MsDarkSkin: Basically the Spaniards came and introduced some unwanted diseases to the natives who were not used to them.
Disease, persecution/murder and mixing eventually caused the population to decline.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

What does this have to do with you?

#%&@:

so now the important question is: are there remants of the indigenous people still in jamaica? if they are still there, are they happy that the land of their fathers is now regarded as a "black" nation and do they identify as black?

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#%&@:
yeah yeah yeah, i dont care about the supposed brotherly love between the natives and people of african descent but historically it was not a black nation. u guys with the help of europeans went there and colonized their asses. you then reduced their population drastically and when the europeans decided to hand over power, they handed over to the people of african descent who gave the nation a new "black" identity while the natives were left out in the cold. you then wiped off their civilization and replaced with afrocentrism that they never gave a sh1t about. it seems the indigenous people got the shorter end of the stick and the people of african descent are the ones who benefitted most from the colonization of the land because today jamaican is a "black" nation that identifies with africa and not europe. so are the natives in any prominent position in jamaica?

MsDarkSkin:

You asked me a question and I answered it.
So unless you are Jamaican and know my history from the time the Tainos left Venezuela and populated my island until now. I suggest you keep your assumptions to yourself, Royal.

How did "blacks benefit"? It wasn't until recently we had a full black prime minister. Michael Manley and Bustamante were biracials/creoles and before them were whites. Most of Jamaica's poor is black while the mixed race, white and non-blacks own the most businesses and hold prominent positions. So how are we benefiting from their loss? What are we supposed to forget we came from Africa? To take up the Taino identity? Smell the jerk seasoning and wake up from your dream. To imply we "killed off the indians" as if it were our fault we were brought to island in chains is preposterous and HIGHLY offensive. Then you talk about how Tainos of my island don't care about "black pride", YET as I said before they were the ones who sheltered, mixed with and LIVED LOVING with the Africans. So really your socalled "disinterest" in their living as one really begs one to question, what is the point of this thread?

To continue arguing with me?

#%&@:


keep ur emotions aside. im trying to understand how jamaica became a "black" nation. and from what i have gathered, it was through colonialism which u cant dispute. the indigenous people of the land never gave a sh1t about africa until the people of african descent showed up with europeans.

so what are u talking about them having "black pride"?

did their ancestors who lived on the land for centuries before u and the europeans showed up give a sh1t about "black pride" or afrocentrism? lol, i dont think so. and i doubt they even knew u existed somewhere in africa but u can always correct me if im wrong.

now, it doesn’t matter when u had a "full black” PM, who cares? when u are not indigenous to the land? even south africa that has indigenous black people got their first black president less than two decades ago. yet u are whining of having a “full black" PM recently. lol, and i dont even want to know ur defination of "full black"

and yeah, u benefitted the most from the colonization of land because today u have a country that you are shaping its identity.

and jamaica is a country that identifies with "black" africa and not europe where the first colonizers come from while a country like the US still identifies with europe. anyway, what i trying to get at is that the indigenous people got the shorter end of the stick and were left out in the cold. their population was reduced drastically and civilization destroyed.

so are the indigenous people in any prominent position in jamaica or they are still in the cold?

They visit various maroon camps and are eager to learn about their "Africanized" brethren.

Then you talk about how Tainos of my island don't care about "black pride", YET as I said before they were the ones who sheltered, mixed with and LIVED LOVING with the Africans.

#%&@:




lol, msdarkskin.. i can see na english we wan start to dey explain. if u follow the sequence of our comments, u said they are eager to learn about their "africanized" brethen. and that was when i said they never gave a sh1t about afrocentrism. then u went to blab about them caring about "black pride" that was when i replied that they never cared about such things until u showed up. and i guess i should have used ur word for word in my response and used "caring" instead of "having" so my bad. but bottom line is, they never CARED about such things until u showed up with europeans.

as for the rest of ur comment, well, u are a colonizer just like the europeans. the population of the natives declined, while urs flourished and that is not a benefit? and due to the growth in ur population, u were able to organize urselves and demanded that power be handed over to u in a land that u are not indigenous to, and that is not a benefit? and oh, everything is not in google, that was why i asked. so do u have an answer or not?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/colony

col·o·ny   [kol-uh-nee]
noun, plural col·o·nies.
1. a group of people who leave their native country to form in a new land a settlement subject to, or connected with, the parent nation.

col·o·nize   [kol-uh-nahyz]
col·o·nized, col·o·niz·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to establish a colony in; settle: England colonized Australia.

im·pe·ri·al·ism   [im-peer-ee-uh-liz-uhm]
noun
1.
the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies.

The Tainos even to this day are very accepting people just as their ancestors were. The Pan-Indigenous groups are trying to find evidence of Taino presence and influence in Jamaica. They visit various maroon camps and are eager to learn about their "Africanized" brethren.

Rober Edward: I think in 1914 he started the Universal Negro Improvement Association (UNIA), in Jamaica. The UNIA, which grew into an international organisation, encouraged self-government for black people worldwide; self-help economic projects and protest against racial discrimination.

a group of people who leave their native country to form in a new land a settlement subject to, or connected with, the parent nation.

What do you mean theirs declined while ours flourished therefore we benefited?

You make absolutely NO sense in your questions or assertions. And clearly know nothing of Caribbean history or the English language.

MsDarkSkin:

LOL you are talking about Marcus Garvey. You are YEARS ahead brother.

MsDarkSkin: You asked how did Jamaica become a black nation.
I answered your question. Instead you want to chastise me about something we black Jamos could not control.
Before we even got on the land, their population was ALREADY in decline. They mixed with us knowing they were a "dying" race in terms of numbers. So don't come on here and ask to know the history of my island and then accuse us black Jamaicans (who represent the face of Jamaica today - btw you didn't see any "lols" so i obviously dont find it funny) as being "colonizers".

You have a motive for your questions. You need to take up their grievances with the Spanish and British. Black Jamos are not to blame for the Taino decline. And the "fight" that Marcus Garvey put up was to identify the fact that although some of us have Taino ancestry we are still more African than anything and he was fighting for equal rights and just of ALL people especially the black man which he felt needed to be in touch with who they really are. If the Taino on my island had a fair shot of survival, they, i am sure, would have had their own organizations. But because the Europeans introduced disease and literally killed some of them "for fun", they declined in numbers.

What ever personal feeling you have towards Jamos is on you. You asked about my people and I answered your questions. End of.

#%&@:
lol..funny video i found. it seems some whities are also whining about the current jamaica and its character.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTAbGqyAHlo&feature=plcp

oh, and asians.

#%&@:


lol, i have nothing against jamaicans. sizzla is one of me favorite artiste and he can sing his azz off. and i dont have any motives coz i know civilizations come and go. nothing lasts forever and jamaica became a black nation through colonialism. but i will never lay the blame on "whitey" alone for the decline of the indigenous people and their civilization. whitey may have started it because they were trying to expand their territories but today jamaica is no longer a "white" territory like the US, but a "black" one. and now that u blacks have taken over the land, where are the indigenous people? they may have declined in numbers but where are the remnants? are they happy that jamaica is now a black nation? are they part of the govt? simple questions need simple answers not emotional responses. but if u cannot answer, then let it go.

MsDarkSkin:

it's not that I cannot answer the question...I ALREADY DID.
You fail to comprehend that. You want me to say blacks are responsible for their decline and that is false.

I don't even know why you asked me this question to begin with if you already have your personal opinion LODGED in your mind. Makes no sense.

Anyway I answered your question..you can go on about your life now.

PAGAN 9JA:
my friends there is still one pure Carib Tribe left.

Because of Dominica's rugged area, Caribs were able to hide from European forces. The island's east coast includes a 3,700-acre (15 km2) territory known as the Carib Territory that was granted to the people by the British Crown in 1903. There are only 3000 Caribs remaining. They elect their own chief. In July 2003, Caribs observed 100 Years of Territory. In July 2004, Charles Williams was elected as Carib Chief, who was succeeded by Chief Garnette Joseph.

MAY THE GODS BLESS THEM.

and yes the[b] blacks are responsible for their decline[/b].

they stole Carib women and r.aped them. .

Population decline

The virgin soil epidemic caused by the arrival of smallpox and other diseases from Europe, combined with Spain's harsh policies of enslavement, resettlement, and the separation of families, the encomienda system, resulted in Taino society's drastic decline within a few decades after contact.[12] Attacks by Carib tribes and unrelenting harsh treatment by the Europeans accelerated the process. Although Taino society was destroyed by European expansion, some of their bloodlines persist among the new settlers, primarily Western and African peoples.
Frederick Albion Ober, after his trip in July 1898 of the West Indies, notes:

"... a barbarous fact. When the ancient Caribs came here from the south, they came as conquerors, and killed every adult male Arawak who fell into their hands. But they preserved the women and children,..."[13]

The population of African and Eurasian peoples in the Americas grew steadily, while the number of the indigenous people plummeted. Eurasian diseases such as smallpox, influenza, bubonic plague and pneumonic plagues devastated the Native Americans who did not have immunity. Conflict and outright warfare with European newcomers and other American tribes reduced populations and disrupted traditional society. The extent and causes of the decline have long been a subject of academic debate, along with its characterization as a genocide.[2]

There is some disagreement among scholars about how widespread warfare was in pre-Columbian America,[34] but there is general agreement that war became deadlier after the arrival of the Europeans and their firearms. Europeans had gunpowder and swords, which made killing easier and war more deadly. Europeans proved consistently successful in achieving domination in warfare with Native Americans for a variety of reasons. One reason was the staying power of the Europeans, who could call on a far ranging supply network, and could sustain a conflict over several years including the winters if necessary. Almost no Indian tribes had the stored resources to conduct a war for more than a few months. The massive death toll from disease played a major role in the European conquest, but equally decisive was the European approach to war, which was less ritualistic and more focused on achieving decisive victory.

Massacres
Main article: Indian Massacres
Las Casas and other dissenting Spaniards from the colonial period gave vivid descriptions of the atrocities inflicted upon the natives. This has helped to create an image of the Spanish conquistadores as cruel in the extreme. Even as late 1520, there were tentative parleys between the still explorative Spaniards who were continuously disadvantaged by the natives' superior knowledge of the terrain.[38][39] Great revenues were drawn from Hispaniola so the advent of losing manpower didn't benefit the Spanish crown. At best, the reinforcement of vanguards sent by the Council of the Indies to explore the Caribana country and gather information on alliances or hostilities was the main goal of the local viceroys and their adelantados.[40] Although mass killings and atrocities were not a significant factor in native depopulation, no mainstream scholar dismisses the sometimes humiliating circumstances now believed to be precipitated by civil disorder as well as Spanish cruelty.[41][42]
However, in many areas settlers and even governments did engage in what have been called "democides", usually against nomadic Indian tribes who were seen solely as hindrances to land use by European settlers.[citation needed] Whether or not these people were non-combatants (intruding on the term "massacre" is a subject to debate. Notable democides include:

The Taínos in the Antilles (Some believe 80% of the population disappeared in thirty years).[4] The smallpox outbreak in 1518–1519 wiped out much of the region's indigenous population.[43]

The Pequot War in early New England.

In mid-19th century Argentina, post-independence leaders Juan Manuel de Rosas and Julio Argentino Roca engaged in what they presenteded as a "Conquest of the Desert" against the natives of the Argentinian interior, leaving over 1,300 indigenous dead.[44][45]

While some California tribes were settled on reservations, others were hunted down and massacred by 19th century American settlers. It is estimated that some 4,500 people of the Population of Native California suffered violent deaths between 1849 and 1870.[46][47]

[edit]Displacement and disruption
Even more consequential than warfare or mistreatment on indigenous populations was the geographic displacement of native Indian tribes. The increased European population due to immigration and high birth rates of Native European settlers put pressure on native tribes to relocate and alter their traditional ways of life. The introduction of new forms of intensive agriculture by Europeans let them grow enough food in a given area to support many more people than the native hunting and gathering societies could. Displacement of native peoples living their traditional lifestyles often resulted in decreased birth rates and often higher death rates which steadily lowered their populations for some time. In the United States, for example, the relocations of Native Americans resulting from the policies of Indian removal and the reservation system created a disruption which resulted in fewer births and a short term population decline.

The populations of many Native American peoples were reduced by the common practice of intermarrying with Europeans.[48] Although many Indian cultures that once thrived are extinct today, their descendants exist today in some of the bloodlines of the current inhabitants of the Americas.
[edit]

#%&@:


and why would i expect u to say that? u cannot take responsibilty for anything, no matter how small. u are the type who blames everyone else but urself. and u have not answered my question, but beating around the bush. and the video i posted are ur fellow colonists whining about you.

but where are the natives? u cannot answer.

In stead of trying to chastise me for something that happened long ago, you need to ask questions with no ulterior motives and then have the nerve to claim to like Jamaican music, when you clearly don't like the people.

Focus on the issues of Nigeria and how to make the nation right instead of passing false judgment on black Jamaicans when you don't know a thing about Jamaican history.

Don't expect me to reply on this nonsensical thread again.
You summoned me from the "Somali" thread and here I am thinking I am going to have a normal conversation about my island. It's apparent to me now what this is all about. Keep your thread and thank you for wasting my time. Word of advice, NEVER you ask me a question about Jamaica again. You don't want answers you want an argument. Grow up.

MsDarkSkin: The Carib Indians were known to be cannibalistic and would sacrifice Taino men during rituals.

PAGAN 9JA:
they stole Carib women and r.aped them. .

#%&@:


now it is not only whitey u are blaming but also blaming fellow natives? but unlike u, the caribs are indigenous so it doesnt matter just like there are cannibalistic tribes all over black-africa.

PAGAN 9JA:


Yes I agree! it was none of your the black jamaicans business to go and teach them manners. even our Igbo brothers in Nigeria were cannibals in the past. does that mean we go and teach them manners ofcourse NOT!

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MsDarkSkin: You asked me a question and I answered it.
So unless you are Jamaican and know my history from the time the Tainos left Venezuela and populated my island until now. I suggest you keep your assumptions to yourself, "Royal".