Nairaland Forum

Ubenedictus:
1. where is it in the bible? My bible say that mary and Joseph were bethorted before the apparation, the were not married, they were not living together, an they couldnt Be Intimate.

2. the 'brothers of Jesus' can mean relative or just jews it doesnt necessary mean biological brother.

3. it is a pity that you dont even know the meaning of sacred tradition, well what can i expect from your 21 century church. If u want to know d meaning of sacred Tradition please feel free to ask

4. you are speculating because i dont self-service and the angel told mary as it is written in greek 'kecharitomene' usually translated as highly favoured, but the surprising thing is that charito comes from charitoo, meaning grace kecharitomen is grace in its pefect passive participle. It actually mean that she has already been endowed with complete permanent grace. This is a reason y she is a fully chaste virgin because God had already given he a complete permanent grace.

5. the problem is that you fail to grasp the full import of reality, the marriage of mary and joseph is not contemporary marriage it is preordain with a single purpose i.e Jesus the son of God

OLAADEGBU:

I may have to spoil your lovely dogma here. James as referred to in James 1:1 is the Lord's step brother as other verses confirm. James is called "the Lord’s brother" (Galatians 1:19), and is apparently the one mentioned in Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55 as the first of four "brethren" of Jesus who were sons of Mary. There is nowhere mentioned that he was a relative or cousin as you have been indoctrinated.

joe4christ:

And in addition; John 7:1-10

1 After this, Jesus went around in Galilee, purposely
staying away from Judea because the Jews there were
waiting to take his life. 2 But when the Jewish Feast of
Tabernacles was near, 3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “You
ought to leave here and go to Judea, so that your
disciples may see the miracles you do. 4 No one who
wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you
are doing these things, show yourself to the world.” 5 For
even his own brothers did not believe in him.
6 Therefore Jesus told them, “The right time for me
has not yet come; for you any time is right. 7 The world
cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that
what it does is evil. 8 You go to the Feast. I am not yet a
going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has
not yet come.” 9 Having said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left for the Feast,
he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

OLAADEGBU:

What point are you trying to extract from the passage above?

joe4christ:

Ok, let me break it down further:

John 7:1-10
1 After this, Jesus went around in
Galilee, purposely
staying away from Judea because the
Jews there were
waiting to take his life. 2 But when the
Jewish Feast of
Tabernacles was near, 3 Jesus’ brothers

said to him, “You
ought to leave here and go to Judea, so
that your
DISCIPLES may see the miracles you do. 4
No one who
wants to become a public figure acts in
secret. Since you
are doing these things, show yourself
to the world.” 5 For
even his own brothers did not believe
in him.
6 Therefore Jesus told them, “The right
time for me
has not yet come; for you any time is
right. 7 The world
cannot hate you, but it hates me
because I testify that
what it does is evil. 8 You go to the
Feast. I am not yet a
going up to this Feast, because for me
the right time has
not yet come.” 9 Having said this, he
stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left
for the Feast,
he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

I guess this should be self-explanatery enough!

Ptolomeus:
"It can mean" "may refer" "is an issue of tradition" or "is a parable" Come on! Let's not be naive. That remark caused laughter!. I pray you have a bit of seriousness.

Ubenedictus:

the worst twist of bible passages i have ever seen. My friend u better stop this or u are asking for the curse in the last chapter of revelation.

italo:

James, "the Lord's brother", "the apostle" is James "the son of Alpheus" that was named among the "apostles".

Only two James' were mentioned.

Now I would like to re-ask you some questions which you tactfully dodged initially:

1. Who did Jesus refer to as "MY BROTHERS" in John 20: 17?

2. Why would Jesus hand over his mother to John (to take her into his home) if he had 6 or more siblings born by her?

3.

So from what history book or writing did you find that all the apostles, except John, were martyred?

Did the young Jewish woman Mary remain a virgin AFTER Jesus Christ was born into this world? The answer is absolutely NO! In fact Mary gave birth to several other children AFTER the birth of Jesus! Mary and Joseph had a natural marital intimate relationship, AFTER the birth of Jesus Christ into this world. Do not be fooled by those who teach LIES! Read the Bible for yourself!

Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And KNEW HER NOT TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (Matthew 1:22-25)

Ubenedictus:

pls is that what ur pastor told u? Show me one verse that say 'scripture interprete itself with no external influence' if u cant that means u are simply following ur pastor. My bible says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth, sorry that u dont have that type of church because ur 'church' started in the 20th century.

The Lord saved me from the deception of Roman Catholicism in 1989, and He showed me that the Lord God was the ONLY true ROCK, and that Peter was merely a SINFUL man in need of mercy and salvation, just like the rest of us!

The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. (Psalms 18:2)

To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him. (Psalms 92:15)

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)

italo: Olaadegbu,

Good! I was expecting u to dodge my questions as usual. But, don't be scared, they're not too dfcult to answer...and they're very few too.

And y don't u tell me anytn I've ignored, if any?

Ptolomeus:
1. Your Bible is very selective. In addition ... Joseph and Mary were not married? Of course not ... They were married in the Catholic church because the church did not exist. But they were a couple. We do not doubt anyone.Understand the historical context. It is impossible to imagine a couple who do not have se.x. Se.x was not sin (or so). For that reason Joseph did not have all the possible se.x with Mary? Even the unimaginable.

2. "It can mean" "may refer" "is an issue of tradition" or "is a parable" Come on! Let's not be naive. That remark caused laughter!. I pray you have a bit of seriousness.

3. XXI century church? But ... you whom I confuses me?
You have drunk too much?
Sacred Tradition? You know what that means? Means "this is sacred, and you accept it and tell you. Not ask or think."
Trash!

4. Self. Right. Wont back to my original.
For Mary was a virgin was necessary
a) That Joseph did self (that ugly ... that does not speak well of Joseph)
b) That Joseph was ga.y
c) That Mary was frigid
d) That Mary was a le.sbian
e) That Mary and Joseph were bis.exual
f) That Joseph was impotent.
It would really be preferable that had been normal ... IF these were the parents of god ... what is for Jesus!

5. Exactly.
At that time it was unthinkable a se.xless marriage. Not talking about modernism but of realities. You make a story no one will believe to blame Joseph homosexuality or frigidity of Maria. Instead of sanctifying, you humiliated.
Accept the logic. Mary and Joseph made se.x three or four times a day ... Nor was convicted of adultery, so that Mary may have had se.x with several men.
Stop making excuses that no one will believe.

joe4christ:

And in addition; John 7:1-10

1 After this, Jesus went around in Galilee, purposely
staying away from Judea because the Jews there were
waiting to take his life. 2 But when the Jewish Feast of
Tabernacles was near, 3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “You
ought to leave here and go to Judea, so that your
disciples may see the miracles you do. 4 No one who
wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you
are doing these things, show yourself to the world.” 5 For
even his own brothers did not believe in him.
6 Therefore Jesus told them, “The right time for me
has not yet come; for you any time is right. 7 The world
cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that
what it does is evil. 8 You go to the Feast. I am not yet a
going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has
not yet come.” 9 Having said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left for the Feast,
he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

OLAADEGBU:

It should be self explanatory but not to those who hold firmly to their church traditions or ideologies. The evolutionists hold on tenaciously to their false ideology that the ape-like creatures were their ancestors and claim the earth as their mothers. The moment we reject the truth in Scriptures we will be open to the deceptions of the enemy from the pit of hell.

Ubenedictus:

this a a ad hominem, go and learn how to make a good and sound arguement.

Ubenedictus: this is ignorance, this is trash, trash again.

Ptolomeus:
You refer to "trash" as a parable?, Figuratively? or as a sacred tradition?

Please answer to which of the possibilities that Joseph should not Be Intimate with Mary.
For Mary was a virgin WAS NECESSARY
a) That Joseph did self (that ugly ... that does not speak well of Joseph)
b) That Joseph WAS ga.y
c) That Mary was frigid
d) That Mary was a le.sbian
e) That Were Mary and Joseph bis.exual
f) That Joseph WAS impotent.
It would really be preferable Been That HAD normal ... If These Were the parents of god ... what is for Jesus!

You are making fools defending this.
In a society such as the Roman libertine ... what woman had se.x in the middle of the street? Mary was the exception?
Although it is something nasty, I can accept that Mary had se.x with a spirit (that filth ... that se.xual deviation) but you do not ask me to believe that Mary was a virgin as well ...
Few women would have se.x with a spirit ... I guess I accept die very promiscuous and experienced.

OLAADEGBU:

Listen to someone who used to share your beliefs before he saw the light. You might learn a thing or two about who your foundation really is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLE9hz8cIt8

OLAADEGBU:

Do you actually know what Ad Hominem means? If you do can you briefly explain?

Ubenedictus:

i wont waste my time trying to explain it. Search for it google will help.

Ubenedictus: Mary didnt Be Intimate with a spirit because spirit cant Be Intimate, she bore Jesus thru the power of the spirit. Most of what you write is heresy

Ptolomeus:
You say that I am a heretic?
You! you claim that Joseph was a cuc.kold!
You say that Joseph was g.ay or impotent ... You're a heretic!
You have not thought that maybe your virgin status is hurting your brain?
Mastur.bation is also a sin, generates habit and is not healthy ...

Ubenedictus:

An ad hominem is an attempt to downgrade your opponents arguement by pointing to percieved negatives in your opponents belief. You just tried to downgrade my arguement by pointing fingers on what you consider negatives in my believes like evolution

OLAADEGBU:

That's where you got it wrong. Ad hominem is directing an argument against the person making the claim rather than the claim itself. The phrase is a Latin word which means "to the man".

Anyone using this logical fallacy hopes that people will reject their opponents claim because there is something objectionable about the person making the claim which is irrelevant to the claim the opponent is making.

Ubenedictus:

one of the worst thing you can do to the truth is to cut it or withold some of it. The logical fallacy 'to the man' is not limited to abuse it also includes condeming unrelated issues what you consider negatives in the persons belief. You just tried to condem evolution (a totally unrelated issue) in your attempt to downgrade my belief system. Im sure wiki says the same thing.

OLAADEGBU:

Evolution is what the OP about but the issue of Mary having other children is the side issue. The only reason I related it to your issue is that Evolutionists also hold tenaciously to the theory that the ape-like creatures are their ancestors just as you are holding to the dogma that Mary remained a Virgin after the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And as to the phrase Ad hominem, it can either be abusive or circumstantial. The bottom line is that it is an attack against the person making the claim. And I believe that I didn't attack, insult or abuse your person.

Ubenedictus:

consort wikipedia it also include an attack on the persons belief.

Ubenedictus: you are trying to put words im my mouth. You are the person who said that joseph is gay, impotent and that mary musturbate. My point remains that mary was a virgin. And lastly my dear friend i dont self-service.

OLAADEGBU:

That is what I will call circumstantial ad hominem fallacy, which is where a critic simply dismisses a person's argument based on the arguer's circumstances. Where have I used your circumstance to falsify your claim?

OLAADEGBU:

That is what I will call circumstantial ad hominem fallacy, which is where a critic simply dismisses a person's argument based on the arguer's circumstances. Where have I used your circumstance to falsify your claim?