*All the definitions I will be using to express this topic is not of my own but ones that I gathered from some Nigerian Christians according to their interpretation and understanding of dreams in relation to their faith.*

Since there is a general knowledge of the “immaculate conception” I’ll first expand on what I hoped to convey by illustrating what is considered (by some people) to be a relationship between the "spirit realm" and dreams.
Dreams are considered as an extension of our reality but operating in the spirit, according to some people. For the sake of this topic I will abide by this definition.

Amongst Nigerian Christians I’ve heard terms such as “spirit husbands” and “spirit wives” – indicating a s[i]e[/i]xu[i]a[/i]l partner in a dream. To some this is considered detrimental and demonic as it may interfere or haunt future/current matrimonial homes and one’s spiritual life.
If a pregnancy or child occurred in the dream, the proclaimed "spiritual spouse" is most likely responsible for the conception. This is said to be bad news.

I illustrated all this because of what the “immaculate conception” entailed.

I know that the two circumstances are different but I found it interesting to discuss the details surrounding the "virgin birth" in relation to a pairing in the “sprit realm” aka dream.

A spirit or more specifically the Holy Spirit was said to be responsible for “Virgin” Mary’s pregnancy and it was thus seen as a miracle.

In the dream - some accord this dimension a spiritual status - when the protagonist impregnates or becomes pregnant with what is termed as a “spiritual spouse” that is seen as a bondage according to some Christian circles.

Not all spirits are of the same nature but in terms of a species (for lack of a better word) they belong in the same category.
So I find it interesting whilst "Virgin" Mary’s pregnancy in itself is accorded much special status partly due to who was responsible for her pregnancy yet in another context when a pregnancy occurs by means of a spiritual associate in a dream it is seen as a vice.

[Q]: Why are there supposed consequences for having conceived with a "spirit" character given the background of "Virgin" Mary’s pregnancy?

This is the main 'problem' with the topic:

emöfine2: *All the definitions I will be using to express this topic is not of my own but ones that I gathered from some Nigerian Christians according to their interpretation and understanding of dreams in relation to their faith.*

It is tough to compare/contrast, draw similarities or differences on 'doctrines' that cannot be biblically backed-up.

I suppose there was always that danger of concentrating on a specific group of a particular demographic thereby making them appear bigger than they're actually are because they’re under focus. I wouldn’t even call it doctrine but a viewpoint regarding certain spiritual matters and I actually think it stems from their traditional backgrounds moreso than the bible. They just happened to be Christians so their views concerning the spiritual world may be combined with certain elements of their faith.

You want to compare the reality of Jesus to your hapless dream?

Are you trying to be funny or combative? Have I ever discussed details of my dreams with you? Bearing false witness eh?

No I am not comparing the “reality of Jesus” with my alleged “hapless dream”. I was comparing the nature of the alleged “immaculate conception” to the resultant of the conception caused by the coupling of what some Christians term as a “spiritual husband/wives” which may occur in the dream which is considered as part of the spiritual realm by some Christians.

Hello dear friend!
It is a joy to greet you.
I have said in several threads, which causes me to my repugnance the fact imagine having se.x with a ghost. Possibly to Christianity, the fact of engaging se.x with god, is a wonderful thing, but I think it's something unclean.
I ask, what woman would be willing to have se.x with a ghost?
I understand that Christianity is a spirit religion (worships the spirit of a dead or more dead), but anyway, who has imagined se.x between a human and a dead (or spirit) was to have serious psychiatric problems .
Just a thought: Christians despise spiritist religions ... but forget that they too are ... even their gods have se.x with spirits ...

you are assuming that christians are rational people. anyone who believes a holy spirit impregnates a woman is a highly irrational person. you will find most christians fall in this category. the virgin mary story is piggybacked of the ancient babylonian empire. nimrod, semiramis and tammuz. nimrod the king died and shortly afterwards the queen semiramis got pregnant. and for fear of being labelled a LovePeddler, which is a grave crime in ancient days, she cooked up the immaculate conception story. she had a child named tammuz. christianity, the religion, is built on the foundation of the ancient babylonian empire. jesus is tammuz, and mary is semiramis. dec 25th, the birthday of jesus is nimrods birthday. the point to this whole rant is that i wouldnt attach much gravity to the opinions of christians with regards to vilifying immaculate conceptions in dreams but lauding marys immaculate conception. there is no such thing as immaculate conception.

buzugee: you are assuming that christians are rational people. anyone who believes a holy spirit impregnates a woman is a highly irrational person. you will find most christians fall in this category. the virgin mary story is piggybacked of the ancient babylonian empire. nimrod, semiramis and tammuz. nimrod the king died and shortly afterwards the queen semiramis got pregnant. and for fear of being labelled a LovePeddler, which is a grave crime in ancient days, she cooked up the immaculate conception story. she had a child named tammuz. christianity, the religion, is built on the foundation of the ancient babylonian empire. jesus is tammuz, and mary is semiramis. dec 25th, the birthday of jesus is nimrods birthday. the point to this whole rant is that i wouldnt attach much gravity to the opinions of christians with regards to vilifying immaculate conceptions in dreams but lauding marys immaculate conception. there is no such thing as immaculate conception.

My sincere congratulations, your post is great.
Many Christian traditions are mere copies of pagan cults. It is quite right what you say about the birth date of Jesus. It is impossible to have been in December.
Even the Pope's clothes have pagan connotations.
A hug dear friend!

Ptolomeus:
My sincere congratulations, your post is great.
Many Christian traditions are mere copies of pagan cults. Itjavascript:void(0); is quite right what you say about the birth date of Jesus. It is impossible to have been in December.
Even the Pope's clothes have pagan connotations.
A hug dear friend!

a hug right back at ya mi amigos Ptolomeus

emöfine2: Are you trying to be funny or combative? Have I ever discussed details of my dreams with you? Bearing false witness eh?

No I am not comparing the “reality of Jesus” with my alleged “hapless dream”. I was comparing the nature of the alleged “immaculate conception” to the resultant of the conception caused by the coupling of what some Christians term as a “spiritual husband/wives” which may occur in the dream which is considered as part of the spiritual realm by some Christians.

eyah, your conscience pricked you. your dreams are hapless, confirmed. You can't and shouldn't compare the real and historical Jesus birth to castle in the air fantasies about been pregnant. wake up

Hola Ptolomeus
Hope all is well.

Ptolomeus, according to Christians and the Bible the Holy Spirit apparently didn’t h[i]a[/i]v[i]e[/i] s[i]e[/i]x with “Virgin” Mary. The story of the “virgin birth” is often hailed as the “immaculate conception” because miraculously (without the use of sex allegedly) the Holy Spirit managed to get a "virgin" pregnant.

Christians despise spiritist religions ... but forget that they too are

You have a point there but I think the supernatural in all belief systems is clipped to spirits/immateriality but it's somehow demonic when those spirits appear in other belief systems.

@Buzugee Hmmm interesting but I’m gonna have to research all that for myself.

there is no such thing as immaculate conception

To me it's also a contradiction but I believe the term “immaculate conception” was used to highlight that an alleged virgin was with child - which kinda reveals how sex is regarded by some because the term "immaculate conception" kinda makes it seem that conceiving through the natural way is actually considered unclean.
In addition, we all apparently inherited our "sinful nature" due to Adam’s fall but Jesus wasn’t born in sin...is it because he wasn’t conceived via “sex”? Is sex thus how this supposed "sin nature" is translated into our being? If so what of IVF children etc?....the difference between Jesus and “test tube babies” is that according to the bible no man was responsible for his birth...thus is this alleged "sin nature" passed on through the male marker? *just thinking out loud and there may be plenty holes in my statement*

Image123:
eyah, your conscience pricked you. your dreams are hapless, confirmed. You can't and shouldn't compare the real and historical Jesus birth to castle in the air fantasies about been pregnant. wake up

In this same manner is this how you deceive yourself about the authenticity of your faith?

knock yourself out gurl. let me give you a head start. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Hebrew_Roots/Neglected_Commandments/Idolatry/Easter

emöfine2:

In this same manner is this how you deceive yourself about the authenticity of your faith?

keep deceiving yourself, you have the right.

I have the right to assert the undeniable fact that I have more legitimacy over you as to what activities occurs in my own dream and that your fabricated tales about my being based on bruised emotions and impersonal anecdotes is not the truth of my reality. Makes one wonder how you arrived to the so called “truth” of your faith since you seem to invent your own truths desperately seeking for evidence to counter others. I can safely surmise that the "spirit of truth" seems not to be dwelling in you.

emöfine2: Hola Ptolomeus
Hope all is well.

Ptolomeus, according to Christians and the Bible the Holy Spirit apparently didn’t h[i]a[/i]v[i]e[/i] s[i]e[/i]x with “Virgin” Mary. The story of the “virgin birth” is often hailed as the “immaculate conception” because miraculously (without the use of sex allegedly) the Holy Spirit managed to get a "virgin" pregnant.



You have a point there but I think the supernatural in all belief systems is clipped to spirits/immateriality but it's somehow demonic when those spirits appear in other belief systems.

Dear friend, is beautiful to talk to you.
That is the line of reasoning to which I want to reach.
1. Thinking about relationships with a spirit (or supernatural) is disgusting.
2. A pregnancy without sex (sorry you know I mentioned some terms that may seem hard, but I want to be graphic) without sperm, without ovule ... "by simple decree" is absolutely irrational.
Many times we hear that "everything is a matter of faith," and empower such situations that absolutely nothing should be logical.
It's Kafkaesque ... (Franz Kafka)
If we accept that a woman is pregnant (self-pregnant), we already ruled out any analysis of the biblical facts.
The many biblical contradictions cease to be, and everything must be accepted by logic or faith ...
When logic and rationality fails, aim for the faith.
But faith does not mean irrationality.
That way, any doctrine or belief, however irrational it is, happens to be credible.
"A lie repeated a thousand times becomes the truth"!
Hermann Goering

With respect to spiritism.
I understand that some sects, hide their own lack of doctrine, with the attack on other faiths.
But they, in their minds to discredit others, end up discrediting.
They despise spiritualism, they considered primitive, but worship saints ...
What is a saint?
The question answers itself.

Please accept my respectful greetings and very affectionate!

Hi Ptolomeus I really appreciate your response and well wishes

Ptolomeus: When logic and rationality fails, aim for the faith.
But faith does not mean irrationality.
That way, any doctrine or belief, however irrational it is, happens to be credible.

Exactly Ptolomeus.

With respect to spiritism.
I understand that some sects, hide their own lack of doctrine, with the attack on other faiths.
But they, in their minds to discredit others, end up discrediting.
They despise spiritualism, they considered primitive, but worship saints ...
What is a saint?
The question answers itself.

Yes you are right. Once I went to an orthodox church and they were paying obeisance to saints. Now if an animist was to pay their respects in their own traditional way to their own blood ancestors that would somehow qualify as "devilish", "primitive" etc you name it.

emöfine2: I have the right to assert the undeniable fact that I have more legitimacy over you as to what activities occurs in my own dream and that your fabricated tales about my being based on bruised emotions and impersonal anecdotes is not the truth of my reality. Makes one wonder how you arrived to the so called “truth” of your faith since you seem to invent your own truths desperately seeking for evidence to counter others. I can safely surmise that the "spirit of truth" seems not to be dwelling in you.

those fantasies are getting to you, watch.

@ emofine2,

While I have little interest in this directionless (in my opinion) topic, I just want to correct something.

The Immaculate Conception has nothing little to do with Jesus' conception in Mary's womb. Its about Mary's conception in her mother's womb.

Some of you are so eager to get on nairaland and spew trash on when you should just listen and learn.

Yes you are indeed right concerning the true background of the “immaculate conception”...I even viewed the painting recently and read the accompanying description yet still confused the "virgin birth" with that of the “immaculate conception”.
So in the whole time of me posting on this thread when I refer to the “immaculate conception” I thus mean the “virgin birth”. Pardon me for the mix up.

Some of you are so eager to get on nairaland and spew trash on when you should just listen and learn.

It goes both ways.

italo: @ emofine2,

While I have little interest in this directionless (in my opinion) topic, I just want to correct something.

The Immaculate Conception has nothing little to do with Jesus' conception in Mary's womb. Its about Mary's conception in her mother's womb.

Some of you are so eager to get on nairaland and spew trash on when you should just listen and learn.

Right.
The "immaculate conception" is an exclusive statement of Catholicism, which states unilaterally that Mary was born free of original sin.
That does not provide absolutely no data on virginity or not virginity of Mary before her pregnancy, nor on their other children, much less on how that Mary is pregnant.
My education did not allow me to be rude, especially when participating in the thread people I appreciate both, but ...
In the words of Italo, then surely Mary remained virgin birth ... Forgive me the sarcasm, but following his reasoning, we can assume that Mary gave birth to Jesus by the ear right?
Know apologize, but the irrationality makes me ironic.
My respects.

The immaculate conception pre-dates christianity.Mithra is a god who was born from a virgin.So the birth of Jesus is nothing but cut and paste from Mithrasim.