affirmative action http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_Action <-- for a more accurate definition:

It's when ethnic minorities get an edge in college admissions e.t.c just because they're minorities. Colleges say the purpose is to promote diversity e.t.c because blacks and hispanics do poorer than whites academically and these minorities therefore do not get a chance in prestigious institutions. Consequently, the institutions are most of the time "all white."

But many of the white people in my school think affirmative action is discrimination and some minority individuals (a lot actually) think it's shameful. I on the other hand agree with it. So, does anyone apart from me agree with it?

Me and my friend were discussing it the other day and she said it wasn't fair how she did better than me on the PSATs but I got recruited a lot more. she's upper-middle class white by the way.

The advantages are obvious -- it targets the minority and tries to get them in as much as possible. The thorny part is that people who deserve better [based on merit] get passed over. It depends on what side you're on.

but then when you look at the other side of it, most minorities could do just as good (i mean their profiles) if they have the advantages e.t.c.
for example, an upper middle class white whose parents are English professors or who attended expensive SAT prep classes
will do a lot better than an Hispanic whose parents speak little or no English and has not enough time for study because of a part time job.
I don't think the white kid deserves any better just because of the higher scores.

I think so too -- but face it, you'll be disgruntled if you were in that white guy's place and passed over.

Affirmative action is necessary to break the vicious cycle that gives more opportunities to people in a particular class or race.

Just try to comfort your friend. Are you trying to say she only has a good score because she's white? That would be a very unfair thing to suggest to a hardworking student who just happens to be white. If you've suggested that, please apologize!

It's forever a controversial issue.
I met a white American guy once back in Nigeria who told me of his frustrations at getting accepted in a school in the US.
I remember him telling me that  lesser qualified people had it easier because of affirmative action.
On the face of it,and historically there is/was some sense in it,but if you are caught on the wrong side you would rail against it.
Is it not similar to our quota system in Nigeria,where Northerners are given preferential treatment in admission and other facets of life,
and the Southerners who score higher or are better qualified are passed over?
It does maintain some equilibrium to some points,but it also has its down side.It may/does encourage mediocrity and complacency in the beneficiaries and inflame the passions of the loosers against them.
I think it's not exactly a black and white thing, it's grey.
And these black Americans sef,I don't think they've taken advantage of the system enough, I believe it has probably made them more lazy.

i do not subscribe to affirmative action.
1. if you where white, you would feel discriminated against.
2. Have the blacks and hispanics taken advantage of this?
3. why do blacks and hispanics generally do poorer than whites? is it because they are less equiped intellectually or a product of society and their environments?

Sometimes some laws are made to advance a public policy. It's not about right or wrong. Same way you can't make the white race to pay repatriation to minorities for years of repressive state policies, society has to come up with ways of bridging the gap caused by these policies. Affirmative action is one way of solving this problems, or the cycle of servitude will continue forever.

I agree with most of you that it's discriminatory but I don't see how minorities are going to be represented in those colleges without it.

If affirmative action cease to be practiced, the amount of African Americans and Latinos in prestigious higher Institutions will reduce dramatically and therefore increase stupid stereotypes like one I read on this site not long agothat blacks are dumber than whites.


Research shows benefits of affirmative action

Donald MacLeod
Tuesday June 7, 2005

Without affirmative action the number of African-American and Hispanic students going to elite US universities would plummet, and their places would be taken by Asian, not white, applicants, according to Princeton University researchers.
Although affirmative action to award places to black students has been whittled away by legal challenges, American universities are still entitled to take race into account as one factor alongside SAT test scores when making admissions decisions, a supreme court judgment involving the University of Michigan held last year.

After looking at more than 124,000 applicants to elite universities, Thomas J Espenshade and Chang Y Chung concluded that ignoring race in admissions would result in dramatic declines in the number of African-Americans and Hispanics.

They also looked at athletes and so-called "legacy" applicants, whose parents are alumni or have made donations, who are predominantly white. They concluded their numbers were so small they did not displace many minority candidates.

"We're trying to put these admission preferences in context so people understand that lots of students, including those with SAT scores above 1,500, are getting a boost," said Prof Espenshade. "The most important conclusion is the negative impact on African-American and Hispanic students if affirmative action practices were eliminated."

According to the study, published in the Social Science Quarterly, acceptance rates for African American candidates would fall from 33.7% to 12.2%, a decline of almost two-thirds, while the acceptance rate for Hispanic applicants would almost be cut in half, from 26.8% to 12.9%.

In the longer term the effect would be even greater because such students might be deterred from applying at all, they argued. "If admitting such small numbers of qualified African-American and Hispanic students reduced applications and the yield from minority candidates in subsequent years, the effect of eliminating affirmative action at elite universities on the racial and ethnic composition of enrolled students would be magnified beyond the results presented here," the authors wrote.

Removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students - their acceptance rate would rise by only 0.5 percentage points. Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students.
The study looked at elite university applicants' SAT scores, race, sex, citizenship, athletic ability and legacy in combination with their admission decision.


[url]http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/worldwide/story/0,9959,1501216,00.html[/url]

It's necessary, sometimes. But it's good for the beneficiaries to acknowledge those who have suffered from it.

Any kind of discrimination creates resentment but i do appreciate why affirmative action is needed in the US. It was an intentional policy after slavery was abolished to segregate black people and deny them many opportunities, which included access to good education. This went on for over a 100 years.

So the issue here is, if government policy intentionally discriminates against a certain group in society for over 100 years. How do you correct it?

@WesleyanA
your white friends complaining about affirmative action should read a bit of history

The story of nine African-American students who were prevented from attending High School in Arkansas in 1957.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine

Brown vs. Board of Education
This is how the Brown vs. Board of Education lawsuit was started in 1951. Linda’s father, Oliver Brown, and thirteen other parents tried to enroll their children in the local "white schools" in the summer of 1950, but were turned down because they were African Americans. They were told they must attend one of the four schools in the city for African American children. These parents filed suit against the Topeka Board of Education for their children. Oliver Brown was the first parent listed in the lawsuit, so the case was named after him. At the time of the lawsuit, Blacks everywhere were not treated fairly. For every $150.00 spent on white children at the "white schools" only $50.00 was spent on African American children at the "black schools." The  parents of the African American children thought that their school was not treated as fairly because they were colored. They did not have the most current textbooks, not enough school supplies, and overcrowded classrooms.
http://library.thinkquest.org/J0112391/brown_v__board_of_education.htm

The fight for equal education
http://library.thinkquest.org/J0112391/the_fight_for_equal_education.htm

Life is unfair. America is unfair. Furthermore, why is it that white people are always so confident that their rejections are unfair? If a Black/Latino/Asian/Native American etc. person isn't admitted, lifegoes on. If a white person isn't admitted then the Earth must stop, the sun must dim, lawsuits will be filed. Utter bullshit.

Affirmative action, unfortunately, is still necessary until we can eliminate the biases associated with standardized testings and schools. By the way, I remember hearing (True story) that WHITE WOMEN were the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action (look it up). I'll quote that to any oyinbo foolish enough to assume I'm where I'm at only because of AA.

granolaman:

any oyinbo foolish enough to assume I'm where I'm at only because of AA.

that's the thing about it. everyone assumes that if a black student gets accepted to a good school, it's because of AA. What they assume all blacks are stupid and dumb or what?

I can see how it helps but its very unfair, I remember the fight I had to get into Med school in Nigeria back in the days I was discriminated against because I came from the southern part of the country and they wanted to recruit more Northerners, it was a southern school!! I only got in cos there where no more northerners! so I am against it cos its very unfair, but then again in America, whites have had an unfair advantage, so something must be done to level the playing field a little, it worked in South Africa that now has a massive and thriving black middle class all because of affirmative action.

Er, I don't think South African has a "massive" black middle class. Saying so deters progress.

that's the thing about it. everyone assumes that if a black student gets accepted to a good school, it's because of AA. What they assume all blacks are stupid and dumb or what?

Oh, please stop whining. You go the admission and now you expect those who didn't get it to be happy? You better behave yourself or I'll recall you to Nigeria where you'll be free of all forms of racism (or progress)!

I wouldn't whine if i got admission. really  i'd be so excited. I'll probably do as many cartwheels as i possibly can till my mom screams at me to stop.

I need to get through High School first so i'll start applying in december/january. I need goodluck. 
i'm thinking of doing the nrotc stuff because college becomes free if you do + they actually pay you to attend.   

seriously though, a lot of Blacks who attended those schools complain about how people think they're sucessful only because of AA. If it's to make them feel guilty or worthless then that's too bad.

Well a friend of mine got UNILAG medical school admission based on the state she came from (she scored below the general cut-off mark, but the cut-off mark for her state was lower and hence she was admitted). She's not complaining!

WesleyanA, sometimes you get me confused. You talk like a university student.

<offtopic>
I recall we once agreed to meet on AIM. I've got it now - Z4hym4k4 is the id. . .
</offtopic>

Well she shouldn't complain. 
They do those cut-off marks for commom entrance exams too. I took it when i was 9 and that's how i realized i was a bad test taker (it was my first real "huge" test) i remember crying my eyes out.
What's the cut-off mark for anyways and how do they decide the score for each state?

@ Zah. cool. I'll add you when I sign on. 
Funny that I also got Yahoo IM. Ono made me.

WesleyanA: you may be a bad test taker but you are obviously smart.

Cut-off marks are determined based on how many people they want to admit from each state. If they want to admit 120 students, the cut-off mark will be the score of the 120th student. Most Nigerian universities admit more people from neighbouring states (just their policy) so the cut off mark for students from those states are lower.

Affirmative Action might well be the downfall of my alma mater - Federal Government Academy [formerly known as Suleja Academy].

It was called the School for the Gifted and Talented and was established to cater to exceptionally bright students from around the country. At first, only the very highest from the country irrespective of state were picked and of course those western wizards (especially Ondo) filled the place.

There were hardly any Northerners but the ones around were 'hyper-exceptional.' With time, some states felt slighted and demanded a 'quota system.'

With that, the ideals of the school have been compromised. Before, a minimum of 6As was required to scale the JSS-SS mark but currently, it's on 6Cs. This perhaps is a very annoying use of AA

@Seun

 thanks.

Oh i see. And I though it only happened here. Not only do state universities accept more instate students, also out of state students have to pay more for tuition.  

@Zah,
they dropped the requirements for all candidates or just the northerners?
that's really impressive by the way. You coming from a gifted and taleted school.

Affirmative action is not a quota it's just to make that space available. There are many schools that would not admit black people if the government didn't have laws, likewise there are many employers that wouldnt hire black people especially engineering and sciences.

Afirmative action makes sure that that space is available and it only helps you if you are qualified I was talking to some white kid who was complaining about afirmative action and he said he had a 3.2/4.0 gpa and could not get into grad school but a "black'" kid with 3.0/4.0 got in, well first off all a B and B+ student have the same level of intelligence the difference is not large

2nd if the black guy engages in more extra curricular activties like professional organizations, intramural sports, convincing poor high school students that they can make it to college as opposed to the white kid who studies and plays video games all day , The black guy deserves to be admited hands down because he made good grades while engaging in various projects.

screw them they have the Presidency and Vice Presidency, most of the supreme court judges, and they dont want others to thrive. screw them hundred times. They also forget that affirmative action helps White women more than it helps black people. After all white women are minorities and apply for minority scholarships in school

;d

Hey Sefago!
I'm not at Wesleyan. It used to be my first choice school in 10th grade (when i joined Nairaland) and 11th, since it's so close to my state. lol gosh i'm so old on this site.

I know AA will make students who got in on merit look bad, in fact that was what happened to this Chicano author Richard Rodriguez, but I think there are pros and cons on either side.
AA makes sense to me but the only thing i hate about it is the fact that it benefits the upper class blacks rather than the lower and middle class blacks who need it the most.

If there were some other solution for the underrepresentation of minorities at prestigious colleges, I won't mind them doing away with AA. They probably should throw out the SAT 'cause i hate ETS w/ a passion (maybe only the rich doesn't). I'm not trying to sound communist or socialist here (not that there's anything wrong with either ideology) but come on.

I personally wouldn't feel bad or care much if someone comes up to me and try to tell me i got into so and so college because of AA. Well I might feel a little bad about it since i'm African rather than African American. and that's my point exactly! most of the time the people who need this thing the most don't get it!

oh well. If you can come up with a way to get representation for African Americans in schools like yours . . . but till then, i think Affirmative Action should stay. Even though it's not perfect, it's something.

for some reason, some people never cease to blame their rejections on Blacks, but they know legacies and athletes get preferential treatment also but most of the time, they choose to overlook that.

oh yeah. Quotas are illegal. Do schools really use them? (for students other than internationals).

;d

;d

on one episode like dat on scrub the black guy was chosen to be the face of the hospital. he didn't like it and he did something about it and it stopped.
in real life even if they don't like AA it still has some advantage to it. would a guy who was accepted to lets say harvard or princeton cuz he's african american or wateva be willing to say no thank you i would rather go to diz unheard of college here where i would be sure i got in bcuz of my merits?
if i get accepted to like d koolest college eva cuz i'm black, i'm packing my bags. i don't really care. i'm d only blk kid in my calculus class but i don't feel like i'm d only blk kid cuz we all get along and joke everytime. blk/white/asian don't really care. to me i see it as them wanting to create a balance between all d race.