so that we are not accused of "evading" the topic or "derailing" his thread i have opened this thread for Vedaxcool to answer this post below by LagosShia:

LagosShia: ^

whatever my son.

you should stop preaching and start acting.do not be an hypocrite.the 12 Imams can be proven through prophecy from the Prophet (sa) and one Imam prophesying about the coming ones among their offsprings,and also through their lives and records of their lives even found in Sunni books.

you that can identify your Imam,can you tell us who is your Imam today? you must have an imam because this is what we read in Sunni hadith:

Prophet Muhammad (sa) said:"Whosoever dies without knowing the Imam of his time dies the death of the Jahiliyyah."
(Ahmad b. Hanbal, al-Musnad, p. 96).

[u]Vedaxcool,who is "the imam of the time" that you recognize and Sunnis reocgnize?[/u]if you cannot answer and i am sure you will not be able to answer,then know that you will die the death of a jahil.

second slap i would give to Vedaxcool is also found in Sunni hadith;in fact in the most important book of Sunni hadiths.

"SAHIH BUKHARI":

Volume 9, Book 89, Number 329:
Narrated Jabir bin Samura:

I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."


Vedaxcool,Sunnis have over 30 caliphs (successors),and the Prophet (sa) said there would be 12 successors.who are these 12 successors and how did you know them (not that you will ever know them being Sunni)?

https://www.nairaland.com/979588/indecent-exposure-hiding-imam-confusion#11329358

more from Sunni sources on the importance of knowing your Imam of the time:

1.) Sahih Muslim , Hadith 1850:
"Whosoever dies while he does not have on his neck a pledge of allegiance dies the death of Jahiliyyah"

2.) Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, vol. 28, p. 88, Number 16876 (Muasassat al-Risalah) records:
"Allah’s Apostle said: “Whosoever dies without an Imam dies the death of Jahiliyyah (i.e. a pagan death).”

3.) Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, vol. 10, p. 434 (Muasassat al-Risalah, ed. Shaykh Shua’yb al-Arnaut) also records:
"Allah’s Apostle said: Whosoever dies while he does not have an Imam over him dies the death of Jahiliyyah".

the Prophet (peace be upon him) said – as related by `Abd Allah b. `Umar – “Whoever dies without being bound by the oath of allegiance (bay`ah), dies the death of the time of ignorance.” [Sahîh Muslim (1851)]

When there is a legitimate head of state for the Muslims (imam) who is recognized by Islamic Law, then it is not permissible to a Muslim to refrain from recognizing him. This is what the hadîth means.

When Imam Ahmad was asked about the meaning of this hadîth, he replied: “Do you know what an imam is? The imam is the one around whom the Muslims are united. All of them say that he is the imam, and this is what it means.” [This statement was related by Muhammad b. Ishâq in his Masâ’il (2/185) and by al-Khallâl in al-Imân]

This oath of allegiance (bay`ah) is directly incumbent upon the leaders of the Muslim community (ahl al-hall wa al-`aqd) and must be given on the authority of the Qur’ân and Sunnah according to the conditions set forth in Islamic Law. As far as the general public is concerned, most scholars agree that the pledge of allegiance given by their community leaders will suffice them, so it is not necessary for every single individual to do so. This is what Abû Ya`lâ says in his work al-Mu`tamad (p. 254) and in his al-Ahkâm al-Sultâniyyah (p. 27). It is also the opinion stated by al-Mâwardî in his book by the same name (p. 15).

Even though the individual in this case does not give the oath of allegiance directly, he is bound by it. He is required to obey in all matters that do not entail disobedience to Allah.

Under circumstances where there is no imam as defined by Islamic Law, or where allegiance is demanded on something other than the Qur’ân and Sunnah, then it is not permissible to offer the oath of allegiance. This is clear from the following hadîth related by Hudhayfah b. al-Yamân:

Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “There are those who invite from the gates of Hell, and anyone who accepts their invitation will be cast therein.”

I said: “O Messenger of Allah, describe them to us.”

He said: “They are people from our own country who speak our language.”

I asked: “So what do you bid me to do if I come across them?”

He said: “Stay with the community of Muslims and their imam. If the Muslims have no community and no imam, then turn away from all of those sects, even if means you having to adhere to the trunk of a tree until death overtakes you.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim]

The point of this is that the oath of allegiance (bay`ah) is not obligatory except when the conditions for it are met – like the existence of a recognized imam for the Muslims – and in the absence of factors that legally prevent it from being obligatory. However, it does not matter, with respect to the obligation of offering one's allegiance, if the imam exhibits sinful or oppressive qualities.

The hadîth does not mean, as the questioner seems to have understood, that a person must give his allegiance to anybody, no matter who they are, in order to avoid the negative consequences mentioned in the hadîth.

The proof for this is that the narrator of the hadîth, Ibn `Umar – who knew its meaning better than anyone and was very committed to putting it into practice – went for a period of time without giving his oath of allegiance to anyone.

The first time he refrained from offering his oath of allgiance was during the period of disagreement between `Alî and Mu`âwiyah. He remained in this way until Mu`âwiyah made peace with al-Hasan and the people gave their oath of allegiance to him. He then gave his oath of allegiance to Yazîd after the death of his father Mu`âwiyah, because the people had united around him.

He again refrained from giving an oath of allegiance to anyone during the disagreement that followed until Ibn Zubayr was killed. When the government was again united under `Abd al-Malik b. Marwân, Ibn `Umar again offered his oath of allegiance. [Refer to Fath al-Bârî (13/195) and al-Bidâyah wa al-Nihâyah (3/30)]

The matter is further explained by the hadith:

Imam Muslim (Rahimahullah) has related in his Sahih (3/4553) a Hadith on the authority of Hudhaifa ibn al-Yaman (Allah be pleased with him), who said:

"People used to ask the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) about the good times, but I used to ask him about (the) bad times fearing lest they overtake me. I said, 'Messenger of Allah, we were in the midst of ignorance and evil, and then Allah brought us this good (time through Islam). Is there any bad time after this good one?' He said, 'Yes'. I asked, 'Will there be a good time again after that bad time?' He said, 'Yes, but therein will be a hidden evil.' I asked, 'What will be the evil hidden therein?' He said, '(That time will witness the rise of) the people who will adopt ways other than mine and seek guidance other than mine. You will know good points as well as bad points.' I asked, 'Will there be a bad time after this good one?' He said, 'Yes. (A time will come) when there will be people standing and inviting at the gates of Hell. Whoso responds to their call, they will throw them into the fire.' I said, 'Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), describe them for us.' He said, 'All right. They will be a people having the same complexion as ours and speaking our language.' I said, `Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), what do you suggest if I happen to live in their time?' He said, 'You should stick to the main body of the Muslims and their leader' I said, 'If they have no (such thing as the) main body of the Muslims and have no leader?' He said, 'Separate yourself from all these factions, though you may have to eat the roots of trees until death comes to you and you are in this state.'"


In Nigeria we recognise the Sultan Sokoto to be the leader of Muslims in the country, different location regard different people to be their leader w.r.t to matters pertaining religion and as the quote explains, the hadith is applicable only when the conditions for its application are met.

When Imam Ahmad was asked about the meaning of this hadîth, he replied: “Do you know what an imam is? The imam is the one around whom the Muslims are united. All of them say that he is the imam, and this is what it means.” [This statement was related by Muhammad b. Ishâq in his Masâ’il (2/185) and by al-Khallâl in al-Imân]

It remains funny that you all rushed in frustration to start this thread, looking for a way while Imam Hiding is just hiding not even providing tangible evidence to advance you case, like I do say lols and lmaos seems appropriate!

Please watch the below video (its 4 minutes and 36 seconds).a real life experience on how a Muslim must have an "imam of the time":

http://youtube.ng/watch?v=O_ydHL1d66A

How to Pledge Allegiance to the Imam of the Time,the 12th Imam (aj),Imam Muhammad Ibn al-Hassan,al-Mahdi (aj)-Ziyarat al-Ahd (Visitation/Dua of Allegiance):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXzsr-Eeq_o



Here is the the text of the pledge which can be recited daily preferably after fajr salat.the translation is also in the link:

http://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2893&Itemid=474

Imam Ja'far Ibn Muhammad,as-Sadiq,the sixth holy Imam (as) said “Anyone who sends peace to Prophet Muhammad and his descendants after saying his prayers, won’t die before seeing and recognizing Imam Mahdi.”

"send peace upon Muhammad (sa) and his descendants (as)"=durood

durood="Allahumma Solli Ala Muhammad Wa Allee Muhammad"....

"Only those who have their Imam's Understanding (Maarifat) and their Imam also knows them will enter heaven. Only those who will be dumped in hell, those who dont understand their Imam, Neither does their Imam understands them"-Imam Ali (as).
Ref.:Nahjul Balagha - Sermon 150

Imam Musa al-Kazim (a.s.),the seventh holy Imam, says:

"Blessed are those of our Shias who during the occultation of our Qaim remain attached to our Wilayat (guardianship) and who are steadfast in devotion for us, who have declared immunity from our enemies. They are from us and we are from them. And indeed they have preferred us for Imamate and we have also selected them as our followers (Shia). Congratulations to them and blessed be they (Shias). By Allah, on the Day of Judgment they shall be in our grades."

Kamaluddin; Shaykh Saduq; Vol. 2/361

[size=14pt]Dua al-Faraj (Supplication for the Hastening of the Reappearance of Imam Mahdi-ajtfs)[/size]

(with english subtitles)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9aTvoiMvR8

vedaxcool:


The matter is further explained by the hadith:

Imam Muslim (Rahimahullah) has related in his Sahih (3/4553) a Hadith on the authority of Hudhaifa ibn al-Yaman (Allah be pleased with him), who said:

"People used to ask the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) about the good times, but I used to ask him about (the) bad times fearing lest they overtake me. I said, 'Messenger of Allah, we were in the midst of ignorance and evil, and then Allah brought us this good (time through Islam). Is there any bad time after this good one?' He said, 'Yes'. I asked, 'Will there be a good time again after that bad time?' He said, 'Yes, but therein will be a hidden evil.' I asked, 'What will be the evil hidden therein?' He said, '(That time will witness the rise of) the people who will adopt ways other than mine and seek guidance other than mine. You will know good points as well as bad points.' I asked, 'Will there be a bad time after this good one?' He said, 'Yes. (A time will come) when there will be people standing and inviting at the gates of Hell. Whoso responds to their call, they will throw them into the fire.' I said, 'Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), describe them for us.' He said, 'All right. They will be a people having the same complexion as ours and speaking our language.' I said, `Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), what do you suggest if I happen to live in their time?' He said, 'You should stick to the main body of the Muslims and their leader' I said, 'If they have no (such thing as the) main body of the Muslims and have no leader?' He said, 'Separate yourself from all these factions, though you may have to eat the roots of trees until death comes to you and you are in this state.'"


In Nigeria we recognise the Sultan Sokoto to be the leader of Muslims in the country, different location regard different people to be their leader w.r.t to matters pertaining religion and as the quote explains, the hadith is applicable only when the conditions for its application are met.

When Imam Ahmad was asked about the meaning of this hadîth, he replied: “Do you know what an imam is? The imam is the one around whom the Muslims are united. All of them say that he is the imam, and this is what it means.” [This statement was related by Muhammad b. Ishâq in his Masâ’il (2/185) and by al-Khallâl in al-Imân]

It remains funny that you all rushed in frustration to start this thread, looking for a way while Imam Hiding is just hiding not even providing tangible evidence to advance you case, like I do say lols and lmaos seems appropriate!

The question remains who is the imam of the time for sunnis?where is the sunni caliphate that ended with the ottoman empire's demise? This is a classical example of what the holy Quran describes as 'truth has come and falsehood has vanished for falsehood is bound to vanish by its nature'.

Also what or who is considered/constitute an imam? Does the sultan of sokoto who inherited the thrown be considered an imam? Is monarchy islamic? Do the majority of muslims or even sunnis consider Vedaxcool's imam in sokoto to be their leader? What makes him the leader and says who? Have muslims in nigeria paid allegiance to him?the hot slap in Vedaxcool lying mouth is a big NO!do nigerian muslims obey Vedaxcool sultan's imamate?if not then what makes him Vedaxcool's imam? How many 'imams' do sunnis have? Who among them is the caliph or successor of the Prophet? No one? The obvious fact is sunnis religious-wise have no 'imam'.they are like a flock without shepherd.the Prophet (sa) clearly stated there is an imam of the time.he said 'the' imam of the time and not 'an' imam or any imam.

One more nail into the coffin from the past:
1.) Sayyida Fatima (as) who is considered a righteous and pious part of the Prophet (sa) died without recognizing the first sunni caliph,abu bakr,as her imam.was she (astagfirullah) misguided?

2.) Imam Hussain (as),righteous and pious part of Prophet Muhammad (sa) revolted against yazeed after the majority of lazy and misguided muslims bowed their heads in humiliation.Imam
Hussain (as) still did not recognize yazeed as his imam.in the view of sunnis was Imam Hussain (as) a 'jahil" (astagfirullah)?

3.) Both aisha and muawiya loved by sunnis and they are treacherous and controversial rose and fought Imam Ali (as) when he was accepted by all muslims as caliph.did they die the death of jahiliyyah or not?

And mallam Vedaxcool have not told us who his 12 successors are.

You can quote silly words you see as hadith to label others as misguided while you are so obviously dogmatic and blind.I won't pray that Allah should guide you because you are deliberately and shamelessly dishonest.so may Allah raise you in the company of those you consider as your 'imams',the likes of yazeed and his fellow monarchs in the sunni world.

If the matter is as simple as knowing who the local leader of muslims is by whatever merit or means,then the Prophet (s) would have said :'he who does not recognize the imam of the muslims (I.e. The majority in a place) before his death has died the death of jahiliyyah'.but that isn't what he said.he said anyone who doesn't know the imam of the time (not the imam of muslims but of the time) has died the death of jahiliyyah.there can be many imams of different places but only one imam of the time.the point is if sunnis live in an era,they as a body must have an imam of the time.time is one and the same even if people differ and live in distant lands.the fact that nigerian sunnis have the sultan of sokoto as their leader (and not all nigerians accept him as such) and chinese sunnis may have their own leader if at all,shows there is no imam of the time for all sunnis but pseudo imams of different places.so between the different imams of different places who among them is not a localized imam of a place but a universal imam of the time?it is about time not place.and the Prophet (sa) didn't say imam of the town or place but of the time.time is one,uniform and encompassing.therefore whether in japan or kenya,there must be one imam of the year 2012 and not an imam of a place.otherwise how many imams would sunnis have in one year?if the Prophet (sa) was for all places and time,then who is this imam of the time for all places?obviously by Vedaxcool's smartness only few among sunnis could follow the imam of the time instead of their place because they are fragmented and no leadership to unite them as the time they're living in covers them all.

Imam Muslim (Rahimahullah) has related in his Sahih (3/4553) a Hadith on the authority of Hudhaifa ibn al-Yaman (Allah be pleased with him), who said:

"People used to ask the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) about the good times, but I used to ask him about (the) bad times fearing lest they overtake me. I said, 'Messenger of Allah, we were in the midst of ignorance and evil, and then Allah brought us this good (time through Islam). Is there any bad time after this good one?' He said, 'Yes'. I asked, 'Will there be a good time again after that bad time?' He said, 'Yes, but therein will be a hidden evil.' I asked, 'What will be the evil hidden therein?' He said, '(That time will witness the rise of) the people who will adopt ways other than mine and seek guidance other than mine. You will know good points as well as bad points.' I asked, 'Will there be a bad time after this good one?' He said, 'Yes. (A time will come) when there will be people standing and inviting at the gates of Hell. Whoso responds to their call, they will throw them into the fire.' I said, 'Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), describe them for us.' He said, 'All right. They will be a people having the same complexion as ours and speaking our language.' I said, `Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), what do you suggest if I happen to live in their time?' He said, 'You should stick to the main body of the Muslims and their leader' I said, 'If they have no (such thing as the) main body of the Muslims and have no leader?' He said, 'Separate yourself from all these factions, though you may have to eat the roots of trees until death comes to you and you are in this state.'"

When Imam Ahmad was asked about the meaning of this hadîth, he replied: “Do you know what an imam is? The imam is the one around whom the Muslims are united. All of them say that he is the imam, and this is what it means.” [This statement was related by Muhammad b. Ishâq in his Masâ’il (2/185) and by al-Khallâl in al-Imân]

Here you are loving them but they are not loving you, while you believe in the Scripture - all of it. And when they meet you, they say, "We believe." But when they are alone, they bite their fingertips at you in rage. Say, "Die in your rage. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of that within the breasts." 3: 119

a word is indeed enough for the wise but will the fools pay heed?

Usually I know that it is the shahada that makes one a muslim and without it one would die a kaffir.what is so important in the imam of time that not knowing him would lead to a death of jahiliyya? Isn't therefore this imam of the time someone pure,knowledgeable and full of guidance? Can the rule of tyrants,monarchs and corrupt politicians give salvation if you recognize them? Or would it further lead you into misguidance and all the way to hell fire? What if you oppose the ruler because of corruption and tyranny,would you go to hell because you stand against and does recognize him as leader (imam)? Can the imam of the period (time) for muslims be someone people agree on and disagree?then everyone is the imam because you can decide who to give power and who not to.that is democracy and not Islam where rule belongs to Allah and government or leadership is by Allah,of Allah's chosen and by Allah.if imam of the time is anyone,then anyone you can see and call imam even the ones with no knowledge?an imam therefore is guidance just like the Quran is guidance and revelations of Allah in the Quran are referred to as 'imam' figuratively.the imam the Prophet (s) referring to is no different from the one (Imam Ali) he appointed in Ghadir Khumm for muslims of that time.in Hadith of the Two Weighty Things,the Ahlul-Bayt (as) among whom are the 12 Imams (a) is one of the Two and the Quran is the other.

similarly in the holy Quran there are the verse of wilayah and the verse of ulil-amr.the verse of wilayah establishes the leadership of the first imam,Imam Ali (a) while the verse of the ulil-amr establishes the leadership of the 12 Imams (a).may Allah Ta'ala hasten the faraj (reappearance) of the 12th Imam from the progeny of our Prophet Muhammad (sa) to guide us,bring justice to the earth for humanity,peace and destroy the tyranny of false leaders and monarchs who do not know him and Islam would be firmly established in all corners of the earth.ameen.