@Nwando: You know I love you, right? Please listen. When i asked you to give the Biblical way to address fornication or adultery, I did not know that you will result to Paul Saul writings. Paul who the whole of Christendom should be ashamed of, and walk away from him as quickly as they can!

We must never forget that, Jesus said in one of the. 'according to Gospels.' that he did not come to change the laws, but to fulfill them. This 'laws' that he will not change, but must fulfill, is what was given to Moses by his Lord! Moses was informed of the children of Israel's revolt, and thereby created a god, in the form of a Golden calf, while he was away to receive the Tablets! What did Moses do when he arrived? He cursed the leader of the revolt, with a leprosy and this man became an untouchable! Yet the man's will still be punished in the day of Judgement. The people who were adults, say, 40 years old and beyond, all died off, while the general population went around, unable to find their way to their destination for 40 years.

Further, Moses punished adulterer by stoning. Jesus, did not abrogate any of Moses' laws. He only required those who would be executioners be people who themselves are not committers of the same sin.

However, from your quotes above of Rev, Heb and Cor verses, we see that Moses and Jesus mutual way is being circumvented. Who is the culprit? No other but Mr Paul and his cohort. So that you know, he is not a thorn on my side or anyone who is on my side of the aisle. We just simply point out the mistake out to you. thats all. As I read these verses from Revelations, hebrew and Corinthian, I see that Paul is providing his own opinion and passing it up for revelation! It just does not work!

Whats the purpose of carrying out the punishment laid out for sins, eg fornication? For starter, if an individual does not take the sin so commonly that it becomes a routine or second nature, more than likely, he would have stopped before getting caught! Punishment is therefore carried out, to serve as a deterrent for those who may wish to engage in it, in the future. And also, it act as a severance action on the one that commits the sin.

It is the deterrence processes for sins that is missing in Christianity, is one of the bad qualities that the religion has. It therefore becomes do whatever you want. But of course, you have the blood sacrifice of the innocent man, the lamb to absorb you from even the most horrendous sins.

olabowale:

@Nwando: You know I love you, right? Please listen. When i asked you to give the Biblical way to address fornication or adultery, I did not know that you will result to Paul Saul writings. Paul who the whole of Christendom should be ashamed of, and walk away from him as quickly as they can!

We must never forget that, Jesus said in one of the. 'according to Gospels.' that he did not come to change the laws, but to fulfill them. This 'laws' that he will not change, but must fulfill, is what was given to Moses by his Lord! Moses was informed of the children of Israel's revolt, and thereby created a god, in the form of a Golden calf, while he was away to receive the Tablets! What did Moses do when he arrived? He cursed the leader of the revolt, with a leprosy and this man became an untouchable! Yet the man's will still be punished in the day of Judgement. The people who were adults, say, 40 years old and beyond, all died off, while the general population went around, unable to find their way to their destination for 40 years.

Further, Moses punished adulterer by stoning. Jesus, did not abrogate any of Moses' laws. He only required those who would be executioners be people who themselves are not committers of the same sin.

However, from your quotes above of Rev, Heb and Cor verses, we see that Moses and Jesus mutual way is being circumvented. Who is the culprit? No other but Mr Paul and his cohort. So that you know, he is not a thorn on my side or anyone who is on my side of the aisle. We just simply point out the mistake out to you. thats all. As I read these verses from Revelations, hebrew and Corinthian, I see that Paul is providing his own opinion and passing it up for revelation! It just does not work!

Whats the purpose of carrying out the punishment laid out for sins, eg fornication? For starter, if an individual does not take the sin so commonly that it becomes a routine or second nature, more than likely, he would have stopped before getting caught! Punishment is therefore carried out, to serve as a deterrent for those who may wish to engage in it, in the future. And also, it act as a severance action on the one that commits the sin.

It is the deterrence processes for sins that is missing in Christianity, is one of the bad qualities that the religion has. It therefore becomes do whatever you want. But of course, you have the blood sacrifice of the innocent man, the lamb to absorb you from even the most horrendous sins.

I love you too.
but my love,Apostle Paul is part and parcel of the Bible.
His words and letters are inspired just like all Biblical books so stop hating
It won't change a thing

and confirming his words,see what Christ said about a woman that committed adultery.

8:2 Now early[fn1] in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them.

Jhn 8:3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst,

Jhn 8:4 they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman was caught[fn2] in adultery, in the very act.

Jhn 8:5 "Now Moses, in the law, commanded[fn3] us that such should be stoned.[fn4] But what do You say?"[fn5]

Jhn 8:6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.[fn6]

Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up[fn7] and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first."

Jhn 8:8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.

Jhn 8:9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience,[fn8] went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Jhn 8:10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her,[fn9] "Woman, where are those accusers of yours?[fn10] Has no one condemned you?"

Jhn 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and[fn11] sin no more."
J

olabowale:

We must never forget that, Jesus said in one of the. 'according to Gospels.' that he did not come to change the laws, but to fulfill them. This 'laws' that he will not change, but must fulfill, is what was given to Moses by his Lord! Further, Moses punished adulterer by stoning. Jesus, did not abrogate any of Moses' laws. He only required those who would be executioners be people who themselves are not committers of the same sin.

However, from your quotes above of Rev, Heb and Cor verses, we see that Moses and Jesus mutual way is being circumvented. Who is the culprit? No other but Mr Paul and his cohort. So that you know, he is not a thorn on my side or anyone who is on my side of the aisle. We just simply point out the mistake out to you. thats all. As I read these verses from Revelations, hebrew and Corinthian, I see that Paul is providing his own opinion and passing it up for revelation! It just does not work!

The little story above answers the question.Christ came with a better covenant not an eye for an eye like Mohammed taught and practised.
Every sinner has countless opportunity for repentance even you.
I'm sure you must have committed fornication or even adultery at some point,did you submit yourself for flogging?

olabowale:

It is the deterrence processes for sins that is missing in Christianity, is one of the bad qualities that the religion has. It therefore becomes do whatever you want. But of course, you have the blood sacrifice of the innocent man, the lamb to absorb you from even the most horrendous sins.

You are wrong again,grace does not give you license to sin.
Every Christian is expected by the Scriptures to live a holy life.
You cannot do what you want,you are not being truthful.

Now hear from apostle Paul again,by the Holy Spirit.Read all of Romans 6 but here is an excerpt



Rom 6:1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

Rom 6:2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Rom 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Rom 6:13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
.
Rom 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
[b][/b]
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Good folks,
ehm dont you think we've abandoned the topic of the thread? Or perhaps it is because the reasons have been exhaustively dealt with & that's the reason 4 the digression?
Incidentally, this 'off topic' has been treated in various threads too - and so far, there are no new 'revelations' by this our antagonisms. Dont you kind folks think we should end this & move on? Getting boring, no?
Just a suggestion really.

Insert Quote
Good folks,
ehm don't you think we've abandoned the topic of the thread? Or perhaps it is because the reasons have been exhaustively dealt with & that's the reason for the digression?
Incidentally, this 'off topic' has been treated in various threads too - and so far, there are no new 'revelations' by this our antagonisms. Dont you kind folks think we should end this & move on? Getting boring, no?
Just a suggestion really

Good point

I tink,d sender of ds topic want rsonable and sensible people 2 contribute,not d like of davidylan,wu has turn d house in2 a rligion battle.Anyway,2 me,d cause of ds prblm come 4rm muslim faithful girls dt hide dia feelin(luv) for less faitful muslim guys.Ds guys find it dficult 2 approach d sisters bcause dey fear notin but embarasmnt on dia low faith in islam.I tnk is very rare 2 c strong faitful guy 2 marry 4rm other rligion.So,d prblm lies wit our sisters,let dem stop isolating dia less faithful guys.Once he is a muslim take him and hav a strong bliev of make him Stronger in islam.

So,i beg all d house mate mot 2 rspond 2 davidylan again on ds issue so as 2 adress d real prblm ,let make it "silent is a answer for a fool" Wu hv no respect for odas pple faith.[color=#990000]

I tink,d sender of ds topic want rsonable and sensible people 2 contribute,not d like of davidylan,wu has turn d house in2 a rligion battle.Anyway,2 me,d cause of ds prblm come 4rm muslim faithful girls dt hide dia feelin(luv) for less faitful muslim guys.Ds guys find it dficult 2 approach d sisters bcause dey fear notin but embarasmnt on dia low faith in islam.I tnk is very rare 2 c strong faitful guy 2 marry 4rm other rligion.So,d prblm lies wit our sisters,let dem stop isolating dia less faithful guys.Once he is a muslim take him and hav a strong bliev of make him Stronger in islam.

So,i beg all d house mate mot 2 rspond 2 davidylan again on ds issue so as 2 adress d real prblm ,let make it "silent is a answer for a fool" Wu hv no respect for odas pple faith.[color=#990000]

I wonder why some people don't reason b4 they something like this. This is secular state you don't expect us to live in segregation, we need one another being a Muslim or xtian. Please we should try and see ourselves as one. you know love has no boundary.

@Nwando: Your story about the accused woman on charges of adultery, above proof what Islam is saying: First Jesus did not come to change the laws given to Moses. There was no one to truly accuse the woman, because, her would be accusers' conscience, individually would not pass muster. They themselves, have committed the same sins, secretly. God revealed to Jesus, the secret of these evil people, which was what he wrote on the ground.

Since he, Jesus, did not see this woman in the act and there was no one left standing to accuse her, he could not deliver the 'SHARIAH,' on her!

In Suratul Maidah, Chapter 5, verse 110, one reads where it is stated that God revealed to Jesus, what the Children of Israel stored up in their homes. This is talking about that adultery incedent. If Jesus did not see fit, to abrogate the law of Moses, even though, he Jesus, had just demostrated the MERCY part of that law, with the woman, how can your beloved Paul, cancelled Moses laws and the ignore what Jesus said about the same laws?

All these noise makers . . .

olabowale:

@Nwando: Your story about the accused woman on charges of adultery, above proof what Islam is saying: First Jesus did not come to change the laws given to Moses.

Islam has been saying nothing at all. Jesus Christ Himself did not require the quran to say anything on His behalf . . . see here: Mathew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The bible is more than clear on a fact you try so hard to smuggle into the quran.

olabowale:

There was no one to truly accuse the woman, because, her would be accusers' conscience, individually would not pass muster. They themselves, have committed the same sins, secretly. God revealed to Jesus, the secret of these evil people, which was what he wrote on the ground.

and where sir did you get that "revelation" from? Is it written in your quran? How can you be so dishonest? Is that story even in the quran at all? How then do you know what Christ wrote in the sand?
What Jesus Christ was trying to show in that story was the importance of:
1. forgiveness
2. Not judging our fellow brother
3. Redemption!

olabowale:

Since he, Jesus, did not see this woman in the act and there was no one left standing to accuse her, he could not deliver the 'SHARIAH,' on her!

Again more absolutely dishonest hogwash! Where is the "sharia" mentioned in the bible?
Christ forgave the woman, He wasnt waiting to stone her after all the men had left. The other men were witnesses to the act, why didnt Christ allow them to stone her if indeed they were operating on sharia law?

olabowale:

In Suratul Maidah, Chapter 5, verse 110, one reads where it is stated that God revealed to Jesus, what the Children of Israel stored up in their homes. This is talking about that adultery incedent. If Jesus did not see fit, to abrogate the law of Moses, even though, he Jesus, had just demostrated the MERCY part of that law, with the woman, how can your beloved Paul, cancelled Moses laws and the ignore what Jesus said about the same laws?

Dear sir, i detest dishonesty with every fibre of my being and that is what you and your quran represent to me. Suratul Maidah 5:110 say absolutely NOTHING about the incident in the bible that you so desperately try to tie to it!

- Paul did not "cancel" the laws of Moses . . . rather he carefully and diligently explains to us God's plan after the Redemption with His blood to rescue us from the law of sin and death that could not save us from sin back under the law of grace . . .
Unfortunately since this completely exposes mohammed's fraud neither could Mo explain anything Paul wrote to suit islam, it has become convenient for muslims to write him off!

@david-liar


I read your trash felt no need replying same but part of your post caught my attention and I had to lift it out for to read your dishonesty.

- Paul did not "cancel" the laws of Moses . . . rather he carefully and diligently explains to us God's plan after the Redemption with His blood to rescue us from the law of sin and death that could not save us from sin back under the law of grace . . .
Unfortunately since this completely exposes mohammed's fraud neither could Mo explain anything Paul wrote to suit islam, it has become convenient for muslims to write him off!

Before even going into that of PAUL, please did Jesus not abrogate/cancel part of Moses' law? It seems I would post Paul's sayings that showed him as an ANTI-CHRIST. Hope you know that I have not been giving you verses from your bible but will start very soon to expose the fraud n your book and let you know that Paul disorganised your religion.

Have a lovely day.

combatant:

Before even going into that of PAUL, please did Jesus not abrogate/cancel part of Moses' law?

First question: why is Jesus Christ and the law of Moses of any relevance to muslims? Are the laws of Moses part of the sharia laws?
I quoted Mathew 5:17 in my last post . . . and yet you dishonestly ask the above question?

combatant:

It seems I would post Paul's sayings that showed him as an ANTI-CHRIST.

It seems you dont even understand the meaning of the word "anti-christ". An anti-christ is one who DENIES the LORDSHIP of the Lord Jesus Christ . . . His death on the cross, His resurrection and His plan of salvation to all mankind. Mohammed, allah, the quran and all muslims DENY all these and you have the gall to accuse Paul of the very thing that your religion symbolises?

combatant:

Hope you know that I have not been giving you verses from your bible but will start very soon to expose the fraud n your book and let you know that Paul disorganised your religion.

Again i have a problem with people who are too eager to prove that Paul "disorganised" christianity.
1. Christianity is NOT a religion . . . i hope you understand where the name "christians" came from.
2. Of what relevance is the bible to muslims? Why are they so desperate to "expose" Paul? Could it be because Paul's presence makes islam's claims to being the "final revelation" of "god" a complete fabrication?

pls sir. . . we are already well off topic. Stick to WHY islam forbids your women from marrying christian men but HYPOCRITICALLY, DISHONESTLY and DUBIOUSLY allows muslim men to marry christian women!

It beats me how these muslims bang their heads on the wall over Paul and the Bible.
Why should they care?
They claim they don't believe in the Bible since allah allowed his original Bible to be lost.
Why do they yet bother?
And then on one hand,they see Mohammed revealed in the Bible.
Get a life guys.
One one hand,the old testament prophets are their prophets and when the e-jihad starts they deny them.

Why can't this people stop all this al taquiyahh!!

now back to the topic,why do Muslims prefer to date Christians.
Answer:Christian look more presentable
Every man would want a good looking,presentable,sociable,well dressed,intelligent chick by his side,it could be the muslimas just ain't got it.

Now that is my opinion!

David that was a great response to olabowole.
I don't know if it pains them that Christians are not chopping off hands and stoning innocent women to death.
Isn't it the same sharia that wants to punish a girl in Saudi Arabia for "allowing herself to be gang RAPED" by 7 men or so.
what a "glorious" sharia.

People who have flushed their god given commonsense down the loo
basing it on the teachings of an slowpoke
Even Chimpanzees would think better.
why should a girl hijabed I might add,after being humiliated by animals be subjected to further dehumanisation in the hands of allah's able slaves and there is no outrage from the muslim wrld.
The only ones shouting themselves hoarse are in the free world that they condemn.
Hypocrites!

Then allah intervened on her behalf
or did he?

The woman was originally sentenced in October 2006 to 90 lashes. But that sentence was more than doubled to 200 lashes and six months in prison by the Qatif General Court, because she spoke to the media about the case, a court source told Middle Eastern daily newspaper Arab News.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/20/saudi.rape.victim/index.html

Next time any Muslims tell you of Sharia think of this woman,think of Amina Lawal in Nigeria,the Christians killed in Afghanistan for their faith and a host of others too numerous to mention.
and think of the happy man below,bearing the evidence of sharia.
allah must be jumping in joy.

To bring it nearer home,think of this man who probably stole a chicken while his governor looted millions and went scot free.
allah is indeed merciful.

Is this one of the " Shoot all the muslim " thread again 

@Davidylan: May Almighty grant you paradise, by softening your heart, so that it can receive guidance. It was persistant request that you be told how to access the Stories of the prophets, that prompted me to google it. Under it, you will find the prophets listed, and there are many writers of Islam, who penned materials, concerning the subject. Under Isa bin Mariam, (as), the below is about his process of how he was able to wrestle the poor woman who was accused of adultery, from the clutch of the sinful mob, pretending to be righteous men.


Extract from the stories of the prophets. (Isa bin Mariam, (as)).

'Isa told them that caring for this world is a sin, not fit for pious worshippers. The disbeliveers care for it because they do not know a better way. As for the believers, they know that their sustenance is with Allah, so they trust in Him and scorn this world.

Isa continued to invite people to worship the Only Lord, Who is without partner, just as he invited them to purify the heart and soul.

His teaching annoyed the priests, for every word of Isa was a threat to them and their position, exposing their misdeeds.

The Roman occupiers had, at first, no intention of being involved in this religious discord of the Jews because it was an internal affair, and they saw that this dispute would distract the Jews from the question of the occupation.

"However, the priests started to plot against Isa. They wanted to embarrass him and to prove that he had come to destroy the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law provides that an adulteress be stoned to death. They brought him a Jewish adulteress and asked Isa: "Does not the law stipulate the stoning of the adulteress?" Isa answered: "Yes." They said: "This woman is an adulteress." Isa looked at the woman and then at the priests. He knew that they were more sinful than she. They agreed that she should be killed according to Mosaic Law, and they understood that if he was going to apply Mosaic Law, he would be destroying his own rules of forgiveness and mercy.

Isa understood their plan. He smiled and assented: "Whoever among you is sinless can stone her." His voice rose in the middle of the Temple, making a new law on adultery, for the sinless to judge sin. There was none eligible; no mortal can judge sin, only Allah the Most Merciful.

As Isa left the temple, the woman followed him. She took out a bottle of perfume from her garments, knelt before his feet and washed them with perfume and tears, and then dried his feet with her hair. Isa turned to the woman and told her to stand up, adding: "O Lord, forgive her sins." He let the priests understand that those who call people to Almighty Allah are not executioners. His call was based on mercy for the people, the aim of all divine calls."

Isa continued to pray to Allah for mercy on his people and to teach his people to have mercy on one another and to believe in Allah.

Isa continued his mission, aided by divine miracles. Some Qur'anic commentators said that Isa brought four people back from the dead: a friend of his named Al-Azam, an old woman's son, and a woman's only daughter. These three had died during his lifetime. When the Jews saw this they said: "You only resurrect those who have died recently; perhaps they only fainted." They asked him to bring back to life Sam the Ibn Noah.'

From Surah Al Maidah (The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 5;

The Messengers Will be Asked About Their Nations
Allah states that on the Day of Resurrection, He will ask the Messengers about how their nations, to whom He sent them, answered and responded to their teachings. Allah said in other Ayat,
(Then surely, We shall question those (people) to whom it (the Book) was sent and verily, We shall question the Messengers.) [7:6], and,
(So, by your Lord, We shall certainly call all of them to account. For all that they used to do.) [15:92-93]. The statement of the Messengers here
(We have no knowledge) is the result of the horror of that Day, according to Mujahid, Al-Hasan Al-Basri and As-Suddi. `Abdur-Razzaq narrated that Ath-Thawri said that Al-A`mash said that Mujahid said about the Ayah,
(On the Day when Allah will gather the Messengers together and say to them: "What was the response you received'') They will become afraid and reply,
(We have no knowledge. , ) Ibn Jarir and Ibn Abi Hatim also recorded this explanation. `Ali bin Abi Talhah said that Ibn `Abbas commented on the Ayah,

(On the Day when Allah will gather the Messengers together and say to them: "What was the response you received (from men to your teaching)'' They will say: "We have no knowledge, verily, only You are the Knower of all that is hidden.'') "They will say to the Lord, Most Honored, `We have no knowledge beyond what we know, and even that, You have more knowledge of them than us.'' This response is out of respect before the Lord, Most Honored, and it means, we have no knowledge compared to Your encompassing knowledge. Therefore, our knowledge only grasped the visible behavior of these people, not the secrets of their hearts. You are the Knower of everything, Who has encompassing knowledge of all things, and our knowledge compared to Your knowledge is similar to not having any knowledge at all, for
(only You are the Knower of all that is hidden.)
(110. (Remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O `Isa, son of Maryam! Remember My favor to you and to your mother when I supported you with Ruh - il-Qudus [Jibril] so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you the Book, the Hikmah, the Tawrah and the Injil; and when you made out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you since you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: `This is nothing but evident magic.''') (111. "And when I Awhaytu [put in the hearts of] Al- Hawariyyin to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: `We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims.''')

Reminding `Isa of the Favors that Allah Granted him (Chapter 5, verse 110)

Allah mentions how He blessed His servant and Messenger, `Isa, son of Maryam, and the miracles and extraordinary acts He granted him. Allah said,
(Remember My favor to you) when I created you from your mother, without male intervention, and made you a sign and clear proof of My perfect power over all things.
(And to your mother) when I made you testify to her chastity and you thus absolved her from the sin that the unjust, ignorant liars accused her of,
(when I supported you with Ruh - il-Qudus) the angel Jibril, and made you a Prophet, calling to Allah in the cradle and manhood. I made you speak in the cradle, and you testified that your mother was free from any immoral behavior, and you proclaimed that you worship Me. You also conveyed the news of My Message and invited them to worship Me.
(so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity Meaning you called the people to Allah in childhood and in maturity. And the word Tukallim means invited, because his speaking to people while a child is nothing strange by itself. Allah's statement,

(And when I taught you the Book and the Hikmah,) the power of writing and understanding
(and the Tawrah,) which was revealed to Musa, son of `Imran, who spoke to Allah directly. Allah's statement,
(and when you made out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My permission,) means: `you shaped it in the figure of a bird by My permission, and it became a bird with My permission, after you blew into it'. Then, it became a flying bird with a soul by Allah's permission. Allah said;

(and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My permission,) This was explained before in Surah Al `Imran (chapter 3) and we do not need to repeat it here. Allah's statement,
(And when you brought forth the dead by My permission,) meaning, you called them and they rose from their graves by Allah's leave, power, lntent and will. Allah said next,
(and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you since you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: "This is nothing but evident magic.'') Meaning: `remember My favor, when I stopped the Children of Israel from harming you, when you brought them the clear proofs and evidence, testifying to your prophethood and Message from Me to them. They rejected you and accused you of being a magician and tried to kill you by crucifixion, but I saved you, raised you to Me, purified you from their vulgarity and protected you from their harm.' The wording of this Ayah indicates that `Isa will be reminded of these favors on the Day of Resurrection. Allah used the past tense in these Ayat indicating that it is a forgone matter that will certainly occur. This Ayah also contains some of the secrets of the Unseen that Allah revealed to His Messenger Muhammad . Allah said,
(And when I (Allah) Awhaytu Al-Hawariyyin to believe in Me and My Messenger.) This is also a reminder of Allah's favor on `Isa, by making discples and companions for him. It is also said that Awhaytu in the Ayah means, `inspired', just as in another Ayah, Allah said;
(And We inspired the mother of Musa (saying): Suckle him, ) [28:7]. Allah said in other Ayat,

(And your Lord Awha (inspired) the bee, saying: "Take habitations in the mountains and in the trees and in what they erect. Then, eat of all fruits, and follow the ways of your Lord made easy (for you).'') [16:68-69] Al-Hasan Al-Basri commented about the Hawariyyun, "Allah inspired them'', while As-Suddi said, "`He put in their hearts,'' and the Hawariyyun said,
(We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims.)

(112. (Remember) when Al-Hawariyun said: "O `Isa, son of Maryam! Can your Lord send down to us a Ma'idah from heaven'' `Isa said: "Have Taqwa of Allah, if you are indeed believers.'') (113. They said: "We wish to eat thereof and to be stronger in faith, and to know that you have indeed told us the truth and that we ourselves be its witnesses. '') (114. `Isa, son of Maryam, said: "O Allah, our Lord! Send us from heaven a table spread (with food) that there may be for us -- for the first and the last of us -- a festival and a sign from You; and provide us sustenance, for You are the Best of sustainers.'') (115. Allah said: "I am going to send it down unto you, but if any of you after that disbelieves, then I will punish him with a torment such as I have not inflicted on anyone among the `Alamin.'')

@Davidylan: Please pay attention to the line 7 from the bottom, of the third paragraph from the bottom. The phrase is that Jesus brought them clear proof to show his prophethood. This goes along with the stopping the people from being stoned to death.

@Nwando: You should petition, the dishonest politicians of Nigeria. If it is truly that they fear Allah, they should have applied the Shariah, accrosee the board and not only to the poor and unprotected citizens! As Allah has stated very clearly in His Glorious Qur'an, the hypocrites, in Islam, will be at the bottom in the fire of hell!

However, this should not prevent you from accepting guidance. You should be concern with your own soul.

I see, olabowole dear you did not comment on the Saudi story.

Uche2nna:

Is this one of the " Shoot all the muslim " thread again

silly you.
abeg go eat your left over thanksgiving ram turkey

@Nwando: I am disappointed with the Politicians, Kings, Emirs and Emirates, including Presidents and Prime Ministers of the so called Muslim nations. If they are not helping others to kill and or oppressed their brothers and sisters in Islam, they are doing it themselves or turning loose others to do their dirty jobs!

All my friends and associates, have expressed complete disgust with the way the young Arab woman is being treated. There is no portion of the Qur'an, or the Hadith, that permits or encourage rape or any illegal sexual act, as a virtuous or nonpunishable deed. The surprise is that the coward men, are left standing, and whatever their punishment, is cumulatively pale to the humiliation and direct punishment of this poor woman.

There is no justification for the rape. Even if she was naked and had cat-called them to it. They should have been above the frail and fight the temptation. The same men who perpetrated this heinous crime on this woman, will wish any man dead, if it were their women folk. I do not know how best I can express my unhappiness and sadness. It is very hard for me to even discuss it.

olabowale:

There is no portion of the Qur'an, or the Hadith, that permits or encourage rape or any illegal sexual act, as a virtuous or nonpunishable deed.

Did not mohammed allow his associates to rape women captured as war booty?

olabowale:

There is no justification for the rape. Even if she was naked and had cat-called them to it. They should have been above the frail and fight the temptation. The same men who perpetrated this heinous crime on this woman, will wish any man dead, if it were their women folk. I do not know how best I can express my unhappiness and sadness. It is very hard for me to even discuss it.

Dont waste your time . . . the Saudis were not doing anything outside your sharia law. Was it not the same sentence passed on Amina from Kano? Sentenced to death for having a child outside wedlock until the Italian government rescued her. Where was the man she had sex with all the while? Enjoying himself while chewing gworro. and you are here shedding crocodile tears.

Your sharia law clearly states that a woman needs 4 witnesses to prove rape! Stop being hipocritical . . . muslim dishonesty rankles!

olabowale:

@Nwando: I am disappointed with the Politicians, Kings, Emirs and Emirates, including Presidents and Prime Ministers of the so called Muslim nations.
All my friends and associates, have expressed complete disgust with the way the young Arab woman is being treated. There is no portion of the Qur'an, or the Hadith, that permits or encourage rape or any illegal sexual act, as a virtuous or nonpunishable deed. The surprise is that the coward men, are left standing, and whatever their punishment, is cumulatively pale to the humiliation and direct punishment of this poor woman.

There is no justification for the rape. Even if she was naked and had cat-called them to it. They should have been above the frail and fight the temptation. The same men who perpetrated this heinous crime on this woman, will wish any man dead, if it were their women folk. I do not know how best I can express my unhappiness and sadness. It is very hard for me to even discuss it.

You and your good friends must be equally disgusted at this.



Vol. 5-#459 . Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: "I entered the mosque and saw Abu Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu said, "We went out with Allah's messenger for the Ghazwa (attack upon) Banu Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. [color=#990000][/color]So when we intended to do coitus interruptus we said "How can we do coitus interruptus without asking Allah's messenger while he is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.""



Here, the Muslims attacked the Banu Mustaliq, and took slaves. The female slaves were distributed as booty to the Muslim soldiers. Being away from home, the soldiers became Hot, and want to have sexual relations with the newly captured female slaves. They went to Muhammad and asked about coitus interruptus. He told them not to practice that, but to complete the sexual act with the slaves. Related Hadith show that they didn't want to get the women pregnant because they wanted to be able to sell them later on. Under Islamic law they were not allowed to sell pregnant female slaves.

In effect, Muhammad okayed the rape of female prisoners.

THE RIGHTS OF SLAVES UNDER ISLAM



According to the Hughes Dictionary of Islam, slaves had few civil or legal rights. For example:



a) Muslim men were allowed to have sex anytime with females slaves - Sura 4:3, 4:29, 33:49.

b) Slaves are as helpless before their masters as idols are before God - Sura 16:77



c) According to Islamic Tradition, people at the time of their capture were either to be killed, or enslaved. Shows you that they were at the bottom of the barrel to start with.



d) According to Islamic jurisprudence, slaves were merchandise. The sales of slaves was in accordance with the sale of animals.



e) Muhammad ordered that some slaves who were freed by their master be RE-ENSLAVED!



f) It is permissible under Islamic law to whip slaves.



g) According to Islam, a Muslim could not be put to death for murdering a slave. Ref. 2:178 and the Jalalayn confirm this.



h) According to Islam, the testimony of slaves is not admissible in court. Ibn Timiyya and Bukhari state this.



i) According to Islamic jurisprudence, slaves cannot choose their own marriage mate. - Ibn Hazm, vol. 6, part 9.



j) According to Islamic jurisprudence, slaves can be forced to marry who their masters want. - Malik ibn Anas, vol. 2, page 155.

and many today still follow mohammeds footsteps.

[b]One escaped Mauritanian woman slave (pictured) said: "I was tied up all night and all day. They only untied me so I could do my chores. In the end I could barely move my limbs. All those years, and I don't even own a goat. They raped me often. At night, when everyone was asleep, they came for me and I couldn't stop them. If I had been free I would never have let this happen to me. My master is the father of my first child, my master's son is the father of my second child and my baby girl's father was my master's nephew."

The notion of a Muslim man being sanctioned by the Koran to rape his female slaves still has echoes in the way guest-workers are treated in Saudi Arabia. Though beyond the scope of this article, I urge you to read the harrowing account by a Filipino woman I know, who became a virtual slave to her Saudi employer, an imam who repeatedly raped her. Similarly, the trade in young children, abducted or bought in Pakistan and Bangladesh, who became camel-jockeys in the United Arab Emirates, is an example of modern Muslim slavery.[/b]
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/003671.html

I hope Olabowale is still expressing his "disgust".

@Davidylan; I hope you know the difference between true Islam and whatever a people think it is. Just because Makka and Madina, are the two cities associated with Islam of the last Mesenger, Muhammad ibn Abdullah (as), is not an indicator, that all people from these two cities carry great belief.

I am very familiar with Mauritania. I have many friends from that country who are very political and vocal about the injustices of the leadership and people in authority, oppressing, in various degrees, those who are weak, and under their control. All of these are injustices and True Islam of Muhammad opposes all kind of unjusts.

I can not broad stroke Christianity of today or of the past with the evil behaviour of individuals, groups or nations, claiming Christianity. Instaed, I will look at your Book and the individual that christians claim to follow, with that I will determine if that a good Christian entity.

The same should apply to Muslims. The Qur'an gave injuctions about fair dealing and justice towards one another. Muhammad (as), is the leading example for the muslims. How good a Muslim is should be determined by these two standard bearers.

How about when the "good example "raped slave girls?
as in the hadiths and koran verses.

Muslim men were allowed to have sex anytime with females slaves - 4:29, 33:49.

isn't it time for a better example?

4.24] And (forbidden to you) are married women, except those whom your right hand owns. Such Allah has written for you. Lawful to you beyond all that, is that you can seek using your wealth in marriage and not fornication. So whatever you have enjoyed from them give them their obligated wage. And there is no fault in you in what ever you mutually agree after the obligation. Allah is the Knower, the Wise.

right hand posesses refers to captured slave girls or women

Here in black and white allah says mohammed can have sex aka rape slave girls.
This is the noble Koran, people,not nwando's words.


33:50 O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

so olabowole to be like Mohammed is to violate captured girls.
Don't follow his footsteps my dear.
He was a bad fellow

olabowale:

@Davidylan; I hope you know the difference between true Islam and whatever a people think it is. Just because Makka and Madina, are the two cities associated with Islam of the last Mesenger, Muhammad ibn Abdullah (as), is not an indicator, that all people from these two cities carry great belief.

Where really is "true islam" ever practiced? We mention Saudi Arabia they tell us it is not an expression of true islam! Sudan, Kano, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon . . . where is this "true islam" practiced? Western countries where laws that respect human rights prevent muslims from carrying out their barbaric stonings?

olabowale:

I can not broad stroke Christianity of today or of the past with the evil behaviour of individuals, groups or nations, claiming Christianity. Instaed, I will look at your Book and the individual that christians claim to follow, with that I will determine if that a good Christian entity.

How many times have you hypocrite mentioned the crusades? how many times have you struggled desperately to tar us with the brush of catholicism? Now you claim to be looking at the book!

olabowale:

The same should apply to Muslims. The Qur'an gave injuctions about fair dealing and justice towards one another. Muhammad (as), is the leading example for the muslims. How good a Muslim is should be determined by these two standard bearers.

Nwando referenced mohammed's very example where he encouraged his followers to rape slave women . . . where then did you see your own "justice"?

IMO, Xtianity allows free debate on almost all issues. The Bible even asks us to put all preaching to the test to see if they conform to God's written words hence any one claiming to be a prophet or pastor etc must have his preaching regularly checked by his congregation and other believers.
I do not know that Islam encourages that hence the rigidity over the years and their children converting easily to Xtianity.
The only problem in Europe and America that reduces conversion of Middle East & Asian muslims, apart from the coercion of their families, is the perceived lopsided support of the whites for Israel in its persecution of Palestinians.