' But he ddnt deal wv them in forceful manners. he was patient and persevered in many circumstances. many of these Muslim men wont see such ahadith as guides to life but will continually quote themselves as being heads of the family.

Even Umar(r.a) who is well known to be a tough man took a lot from his wives. These nija men would then turn themselves to military men/ dictators in their homes. I pity our women sha.

Being non-muslim should not preclude us from commenting on a general family issue.

I agree and especially if you have something beneficial to share.

I for one i'm sick of the eternal muslim double standard. Free to post wherever you like while inhibiting others from posting on your secluded board. Then you turn around and talk about tolerance? Nigger pls

I dont think You would be inhibited if you follow the rules. You can argue without heaping insults on the things/people we hold in esteem.

sino:
Yes i get your drift deols, but still would not agree completely if not totally.
The prophet (saw) encouraged his own daughter to take care of her household cos its her duty and Allah will reward her abundantly, if it wasnt, what stops the prophet(saw) from granting her wish?
Marriage is about responsibilities and privileges, Islam need not state specifically that a wife must cook for her household(i prefer this than only the husband), cos even at war, women are the ones cooking, tending to the injured and giving water to the mujahids.
The roles of a wife in her husbands house according to Islam encompasses her being a good homemaker/manager and this is compulsory on her to do with the aim of pleasing Allah(swt).

SO, if a woman cannot cook, gets a maid who does the cooking . would she be sinning against Allah?

a similar thing. A woman wouldnt allow her husband have sex with her. Is she sinning against Allah?

This should help you get what I am saying, I think.

Yes tbaba1234, a wife should obey her husband even when he is obnoxious as long as he has not asked her to do something sinful.

I am going to fight you though; if you want to teach or encourage Muslim men to be the perfect gentlemen that the Prophet (SAW) was go and post it on my thread. Let us thrash that of women here.

This thread has to be like this because where we were going with it before was totally delusional and not realistic.

One of the major reasons why divorce is rife amongst Muslims and non-Muslims alike is because but parties tend to be hypocritical before getting married.

The man is like 'don't worry if you say yes to me I will cook, wash, clean the house and still give you all the cash you want anytime'. Of course, the woman knows this is not practicable but still believes(?) it anyway. They get married, husband now becomes the man that he always was and changes completely- wife becomes like: " what about all your promises?" The man is like: "Don't you have eyes to see how the role of a woman really is?" You are a wife, fulfil your responsibilities and quit whinning.

The resentment builds-up until separation and divorce becomes almost inevitable. Now, I am not for all of this hypocrisy. Anybody who knows me in reality will probably say I am mild to a fault. However, when it comes to things like this, it as important to be assertive as it is to be sweet. A wife that takes care of her responsibilities without having to be lectured will find her husband respecting her to a fault if he is reasonable.

Question: Is it that people can't distinguish between holding a principled position and personality? Even tbaba is subtly implying that I am an autocrat. Let me give you a small story: In a class of about 120 divided into 12 groups to research and present seminar papers. It was only in my group that a woman made the group's seminar paper presentation (based on my approval as group leader) to the class even when I as the group leader should have done so as all the others did . Even our lecturer yabbed me for it. At the end of the day I was the only one that got a perfect score in the class. I make bold to say that I value, respect and treasure women more than a lot of you claiming to be pro-women here. #LOL

sino:

if not doing leads to causing major problem for the couples, disobedience to the husband, leads to the man going to another womans house to eat, thus leading to other immoralities etc. Then, it becomes a sin on her.

lai lai. If a man sins, it is his to bear. Are you saying that when men leave their households to commit zina, the sin is on the wife? I have heard such fallacies as this in the past and I'll need you t prove it to me. Every blame is supposed to be on the woman? Even if a woman is denying her husband sex, it is a test on him. he can marry another woman, he can divorce her but going out to carry out zina with the thought of the sins being on her is so so false. Abeg, desist from such tales.

I have been trying to make known the difference between duty and what a husband asks his wife to do. She is to carry out her duty without being told. But with regards obeying him, she can ask for explanations. she can challenge him. She is not a robot. so, if a husband asks his wife to do something and she has the capacity to do it, she goes ahead to do it but if she cannot, it is subject to reasoning and I want to believe that the man has feelings too.

lemme give you two examples as regards that.

1. A woman is to seek permission before leaving her home. A scenario comes up where her child becomes sick. he runs into coma or convulses. Are you saying she must wait for the man before she takes her child to the hospital?

2. a woman cannot pound yam or she is sick and her husband wants to eat pounded yam. She makes it known to him but he isnt in a good mood and insists. if she died pounding that yam, Allah would punish her because no one is to harm themselves.

In Islam, if you find yourself in scenarios that only give options between two sins, you choose the lesser one. taking her son to the hospital is much more a better act than keeping to the rule that asks her to seek his permission.

WaAllahu a'lam.

davidylan:

This is nonsense really. You cant compare a marriage relationship with a working relationship. I have a legal obligation to work certain hours for certain compensation so i definitely have to inform my boss if and when i am unable to fulfill that contractual obligation for circumstances beyond my control. Your wife on the other hand is supposed to be your best friend, best mate, confidante... why does she need to take permission from you to go do her hair, rush to the market or pick up her kids from work? Is she not an adult who is very capable of making decisions on her own? Do you also feel a requirement to take permission from her to go out too? Or is that a requirement solely for her while you do as you please?

Bia bi ko nu david, so marriage doesnt have lagal obligations ehn? It has no legal obligations under religion and even under the state? Why do you say all the "for better for worse, in health and sickness blah blah" @ the alter? Didnt you sign these agreements to the union? No contractual agreement abi? Abeg go and play with your cuvette jare. Even friends seek each other's permission(i did ask my friend's permission to leave his brother's nikkah).
I believe your children need no permission of yours too abi?
even though the relationship between the husband and wife cannot be likkened to that of an employer and an employee, seeking permission in Islam is a sign of mutual respect and curtesy between couples. These are the laws of Islam.

davidylan:
Do angels curse the man for refusing sex too?

Sex in marriage is a religious obligation, they both are rewarded for fulfilling this. if a man denies his wife that right, he is infact sinning. Remember, we are talking about the roles of a wife!

I cant continue to answer to every post. Got to go now. But I have to say that--->

Islam is all about knowledge. If left to what we think as individuals, we will continue to argue without the other person agreeing. So, I will bring forth the words of scholars on this. I had heard lectures before my convictions over my stance. I try as much as possible not to say things based on whims or because they favor me. Excerpts from a webpage below. You can read more - http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/strwife.htm

You have no claim upon them

Thereafter the Holy Prophet [sallallaahu alyhi wasallam] has spoken a very serious sentence of far-reaching consequences. When the meaning of this sentence is explained to men they get annoyed. That sentence is:

"This means that according to the laws of the Shari'ah the only demand you can make of them is that they should live with you in your house".

You have no other claim upon them. Cooking is not the duty of a wife

From this Tradition the Jurists have deduced a ruling of delicate nature and which makes men annoyed. The ruling lays down that according to the Shari'ah it is not the responsibility of a woman to cook food for the household. For this purpose the Jurists have divided women into two classes. Women of one class are those who do household work, including cooking food in their parent’s houses. The other class consists of women who do not cook food in their father’s house where cooks are employed for this work. If after marriage a woman of the latter class goes to her husband’s house she is not at all responsible to cook food, religiously, legally, morally or otherwise. On the other hand, that wife may ask her husband to hire a cook for her as man is obliged to provide her with food along with other necessaries of life. The Jurists write:

"It is the responsibility of the husband to provide his wife with cooked food."

The wife cannot be forced to cook food neither by force, nor by the law, because the Holy Prophet [sallallaahu alyhi wasallam] has said in clear words:

"This means: You have a right to keep them in your house which it is not lawful for them to leave without your permission."

With this exception the laws of the Shari'ah have imposed no responsibility on them.

However, If she belongs to the first category the one who used to cook food in her parents’ house she too is not legally responsible to cook food i.e. she cannot be compelled by law to cook food. However, the responsibility falls on her only morally. In such a case the husband is responsible only to provide the food materials. Even then it is not her responsibility to cook food for the husband and the children. A wife in this class cannot ask her husband to provide her with cooked food. However, if she refuses to cook food for her husband and the children, the court cannot force her to do it. The respected Jurists have explained these problems at great length.
Serving the In-laws is not obligatory




as to the words in red. i want u to note that my point is d legal aspects of it. what constitutes a sin and what doesnt. And I made it clear in the muslim men and their women thread that many Nigerian women even pride themselves on their ability to do these things and many others are brought up with the thought that the only way to keep their men is by slaving. So i am not against women doing it. I am just saying, not doing so, isnt a sin.

Some men dont even care about who cooks their food. All they want is to eat. What do u say in that regard, that their wives will enter hell??

deols:

lai lai. If a man sins, it is his to bear. Are you saying that when men leave their households to commit zina, the sin is on the wife? I have heard such fallacies as this in the past and I'll need you t prove it to me. Every blame is supposed to be on the woman? Even if a woman is denying her husband sex, it is a test on him. he can marry another woman, he can divorce her but going out to carry out zina with the thought of the sins being on her is so so false. Abeg, desist from such tales.

I have been trying to make known the difference between duty and what a husband asks his wife to do. She is to carry out her duty without being told. But with regards obeying him, she can ask for explanations. she can challenge him. She is not a robot. so, if a husband asks his wife to do something and she has the capacity to do it, she goes ahead to do it but if she cannot, it is subject to reasoning and I want to believe that the man has feelings too.

lemme give you two examples as regards that.

1. A woman is to seek permission before leaving her home. A scenario comes up where her child becomes sick. he runs into coma or convulses. Are you saying she must wait for the man before she takes her child to the hospital?

2. a woman cannot pound yam or she is sick and her husband wants to eat pounded yam. She makes it known to him but he isnt in a good mood and insists. if she died pounding that yam, Allah would punish her because no one is to harm themselves.

In Islam, if you find yourself in scenarios that only give options between two sins, you choose the lesser one. taking her son to the hospital is much more a better act than keeping to the rule that asks her to seek his permission.

WaAllahu a'lam.

Deols! Deols!! Deols!!! Nne you are 3 much. #LOL. Don't worry, all this your mouth will reduce after a year of marriage. Rokiatu used to be just like you, not up to a year in marriage, she has softened. I like your feisty spirit sha but you really have to moderate it if you don't want to learn the hard way. So that it will not be a case of: It is the one who is perceived to be sensible that is now having problems.

deols:

lai lai. If a man sins, it is his to bear. Are you saying that when men leave their households to commit zina, the sin is on the wife? I have heard such fallacies as this in the past and I'll need you t prove it to me. Every blame is supposed to be on the woman? Even if a woman is denying her husband sex, it is a test on him. he can marry another woman, he can divorce her but going out to carry out zina with the thought of the sins being on her is so so false. Abeg, desist from such tales.

Agreed, no carrier of loads will help carry another persons load...Allah says "o you who believe! Ward off from yourselves and your families a fire whose fuel is man and stone..."(Q66vs6), the prophet(saw) also said "all of you are shepards, and each one of you shall be questioned...a wife about her household..."
i am not saying the sin is on the woman, the man his responsible for his action, rather she will be sinning if her actions and inactions results in disobedience to her husband and also pushing her husband to commit a sin.

deols:
I have been trying to make known the difference between duty and what a husband asks his wife to do. She is to carry out her duty without being told. But with regards obeying him, she can ask for explanations. she can challenge him. She is not a robot. so, if a husband asks his wife to do something and she has the capacity to do it, she goes ahead to do it but if she cannot, it is subject to reasoning and I want to believe that the man has feelings too.

what the husband asks his wife to do becomes a duty on her hence the law of obedience except for the exceptions... Even the duties specified outrightly is subject to reasoning too

deols:
lemme give you two examples as regards that.

1. A woman is to seek permission before leaving her home. A scenario comes up where her child becomes sick. he runs into coma or convulses. Are you saying she must wait for the man before she takes her child to the hospital?

2. a woman cannot pound yam or she is sick and her husband wants to eat pounded yam. She makes it known to him but he isnt in a good mood and insists. if she died pounding that yam, Allah would punish her because no one is to harm themselves.

In Islam, if you find yourself in scenarios that only give options between two sins, you choose the lesser one. taking her son to the hospital is much more a better act than keeping to the rule that asks her to seek his permission.

WaAllahu a'lam.

Yes very true deols, the first case is a necessity she has no choice.
The second is a case of human life and dignity in which islam came to protect.
No loving muslim man in his right senses will take on his wife on the two cases, nor will she be punished by Allah(swt) for negleting her duties.
Wallahu a'lam.

deols is quick to lay examples of the prophet for men, well we are also quick to lay the example of his wives for women. Hehehehe! deols position is highly controversial amongst scholars- so as a woman, you decide whether you want to build a happy home or engage in detrimental debate with your husband over what everybody knows is primarily women's forte.

Read this and click on the link for a more comprehensive answer:

[B]Housework [/B]

The rights which have been stated so far are non-controversial and agreed upon among the scholars. The duty of the wife to take care of housework such as cooking, cleaning and generally serving her husband in the house is an issue about which there are different opinions. Definitely, this is and has always been the custom of the Muslims, all the way back to the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) and his Companions. It is part of the ihsaan (good treatment) which should be exchanged between husband and wife. That is not quite the same, however, as saying that it is the husband's right. If that is the case, then she would be committing a sin if she failed to fulfill it.

Clearly, the safe way is the way of all of the female Companions of the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) who used to serve their husbands in this regard. If they had servants to help them, fine. If not, they used to handle the housework, cooking and cleaning. The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) himself, our best example in this regard, used to help his wives with these chores.

There are many scholars on both sides of this issue as to the obligatoriness of these services. The strongest argument that they are is the following hadith of Husain ibn Muhsin that the Prophet (sas) asked his aunt if she was married. When she answered in the affirmative, he said:

"How are you with respect to him?" She answered: 'I do not fail in obeying him save in those things that I am incapable of doing.' The Prophet (sas) told her: "Look to how you are with respect to him for he is your paradise and your hell-fire." Ahmad & others (acceptable according to Al-Albaani).

Al-Albaani states that this hadith is proof that a woman must serve her husband according to her ability, the first of such obligations is the bringing up of the children.

http://maseeh1.tripod.com/advices7/id206.htm

As a woman, ask yourself do you want to be on the safe path or the controversial one? I rest my case (FOR NOW).