Often i hear people give testimonies of how the life of a killer or a bank robber was transformed to that of a model citizen by religious conversion.
In one particular case, a friend of mine told me of this young man that killed his pregnant girlfriend and buried the body because he was not ready to become a father and she refused to do an abortion.
Some years later he gave his life to christ, found the father of the girl and confessed what he did to him. The father being a christian forgave him and all was well.
I told my friend that for all to be well the young man has to confess his crime to the State in order for the process of justice to run its course, that even if the father of the girl forgave him that ultimately the crime was committed against the State so he doesn't have the right to absolve him of the responsibility of that debt to society. My friend disagreed with, in his view there is no sin that the cleansing blood of Jesus can not make white and God being the ultimate judge if he forgives you there is no authority either in heaven or on earth that can challenge him.
I believe in what Jesus said about giving ceasar's stuff to ceasar and God's things to God, therefore i think the right thing for us to do as christians next time someone comes to the alter to give a disgusting testimony like this would be to demand for the arrest of that person.
How can someone claim to have genuinely repented from such heinous crimes if there is no effort to suffer a restorative penance? I fail to see how and that is why i think that all such testimonies true or false are from the devil, it doesn't edify us or strenghten our appreciation of God's justice in any way.

You are On Point and You Kinda Make Sense

ahhhh but you miss the main point. forgiveness of sin does not equate to forgetting of sin. your sins will be forgiven but you still have to pay for it. God will make sure you do.
galatians 6 vs 7 - Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows

genesis 9 vs 6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.

numbers 35 vs 33 'Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it.

see the mistake a lot of people make ? they equate forgiveness to being absolved.

dorox: Often i hear people give testimonies of how the life of a killer or a bank robber was transformed to that of a model citizen by religious conversion.
In one particular case, a friend of mine told me of this young man that killed his pregnant girlfriend and buried the body because he was not ready to become a father and she refused to do an abortion.
Some years later he gave his life to christ, found the father of the girl and confessed what he did to him. The father being a christian forgave him and all was well.
I told my friend that for all to be well the young man has to confess his crime to the State in order for the process of justice to run its course, that even if the father of the girl forgave him that ultimately the crime was committed against the State so he doesn't have the right to absolve him of the responsibility of that debt to society. My friend disagreed with, in his view there is no sin that the cleansing blood of Jesus can not make white and God being the ultimate judge if he forgives you there is no authority either in heaven or on earth that can challenge him.
I believe in what Jesus said about giving ceasar's stuff to ceasar and God's things to God, therefore i think the right thing for us to do as christians next time someone comes to the alter to give a disgusting testimony like this would be to demand for the arrest of that person.
How can someone claim to have genuinely repented from such heinous crimes if there is no effort to suffer a restorative penance? I fail to see how and that is why i think that all such testimonies true or false are from the devil, it doesn't edify us or strenghten our appreciation of God's justice in any way.

I agree, though GOD will and does forgive, the man has to report to the authorities for full justice to be extracted. If they release him then fine, but you are right, he still has some restitution to fulfil.

buzugee, the overall thrust of my argument aligns with what you said so i don't see how i could have missed the main point

dorox: buzugee, the overall thrust of my argument aligns with what you said so i don't see how i could have missed the main point

the point here is that the man will face the judge of the earth and not some man. i believe there were cases were Paul admonished the jews for going to courts and human officers when the jewish leaders who were aligned with the ways of God were there. these court systems are dens of iniquity who frame mischief by law, show favoritism and as real men of the lord shall you have fellowship with these den of iniquity ?

psalm 94 vs 20 Can wicked rulers be allied with you, those who frame injustice by statute?

isaiah 10 vs 1 Woe to those who enact evil statutes And to those who constantly record unjust decisions

james 2 vs 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers

are these the people you say he should submit too if he has genuinely repented ? i think he should wait for his justice from God. one thing he can be sure of, he will get murdered either in this life or the next. he who spills blood his will be spilt

buzugee: ahhhh but you miss the main point. forgiveness of sin does not equate to forgetting of sin. your sins will be forgiven but you still have to pay for it. God will make sure you do.
galatians 6 vs 7 - Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows

genesis 9 vs 6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.

numbers 35 vs 33 'Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it.

see the mistake a lot of people make ? they equate forgiveness to being absolved.

Lol...chei buzugee

Ur correct.....

Even when God forgives us we must reap or face d consequences of our actions.....

I have a cousin who had lived a promiscous life and now down with AIDS....

He feels going to church for deliverance and reading d bible everyday will cure him because he claims repentance....

But he forgot to read galatians 6:7...

God can really not be mocked....

Buzugee shake my hand.....

ijawkid:

Lol...chei buzugee

Ur correct.....

Even when God forgives us we must reap or face d consequences of our actions.....

I have a cousin who had lived a promiscous life and now down with AIDS....

He feels going to church for deliverance and reading d bible everyday will cure him because he claims repentance....

But he forgot to read galatians 6:7...

God can really not be mocked....

Buzugee shake my hand.....

Yeah all these folks think because they become 'born again' all is forgotten. oh yeah all is forgiven but you still pay for what you did. folks equating being forgiven with being absolved. Sorry about your cousin but you know they have found a cure for AIDS right ? or at least i think i read it somewhere. * shakes IJAWKIDS hands *

buzugee: the point here is that the man will face the judge of the earth and not some man. i believe there were cases were Paul admonished the jews for going to courts and human officers when the jewish leaders who were aligned with the ways of God were there. these court systems are dens of iniquity who frame mischief by law, show favoritism and as real men of the lord shall you have fellowship with these den of iniquity ?

psalm 94 vs 20 Can wicked rulers be allied with you, those who frame injustice by statute?

isaiah 10 vs 1 Woe to those who enact evil statutes And to those who constantly record unjust decisions

james 2 vs 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers

are these the people you say he should submit too if he has genuinely repented ? i think he should wait for his justice from God. one thing he can be sure of, he will get murdered either in this life or the next. he who spills blood his will be spilt

I find this submission heretic. How can you conclude that it is of no use adherring to the justice system of the land. Remember that Jesus in saying that we should give ceaser his due's already covered the aspect of justice system.
He himself had his life taken through this same corrupt justice system.
Once the judgement had been passed wether rightly or wrongly we learnt to submit despite being able to revoke such pronouncement he made us understand that as far as we are still alive in this crooked and perverted world we must not only acknowledge but also submit totally to the laws of the land.

Guitarlife: I find this submission heretic. How can you conclude that it is of no use adherring to the justice system of the land. Remember that Jesus in saying that we should give ceaser his due's already covered the aspect of justice system.
He himself had his life taken through this same corrupt justice system.
Once the judgement had been passed wether rightly or wrongly we learnt to submit despite being able to revoke such pronouncement he made us understand that as far as we are still alive in this crooked and perverted world we must not only acknowledge but also submit totally to the laws of the land.

1 corinthians 6
If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

buzugee:
1 corinthians 6
If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

hey man, stop this parambulation. I've seen you around here long enough and I sure know just how spiritualy enlightened you are.
I might as well take your refusal to do a deductive analysis on this subject as a sign of acceptance that you initially made an error of judgement.
Now seriously, That passage only encourage's us to as good christian's understand that we are a shinning example to the world at large knowing this we strive to not only present ourselve's as brother's but also send a message of unity amidst the brethren.
Therefore, it does not in anyway encourage us to conceal out flaws or to flagrantly abuse the law.
What I'm I even saying even our lord Jesus Christ like a sheep led to the altar was condemned under this our corrupt justice system.
Even when Peter had an error of judgement like you are doing now and sought to adjucate as a brethren by carrying out an act tantamount to subjucating the justice system,
Jesus rebuked him and even performed a miracle at that point to drive home gis point by gumming back the soldiers ear.
With this your argument I believe you will support so called men of God who can't manage to adhere to the noise decibel level stipulated in Lagos for religious house right?
And it's because they are super human who cannot be judged by mere mortal's ehn?
Pray, tell those 'brethren' you are wont to run to as adjudicator's are they immune to sin or have they been raptured or what?
And why would you expressly condemn all the actors in the legal system like they are all corrupt?
Don't we have some judges who are christians? Some are even pastors for crying out loud.
Please stop misleading countless soul's some who because they have found respite in your posts here at a point or another might find it difficult to disapprove some fictitious doctrine's like this one.

Guitarlife: hey man, stop this parambulation. I've seen you around here long enough and I sure know just how spiritualy enlightened you are.
I might as well take your refusal to do a deductive analysis on this subject as a sign of acceptance that you initially made an error of judgement.
Now seriously, That passage only encourage's us to as good christian's understand that we are a shinning example to the world at large knowing this we strive to not only present ourselve's as brother's but also send a message of unity amidst the brethren.
Therefore, it does not in anyway encourage us to conceal out flaws or to flagrantly abuse the law.
What I'm I even saying even our lord Jesus Christ like a sheep led to the altar was condemned under this our corrupt justice system.
Even when Peter had an error of judgement like you are doing now and sought to adjucate as a brethren by carrying out an act tantamount to subjucating the justice system,
Jesus rebuked him and even performed a miracle at that point to drive home gis point by gumming back the soldiers ear.
With this your argument I believe you will support so called men of God who can't manage to adhere to the noise decibel level stipulated in Lagos for religious house right?
And it's because they are super human who cannot be judged by mere mortal's ehn?
Pray, tell those 'brethren' you are wont to run to as adjudicator's are they immune to sin or have they been raptured or what?
And why would you expressly condemn all the actors in the legal system like they are all corrupt?
Don't we have some judges who are christians? Some are even pastors for crying out loud.
Please stop misleading countless soul's some who because they have found respite in your posts here at a point or another might find it difficult to disapprove some fictitious doctrine's like this one.

Brother, you dont seem to understand the big issue at hand here. the big issue here is that the whole world is corrupt. the world is under the power of the evil one 1 john 5 vs 19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

the whole world has been handed over to satanic spirits to control for a while as punishment to the israelites job 9 vs 24

as such there are no righteous christian judges or pastors. there is no such thing as a righteous judge. these are judges who operate in the gentile world we now live in. for them to take up such positions means they are not of the lord. psalms 94 vs 20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law? ok so these are thrones of iniquity. if you are for the lord you cannot be a judge in this gentile world. you wait till the kingdom of God is established on earth and then if you are one of the elect, you get to be part of the 144,000 judges and rulers along with christ. its like being a prostitute and then saying you are a decent person. its just not possible. scripture says in job 14 vs 4 can anyone pull out anything clean from an unclean thing ? its impossible. you get in the mud with pigs, sooner or later you are going to get dirty. so back to the point...the person who committed the crime if they want to hand themselves to the authority, its up to them but the person will still recieve his judgement from God. so if he is comfortable paying for the crime twice, then go ahead. like the person said, her father is a man of God and this guy has become a man of God, and he went to confess to the father, and the father forgives him. thats the end of the matter. now he has to wait for his punishment from God. he did not sin against the state. he sinned against his own soul. now if the state catch you in the middle of killing someone, then they are obligated to charge you. however this issue has been settled between two men of God. 1 corinthians 6 vs 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

Seem's like you have a point you so desperately seek to pass across but in doing this you have ultimately forgotten that the creator of this thread also need's an answer.
I agree with you on the part that this world stinks and so does it's justice system.
My argument however, is that our lord Jesus christ never undermined it like you are making it out to be.
It was both corrupt and bereft too when Jesus subjected himself to it.
I'm sorry I can't search it out for you but you sure know about bible passages like giving to ceaser what is his and also those like power can only come from Gos.
Without mincing word's You as a person cannot park your car in the middle of a major highway can you?
Despite the fact that all earth is the lord and the fullness thereof.
The reason you can't do that is beacause a sheriff or a governor who is most likely a sinner has mandated you not to.
So, why do you heed this sinner's why don't you just go against them and park you car in the middle of the highway.
Atleast the bible does not say we shouldn't.
Man, you yourself are neckdeep in obeying this heathen's and your actions are not at all misplaced.
The bible commands us to submit to the ruler's in authority.
I have said so many incoherent thing's but I trust you to get my drift.

Guitarlife: Seem's like you have a point you so desperately seek to pass across but in doing this you have ultimately forgotten that the creator of this thread also need's an answer.
I agree with you on the part that this world stinks and so does it's justice system.
My argument however, is that our lord Jesus christ never undermined it like you are making it out to be.
It was both corrupt and bereft too when Jesus subjected himself to it.
I'm sorry I can't search it out for you but you sure know about bible passages like giving to ceaser what is his and also those like power can only come from Gos.
Without mincing word's You as a person cannot park your car in the middle of a major highway can you?
Despite the fact that all earth is the lord and the fullness thereof.
The reason you can't do that is beacause a sheriff or a governor who is most likely a sinner has mandated you not to.
So, why do you heed this sinner's why don't you just go against them and park you car in the middle of the highway.
Atleast the bible does not say we shouldn't.
Man, you yourself are neckdeep in obeying this heathen's and your actions are not at all misplaced.
The bible commands us to submit to the ruler's in authority.
I have said so many incoherent thing's but I trust you to get my drift.

i get your drift but you are drifting the wrong way. lol. you should respect the laws. of course. i never said you should not. you should subject yourself under the authority and governorship of the ruling people where you live. this is biblical. i am not asking you to go out and break and flout laws. i am not asking you to go and park in illegal parking spots. this case here is a case of a different nature. i am assuming this person does not live in the west because in the west they are vested in continuing slavery through their jail system. they have you make all kinds of products for like 50 cents a day and then sell it off at 1000 dollars a day. ok so the jail business is huge business in america. they are not interested in rehabilitating you. they are only interested in exploiting you. so under this system they will make sure you are caught and they will give you like 400 years in jail. so in a system like this, you can never escape the law. you dont have to surrender yourself. they will come find you. however if this case is in africa, nobody cares. the jails are full. they dont have the money to feed you in jail. they are not going to bother investigating you let alone jailing you. millions of people die in africa everyday and life goes on. in africa, in a weird kind of way, we practice biblical justice. we let the lord put his punishment on you when he is ready ( and trust me he will ). so my point is that you are viwing this situation from a western point of view ( jailing everything that moves so you can make a profit ). in africa, it does not work that way. you dont go to jail to get rehabilitated or punished. as such it is pointless. let the man wait for his justice from God. he has already done a brave thing. he admitted to her father. and then he turned his life around. even the darlings of the lord MOSES, KING DAVID AND PAUL were murderers. so my point is STOP PLAYING JUDGE JURY AND EXECUTIONER. STOP TRYING TO DO THE LORDS WORK FOR HIM. HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. MANS STEPS ARE DIRECTED BY THE LORD. surely soon enough he willl direct his steps to where he will recieve his punishment ( PROVERBS 20 VS 24 )

NB- i am assuming this case happened in nigeria. not in the west. my answer is based on if this happened in nigeria which i think it did because in the west he would have been arrested immediately. see in the west they run a feudal system so your whole life belongs to the state. as such even if you sneeze you have to report yourself to the state. in africa we dont have this system so we are not subject to the state. you report yourself to the state at your own discretion. if you dont report yourself to the state you are not breaking any laws.

buzugee: i get your drift but you are drifting the wrong way. lol. you should respect the laws. of course. i never said you should not. you should subject yourself under the authority and governorship of the ruling people where you live. this is biblical. i am not asking you to go out and break and flout laws. i am not asking you to go and park in illegal parking spots. this case here is a case of a different nature. i am assuming this person does not live in the west because in the west they are vested in continuing slavery through their jail system. they have you make all kinds of products for like 50 cents a day and then sell it off at 1000 dollars a day. ok so the jail business is huge business in america. they are not interested in rehabilitating you. they are only interested in exploiting you. so under this system they will make sure you are caught and they will give you like 400 years in jail. so in a system like this, you can never escape the law. you dont have to surrender yourself. they will come find you. however if this case is in africa, nobody cares. the jails are full. they dont have the money to feed you in jail. they are not going to bother investigating you let alone jailing you. millions of people die in africa everyday and life goes on. in africa, in a weird kind of way, we practice biblical justice. we let the lord put his punishment on you when he is ready ( and trust me he will ). so my point is that you are viwing this situation from a western point of view ( jailing everything that moves so you can make a profit ). in africa, it does not work that way. you dont go to jail to get rehabilitated or punished. as such it is pointless. let the man wait for his justice from God. he has already done a brave thing. he admitted to her father. and then he turned his life around. even the darlings of the lord MOSES, KING DAVID AND PAUL were murderers. so my point is STOP PLAYING JUDGE JURY AND EXECUTIONER. STOP TRYING TO DO THE LORDS WORK FOR HIM. HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING. MANS STEPS ARE DIRECTED BY THE LORD. surely soon enough he willl direct his steps to where he will recieve his punishment ( PROVERBS 20 VS 24 )

NB- i am assuming this case happened in nigeria. not in the west. my answer is based on if this happened in nigeria which i think it did because in the west he would have been arrested immediately. see in the west they run a feudal system so your whole life belongs to the state. as such even if you sneeze you have to report yourself to the state. in africa we dont have this system so we are not subject to the state. you report yourself to the state at your own discretion. if you dont report yourself to the state you are not breaking any laws.

This make's sense so why didn't you state it like this earlier huh? Lol.
God bless you jare.

Thier was this man who confess to be a trained assasin in Gabon and France and 2 his credit he has killed over 78 people in and out of nigeria and testify to be a change man i wonder what kind of punishment befit him

Guitarlife: This make's sense so why didn't you state it like this earlier huh? Lol.
God bless you jare.

Bruh, i was assuming you have lived in Nigeria before and are familiar with the system. every man is his own govt in nigeria. you pump your own water and generate your own light and fix your own roads. every man is his own govt. complete autonomy you can kill and no one will bother you so long as you dont do it openly in which case you will get lynched by the public. jungle justice. home of the brave land of the insane

dorox: buzugee, the overall thrust of my argument aligns with what you said so i don't see how i could have missed the main point

my main man dorox, we are saying the same thing. you are right. he deserves restorative penance. he will get it from God. not from man. especially not in nigeria. but you know if you take this position that you have taken you will scare many people from coming to make testimony in church. like one minute you are making testimony and the next minute you are been thrown into the back of a van by mopol not good church bidness my brethren