tintingz: Good job bro, buh i dont really support d sunni and shia tin, it some how create hatred to each other am not against it oh, i call myself a muslim i dont tagg sunni or shia to it cuz almighty Allah only call us Muslims.

LagosShia:
i have no doubt we are Muslims.and i also hope others do not hate because i love you all.
as for being a Shia,it does not conflict with being Muslim,but in fact is the essence of being Muslim.the Prophet (sa) called the loyal supporters of Imam Ali (as) "Shia of Ali".Almighty Allah (swt) in the Holy Quran called Ibrahim (as) a "Shia" (partisan/follower) of Noah (as).
please read these two articles:
"The Term "Shia" in Quran and Hadith":
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/13.html
"Is Being a Member of a Party ("shia" ) Forbidden in Islam?":
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/12.html

Cheers01: Hi, this is locigboy here with another account!


I debunked Tbaba on his Quranic coincidence and now you are coming here with you number miracles in the Quran?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/726362_Logicboy_png2569399df94f3a6303e6a4b457d33ce4

tintingz: thanks for that, what about the sunni, do they have their verses in the Quran that claim to be a branch?

LagosShia: @logicboy/Cheers01

you cannot debunk it.watch the video where Shabbir Ally gave a good explanation of why he believes in its (Quran numerology) significance.you cannot say you have destroyed another man's house because you came to make a replica of it.it just doesn't make sense especially when you take into consideration factors that existed and the complexity of the finding in the Quran and how wide ranging it is.

the way these things appear in the Quran is very difficult for anyone to believe they are coincidence or they were planned at a time where there was no computer to decode or program or take count (on many subjects) to fit the intended message.take for instance:in the Quran Jesus (as) is likened to Adam (as).both their names appear 25 times in the Quran.there are too many instances.and keep in mind this is only one aspect of how wonderful the Quran is in terms of wonderful signs and knowledge unknown to people back then.perhaps,even today there are still things we have not come to their realization yet contained in the Holy Quran.a few hundred years ago we did not have the knowledge we have now of the Quran.also,if not for the help computers give us to decode the codes and repetitions and mathematical formulas in the Holy Quran,we could have still being in the dark on these issues.

anyways,i do not intend to drift from the topic and argue.this topic in particular was made for my Sunni brothers.they preach about the Quran and how wonderful it is and want others to marvel at it while there is an aspect (imamate) that is part of the wonders we should also marvel at but they turn a blind eye on.what do you call that in all honesty?

Cheers01:


What if I could show you that some of these coincidences are not true?

LagosShia:

this is a big claim you have made which you are bound to fail.

but please do show me.

you can also prove to me that when the verses were being revealed and the words memorized and written,Muhammad (sa) was taking stock of how many times so many times appear and also writing codes on how to reveal certain verses and multiply them in a particular fashion.hmmmm.....wait a minute!!!! may Muhammad (sa) had a computer in the 7th century? that could be the reason for these "coincidences".but wait,isn't having a computer in the 7th century another miracle? or may Muhammad (sa) was just the best genius humanity have ever known?

please you really need to show me!!!i'm totally lost and confused!

Cheers01:

We are making the assumptions that the number of verses in the koran in Tbaba's computation is correct. What about the satanic verses? Were they added?


Have you personally counted the number of times that "days" are written in the Koran? Were words from the satanic verses used?


Sorry but, a skeptic always finds it hard to believe miracles

LagosShia:

you are really funny.i thought you got some intellectually sound trick or challenge to make.

i didn't expect you can be this ridiculous.


first,i believe in Quranic verses and not satanic verses.

secondly,i am Shia and in all our books of hadiths,the so called "satanic verses" known as "hadith al-gharaniq" is not found.it is only found in a sunni hadith book.

thirdly,sunnis themselves reject the hadith al-gharaniq.

fourthly,i'd present you with the analysis of a high ranking Shia scholar who examined that Sunni hadith and found it to be internally and externally contradictory and therefore false.

here:

(please see question 43 in the below link;scroll down on the left bar)

43. What is the Myth of Gharaniq or ‘The Satanic Verses’?
http://www.al-islam.org/180_questions_vol2/

Cheers01:


From what I read, the satanic verses were once in the Quran. Is that not true?

Also, I have read that different versions of the Quran have different numbering systems. Is that not true?

ymozay: i,m not in any way against this discovery,but its the same numerology that the submitters are using to confirm the messengerhood of rashad khaifa using quran 74:30(over it are 19),they came up with so many claim dat everything in the quran is a multiple of 19,building on this 19 theory to even remove the last 2 verses from suratul tauba,dt this last 2 verses were smuhgled in2 the quran after d death of d prophet,dey remove dis verses because if u dont remove this verses d 19 theory dont hold.they counted and manupulated so many things im d quran 4 19 theory 2 hold.

LagosShia:
no.



there are no versions of the Quran.there are translations.and even if the Quran is arranged in chronological order and not in recitation order starting with al-Fatiha,the number of words and verses in the Quran does not change.

besides,i only cited tbaba's thread to give a clear idea based on what i am talking.it is not meant to discuss tbaba's thread.

Cheers01:


Why are you lying about your religion? I give up. Information on satatnic verses is all over the internet. It is even well referenced on wikipedia, yet you lie.


While I am not sure about the numbering of the Quran, I would not be surprised if you're lying about it. I will find out.


Taqiyya is a shameful thing when Dawah is concerned.

Cheers01: Hi, this is locigboy here with another account!


I debunked Tbaba on his Quranic coincidence and now you are coming here with you number miracles in the Quran?

LagosShia:

logicboy,

for future reference let me post the below link of the thread you are being exposed:
https://www.nairaland.com/961370/when-simple-maths-trick-stop

it does not look like you even debunked tbaba and vedaxcool.i saw you could only come up with 10 chapters numbered from 1-10.even so,the argument there continues.please next time so that you sound credible do not make claims that everyone cannot observe.

the miraculous aspect in what tbaba presented is not the impossibility to use 5 days to come up with a smaller replica of 10 presumed chapters with their odd and even balance.it is coming up with 114 chapters with such a balance and doing that 1400 years ago,where even books in one piece did not exist.also these patterns existing in the Quran for you to ponder upon are numerous.

Cheers01:


Look, as a former christian, numerology is something we have thrown away in christiany. Been there, done that. Numerology is just a feeble attempt to justify the claim of the divine nature of holy books.


What if the people who numbered the koran had a reason to number the chapters and verses in a particular way? Furthermore, the fact that some chapters/verses are no more in the Quran renders most of your numerology wrong.

LagosShia:

please see picture attached below.

Cheers01:



Lol.....which version of the Quran did they use?

Also, unless the put the verses in which the words are mentioned so that we can check and count, I remain skeptical of these claims. Christianity has tried numerology years before islam.

LagosShia:
how many "versions" have you heard of and seen? ive told you there are no versions as there are bible versions.there are Quran translations and not versions.



you can do that yourself.no one is stopping you.and please do not derail my thread.from the beginning this thread isn't meant for non-muslims.so appreciate the tolerance shown to you.

Cheers01:
I am not derailing the thread if I am talking about the subject matter- Quran and numerology. Furthermore, dont you feel ashamed when you can out-rightly say that tolerance is something I should "appreciate" as if tolerance is special and should not be a normal thing in life. You never indicated that the thread was for muslims alone. Furthermore, in the original post you even talked about hyporcites (doubters). I am a doubter.

Quranic versions;
-Quran without satanic verses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Verses
-Quran with different numbering http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/numbers.html

LagosShia:
my friend,this thread was created with the obvious reason to engage Sunnis especially the ones who have being talking numerology.



the "satanic verses" is put to rest and a myth.

differnt numbering,like arranging the Quran chapters in the order of revelation and not recitation does not at all affect numerology and the number of times words are repeated and their significance.

The Satanic Verses incident is reported in the tafsir and the sira-maghazi literature dating from the first two centuries of Islam, and is reported in the respective tafsīr corpuses transmitted from almost every Qur'anic commentator of note in the first two centuries of the hijra. It seems to have constituted a standard element in the memory of the early Muslim community about the life of Muhammad.[2] The earliest biography of Muhammad, Ibn Ishaq (761-767) is lost but his collection of traditions survives mainly in two sources: Ibn Hisham (833) and al-Tabari (915). The story appears in al-Tabari, who includes Ibn Ishaq in the chain of transmission, but not in Ibn Hisham. Ibn Sa'd and Al-Waqidi, two other early biographers of Muhammad relate the story.[5] Scholars such as Uri Rubin and Shahab Ahmed and Guillaume hold that the report was in Ibn Ishaq, while Alford T. Welch holds the report has not been presumably present in the Ibn Ishaq.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Verses#In_early_Islam

Cheers01:


Different numberings and different translations render yor numerology invalid. The number of times a word appears can also be irrelevant as in Arabic, words can mean different things in different situations. Thanks to Hamza Tzortis and the wife beating quote in the Quran, I lerntthat.

LagosShia:

regardless of what a word means in any context,it appearance as a word is what counts in this our own context (numerology).we are not looking into meanings but count.it would do you better to take in regard the context when you talk about "wife beating" and when your likes attempt to twist Quranic words and their meanings.

Cheers01:


Look, at the end of the day, these Quranic miracles remain unproven, unless the verses that these words are mentioned are cite for everyone to count. Basic commonsense