fumisko:
The fact also that you can't prove a negative is your own point of view. Those who go to court because the were accused of stealing go to court to prove that "the did not steal" that's a negative. Most court cases are to prove a "I did not or we did not" so is that called a positive or what? Even atheists are trying to prove God does not exist. That's also a negative the are proving. So tell me who told you negatives can't be proved

Ignorance. If someone took you to court on the basis of stealing, you are innocent until proven guilty. All one has to do is nullify whatever argument the prosecution has.


You dont prove a negative.

[quote author=MacDaddy01]@ Fumisko

1) Yes, I volunteer at an African charity

2) People like you give God the glory when good things happen but never say anything about god when bad things happen. God is good for giving me this jhob but the other jobless christians are being ignored by god? The starving children are being ignored by god?


3) "God sat dowm and watched his son die for us". Replace "god" with any other persons name and you would see how evil the first statement is. God that could choose to wipe out everybody's sin at the wave of a finger, sends his son on a suicide mission. Have you been brainwashed not to see the errors in such....
4).......?

I get the logical part of your arguments. Which is good. And I once dint believe in God too but I don't come out to say I was an atheist. I didn't even know d meaning of that word then. I just doubted the fact. And if we continue with this argument it would never end. Truly. A, no enemy to you. Just a friend. But it took me a shocking experience in my life as a person to clear the doubt on the existence of a God. When God has touched and affected one's life personally, it becomes to late to prove that there is no God to me.
One thing I know for true is this e.g we have a president in Nigeria. I can choose to believe you and say its true or say it can never be true after all there are boko haram and stuffssssss and you say there is a president But it would never change the fact that there is one.
I have also come to a point that even if this world comes to an end, and even if, even if at all there is no God I would yet still be proud of this very Christ life style I lived after all I have nothing to loose. Because I have tasted both, I know I would choose God over and over. It's my prayer we all don't make make wrong choices that would cost us a lot in life. For me and for you and all

MacDaddy01:


Ignorance. If someone took you to court on the basis of stealing, you are innocent until proven guilty. All one has to do is nullify whatever argument the prosecution has.


You dont prove a negative.

Ok. You won. Happy now? But whether there is God or not at the end we would all know. Remember what we believe I.e as u said there is no God won't change the fact that there is one if we meet a God at the end of life. Of which am positive we would, and my believe that there is God won't change the fact that there is no God if there isn't at the end of life. But I know I won't have anything to loose. All I should praying for and longing for now is how to live a life pleasing to him so I can even make that heaven am so proud of and cant wait to see on that day. It's not just my bragging in the fact that there is God in this our arguement that he needs or cares about. But my heart and lifestyle that should glorify him in every way so am through wiith this argument.

fumisko:
Ok. You won. Happy now? But whether there is God or not at the end we would all know. Remember what we believe I.e as u said there is no God won't change the fact that there is one if we meet a God at the end of life. Of which am positive we would, and my believe that there is God won't change the fact that there is no God if there isn't at the end of life. But I know I won't have anything to loose. All I should praying for and longing for now is how to live a life pleasing to him so I can even make that heaven am so proud of and cant wait to see on that day. It's not just my bragging in the fact that there is God in this our arguement that he needs or cares about. But my heart and lifestyle that should glorify him in every way so am through wiith this argument.

Like I said in another thread, "people are greedy and because something works for them, they ignore the colossal damage it does to others".


You say that God exists? Is it the God of the old testament that permitted slavery?
You say that God exists? Is he Jesus Christ that was racist towards the Canaanite woman? (I came for the lost sheep of isreal and cllaing the woman a dog)


Furthermore, you say you have Jesus/God in your life. Where is God for the starving children in Africa? You read the bible because you are literate. What about chidlren with no food or education (illiterates)? Where is God for them. Because you think that God has provided for you, you think he exists.


You are willfully ignorant. You choose to live in this delusion because you like it and you think it works for you. Afterall, you are not starving like those children, you have internet connection and you're educated.


You sicken me.

Why are u wasting ur precious time arguing with dis unrepentant atheist? It a foolish thing trying to educate those who are happy to remain in their state of ignorance. Let him believes whatever he want to believe. After all, he was created a free moral agent. Sooner or later, he will realise that his limited by limitations to understand God who is unlimited by limitations.

fridayiwere: Why are u wasting ur precious time arguing with dis unrepentant atheist? It a foolish thing trying to educate those who are happy to remain in their state of ignorance. Let him believes whatever he want to believe. After all, he was created a free moral agent. Sooner or later, he will realise that his limited by limitations to understand God who is unlimited by limitations.

See this ignoramus calling someone ignorant.


You believe in a god that there is no evidence for.

^^

But your religion is validated solely by faith, when did the lack of faith become ignorance??

Kay 17: ^^

But your religion is validated solely by faith, when did the lack of faith become ignorance??

hmmm!
I can see that everything u believe in are physical for u to see.

There are nothing that u believe in that u cant see,
Guy, assuming u are i a very thick jungle that human seldom venture into.
And out of no where u site a very big house standing in front of u what would ur conclussion be?
That the house appeared on it own or that you will ask "who built this house?"
even though u did not see the owner or builder.

The answer you give to this question should tell you how honest u are.
Peace

But if you said it was a rock, I would easily conclude that it isn't man made rather natural. However since its a house, I must conclude that its man-made as all houses are man made in my experience.

Kay 17: But if you said it was a rock, I would easily conclude that it isn't man made rather natural. However since its a house, I must conclude that its man-made as all houses are man made in my experience.

beautifuly said.

Meaning that though u have not seen or know the builder u just know that such a structure as complex can not just come about by chance. Good.

A building and a man/woman (human) which is more complex (the brain) that can be left to chance more easily?

Ur answer is still also a function of who you are.
Peace

Man knows Nature was present before he came on the scene. Man knows of the secrets and principles/workings of the Universe. Man didn't create the principles behind a triangle, or the workings of motion, or centrifugal forces; rather man via intelligence was able to harness these to his BENEFITS.

In an empty world, intelligence is useless, omnipotence is everything.

Kay 17: Man knows Nature was present before he came on the scene. Man knows of the secrets and principles/workings of the Universe. Man didn't create the principles behind a triangle, or the workings of motion, or centrifugal forces; rather man via intelligence was able to harness these to his BENEFITS.

In an empty world, intelligence is useless, omnipotence is everything.

Has ur rational/intelligent brain told u that u have answered the question?

Well, intelligence is relative.

When u are ready u can answer this simple question.
Peace

Epic

fellis:
Thank you for being kind of objective in your post.
The only thing that I don't agree with is the bolded. Religion MIGHT be a causative factor in bringing down a country but it is not an exclusive cause. And it does not ensure it. Countries like Chile, Malaysia and Saudi Arabia that are religious have not being wrecked by religion. On the contrary, countries like France which are secular record the highest rates of intolerance towards religious diversity and Japan, another non-religious country has a suicide rate that is probably the highest on the planet.
I believe human nature is a major contributor.
I don't think any of the mainstream religions preach anything but good. It is when people practising them decide to twist the religious laws to suit their desires that religion appears to become problematic.
Atheist nations that appear peaceful at present, if given time might begin to lose their peaceful nature because without a divine authority, who defines what is good? Who defines right and wrong? Morality is a subjective thing and my own understanding of how humans should live would be completely opposite to what a person with a different background, different intelligence level and even different genetic code would think.

i didnt want to interfere until i saw this.

There is nothing good about religion, even they propagate no good, for example take the christian bible for example where it says that;
ladies should be killed if they're not virgin on their wedding day,
children should be beaten if they are rebellious and killed if they chose to worship another god, gays should be killed,
god condone/likes slavery
AND there is a part says;
Love your neighbour as yourself
You choosing the good ones and neglecting the bad ones is as a result of improvement in secular knowledge, (is you being sensible and logical to know enough that killing someone is bad, that love is better than hate not because one book written by god told you so) and as a result of scriptural ignorance.

If some countries are hostile to religion, i wouldnt blame them, Why? Because they know the implications of not doing so.

Please dont tell me you can live in all those countries you mentioned except maybe Malaysia (i think logicboy01 explained why malaysia is now developed).

What is Human Nature? What constitutes a human nature?
there is nothing like human nature when you're braiwashed right from childbirth,

Morality can be viewed objectively if you are ready to see the facts.
If morality is concerned about human well being, i think what constitues human well being consist of a wide range of specialties whic science can say something about. If you agree with me that there are wrong and right answers to some moral questions, you'll start seeing morals as an objective subject. Morals are not dictates or codes given to us by one skydaddy through his book full of contradictions
(lets save the details for another day).

Why wont countries with less religion be more intelligent? Because they put reason above faith, they are curious and ask questions and not other way arround. (If you read some of my previous post, you'd see one where i said people who are more secular(not superstitious or religious) tend to be more intelligent and successful than people who re not secular, showing the facts.)

i dont think there is a gene/genome responsible for your beliefs or some of your behaviour as far as what we know in genetics today, we can only say of meme.

ijawkid:

Evolution is rubbish...

Evolution won't make humans think of being charitable just as u aspire to be......

Ur professed ancestors never could do what u do......

Being human alone debunks evolution....

Go back to d bush and run naked and eat banana's if u believe in evolution....

If bill gates rili evolved from monkeys u think he'll be contributing billions to help less priviledged kids??

this is one of the reason why i think even Human beings dont have the same brain, seriously you keep talking/arguing/ranting about a subject you know nothing about.
Of course i wouldnt blame you, this is what we get in a country of failed education system, where religion has changed the science classroom curriculum.

logicboy01:


Load of nonsense. Where is your proof for God

the arguement is wack, she is talking about pascal wager

fridayiwere: Why are u wasting ur precious time arguing with dis unrepentant atheist? It a foolish thing trying to educate those who are happy to remain in their state of ignorance. Let him believes whatever he want to believe. After all, he was created a free moral agent. Sooner or later, he will realise that his limited by limitations to understand God who is unlimited by limitations.

what is the education? Who is ignorant here?

This is why I have a big problem with religion, it makes ignorance resilient in d face of facts. Someone posted d link on human development index and showed d correlation btw development and secularism yet that wasn't enough to convince some.

Religion tends to taint d morality of an otherwise rational mind. We cringe easily when we hear of or read about d murder or death of children, but we dont have problem with 43 children killed by bears unleashed by a "man of god".
Many suicide bombers kill themselves because they have d strong conviction dat they are saving themselves and they're loved ones a space in paradise ( because of a belief in d afterlife and d blessings confered upon d jihadist.)
Religion does more harm than good.