Can Allah create a rock so big that he can not move?


You might say that this is not a difficult question but lets examine the implications of the answers;


-Yes, he can create the rock. But then, he would not be omnipotent because he can not move the rock.
-No, he can not create the rock. But then, he would not be omnipotent because he cant create the rock.

Cheers01: Can Allah create a rock so big that he can not move?


You might say that this is not a difficult question but lets examine the implications of the answers;


-Yes, he can create the rock. But then, he would not be omnipotent because he can not move the rock.
-No, he can not create the rock. But then, he would not be omnipotent because he cant create the rock.

the created is not greater than the Creator.therefore it is part of God's infinite power and knowledge that He does not create what He cannot control.this is not weakness but strength.

you are looking at it from one point:power.but there is also the issue of will,wisdom and knowledge and all power belongs to God Almighty.so God being omniscient would not even create to start with what would make the created an obstacle to the Creator.that still leaves Him omniscient and omnipotent because there is nothing that would be an obstacle to Him and no one that can even make such a creation since He is the Creator and everything belongs to Him.

so matter how big the rock is,it is subjected to and under God's control.this cannot be seen as lack of power but part of the greatness of God Almighty.

LagosShia:

the created is not greater than the Creator.therefore it is part of God's infinite power and knowledge that He does not create what He cannot control.this is not weakness but strength.

you are looking at it from one point:power.but there is also the issue of will,wisdom and knowledge and all power belongs to God Almighty.so God being omniscient would not even create to start with what would make the created an obstacle to the Creator.that still leaves Him omniscient and omnipotent because there is nothing that would be an obstacle to Him and no one that can even make such a creation since He is the Creator and everything belongs to Him.

so matter how big the rock is,it is subjected to and under God's control.this cannot be seen as lack of power but part of the greatness of God Almighty.

Good answer. Unfotunately, not good enough.

If an omniscient God could create a Shaitan/shaytan that is an obstacle to his beloved creations (humans), there is nothing stopping from creating an obstacle that is a rock.


Either Allah can create such a rock or he cant.

Oh dear! Is this boy ok?

Cheers01:


Good answer. Unfotunately, not good enough.

If an omniscient God could create a Shaitan/shaytan that is an obstacle to his beloved creations (humans), there is nothing stopping from creating an obstacle that is a rock.


Either Allah can create such a rock or he cant.

so how does satan being an "obstacle" to creatures equate with you finding something to be an "obstacle" to God?

satan is no obstacle to God and not even to those who obey God because this is what the Holy Quran says:

Holy Quran 15:42
"My servants – you shall have no authority over any of them, unless it be such as follow you being rebellious (against Me, as you are). "

LagosShia:

so how does satan being an "obstacle" to creatures equate with you finding something to be an "obstacle" to God?

satan is no obstacle to God and not even to those who obey God because this is what the Holy Quran says:

Holy Quran 15:42
"My servants – you shall have no authority over any of them, unless it be such as follow you being rebellious (against Me, as you are). "

Whatever. Can God make such a rock or not?



As for Surah 15;42, most people in the world (over 66%) do not accept/believe in Allah. Satan must have quite a control.

Cheers01:


Whatever. Can God make such a rock or not?



As for Surah 15;42, most people in the world (over 66%) do not accept/believe in Allah. Satan must have quite a control.

ok.me too whatever.

LagosShia:

ok.me too whatever.

Calm down. No one is attacking you or your religion. I was just asking a philosophical question. Please, ask your muslim friends this question as well

maclatunji: Oh dear! Is this boy ok?

Why do you hate me?

Cheers01:

Calm down. No one is attacking you or your religion. I was just asking a philosophical question. Please, ask your muslim friends this question as well

there is no need to calm down because im not annoyed or angry.you said 'whatever' so i also said 'whatever'.or were you angry with my reply?

your 'philosophical question' is the zenith of stupidity.i know atheists would feel this is a big catch.but it is utterly stupid

let me give you an instance to make it clear for you to understand what i was trying to say:

there is a sprinter who is the fastest man in the entire world with a world time record.an atheist puts a challenge to him.

the atheists asks him to form a fastest or faster time record he cannot break.if he forms the record he cannot break,it means he is not the fastest man in the world.and if he does not form the record he cannot break it means he is not the fastest man in the world.

this is similar to your 'difficult question'.when you understand that you cannot challenge God Almighty, as a small creature in a wide universe then you will believe in His omnipotence.you cannot use His own power to challenge His own power.it doesnt make sense.the best you can do is to 'find' another 'god' that can create a rock so big that He,the Almighty God,cannot move.then you can talk about omnipotence.

LagosShia:

there is no need to calm down because im not annoyed or angry.you said 'whatever' so i also said 'whatever'.or were you angry with my reply?

your 'philosophical question' is the zenith of stupidity.i know atheists would feel this is a big catch.but it is utterly stupid

let me give you an instance to make it clear for you to understand what i was trying to say:

there is a sprinter who is the fastest man in the entire world with a world time record.an atheist puts a challenge to him.

the atheists asks him to form a fastest or faster time record he cannot break.if he forms the record he cannot break,it means he is not the fastest man in the world.and if he does not form the record he cannot break it means he is not the fastest man in the world.

this is similar to your 'difficult question'.when you understand that you cannot challenge God Almighty, as a small creature in a wide universe then you will believe in His omnipotence.you cannot use His own power to challenge His own power.it doesnt make sense.the best you can do is to 'find' another 'god' that can create a rock so big that He,the Almighty God,cannot move.then you can talk about omnipotence.

What a load of nonsense.


The fastest man in the world is the person with the fastest recorded speed. Simple. If someone else breaks his record, the person becomes the fastest. I dont know what you are talking about.



The problem with religious people is that they do not understand the meaning of "omnipotent"- Ability to do all things.


The problem with omnipotence is that it is not only impossible but a contradiction.


The rock seems not jarring enough for you.


What about this? Can God create a clone of himself who is slightly more powerful?

Cheers01:


What a load of nonsense.


The fastest man in the world is the person with the fastest recorded speed. Simple. If someone else breaks his record, the person becomes the fastest. I dont know what you are talking about.



The problem with religious people is that they do not understand the meaning of "omnipotent"- Ability to do all things.


The problem with omnipotence is that it is not only impossible but a contradiction.


The rock seems not jarring enough for you.


What about this? Can God create a clone of himself who is slightly more powerful?

it looks like an atheist does not know the meaning of "fastest".

LagosShia:

it looks like an atheist does not know the meaning of "fastest".

It looks like LagosShia has been debunked and had nothing to really say




I love debunking religious people

Cheers01:


It looks like LagosShia has been debunked and had nothing to really say




I love debunking religious people

how sweet. i love the hypocrisy when atheists have nothing else to say or make sense except by claiming victory for lost battles.

LagosShia:

how sweet. i love the hypocrisy when atheists have nothing else to say or make sense except by claiming victory for lost battles.

Give up, you have been debunked on omnipotence!

^

you need not to be crying like a kid.its not a contest.just keep shut that your silly 'philosophical question' has slapped you back in the face.

Why do you, Maclatunji and Tbaba refer to me as a kid?


It's quite emasculating

Is it some muslim power trip or something? I have a beard, you know?



BTW; please, ask your pals this question

^

you behave like a school boy.

LagosShia: ^

you behave like a school boy.

lolololol.....

It is beneath Allah's majesty to carry a rock!

Lagosshia what have u been teaching ur willing learner?

This topic wasn't deleted?
Anyway my opinion: Religion thrives largely on faith not logic so it would not be right to apply logic alone when answering a question like this.
According to religion, omnipotence is something that can only be applied to a Creator that lives in a realm that is greater than the earthly realm. As a result of this, the explanation of omnipotence or the definition of omnipotence would be different/much greater in the realm in which the Creator lives.
Understanding what omnipotence truly means is likely to be limited to those of us in a world in which intellectual processes are limited and not as great as what is taught by religions, to exist in the higher realms.
So my opinion is that we can only grasp part of the real meaning of omnipotence since we live in a world where it is not possible.

"I wonder at the man who observes the Universe created by Allah and doubts His Being and Existence".

-Imam Ali (as) (Nahjul-Balagha)

vedaxcool: It is beneath Allah's majesty to carry a rock!

he did not say "carry".he said "move".you probably mis-read.

Lagosshia what have u been teaching ur willing learner?

addition and subtraction.

LagosShia:

he did not say "carry".he said "move".you probably mis-read.

Now are u aiding your willing learner? Ok Move right? It is beneath Allah to move a rock! Period! When your willing learner asked such a question he made such a remark based on his illogical definition
Of who Allah is, to begin to narrow Allah capability within physical laws we operate in is very unintelligent indeed as Allah creates from nothing . . . So whether move or carry, the most sensible approach to such a question was to ask how is he -ur willing learner assuming the rock was going to move? We should not entertain questions like this because it is beneath Allah to move a rock! Q.E.D

LagosShia:
addition and subtraction.

No wonder, you can bear witness to the results of your hand work lol

fellis: This topic wasn't deleted?
Anyway my opinion: Religion thrives largely on faith not logic so it would not be right to apply logic alone when answering a question like this.
According to religion, omnipotence is something that can only be applied to a Creator that lives in a realm that is greater than the earthly realm. As a result of this, the explanation of omnipotence or the definition of omnipotence would be different/much greater in the realm in which the Creator lives.
Understanding what omnipotence truly means is likely to be limited to those of us in a world in which intellectual processes are limited and not as great as what is taught by religions, to exist in the higher realms.
So my opinion is that we can only grasp part of the real meaning of omnipotence since we live in a world where it is not possible.

Ah Fellis! Great answer.

You sound like a skeptic.

vedaxcool: It is beneath Allah's majesty to carry a rock!

Lagosshia what have u been teaching ur willing learner?

Why is it beneath his majesty? Was creating Shaytan not supposed to be a majestic thing?

vedaxcool:

Now are u aiding your willing learner? Ok Move right? It is beneath Allah to move a rock! Period! When your willing learner asked such a question he made such a remark based on his illogical definition
Of who Allah is, to begin to narrow Allah capability within physical laws we operate in is very unintelligent indeed as Allah creates from nothing . . . So whether move or carry, the most sensible approach to such a question was to ask how is he -ur willing learner assuming the rock was going to move? We should not entertain questions like this because it is beneath Allah to move a rock! Q.E.D



No wonder, you can bear witness to the results of your hand work lol

he obviously does not understand who or what Allah (swt) is.so for you to convince him,you have to go down to his level.you cannot bring him up to your own level when he doesn't even believe there is any god to start with.how would you expect him to understand what a Muslim believes about Allah (swt)?

you should exercise patience and go down to his level to help him reason and understand.otherwise he will not follow your own understanding or ideas just like that.i have been ignoring him when he makes nonsensical posts.but when he seem willing to learn and listen engage him.

@Vedaxcool and LagosShia,

both of you should look at Fellis's answer and see how to answer a question rather than bash the Op.


As for Allah and the moving/carrying a rock being beyond him, you people are joking. What was the purpose of God creating hell/shaytan/demons/djinn?

Cheers01: @Vedaxcool and LagosShia,

both of you should look at Fellis's answer and see how to answer a question rather than bash the Op.


As for Allah and the moving/carrying a rock being beyond him, you people are joking. What was the purpose of God creating hell/shaytan/demons/djinn?

abeg,do not group me or address me with Vedaxcool or hold be accountable for what he said.

fellis: This topic wasn't deleted?
Anyway my opinion: Religion thrives largely on faith not logic so it would not be right to apply logic alone when answering a question like this.
According to religion, omnipotence is something that can only be applied to a Creator that lives in a realm that is greater than the earthly realm. As a result of this, the explanation of omnipotence or the definition of omnipotence would be different/much greater in the realm in which the Creator lives.
Understanding what omnipotence truly means is likely to be limited to those of us in a world in which intellectual processes are limited and not as great as what is taught by religions, to exist in the higher realms.
So my opinion is that we can only grasp part of the real meaning of omnipotence since we live in a world where it is not possible.

the concept of faith without logic or rational is aimed at making religion and God look senseless,aimless and irrational.based on Shia Islam,that is therefore a wrong concept.in Shia Islam,the intellect is one of the five basis for drawing laws in the sharia or in Islamic jurisprudence.there is nothing that God made or said that cannot be rationalized or found to be true and logical.you need to reconsider your words.

LagosShia:

the concept of faith without logic or rational is aimed at making religion and God look senseless,aimless and irrational.based on Shia Islam,that is therefore a wrong concept.in Shia Islam,the intellect is one of the five basis for drawing laws in the sharia or in Islamic jurisprudence.there is nothing that God made or said that cannot be rationalized or found to be true and logical.you need to reconsider your words.

What is rational about allowing the devil to murder Jobs (Ayuub) children to test his faith? Should Allah test your faith by killing your family?


Logic and faith are 2 very different things

Cheers01:



What is rational about allowing the devil to murder Jobs (Ayuub) children to test his faith? Should Allah test your faith by killing your family?


Logic and faith are 2 very different things

they are different things.but faith must be based on reason.

please where did you find it written that Ayyub (as) got all his children killed by the "devil" to test his faith? and can trial be based on reason or not?