What difference is there between the so-called slave masters and you if you for whatever reason want to take away a person's freedom (of religion)?

You and the slave masters are the same thing.

Both want to restrict options and choices in life, force people to conform to your views.

ekt_bear: What difference is there between the so-called slave masters and you if you for whatever reason want to take away a person's freedom (of religion)?

You and the slave masters are the same thing.

Both want to restrict options and choices in life, force people to conform to your views.

Where did I say that I want to take away someone's religion?

Spreading information about christian slavery does not mean that I am forcing you out of christianity.

Freedom of religion- you have every right to practise what religion you want
Freedom of speech- I have every right to criticise the evil that your religion has done.

It seems our people got drunk/fat, began to misbehave, and then forgot Eledumare's own name; Olodumare, Eledumare, Olorun, and Eleda are titles/epithets. Let us seek to know and confess HIS name before trying to point fingers at the oyinbo/Amorites.

Good. So you agree that people should be able to practice religion freely.

Regarding "evil."

Are you claiming that Christianity is uniquely evil, more evil than other religions? If so...then you'll have to back this up with facts.

If you don't know something, its better to ask instead of making silly posts. Eledumare is one of the many yoruba names for god. That is the name we still call him.

The pagan idiots on this thread who are mostly non yoruba are the ones making dumb comments about what they don't know.

Please learn more yoruba before starting threads like this.

kodewrita: If you don't know something, its better to ask instead of making silly posts. Eledumare is one of the many yoruba names for god. That is the name we still call him.

The pagan idiots on this thread who are mostly non yoruba are the ones making dumb comments about what they don't know.

Please learn more yoruba before starting threads like this.

shut up. Olodumare is only the Supreme Force. The Creator God. There are many more lesser Gods. . you were born yesterday so just shut up.

ekt_bear: Good. So you agree that people should be able to practice religion freely.

Regarding "evil."

Are you claiming that Christianity is uniquely evil, more evil than other religions? If so...then you'll have to back this up with facts.

Many religions have evil in them. Christianity is not unique.


However, christianity is the most evil if we go by body count of murdered people or the number of crimes committed in Jesus' name. Slavery, pedophilia, molestation, holy wars, torture, genocide, racism, support of Nazism, sexism, rape, bigotry etc

An interesting hypothesis, I'm sure.

But when I said support your statement with facts, I meant substance.

If you are claiming body count, then surely it won't be hard to provide an actual number. Data. Something quantitative.

Heh.

@post
So what do you expect? They colonized us. We speak thier language we eat thier food they bought civilization to us so its only natural for them to force thier christian beliefs onto us

manmustwac: @post
So what do you expect? They colonized us. We speak thier language we eat thier food they bought civilization to us so its only natural for them to force thier christian beliefs onto us

eat their food have you lost your mind they ate OUR food!

logicboy:

Many religions have evil in them. Christianity is not unique.


However, christianity is the most evil if we go by body count of murdered people or the number of crimes committed in Jesus' name. Slavery, pedophilia, molestation, holy wars, torture, genocide, racism, support of Nazism, sexism, rape, bigotry etc

only monotheistic abrahamism is the true evil. .

shymmex: ^^^Even the Brazilians had to create SANTERIA (combination of Yoruba gods and Christianity) for their own God to answer their prayers...
I'm just trying to get a reasonable discourse - please, civility is important.

Very respectfully.
Santeria has no origin in Brazil, but in Cuba.
In Brazil there are different religions of African origin:
Candomble of Angola, Candomblé Nago, Batuque Sango of Recife, Umbanda and many others.
Of these, the only one who can say that it is syncretic Umbanda.
Excellent thread!

My respects.

Avicenna: African people simply abandoned their Gods (eledumare) because it was inferior to the foreign concept of God.

I do not think Eledumaré is below or above ... I think that that's a big mistake. That story was sold the settlers, and was happily purchased by Africans for hundreds of years ...
I believe that a god is less when it dies or is killed by mere mortals. Is not the case Eledumaré.
My respects.

wirinet: Eledumare was unable to protect them.

It was a war of gods?. I really do not understand your reasoning.
The Judeo-Christian God and Allah can protect Africa from the millions of starving children? The AIDS? ...
"They took the wealth and left the Bible and the Koran"
My respects.

amor4ce: It seems our people got drunk/fat, began to misbehave, and then forgot Eledumare's own name; Olodumare, Eledumare, Olorun, and Eleda are titles/epithets. Let us seek to know and confess HIS name before trying to point fingers at the oyinbo/Amorites.

Each of these names describes a characteristic of that god.
Olorun (Lord of Orun, sky) and so on.
The term "Eleda" as far as I know, is something else. Not a Yoruba god's name.
A respectful greeting.

Ptolomeus:
Each of these names describes a characteristic of that god.
Olorun (Lord of Orun, sky) and so on.
The term "Eleda" as far as I know, is something else. Not a Yoruba god's name.
A respectful greeting.

Eleda means my creator, my maker = God.
It could also be use to refer to a Yoruba God, depending on who you're speaking to.

I hope nobody is offended by this comment.
I do not think the Yoruba religion is monotheistic.
As far as I learned, Olodumare is the only god and creator.
There Orisa, which are emanations of the one God and Creator, but have no degree of god.
Orisa There are also "fun fun", which are related to creation.
But this is not polytheism.
A respectful greeting to all.

Ptolomeus: I hope nobody is offended by this comment.
I do not think the Yoruba religion is monotheistic.
As far as I learned, Olodumare is the only god and creator.
There Orisa, which are emanations of the one God and Creator, but have no degree of god.
Orisa There are also "fun fun", which are related to creation.
But this is not polytheism.
A respectful greeting to all.

you just contradicted yourself.


anyways, Yoruba Religion is 100% Polytheistic. I now it for a FACT. all these people like amor4ace are trying to make it sound monotheistic because they think they are descended from israel. next they will start to say that Olodumare sent down a son from the skies and he is a saviour. you know whats next. .

I ask a thousand pardons. It was a translation error.
Actually, I think effectively in Yoruba religion there is only one creator god, what makes monotheistic. Orisa was considered God (gods) when the first missionaries came to Africa.
The Yoruba god has no cult or ceremony (not directly offering Olorún). This situation and the fact that offerings and other ceremonies were given for the different Orisa led the missionaries to consider that it was polytheism (errors as thick as Eshu regarded as the Christian devil).
Regarding the link of the Yoruba religion with Judaism, as honestly I say that I know of no precedent that certifies that contention. I hope the translator did not betray me,
so I repeat, I do not know any link between Yoruba traditional religion and Judaism.
Dear Friend: I feel a great respect for you, and if I may, affection. Respectfully disagree that the base as polytheistic or monotheistic is a very minor. And that does not change my deep respect for you. I am not the owner of the truth, just commented that I studied and learned, but my opinion is far more valid than yours.
I send warm greetings to my friend Hausa!

*Ileke-IdI:

Eleda means my creator, my maker = God.
It could also be use to refer to a Yoruba God, depending on who you're speaking to.

You are referring to Ori? Ori = destination?
Ori is indeed considered Orisa.
In all honesty, I do not know a Orisa with that name (Eleda).
Please understand you I'm not denying what you say)
Could you expand on the subject?
Thank you very much for the input!
A hug!

Ptolomeus: I ask a thousand pardons. It was a translation error.
Actually, I think effectively in Yoruba religion there is only one creator god, what makes monotheistic. Orisa was considered God (gods) when the first missionaries came to Africa.
The Yoruba god has no cult or ceremony (not directly offering Olorún). This situation and the fact that offerings and other ceremonies were given for the different Orisa led the missionaries to consider that it was polytheism (errors as thick as Eshu regarded as the Christian devil).
Regarding the link of the Yoruba religion with Judaism, as honestly I say that I know of no precedent that certifies that contention. I hope the translator did not betray me,
so I repeat, I do not know any link between Yoruba traditional religion and Judaism.
Dear Friend: I feel a great respect for you, and if I may, affection. Respectfully disagree that the base as polytheistic or monotheistic is a very minor. And that does not change my deep respect for you. I am not the owner of the truth, just commented that I studied and learned, but my opinion is far more valid than yours.
I send warm greetings to my friend Hausa!

No friend you see, you are talking only about the Creator God Olodumare. there are other lesser Gods too, such as Shango , Orunmila, etc. which represent different forces. .

PAGAN 9JA:



No friend you see, you are talking only about the Creator God Olodumare. there are other lesser Gods too, such as Shango , Orunmila, etc. which represent different forces. .

The difference we are taking you and me is the concept.
I believe that Orisa is Olorún emanation, but are not gods, but guiding the universal balance (Oya, Ogun, Sango, Oba, Ossayin, Osun, etc). Well, it's a question of concept I think it does not make big differences.

Ptolomeus:
The difference we are taking you and me is the concept.
I believe that Orisa is Olorún emanation, but are not gods, but guiding the universal balance (Oya, Ogun, Sango, Oba, Ossayin, Osun, etc). Well, it's a question of concept I think it does not make big differences.

yes its a concept. i get your drift. you consider the other deities as manifestations of the Supreme Creator.

PAGAN 9JA:


yes its a concept. i get your drift. you consider the other deities as manifestations of the Supreme Creator.

As Orisá part of Olorún , is logical your analysis ...

But ... where are the other friends?
No opinion on this beautiful theme?
It would be interesting to hear views and comments on these issues!
Come on!

manmustwac: @post
So what do you expect? They colonized us. We speak thier language we eat thier food they bought civilization to us so its only natural for them to force thier christian beliefs onto us

The brought civilization? We ate their food?


Spoken like a true slave.


Can you explain how slavery is civilized or how colonialism is civilised.

MY PEOPLE WILL DIE BEFORE THEY ACCEPT SOMEONE ELSE FOOD!

Ptolomeus:
I do not think Eledumaré is below or above ... I think that that's a big mistake. That story was sold the settlers, and was happily purchased by Africans for hundreds of years ...
I believe that a god is less when it dies or is killed by mere mortals. Is not the case Eledumaré.
My respects.

No,no, Ptolomeus, you did not get what I meant. Eledumare is same as God but with many sub-gods(osha) working for him. These eledumare-representatives(osha) require human sacrifice( most)and when crossed,never forgives., Compare that to christian/islamic god whom are omnibenevolent.
It was a matter of choosing between two evils, they went for the lesser evil. Mind you, not eledumare but his representatives.(Sango,obatala,ogun).
In short the reasons- they were conquered. It is either accept or die(islam)/ostracised(christianity).
I think I still remain a victim of that brainwashing. The stories they colonizers sold us I mean. You know in my school library, the go-to book on IFA divinity was written by a british! You can no longer distinguish between what's true and what they want you to know.
In conclusion,The missionaries brought a CONCEPT of God that natives felt comfortable with than their sango,obatala and others. Let's say they brought the greek pantheon(zeus,hades), it won't have as much effect. They are basically same.

Ptolomeus:
It was a war of gods?. I really do not understand your reasoning.
The Judeo-Christian God and Allah can protect Africa from the millions of starving children? The AIDS? ...
"They took the wealth and left the Bible and the Koran"
My respects.

A war between different people is also regarded as a war between their Gods, since the gods are expected to aid and help its worshipers defeat the enemy. In the bible and the Koran most of the victories is attributed to the gods. The conquered people are made to believe that their gods are inferior to the conquerers gods. You can see this phenomenon with all conquered people, the Aztecs, Mayans, and other south American people had to abandon their gods and adopt Spanish gods.

Wars are usually fought for exploitative purposes but the winner will exploit both the mind and materials of the conquered people.

logicboy:


The brought civilization? We ate their food?


Spoken like a true slave.


Can you explain how slavery is civilized or how colonialism is civilised.

Dear friend.
There is a concept that we should consider.
I do not think the Aztecs, Mayas, Incas and Africans were uncivilized. I want to put too much emphasis on that.
The invader justified his crimes, cataloging of animals and some pagan, peoples who had even a civilization much more advanced than Europe.
Have a great development war does not mean being more civilized.
I think that the people cited were by no means uncivilized.
Military supremacy has nothing to do with civilization.
I'm not asking you to share my opinion, but traditional African religions and American argued for hundreds of years the ecology ... The first world recently began to understand some things ... but still creating machines of mass destruction. ..
Who is civilized?
Civilization is an example of the Inquisition? Enslave whole nations?
I think (very respectfully) that the Chinese story of Europeans in Africa has been believed until now.
With affect always, your friend.

Avicenna:
No,no, Ptolomeus, you did not get what I meant. Eledumare is same as God but with many sub-gods(osha) working for him. These eledumare-representatives(osha) require human sacrifice( most)and when crossed,never forgives., Compare that to christian/islamic god whom are omnibenevolent.
It was a matter of choosing between two evils, they went for the lesser evil. Mind you, not eledumare but his representatives.(Sango,obatala,ogun).
In short the reasons- they were conquered. It is either accept or die(islam)/ostracised(christianity).
I think I still remain a victim of that brainwashing. The stories they colonizers sold us I mean. You know in my school library, the go-to book on IFA divinity was written by a british! You can no longer distinguish between what's true and what they want you to know.
In conclusion,The missionaries brought a CONCEPT of God that natives felt comfortable with than their sango,obatala and others. Let's say they brought the greek pantheon(zeus,hades), it won't have as much effect. They are basically same.

Dear friend:
1. It is logical that there are studies by the British. I already mentioned that the first studies on African traditions and religions were made by English missionaries ( sided, and superficial studes). That does not speak well for the British (who also wrongly interpreted almost everything) but bad for Africans.
2. I respectfully beg to differ with you about human sacrifice. If we talk historically in Africa may be conducted human sacrifices for religious purposes.
That's not the actual reality.
But do not forget that the Judeo-Christian god was ordered to undertake human sacrifices (sometimes children).
It is estimated that a Jewish sect made ​​even today.
So ... we chose the lesser evil? That will cost African slavery for hundreds of years and met the greatest genocide in human history (I have the numbers and statistics per capita)
That was choosing the lesser evil?
Well ... I do not want to induce anyone to change their thinking, just that things are not imposed as the Europeans.
You have done an excellent pose. I think it's a great collaboration ... From the discussion comes the light!
I send warm greetings!

Ptolomeus:
You are referring to Ori? Ori = destination?
Ori is indeed considered Orisa.
In all honesty, I do not know a Orisa with that name (Eleda).
Please understand you I'm not denying what you say)
Could you expand on the subject?
Thank you very much for the input!
A hug!

Ori and eleda are used interchangeably

wirinet:

A war between different people is also regarded as a war between their Gods, since the gods are expected to aid and help its worshipers defeat the enemy. In the bible and the Koran most of the victories is attributed to the gods. The conquered people are made to believe that their gods are inferior to the conquerers gods. You can see this phenomenon with all conquered people, the Aztecs, Mayans, and other south American people had to abandon their gods and adopt Spanish gods.

Wars are usually fought for exploitative purposes but the winner will exploit both the mind and materials of the conquered people.

Dear friend:
The Jewish-Christian God saw how his people were enslaved, beaten and even tortured thousands of times. I do not think it means to be a weak god. The weak are men.
We can pretend that a super developed nation is conquered by the warlike god or gods of a people almost unarmed?
With spears and arrows can defeat the guns? That would be naive and do not think a god is superior to another.
You say that "In the Bible and the Koran, most of the victories are attributed to the gods" ... It also attributed the defeats like Iraq? The hundreds of humiliation they are subjected to the Islamists the part of USA? Is attributed to the Judeo-Christian god what occurred with the Nazis?
I totally agree with you that history is written by the victors, the victors imposed their gods, their traditions and their language until the vanquished ... but that is because it is better ...
Europeans invaded Africa and America for economic purposes, and tried to justify speaking of "civilization" ... How ironic ... civilized, killing and enslaving ...
We imposed that story ... "who does not accept die" ...
But today we continue believing ... is unacceptable!
! of respect to the ancestors, and our own identity.
His speech was excellent my friend!
Let us exchange views.
The thread is excellent and beautiful level of respect!
Thank you!
A friendly greeting!

PAGAN 9JA:



you just contradicted yourself.


anyways, Yoruba Religion is 100% Polytheistic. I now it for a FACT. all these people like amor4ace are trying to make it sound monotheistic because they think they are descended from israel. next they will start to say that Olodumare sent down a son from the skies and he is a saviour. you know whats next. .

Sorry, Igbos are the ones that believe they're the sons of Israel. Yorubas were here when the Israelis were there. we were just not called "Yoruba" or "Nagos" then.

Oduduwa was the one sent from heaven Every tradition has its own myth. You have the Greeks with their gods/goddesses.