davidylan:

They are in heaven today . . .

jerrymania:

Please David can you show me some verse,facts or statements in the bible that claim those Mighty Men of God are in Heaven?

mdsocks:

and this is a case of you not understanding Islam before blutting out
This is a well known miracle of Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W)

davidylan:

Really? the problem is not how "well known" the miracle is but IF there were any witnesses besides the lies of mohammed to back this up. Who are those who saw this "splitting of the moon", where and when?
It seems very few muslims believe this fraud anyway as you rarely hear of it except when they are feverishly searching for just about anything to show that mohammed too could perform "magic" _{err sorry miracles}.

All the miracles Jesus Christ performed where for a specific purpose . . . what was the purpose of "splitting the moon"? If it ever occured, how did the splitting of the moon heal the sick, raise the dead, free the oppressed, provide for the poor?

cgift:

Would you just get lost! If you want answers to that, open another thread. Seeming detractor!

jerrymania:

@ davidylan

why are you escaping my question?

davidylan:

Sir, i avoid no questions. The mighty prophets of old are in paradise. Depending on your level of spiritual understanding people do say that paradise is slightly lower than heaven and that we don't all really get to heaven until after the rapture. I tend to disagree though but God knows better.

Ever read about the translation of Enoch? Elijah never saw death but was transported to heaven in a chariot of fire.

Look at the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus Christ mentions Lazarus being in the bossom of Abraham in paradise.

Christian Reason!!!

what if elijah was taken to another "entire" different location? oh so you mean Elijah went to heaven when even Jesus Christ said himself "And no man hath ascended up to heaven , but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is from heaven." John 3:13 what if i just said a lie?

Look at the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus Christ mentions Lazarus being in the bossom of Abraham in paradise

what if you just read that verse Literally

jerrymania:

Christian Reason!!!

what if elijah was taken to another "entire" different location? oh so you mean Elijah went to heaven when even Jesus Christ said himself "And no man hath ascended up to heaven , but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is from heaven." John 3:13 what if i just said a lie?

what if you just read that verse Literally

davidylan:

I don't know everything, i learn everyday and i will appreciate if someone more knowledgeable sheds some light on this issue.
thanks

jerrymania:

Good Manners now u know "And no man hath ascended up to heaven , but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is from heaven." John 3:13 is true and this The mighty prophets of old are in paradise false. right?

davidylan:

1. It is not a matter of "good manners", its is certain you asked the "question" NOT to seek for answers but trying to appear smart. There is no hide and seek with the bible. . . paradise and heaven are 2 different places. That the bible chooses to use both words uninterchangeable should be enough evidence.

2. The mighty prophets of old are in paradise. True. you can choose to hit your head on the wall, it doesnt change the truth.

Another New Doctrine? ehn? the mighty prophets of old are in paradise but not heaven according to Our Lord "And no man hath ascended up to heaven , but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is from heaven." John 3:13 ,now were is paradise referred to in the scriptures,i mean in which testament, and what is it referred to? (find out more in the book of revelations, last book )

True. you can choose to hit your head on the wall, it doesnt change the truth

jerrymania:

Another New Doctrine? ehn? the mighty prophets of old are in paradise but not heaven according to Our Lord "And no man hath ascended up to heaven , but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is from heaven." John 3:13 ,now were is paradise referred to in the scriptures,i mean in which testament, and what is it referred to? (find out more in the book of revelations, last book )

jerrymania:

Why do you refer to what you don't understand as the truth. you gave no scriptural backing and you sounded sentimental and fanatic you choose to hit your head on the wall. So is that the truth that shapes your life? u still havent taken breast milk still u want to walk

davidylan:

Apparently you now see yourself as intelligent, nothing could be farther from the truth: here are just a few for people like you who don't read before making noise:
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter

jerrymania:

Infact you are the noise maker, twisting yourself up. now do you refute this still[b] "And no man hath ascended up to heaven , but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is from heaven." John 3:13[/b] God Forbid! Then what is this "paradise" you are always sounding? how is it referred to in the bible? Christian Reason!!!

davidylan:

You are not i search of the truth and that is why you will continue tripping your feet all over John 3:13.

Did you read the statement of Jesus Christ Himself as quoted in Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.? Did i put that word "paradise" in the book of Luke? Maybe you can carry John 3:13 to Christ and accuse Him of lying and misusing words on the cross.

davidylan:

It may sound crazy but Paul himself gives us a not too clear insight into the fact that there may actually be different grades of heaven of which paradise might be one. Again the bible is not very clear on this so i wont give a categorical statement. Judge for yourself and the Holy Spirit guide those who are truly in search of knowledge:

Those who cling to John 3:13 and clap themselves on the back for having discovered yet another christian "trap" can continue reveling in their own delusions.

2 Corinthians 12: 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

jerrymania:

Christian Reason!!!!
did Jesus ascend to heaven that same day? what did your bible tell you? he even resurrected (not ascend) three days later.ascension took place days after resurrection. so how could the prisoner have gone to paradise that same day of crucifixion? and Jesus,as some preachers say, went to "hell" to minister to lost souls, so he didnt ascend either. what if Jesus was affirming the prisoner that what he said today must surely come to pass?

jerrymania:

I wont judge for myself. The bible is there,if it is insipred by God,it will show me what i need to know even if its by "one verse". do you know what paradise means?. why should the third heaven be paradise, where is your scriptural proof to this?

davidylan:

. You cry "christian reason" and yet all the best you can come up with is "human reasoning" that does not even fall within acceptable boundaries of human intelligence.
-

jerrymania:

Hey u just slapped your very own mouth.

I don't need to write much like u do,so as to delude fellow Nlanders into believing your self acclaimed belief which is entirely urs and your own creation. This is entirely a new doctrine i'm seeing. You are pissing me off. you are just another sick fanatic. now i wonder your frequent bashing of muslims.
Who did Jesus comit his spirit to if he was "ALMIGHTY GOD" "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands i commend my spirit"-----------Luke 23:46a "and having said thus, he gave up the ghost", so 'GOD' gave up the ghost? fool!

davidylan:

That is the beauty of christianity. You are allowed the freedom of choice. . . to read the bible and form your own oppinion based on the interpretation of the Holy Spirit or your carnal, unsaved soul.
You don't have the basic understanding of the scriptures so your cries of "this is entirely a new doctrine" is hogwash at best. Start from trying to understand the pslams before jumping to read the book of John. We all started from psalm 23 too.

Back to addressing your penchant of just quoting scriptures and interpreting them based on your poor level of comprehension . . . The same Jesus Christ who made the statement "Father into thy hands i commend my Spirit . . ." was the very same one who made the following statements:

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Care to explain what Jesus Christ was trying to convey in John 14 to us o thou man of immense "reasoning"?

davidylan:

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It amazes me how you've got a great arsenal of verses to defend yourself when you run out of steam. You've proven to me you know nothing at all and i was respecting your opinions all the while. Your best bet is with the Muslims, keep on bashing them. i'm out

jerrymania:

but do you also have the basic understanding of the scriptures? if you had basic understanding you would know that "No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him"John 1:18. if you were on the earth in the New Testament and you had to see and know God, who would it be, Jesus Christ. why? now use your dumb brain or the holy spirit to know why. Post after post you are gradually showing the hogwash that you are.

jerrymania:

Why u using Sir as if you are polite? holy spirit carrier?

It amazes me how you've got a great arsenal of verses to defend yourself when you run out of steam. You've proven to me you know nothing at all and i was respecting your opinions all the while. Your best bet is with the Muslims, keep on bashing them. i'm out

davidylan:

lol you quote the scriptures and then promptly use your human reasoning to rationalise things that can only be discerned by the Spirit.

1  Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

When you talk about "basic understanding" are you refering to the understanding that 2 + 2 = 4?
Sorry sir - Isaiah 55: 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
  9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Back to the verse that makes you stumble; Indeed NO man hath seen the Lord . . .  1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Take a good look at what Paul infers in that verse in 1 Timothy . . . he categorically confirms that Jesus Christ indeed was and is GOD only manifesting in human flesh. God in all His glory cannot die, He needed to become like me and you, to be hungry like you and i, to feel pain, to suffer thirst just like you and me and to finally shed His blood on the cross that you and me may have eternal life.

Yes no man hath seen the Lord but we shall see Him one day when He comes on the wings of the clouds to take us home. Remember the visit of the 3 angels to Abraham? No man hath never seen angels but Abraham could correctly discern that he had been visited by angels in human form.

I was begining to believe you but now you sure do stink to me. So who did Lot see? chickens? Gideon? frog? John? leprechauns? Gudnite!

jerrymania:

God, i wanted to go to sleep.

I was begining to believe you but now you sure do stink to me. So who did Lot see? chickens? Gideon? frog? John? leprechauns? Gudnite!

olabowale:

@Davidylan: Why would God have to be like you and me? He did not know the qualitative conditions that He had subjected man to, when He created man? Wow. No wonder your God is different from my God. Yours have to experience all these human frilities, in order to be justice or merciful.

olabowale:

My God is different and completely above all the subjective conditions of His creation, including Jinn and man! Yet He is capable of forgiving by giving unmitigated Mercy. And He will punish, if He will, whoever of His creation that He wishes to punish, if they disobey His commands.

olabowale:

Who can challenge Him and why would He have to go through human difficulties to be merciful?