1. Atheism is supposed to be the lack of a belief in deity (God) rather it is the convenient denial of God so as to go against conscience commit as many crimes one can get away with.

2. Atheism has no moral code or guidelines i.e. does not define good and evil hence serial rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, fraudsters are all justified as atheists.

3. The world's most hideous mass murderers were atheists namely Hitler and Stalin

4. For a group of people who don't believe in God, they go a long way to try and force this non-belief on others who don't share it and will even resort to name-calling and violence in some cases. It seems to me that they do this so as to constantly convince themselves that there is no God even though their consciences and their souls protest (heck they even deny the soul)

5. Atheists will always misuse science by quoting so called "scientific facts" as if they were some infallible creed (deliberately forgetting that fallibility is in fact the nature of science)

6. Atheists simply do not have any morals and they are quite comfortable attacking those with morals by calling them intolerant brainwashed fanatic bigots because it gives them some sort of a superiority complex.

7. Though they often claim to be logical, they mostly fail to provide logical arguments rather they resort to over-simplistic lines, quoting theists out of context and plain old mockery.



8. My question to Atheists; Justify your belief. Can you prove to me with 100% certainty that there is no God?





This is in response to similar posts by logicboy and other militant evangelist atheists on Nairaland.

A question. What has believing in the bible god got to do with human conscience?

Question 2. Is it going against the conscience to believe and woship an evil being like the bible god after having read his genocidal exploits on the pages his own "word", the bible?

Question 3. Is it against the conscience to call such a wicked deity "loving" and to love him?

Notice, I purposely didn't mention God of the bible. Have you ever wondered where your conscience came from?

As for question 2. If I made a hundred teacups and broke them all, does that make me evil?

If you agree that you were created would it not be against your conscience to despise your creator? Doesn't your denial of your creator come because you simply don't want to obey his rules? Wouldn't it be convenient for your chosen course?

Note that most atheists (at least the ones on this forum) come from established religions like christianity, so you cannot leave this fact out. When you say "GOD", which one are you referring to, then?

I have never thought it necessary to know where my conscience comes from. I just know it is there and i respect it, very much. Which is why i left religion in the first place.

It means you are nuts if you do that, bro, not evil. But what exactly does this question got to do with the bible god? Are you comparing human beings with tea cups? Is it not against your conscience to compare humans with tea cups?

Mr_Anony: Notice, I purposely didn't mention God of the bible. Have you ever wondered where your conscience come from?
As for question 2. If I made a hundred teacups and broke them all, does that make me evil?

And why do you have to believe in a deity to have a conscience? That, i don't get. Explain the mechanism of that first. I know a lot of atheists who have serious conscience without having to believe in any deity. And, at the same time, i know a lot of believers of some deity or the other whose actions or deeds and thought processes show that they have absolutely no conscience whatsoever.

jagunlabi: And why do you have to believe in a deity to have a conscience? That, i don't get. Explain the mechanism of that first. I know a lot of atheists who have serious conscience without having to believe in any deity. And, at the same time, i know a lot of believers of some deity or the other whose actions or deeds and thought processes show that they have absolutely no conscience whatsoever.

I believe that man's conscience is God's law within us by which we are judged and can judge good and evil. It is because I can relate my conscience to pleasing/displeasing God that I do good and keep away from evil. If I say that God does not exist, then there will be no need to adhere to my conscience since I can't possibly displease someone who doesn't exist. All I am left with is whatever makes me happy and whatever I can get away with(hedonism and legality)

jagunlabi: Note that most atheists (at least the ones on this forum) come from established religions like christianity, so you cannot leave this fact out. When you say "GOD", which one are you referring to, then?

I was actually going for the more general idea of God. he reason for the thread was to challenge atheists to make good their claim rather than provide an array of gods as targets for them to shoot at (which is what most atheists would rather do as it is easier to attack another person's stance than to defend your stance or at least state it properly), however for the sake of argument I will assume "the christian God" with you.

I have never thought it necessary to know where my conscience comes from. I just know it is there and i respect it, very much. Which is why i left religion in the first place.

You know funny enough, a lot of theists explain their faith just like that (bolded)

It means you are nuts if you do that, bro, not evil. But what exactly does this question got to do with the bible god? Are you comparing human beings with tea cups? Is it not against your conscience to compare humans with tea cups?

As for the analogy of the teacups, the point is that a creator is fully justified and is not evil for destroying his own creation considering that it was his in the first place. . . . . . and no it is not against my conscience to compare human beings with teacups; please don't try to guilt-trip me over figurative speech, I'm sure you are better than that.


What I want is this: if you say you are an atheist, why are you an atheist? why are you right? give me a valid reason why God/gods must definitely not exist?

Mr_Anony: 1. Atheism is supposed to be the lack of a belief in deity (God) rather it is the convenient denial of God so as to go against conscience commit as many crimes one can get away with.

2. Atheism has no moral code or guidelines i.e. does not define good and evil hence serial rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, fraudsters are all justified as atheists.

3. The world's most hideous mass murderers were atheists namely Hitler and Stalin

4. For a group of people who don't believe in God, they go a long way to try and force this non-belief on others who don't share it and will even resort to name-calling and violence in some cases. It seems to me that they do this so as to constantly convince themselves that there is no God even though their consciences and their souls protest (heck they even deny the soul)

5. Atheists will always misuse science by quoting so called "scientific facts" as if they were some infallible creed (deliberately forgetting that fallibility is in fact the nature of science)

6. Atheists simply do not have any morals and they are quite comfortable attacking those with morals by calling them intolerant brainwashed fanatic bigots because it gives them some sort of a superiority complex.

7. Though they often claim to be logical, they mostly fail to provide logical arguments rather they resort to over-simplistic lines, quoting theists out of context and plain old mockery.



8. My question to Atheists; Justify your belief. Can you prove to me with 100% certainty that there is no God?





This is in response to similar posts by logicboy and other militant evangelist atheists on Nairaland.

Well done, Mr Anony. I am happy someone had the courage to reply my thread https://www.nairaland.com/946153/things-they-wont-tell-you

However, while my thread is factual, yours has a lot of inaccuracies.

1) Atheism has nothing to do with conscience and crime. Talking about crime, the most peaceful countries are secular and irreligious. The Vatican city is one of the states with the most crimes in the world.

2) No one really has moral guidlines, even christianity. Should we follow the bible's moral guidelines and burn witches, stone homosexuals, keep women silent in church, regulate slavery and let rapists get married to their victims? Morality will always come from the individual and society, whether the morality is good/bad.

3) Hitler was a catholic. Christianity has killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined.

4) Hypocrisy. Christians force people to believe in their God by playing their sunday service on loud speakers to disturb communities, preaching in buses, preaching in the market and going from door to door. There are many christian channels on TV and churches on every street in Nigeria. However, when atheists talk about God on the internet, they are extremely evangelical

5) Not all athiests are scienitist and not all atheists use science to argue against religion. My thread above is evidence.

6) That is a lie. Atheists each have their own different individual ideas on morality. Morality comes from the individual and society which are subjective. The bible has useless morals- again, should we burn witches or tell women to be silent in churches?

7) Lies and ad hominems

Is that a rational reason to believe in a God? A God that has the same certainty as Santa Claus and the tooth fairy? We can not 100% disprove God or the Santa Clause although, there is not one physical evidence for God.

Mr anony, logicboys threads were opened cuz he once belonged to those religions. You were never an atheist *so do not bear false witness*. Read my an atheist reviews the bible thread and read this as well http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions

Okay. That is your own belief and not others, in this case, atheists. They believe that conscience comes from going against the golden rule, "do not unto others what you don't like done unto you". The so-called social contract. Going against this rule is enough to generate the so-called conscience, because one knows automatically that one has done something wrong by going against the golden rule. If you don't want your wife to be ra.ped by others, for example, you don't go and ra.e the wife of another. Social contract. If you do, your conscience will be pricking you that you have done something evil. Just the fact that you do not want the same done to you is enough deterrent.

We all operate by this rule. Now, whatever you wish to call the golden rule is your personal thing. Believing in a deity is not needed here. Man should be able to do this by himself.

Your theory about lack of believing in a deity result in hedonism is totally false, in my view. What if that deity in which you believe in, is itself, evil? Does that affect your conscience?

Mr_Anony:
I believe that man's conscience is God's law within us by which we are judged and can judge good and evil. It is because I can relate my conscience to pleasing/displeasing God that I do good and keep away from evil. If I say that God does not exist, then there will be no need to adhere to my conscience since I can't possibly displease someone who doesn't exist. All I am left with is whatever makes me happy and whatever I can get away with(hedonism and legality)

Well, that should show you that the matter of conscience goes way beyond the parameters that you have set here.

Mr_Anony: You know funny enough, a lot of theists explain their faith just like that (bolded)

This claim of yours i disagree with, totally. A creator should carry a certain amount of moral responsibility to his creations or else credibility will be lost in the eyes of the creations, especially if this creator is trying to be the focal point of morals. He shouldn't and is not free to do whatever he/she/it/they wishes with what is created just because he/she/it/they is the creator. This is a very dangerous way of thinking that leads to nowhere but tyranny.[quote author=Mr_Anony]
As for the analogy of the teacups, the point is that a creator is fully justified and is not evil for destroying his own creation considering that it was his in the first place. . . . . . and no it is not against my conscience to compare human beings with teacups; please don't try to guilt-trip me over figurative speech, I'm sure you are better than that.

A question for Mr_Anony

Do religious terrorists have conscience or not?

Jenwitemi: A question for Mr_Anony

Do religious terrorists have conscience or not?

Yes they do

jagunlabi: Okay. That is your own belief and not others, in this case, atheists. They believe that conscience comes from going against the golden rule, "do not unto others what you don't like done unto you". The so-called social contract. Going against this rule is enough to generate the so-called conscience, because one knows automatically that one has done something wrong by going against the golden rule. If you don't want your wife to be ra.ped by others, for example, you don't go and ra.e the wife of another. Social contract. If you do, your conscience will be pricking you that you have done something evil. Just the fact that you do not want the same done to you is enough deterrent.

We all operate by this rule. Now, whatever you wish to call the golden rule is your personal thing. Believing in a deity is not needed here. Man should be able to do this by himself.

Your theory about lack of believing in a deity result in hedonism is totally false, in my view. What if that deity in which you believe in, is itself, evil? Does that affect your conscience?

Well, that should show you that the matter of conscience goes way beyond the parameters that you have set here.

If I understand what you are saying, you are telling me that conscience transcends religion - I believe you were not refering to karma when you spoke of the golden rule. Notice that I am not saying that some people have a conscience while others don't, rather what i am saying is that everyone has a conscience but to obey your conscience you need God(especially in christianity since the golden rule you have quoted incidentally happens to be the summary of the law and the prophets according to Jesus Christ). Without a diety, you might as well ignore your conscience even though it pricks you because there will be no need to obey your conscience or do what is right since there is no fear of punishment or hope reward.

ea7: Mr anony, logicboys threads were opened cuz he once belonged to those religions. You were never an atheist *so do not bear false witness*. Read my an atheist reviews the bible thread and read this as well http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions

I haven't really read thruogh the whole of that link but I know some of those "contradictions" however that is not the point of this thread so I won't go down that path. Incidentally, I once did not believe in God. Lol, are you saying that logicboy was once a christian and a muslim as well? I didn't know that at all.

The question I have asked and keep asking is can you as an atheist prove to me with 100% certainty that there is no God/gods?

Good. Please then, explain why it is that their conscience does not prevent them from killing innocent people and themselves?

Mr_Anony:

Yes they do

After that, explain why conscience does not prevent church pastors from stealing their congregations tithings to enrich themselves and their minions.

logicboy:


Well done, Mr Anony. I am happy someone had the courage to reply my thread https://www.nairaland.com/946153/things-they-wont-tell-you

However, while my thread is factual, yours has a lot of inaccuracies.

1) Atheism has nothing to do with conscience and crime. Talking about crime, the most peaceful countries are secular and irreligious. The Vatican city is one of the states with the most crimes in the world.

2) No one really has moral guidlines, even christianity. Should we follow the bible's moral guidelines and burn witches, stone homosexuals, keep women silent in church, regulate slavery and let rapists get married to their victims? Morality will always come from the individual and society, whether the morality is good/bad.

3) Hitler was a catholic. Christianity has killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined.

4) Hypocrisy. Christians force people to believe in their God by playing their sunday service on loud speakers to disturb communities, preaching in buses, preaching in the market and going from door to door. There are many christian channels on TV and churches on every street in Nigeria. However, when atheists talk about God on the internet, they are extremely evangelical

5) Not all athiests are scienitist and not all atheists use science to argue against religion. My thread above is evidence.

6) That is a lie. Atheists each have their own different individual ideas on morality. Morality comes from the individual and society which are subjective. The bible has useless morals- again, should we burn witches or tell women to be silent in churches?

7) Lies and ad hominems

Is that a rational reason to believe in a God? A God that has the same certainty as Santa Claus and the tooth fairy? We can not 100% disprove God or the Santa Clause although, there is not one physical evidence for God.

Nice to see you again logicboy, right now I am very tempted to argue with you point for point - and I could (maybe I'll do that later) - but I fear we will end up in an unnecessary back and forth and miss the point of the whole thread so since number 8 is what I consider the point of the thread anyway, I'll just address that,

8. Is it then more rational to deny God's existence? When you make a blanket statement like "God does not exist" You had better be ready to say what makes you so sure instead of waiting for the next person to come along who claims God exists so that you can call him/her delusional

Jenwitemi: After that, explain why conscience does not prevent church pastors from stealing their congregations tithings to enrich themselves and their minions.

everyone has a conscience, however you can decide to do good and adhere to your conscience or to do wrong and ignore your conscience. Your conscience is still there all the same. Your conscience does not force your actions

To me the idea of God is personal and should not be forced on humans for example the whiteman God in form of christianity was used to capture africans and slavery telling our forfathers that our rewards are in heaven,while they were been wiped and taken in ship away.now what type of God is that I wanna know. Religion has and will continue to be the major problem of this world.

poweredcom: To me the idea of God is personal and should not be forced on humans for example the whiteman God in form of christianity was used to capture africans and slavery telling our forfathers that our rewards are in heaven,while they were been wiped and taken in ship away.now what type of God is that I wanna know. Religion has and will continue to be the major problem of this world.

What if I told you that slavery was going on in Africa between African tribes before the whitemen came, european slavery was not carried out in the name of christianity besides in Africa at least, conversion to christianity was not forced on the natives. christian missionaries went about preaching some even lost their lives in the process. actually it was christians like william wilberforce and abraham lincoln as well as a number of other christian missionaries who fought to end slave trade.

What people do in the name of their god doesn't necessarily define their god. every religion should really be judged by it's principles and it's adherrents rather than it's claimants

So, what you trying to say is that, believing in a deity gives you conscience but it does not oblige you to adhere to it, right? Well, if you have this choice, what is the point of this deity you worship, then? What is the point of having a conscience, as a matter of fact?

Mr_Anony, you did not think the topic of this thread through before posting, did you? Because your argument has already fallen apart at it's seams.

Mr_Anony:

everyone has a conscience, however you can decide to do good and adhere to your conscience or to do wrong and ignore your conscience. Your conscience is still there all the same. Your conscience does not force your actions

Jenwitemi: So, what you trying to say is that, believing in a deity gives you conscience but it does not oblige you to adhere to it, right? Well, if you have this choice, what is the point of this deity you worship, then? What is the point of having a conscience, as a matter of fact?

Mr_Anony, you did not think the topic of this thread through before posting, did you? Because your argument has already fallen apart at it's seams.

You are missing my point entirely, besides we seem to have gone slightly off on a tangent. Whether you believe in a diety or not, you still have a conscience
This is what I am saying If conscience were the law, then the diety would be the lawmaker/judiciary/police that enforces this law. When an atheist denies deity, he still has a conscience (the laws) but as he has denied the enforcer, he has declared himself to be under no obligation to do what is right. According to an atheist, there is no god i.e. I can do whatever I want, no one will punish me or reward me. This is why I say that atheists have no morals.

Moving on from here; Without an enforcer, the law is useless. the fact that we have a conscience is avery strong indication for the existence of diety. Once an atheist denies deity he has essentially denied conscience and morality.

So I ask what is the reason for atheism? why should I deny God/gods? What makes atheism valid? Can any atheist prove to me 100% that God does not/can not possibly exist?

nope. can you prove thor does not? spiderman can be real, prove he isnt.

Mr_Anony: What if I told you that slavery was going on in Africa between African tribes before the whitemen came, european slavery was not carried out in the name of christianity besides in Africa at least, conversion to christianity was not forced on the natives. christian missionaries went about preaching some even lost their lives in the process. actually it was christians like william wilberforce and abraham lincoln as well as a number of other christian missionaries who fought to end slave trade.

What people do in the name of their god doesn't necessarily define their god. every religion should really be judged by it's principles and it's adherrents rather than it's claimants

Well nice one there but why does a religion one knows nothing about was been forced upon we africans telling us our God are fake that their God was the best meaqn while all. Gods are the same

I don't think that i am missing your point at all. as a matter of fact, you are confusing your point because you are just twisting all over the place.

- Good, then we agree that one does not need to believe in a deity to have a conscience.

- In my view, you don't need to tie the conscience to any deity for it to do it's work in man. It is fine on it's own.

- No. I disagree. The man made societal norms are the laws, not deities. The society then enforces, judges amd sentences whoever goes against the norm of the society, not some deity. And if you look closely at the modern day societies, that is exactly how it is.

-Denying a deity is not denying the enforcer because the enforcer is not the deity. If that were so, all atheists should be incarcerated because denying a deity will be equivalent to breaking the law, which is nothing but fantasy, especially in the democratic nations.

- Just because someone does not believe in a deity does not mean they will become a sociopath. This is a fantasy that cannot be proven anywhere on the planet. On the contrary, it is the atheist countries that are more restraint in their actions than the religious ones. If your theory is true, why is a religious nation like Nigeria is so full of chaos and corruption? Where is their conscience? What is it doing while Nigerians rob their own nation blind. Where are the morals of Nigerians? Is it because the enforcer deity has gone to sleep or is he just simply saying, scr.ew it, i ain't enforcing anything. Let them rob themselves blind?

- I asked a question earlier about religious terrorists which you conveniently omitted. Do killing innocent people and themselves show that they have morals? Does any act of terrorism show morals?

Mr_Anony:

You are missing my point entirely, besides we seem to have gone slightly off on a tangent. Whether you believe in a diety or not, you still have a conscience
This is what I am saying If conscience were the law, then the diety would be the lawmaker/judiciary/police that enforces this law. When an atheist denies deity, he still has a conscience (the laws) but as he has denied the enforcer, he has declared himself to be under no obligation to do what is right. According to an atheist, there is no god i.e. I can do whatever I want, no one will punish me or reward me. This is why I say that atheists have no morals.

Moving on from here; Without an enforcer, the law is useless. the fact that we have a conscience is avery strong indication for the existence of diety. Once an atheist denies deity he has essentially denied conscience and morality.

So I ask what is the reason for atheism? why should I deny God/gods? What makes atheism valid? Can any atheist prove to me 100% that God does not/can not possibly exist?

poweredcom:

Well nice one there but why does a religion one knows nothing about was been forced upon we africans telling us our God are fake that their God was the best meaqn while all. Gods are the same

If you are talking about christianity as a religion, you and I both know that Africans especially indigenous Nigerians were not forced to become christians. They were preached to and they chose to accept or reject it. In fact some of the first missionaries were killed for their faith and some of the first converts were ostracized by their tribes. Remember it was these missionaries that also brought schools and hospitals, did they also force their education and medicine upon us Africans?

ea7: nope. can you prove thor does not? spiderman can be real, prove he isnt.

Since you cannot prove 100% that God does not/ cannot possibly exist, what is the validity in your claim that God doesn't exist? at best you can take the agnostic stance and say "God probably exists" The atheist stance of "God does not exist" is in itself flawed.

I know you are trying to put it into some context here but then since I have not said that thor or spiderman are real or not so I am not obliged to respond, nevertheless, assuming I said that spiderman does not exist but it so happens that you've met a guy in red and blue swinging from house to house who introduced himself to you as spiderman, in fact he has spewed his webs allover your house,you neighbours and some of your friends have also said they've met him as well as some other people in your town. You tell me about this experience and even show me the webs but my response is it can't possibly be true because spiderman does not exist, the webs must have been made by spiders and both you, your friends and neighbours and all the people in your town are either lying or delusional and i say this because i have not met him myself. I think you would then be justified to ask me to prove to you why spiderman is not real, don't you agree? This kinda describes the relationship between theists and atheists.

Mr_Anony: What if I told you that slavery was going on in Africa between African tribes before the whitemen came, european slavery was not carried out in the name of christianity besides in Africa at least, conversion to christianity was not forced on the natives. christian missionaries went about preaching some even lost their lives in the process. actually it was christians like william wilberforce and abraham lincoln as well as a number of other christian missionaries who fought to end slave trade.

What people do in the name of their god doesn't necessarily define their god. every religion should really be judged by it's principles and it's adherrents rather than it's claimants

WHATTT? ARE YOU bleeping KIDDING ME?


My tribe never sold slaves before white men came and so did many West African slaves. Slaves were never a commodity. My forefathers killed enemies or neighbouring villagers but no enslavement. Where was the need for slaves when we werent building monuments or pyramids and our farm labour came from the numerous children of our polygamous families?


You are a slave to try and bring down the weat african black man to defend the white man

Jenwitemi: I don't think that i am missing your point at all. as a matter of fact, you are confusing your point because you are just twisting all over the place.

You still haven't understood my point, I've been saying the same thing over and over again

- Good, then we agree that one does not need to believe in a deity to have a conscience.

yes conscience is present in man irrespective of whether one believes in a deity or not.

- In my view, you don't need to tie the conscience to any deity for it to do it's work in man. It is fine on it's own.

So far - at least in my conversation with you - I don't think I have tied conscience to any deity in particular

- No. I disagree. The man made societal norms are the laws, not deities. The society then enforces, judges amd sentences whoever goes against the norm of the society, not some deity. And if you look closely at the modern day societies, that is exactly how it is.

When you say the norms of society, bear in mind that societies differ and laws are more influenced by prevailing politics than by the peoples' conscience besides when I compared conscience to laws and deities to the enforcers, i didn't mean it in the literal sense, I was only trying to simplify, of course it is more complex.

-Denying a deity is not denying the enforcer because the enforcer is not the deity. If that were so, all atheists should be incarcerated because denying a deity will be equivalent to breaking the law, which is nothing but fantasy, especially in the democratic nations.

Again you did not understand my analogy properly

- Just because someone does not believe in a deity does not mean they will become a sociopath. This is a fantasy that cannot be proven anywhere on the planet. On the contrary, it is the atheist countries that are more restraint in their actions than the religious ones. If your theory is true, why is a religious nation like Nigeria is so full of chaos and corruption? Where is their conscience? What is it doing while Nigerians rob their own nation blind. Where are the morals of Nigerians? Is it because the enforcer deity has gone to sleep or is he just simply saying, scr.ew it, i ain't enforcing anything. Let them rob themselves blind?

This is the point where I feel you are beginning to get my point but then you are confusing what I mean by conscience. Conscience can be described as that little thing that makes you feel some guilt when you've done something wrong. It can warn you not to do something wrong but you can still go ahead and do it anyway. You'll still feel guilty for doing something wrong but you can choose to ignore it and move on. The fact that someone does evil is not evidence that he lacks a conscience but that he numbs himself to it.
Now both a theist and an atheist have conscience. For a theist, he believes that his god can punish him if he does wrong and reward him if he does right hence there is an incentive to do the right thing. For the atheist on the other hand there is no such incentive hence the only thing he really has to worry about are the laws of the society he lives in. Considering that (a) these laws can and do change (b) they can be manipulated (c) they vary by location, he cannot possibly be good as he is under no real obligation to adhere to his conscience. I am not saying that all atheists are sociopaths but if there was a sociopath, he would still be justified under atheism because atheism has no moral codes or guidelines.

- I asked a question earlier about religious terrorists which you conveniently omitted. Do killing innocent people and themselves show that they have morals? Does any act of terrorism show morals?

The question you asked earlier was whether terrorists have conscience, and I say yes they do. I have said earlier that everyone has a conscience, heeding it is another matter. I didn't evade your question, I thought I had answered this question when I said that everyone has a conscience

logicboy:

WHATTT? ARE YOU bleeping KIDDING ME?


My tribe never sold slaves before white men came and so did many West African slaves. Slaves were never a commodity. My forefathers killed enemies or neighbouring villagers but no enslavement. Where was the need for slaves when we werent building monuments or pyramids and our farm labour came from the numerous children of our polygamous families?


You are a slave to try and bring down the weat african black man to defend the white man

Your tribe - whichever that is - did not sell slaves, good for you. It is however a well known fact that the pre-colonial hausas did have slaves in their households as well as in the palaces of pre-colonial Yoruba Obas there were slaves and eunuchs, some tribes - I am not sure which now but I think in the calabar region - used to fatten up a chosen number of slaves so as to bury with their king. there are also known cases of pre-colonial slavery in east african regions and even in Ethiopia which didn't have any colonial masters there was slavery until 1942 when it was abolished by Haille Selassie. So you see slavery is neither a european concept nor christian for that matter. Go and study it properly

Mr_Anony: The fact that someone does evil is not evidence that he lacks a conscience but that he numbs himself to it.

Or maybe he doen't numb himself to it because he doesn't consider it evil.Besides conscience is dependent on a person's neurological make up, societal norms and personal values and treating it with your religious bias will just distort things and create a false dichotomy between good and evil.

A fundamentalist christian would view abortion as "evil" and have to "numb" herself to her conscience while a secular person who gets an abortion might do it ith a "clean conscience".

Mr_Anony: Now both a theist and an atheist have conscience. For a theist, he believes that his god can punish him if he does wrong and reward him if he does right hence there is an incentive to do the right thing...

How about just doing right because you can empathize with another person? Would you still be good if you were not under the threat of punishment? Would you do right if you didn't believe in "heaven"? Or do you do right because of the incentive?

Mr_Anony: For the atheist on the other hand there is no such incentive hence the only thing he really has to worry about are the laws of the society he lives in.

and what is wrong with that? What is wrong in being free to think what you want. To hate and love as is human nature without the fear of "Big Brother" reading your mind? What is wrong in abiding by only society's laws without defering to some "divine authority"?

Mr_Anony: Considering that (a) these laws can and do change (b) they can be manipulated (c) they vary by location, he cannot possibly be good as he is under no real obligation to adhere to his conscience.

Laws change because times change. Laws will always be manipulated and broken(that's why civilized societies have systems of checks and balances). Laws vary by location because societies have different values.
What do a,b and c have to do with an atheist's conscience?

Mr_Anony: I am not saying that all atheists are sociopaths but if there was a sociopath, he would still be justified under atheism because atheism has no moral codes or guidelines.

LMAO. This doesn't deserve a rebuttal.

Mr_Anony:

Your tribe - whichever that is - did not sell slaves, good for you. It is however a well known fact that the pre-colonial hausas did have slaves in their households as well as in the palaces of pre-colonial Yoruba Obas there were slaves and eunuchs, some tribes - I am not sure which now but I think in the calabar region - used to fatten up a chosen number of slaves so as to bury with their king. there are also known cases of pre-colonial slavery in east african regions and even in Ethiopia which didn't have any colonial masters there was slavery until 1942 when it was abolished by Haille Selassie. So you see slavery is neither a european concept nor christian for that matter. Go and study it properly

Strawman- I never said the slavery is a European thing.


I am from Delta. No slaves there. Yes some kings had slaves. But did normal people sell slaves as a commodity? No!

The only King that I know that had slaves was the Oba of Benin. Please dont start adding things you dont know of about calabar and other Yoruba kings. My king had servants who had their own property and families.

Slavery was accepted by christianity as okay. So, please, why use it as a moral guideline?

logicboy:

Strawman- I never said the slavery is a European thing.


I am from Delta. No slaves there. Yes some kings had slaves. But did normal people sell slaves as a commodity? No!

The only King that I know that had slaves was the Oba of Benin. Please dont start adding things you dont know of about calabar and other Yoruba kings. My king had servants who had their own property and families.

My friend, you seem to have a knack for dragging threads on tangents nevertheless we can both agree that there was pre-colonial slavery in Africa (whether sold or captured, Delta or Yoruba or whatever have you) The point is that slavery was not introduced to Africa by the whiteman.

Slavery was accepted by christianity as okay. So, please, why use it as a moral guideline?

There is a world of difference between accepted and encouraged. Slavery was the norm in apostolic times, Christianity isn't as much concerned about your physical state as it is with your spiritual state. The Christian teaching was to treat slaves as brothers in Christ. Colossians 3:11, Galatians 3:28, Philemon, 1Corinthians 7:18-24, Ephesians 6:5-9.

Slavery however is not the point of this thread the point of this thread is this; I want you as an atheist to logically back up the statement that there is no God. What makes you so sure? Tell me why God cannot possibly exist.