Reading From religious people on this forum and from my interactions with religious people from all sects, especially abrahamic, I am convinced beyond all doubts that religious faith is actually the opposite of what it claims to be.
By their actions and by the very contracdictory nature of religious doctrine, faith is nothing but a forced or coarced attempt to outwardly accept myths that do not resonate within an individual's inner mind or soul.
Let me show a few examples:

1. The threat of eternal punishment for rejecting belief. How can truth be forced on any one!. The truth should always stand on its own. It is only falshood that needs the constant threat of punishment in order to thrive.

2. Religious people believe that god loves all his creation, but at the same time, each individual is made to feel that god has a special love for him or her.If god's love is universal, all are equal before god and therefore god would be impersonal.
An impersonal god is somethng that religious folks outrightly reject simply because of the fear that a god that loves all equally may not be able to cater to individual whims.That is why the believer is encouraged to keep god very close(through monetary gifts,prayer and praises) or run the risk of abandonement.

3. Religious folks are quick to thank god for every good fortune, and blame the devil for every misfortune. When asked why god would permit the devil to do harm to his beloved, they usually reply that it is only because of god's wish and design. This would imply that god is the overseer of our fortunes and lives. If god is always in the driver's seat, how can anything ever go wrong!.Prayer should be redundant.

Therefore, I ask, is prayer(asking god to change fortunes) not an act of protest!, an indictment!
Is prayer not a covert way of telling god that he needs step up his game and to do a better job than he has been doing!
Are persistent prayers, fastings,tithes and seed sowing(bribes) not a form of doubt in the existence of god and his ability to deliver!
Are loud prayers, prayer vigils, stampinng of feet not a show of frustration and anxiety for a diety whom the petitioner fears might not be around or near!

I have seen that the more the religious fervour,the bigger the fear of the devil, demons, witches and every unknown.
Why does a beleiver need repeated daily or weekly reminders, of the presence and love of god by the use of threats, unless, the purveyors of religious dogma have a constant fear of relapse into doubts!

At the end , everyone lives on doubts about god. The difference is that the religious people are those who are terrified by thier own doubts and therefore take refuge in the repeated assurances of stronger mnded groups who often materially and emotionally exploit them for profit.

Very true and well thought out summations. . . .Nice one

Nice write up.

However, christians will avoid

plaetton:

Therefore, I ask, is prayer(asking god to change fortunes) not an act of protest!, an indictment!
Is prayer not a covert way of telling god that he needs step up his game and to do a better job than he has been doing!

If you believe that prayer is merely "asking God to change fortunes" then I regret to say you have a poverty-stricken idea of what that word refers to in terms of a communication with God.

Deep Sight:

If you believe that prayer is merely "asking God to change fortunes" then I regret to say you have a poverty-stricken idea of what that word refers to in terms of a communication with God.

What makes you think "fortunes" always means "money"? You seem poverty stricken yourself!

Deep Sight:

If you believe that prayer is merely "asking God to change fortunes" then I regret to say you have a poverty-stricken idea of what that word refers to in terms of a communication with God.

C'mon Deepsight,
What nice planet are you living on!
Bless me, heal me,protect me, give me strenght, give me this, grant me that. That is prayer. Perhaps not on your planet, but on my plantet, that is what we hear 99.8% of the time.
Its a request, a compliant, a petition, and an indictment for a univerese apparently not perfectly designed.
There should be no room for a complainer in a perfectly ordered universe, unless, ofcourse, you agree that the designer has not finished his work. If so, then resting on the 7th day was way too prematature.
lol.

We are all atheists or we all have a measure of scepticism?

***

In truth prayer has several functions but the main function of prayer is communication with one’s god. How the believer chooses to exact this communication or whatever subject the believer chooses to address is entirely up to them but of course the manner of the prayer is influenced by their mood and circumstance.
Some prayers are that of thanksgiving some are requests and some even serve to vent out feelings and frustrations – perhaps then it can be considered therapeutic for some.
I think it’s also to maintain a sense of connection with one’s god (or who one believes to be god). Without believers praying to their god they thus sever that link (and their god’s existence in their lives) so prayer is an important medium in maintaining the believer’s relationship with their god.

Personally I regard prayers as voiced out emotions/feelings directed at the authority that governs ones beliefs. Admittedly I deem the theatrical kind of prayers as mere drama but there are some who are sincere and moderate in their manner.

***

@OP Hmm interesting write up although I don’t regard all the observations that were made but I can understand what informed them.

Faith exhibited in a collective as opposed individually is an attempt to render the beliefs of a particular system more realness. It’s as if one of the aims in acquiring a significant number of "followers" for a belief system is to be accorded more legitimacy as do witnesses provide. More people declaring that a particular account is true will make others begin to consider the possibility of that actual account being true. However the problem with this is that if the stories from these “witnesses” differ and even contradict each other then people will of course question the validity and authenticity of this supposed “one” and “true” account. But of course there are some witnesses that rehearse their stories till it’s perfectly in tune with each other.


So I think it is religion and not faith that is a “coerced attempt to outwardly accept myths that do not resonate within an individual's inner mind or soul”. The number in these collectives are perhaps supposed to pose as a surety encouraging others to have faith in that particular deity as the more witnesses there is the more it may serve to validate a particular account. Faith was always meant to be an individual matter, religion just tries to have a monopoly on other individual’s faith under the guise of like mindedness, belief in the same god etc...but having a belief in the same god does not mean that faith will or should be identical or a group effort.
But the thing with maintaining a collective is that if one falls those adjacent are likely to be affected as well. Being in a collective allows for a hierarchy and thus inequality and even dependency. I suspect that people who are more susceptible to insecurity, gullibility, complacency and doubt may need an adhesive and support network i.e. religion to enable them to continue to peddle their supposed individual “faith”. If one begins to doubt then their “brothers in faith” will be there to dispel those feelings and mollycoddle them back into 100% believing.

emöfine2: We are all atheists or we all have a measure of scepticism?

***

In truth prayer has several functions but the main function of prayer is communication with one’s god. How the believer chooses to exact this communication or whatever subject the believer chooses to address is entirely up to them but of course the manner of the prayer is influenced by their mood and circumstance.
Some prayers are that of thanksgiving some are requests and some even serve to vent out feelings and frustrations – perhaps then it can be considered therapeutic for some.
I think it’s also to maintain a sense of connection with one’s god (or who one believes to be god). Without believers praying to their god they thus sever that link (and their god’s existence in their lives) so prayer is an important medium in maintaining the believer’s relationship with their god.

Personally I regard prayers as voiced out emotions/feelings directed at the authority that governs ones beliefs. Admittedly I deem the theatrical kind of prayers as mere drama but there are some who are sincere and moderate in their manner.

***

@OP Hmm interesting write up although I don’t regard all the observations that were made but I can understand what informed them.

Faith exhibited in a collective as opposed individually is an attempt to render the beliefs of a particular system more realness. It’s as if one of the aims in acquiring a significant number of "followers" for a belief system is to be accorded more legitimacy as do witnesses provide. More people declaring that a particular account is true will make others begin to consider the possibility of that actual account being true. However the problem with this is that if the stories from these “witnesses” differ and even contradict each other then people will of course question the validity and authenticity of this supposed “one” and “true” account. But of course there are some witnesses that rehearse their stories till it’s perfectly in tune with each other.


So I think it is religion and not faith that is a “coerced attempt to outwardly accept myths that do not resonate within an individual's inner mind or soul”. The number in these collectives are perhaps supposed to pose as a surety encouraging others to have faith in that particular deity as the more witnesses there is the more it may serve to validate a particular account. Faith was always meant to be an individual matter, religion just tries to have a monopoly on other individual’s faith under the guise of like mindedness, belief in the same god etc...but having a belief in the same god does not mean that faith will or should be identical or a group effort.
But the thing with maintaining a collective is that if one falls those adjacent are likely to be affected as well. Being in a collective allows for a hierarchy and thus inequality and even dependency. I suspect that people who are more susceptible to insecurity, gullibility, complacency and doubt may need an adhesive and support network i.e. religion to enable them to continue to peddle their supposed individual “faith”. If one begins to doubt then their “brothers in faith” will be there to dispel those feelings and
mollycoddle them back into 100% believing.

Nice write up. The psychology of spiritual attentiveness

emöfine2: We are all atheists or we all have a measure of scepticism?

***

In truth prayer has several functions but the main function of prayer is communication with one’s god. How the believer chooses to exact this communication or whatever subject the believer chooses to address is entirely up to them but of course the manner of the prayer is influenced by their mood and circumstance.
Some prayers are that of thanksgiving some are requests and some even serve to vent out feelings and frustrations – perhaps then it can be considered therapeutic for some.
I think it’s also to maintain a sense of connection with one’s god (or who one believes to be god). Without believers praying to their god they thus sever that link (and their god’s existence in their lives) so prayer is an important medium in maintaining the believer’s relationship with their god.

Personally I regard prayers as voiced out emotions/feelings directed at the authority that governs ones beliefs. Admittedly I deem the theatrical kind of prayers as mere drama but there are some who are sincere and moderate in their manner.

***

@OP Hmm interesting write up although I don’t regard all the observations that were made but I can understand what informed them.

Faith exhibited in a collective as opposed individually is an attempt to render the beliefs of a particular system more realness. It’s as if one of the aims in acquiring a significant number of "followers" for a belief system is to be accorded more legitimacy as do witnesses provide. More people declaring that a particular account is true will make others begin to consider the possibility of that actual account being true. However the problem with this is that if the stories from these “witnesses” differ and even contradict each other then people will of course question the validity and authenticity of this supposed “one” and “true” account. But of course there are some witnesses that rehearse their stories till it’s perfectly in tune with each other.


So I think it is religion and not faith that is a “coerced attempt to outwardly accept myths that do not resonate within an individual's inner mind or soul”. The number in these collectives are perhaps supposed to pose as a surety encouraging others to have faith in that particular deity as the more witnesses there is the more it may serve to validate a particular account. Faith was always meant to be an individual matter, religion just tries to have a monopoly on other individual’s faith under the guise of like mindedness, belief in the same god etc...but having a belief in the same god does not mean that faith will or should be identical or a group effort.
But the thing with maintaining a collective is that if one falls those adjacent are likely to be affected as well. Being in a collective allows for a hierarchy and thus inequality and even dependency. I suspect that people who are more susceptible to insecurity, gullibility, complacency and doubt may need an adhesive and support network i.e. religion to enable them to continue to peddle their supposed individual “faith”. If one begins to doubt then their “brothers in faith” will be there to dispel those feelings and mollycoddle them back into 100% believing.

Execellent write up. Always appreciate your perspectives.

logicboy:

What makes you think "fortunes" always means "money"? You seem poverty stricken yourself!

I didn't say anything about money in my post, my friend. You did, in yours.

plaetton:

C'mon Deepsight,
What nice planet are you living on!
Bless me, heal me,protect me, give me strenght, give me this, grant me that. That is prayer. Perhaps not on your planet, but on my plantet, that is what we hear 99.8% of the time.
Its a request, a compliant, a petition, and an indictment for a univerese apparently not perfectly designed.
There should be no room for a complainer in a perfectly ordered universe, unless, ofcourse, you agree that the designer has not finished his work. If so, then resting on the 7th day was way too prematature.
lol.

What utter nonsense.

Deep Sight:

I didn't say anything about money in my post, my friend. You did, in yours.

What is poverty? Is it not directly related to money? You mentioned poverty.

Fortunes dont relate only to money. Good fortunes can mean good health, happiness etc

logicboy:


What is poverty? Is it not directly related to money? You mentioned poverty.

Poverty of what? You really didn't read literature-in-english did you?

Fortunes dont relate only to money. Good fortunes can mean good health, happiness etc

Apparently you did not take cognisance of that in your response to mine.

Deep Sight:

Poverty of what? You really didn't read literature-in-english did you?



Apparently you did not take cognisance of that in your response to mine.

Huh? Poverty is poverty. When someone says "poverty-stricken" we know it means without money and means to survive on ones own.

logicboy:

Huh? Poverty is poverty. When someone says "poverty-stricken" we know it means without money and means to survive on ones own.

Huh? ? ? ? ?

Olodo.

Please read again and take note of the bolded.

Deep Sight:

If you believe that prayer is merely "asking God to change fortunes" then I regret to say you have a poverty-stricken idea of what that word refers to in terms of a communication with God.

Olodo.

Deep Sight:

What utter nonsense.

And what makes it so!

I dont seem to know where you are coming from. In church and in gatherings,I have never ever heard a prayer where god is not beseeched to grant this or grant that.
It is an error for you to think that your own lofty ideals are the norm rather than the exception. That is why i made reference to which ideal planet u might be living on.
I think you get my drift but your just being argumentative.

Deep Sight:


Huh? ? ? ? ?

Olodo.

Please read again and take note of the bolded.



Olodo.

Ode, I saw what you wrote the first time. "poverty stricken idea" makes no difference unless you are trying to say "poor idea".

And what makes it so!

This -

plaetton:

Bless me, heal me,protect me, give me strenght, give me this, grant me that. That is prayer.

This is a caricature of that which prayer in the sense referred to, refers to.

In fact, it discloses a poverty-stricken idea of inward communication on the part of anyone who asserts prayer to be so!

logicboy:

Ode, I saw what you wrote the first time. "poverty stricken idea" makes no difference unless you are trying to say "poor idea"

This is just illiteracy. I sign off you. Enjoy your adolescence.

Deep Sight:

This -



This is a caricature of that which prayer in the sense referred to, refers to.

In fact, it discloses a poverty-stricken idea of inward communication on the part of anyone who asserts prayer to be so!

Have you been to a church lately! Pls do. You speak lke some who is out of touch. Your lofty ideals(which I admire) has put you out of touch with what goes on around you.

Deep Sight:

This is just illiteracy. I sign off you. Enjoy your adolescence.

But I have pubic hair

You are perhaps mistaking prayer with things like meditation. They are quite distinct.
Meditation requires silence and concentration. It requires that the body and the mind be at rest. It is an attempt at communion with a transcendal mind, force or energy. The goal is union with the divine if just for a fraction of a second. It is not a petition and nothing is asked or expected.

Prayer, on the other hand is verbal, very loud in most cases. its usually an expression of frustration for unrealised expectations and a request for favour.

plaetton:

Have you been to a church lately! Pls do. You speak lke some who is out of touch. Your lofty ideals(which I admire) has put you out of touch with what goes on around you.

My dear, I have been. I see all the nonsensical ideas of prayer. That does nothing to dissaude me from that which I believe prayer to be. Indeed, the atheist who seizes upon such as a ground on which to make any cognate declarations is not yet reflective in his thinking - in the same way as I always say that the atheist who seizes upon the frailties of religious thought to ground his atheism is not yet philosophically grounded. Theism or Atheism, must stand on strong philosophical and scientific perspectives - and not on the ridiculous notions of any myth or religion. Neither.

Oh, by the by -

https://www.nairaland.com/652247/dilemma-praying-deist

What is deepsight on about?. . .

plaetton: You are perhaps mistaking prayer with things like meditation. They are quite distinct.
Meditation requires silence and concentration. It requires that the body and the mind be at rest. It is an attempt at communion with a transcendal mind, force or energy. The goal is union with the divine if just for a fraction of a second. It is not a petition and nothing is asked or expected.

This is prayer. In the sense we speak of.

The shouting you speak of, is just that - shouting.

Deep Sight:

This is prayer. In the sense we speak of.

The shouting you speak of, is just that - shouting.

Exactly what I mean. this is your prayer. You are not a religious person. The prayer for a religious person is quite different. we agree on that.
So what is so nonsensical about what I wrote earlier!
Remember, this is the religilous section, sorry I mean religious secton.

mazaje: What is deepsight on about?. . .

Lmao, he wants plaetton to view prayer the same way he does, and if plaetton doesn't, then it's "utter nonsense"..............you know, the usual.

Martian:

Lmao, he wants plaetton to view prayer the same way he does, and if plaetton doesn't, then it's "utter nonsense"..............you know, the usual.

Hey guys, all I mean is that we should not seize nonsensical religious notions and thereby attempt to use such to discredit the truly sublime.

Prayer, properly understood, is sublime.

Deep Sight:

Hey guys, all I mean is that we should not seize nonsensical religious notions and thereby attempt to use such to discredit the truly sublime.
Prayer, properly understood, is sublime.

Oooohhh, what's the "truly sublime"........

Prayer, properly understood, is.........placebo for superstitious people. That's sublime.

But is there anything that is properly understood through religion. If everything was ideal, then there would be no need for debates on this forum. Everything about religion is controversial. Just read all the posts on this forum. the religious people are even confused about which versions or translations of their revealed truth is truly true . It leaves room for a lot of caricature. Those of us that are free just have to enjoy our laughs.

plaetton: But is there anything that is properly understood through religion. If everything was ideal, then there would be no need for debates on this forum. Everything about religion is controversial. Just read all the posts on this forum. the religious people are even confused about which versions or translations of their revealed truth is truly true . It leaves room for a lot of caricature. Those of us that are free just have to enjoy our laughs.

Martian:

Oooohhh, what's the "truly sublime"........

Prayer, properly understood, is.........placebo for superstitious people. That's sublime.

Okay o.

Deep Sight:
Okay o.

Yeah right!! once you think up more crap, you will revisit the thread.