Nairaland Forum

Welcome, Guest: Join Nairaland / Login / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 1236265 members, 1645200 topics. Date: Saturday, 19 April 2014 at 09:06 AM

Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. - Ethnic/Racial Politics - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Ethnic/Racial Politics / Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. (3287 Views)

Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. / Why Do Nigerians Think Ethiopians And Somalis Are Mixed? / Why Do Many Famous Black Men Date White Or Mixed-Race Women? (1) (2) (3) (4)

(0) (Reply) (Go Down)

Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by pleep(m): 10:55pm On Jul 19, 2012
They say during American slavery the white slave masters would impregnate black women, siring mixed breeds to create division in the race. I don't know how true this is but the principle stands. Mixed people weaken and divide black people, we should stop considering them black. Despite some of the goods things mulattoes like malcom X have done, mixed people have historically damaged black strength because of their divided loyalties, color confusion and indication of a lack of black pride.

You will notice many black people preaching "We should accept everyone, there is no such thing as race." Blacks (and IR daters) are the only people who say this. Everyone else knows that by trying to accept everyone their race will loose unity and strength. We must drop this mentality it is our weakness.

MIXED PEOPLE ARE NOT BLACK.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by morpheus24: 11:12pm On Jul 19, 2012
quite ridiculous premise if you read over that rubbish you just wrote.

If your idea has any validity to it then the entire African American populations should not be considered black since every 1 in 15 f them is likely to carry a good degree of European ancestry.

In other words only African people should be designated black since they carry the original bio- geographical dna that constitutes indigenous African genotype.

Being black is more that just having black skin.

4 Likes

Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by pleep(m): 11:19pm On Jul 19, 2012
More of that "everyone is mixed mantra" black people love to say. You notice how no one else says that crap, only black people?

So are black people the only mixed race and how are white people so good at determining who is really white and who isnt?

You mean to say that only black people became mixed while whites stayed pure?

1 Like

Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by morpheus24: 11:45pm On Jul 19, 2012
pleep: More of that "everyone is mixed mantra" black people love to say. You notice how no one else says that crap, only black people?

So are black people the only mixed race and how are white people so good at determining who is really white and who isnt?

You mean to say that only black people became mixed while whites stayed pure?

Read what I wrote carefully. I said "African American" people who as a general population have mixed or so called "racial' heritage in comparison to indigenous Africans. Malcom X is a product of this, so are a good degree of "African American people"

Mixed heritage is different from being half white and half black first generation.


THe below individual is of mixed heritage, he is neither fully black nor fully white but he does pass for a white person. Your premise is flawed.

1 Like

Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by pleep(m): 11:51pm On Jul 19, 2012
Yes i know. Most people like him would just simply say they are white and that would be the end of it. But with black folks you have someone who looks like the guy in the pic below (i dont know his background he is just a random black guy) talking about their 25% white ancestry.

I know that as far as genetics go there are no major differences between the races, and race is more a social contruct than anything. But race exists, and it is quite easy to tell someone who is black from someone who is obviously mixed.

Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by pleep(m): 4:12pm On Jul 20, 2012
I'm going to let this thread die.

i'm not speaking about race issues on Nairaland anymore.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by PAGAN 9JA(m): 10:55pm On Jul 20, 2012
you fellows are talking foolish things. ALL blacks (AA'S) and ALL whites (american/european) ARE MIXED.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by Ybutterfly: 2:43pm On Jul 21, 2012
PAGAN 9JA:
you fellows are talking foolish things. ALL blacks (AA'S) and ALL whites (american/european) ARE MIXED.

^^^^^^^^^^^EXACTLY^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by morpheus24: 4:34pm On Jul 21, 2012
PAGAN 9JA:
you fellows are talking foolish things. ALL blacks (AA'S) and ALL whites (american/european) ARE MIXED.

Mixed with what?
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by anonymous6(f): 10:09pm On Jul 21, 2012
pleep: They say during American slavery the white slave masters would impregnate black women, siring mixed breeds to create division in the race. I don't know how true this is but the principle stands. Mixed people weaken and divide black people, we should stop considering them black. Despite some of the goods things mulattoes like malcom X have done, mixed people have historically damaged black strength because of their divided loyalties, color confusion and indication of a lack of black pride.

You will notice many black people preaching "We should accept everyone, there is no such thing as race." Blacks (and IR daters) are the only people who say this. Everyone else knows that by trying to accept everyone their race will loose unity and strength. We must drop this mentality it is our weakness.

MIXED PEOPLE ARE NOT BLACK.

hmm I am neutral about this because it depends

First of all you need to narrow down which black community your are talking about because the black race is not monolithic in such a way where they think the same when it comes to this issue, particularly certain black communities(which is why I feel many Nigerians haven't responded to your thread). Secondly everybody knows mixed race people are not Black but in America the racial politics of the one drop rule is why that they are considered Black happens; Obama is a good example of that, plus and how they are raised. So it is a loss & waste of time to even complain about that with black americans but when it comes to Africans well they are not considered Black to Africans but mixed race, colored or half caste. In Cape Verde, South Africa, Angola, Kenya have a recognized mixed race population but small and they don't say they are black. When it comes to Nigeria it is very low, most are Born and raised outside Nigeria and Nigerians don't call them black, I think you know this. Even the very small mixed race Nigerians not recognized by the nigerian government are labeled half caste 24/7 by Nigerians so I don't know where you got your assumption from, that blacks(it depends what community) think they(mixed people) are black. Lastly the small few ones that do assimilate back into the Nigerian community in Nigeria tend to be the ones born and raised in Nigeria with the culture(not all the time though), with the same thinking and etc. It isn't as clear cut as you make it seem so your topic is to general you need to narrow it down more.

1 Like

Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by pleep(m): 10:31pm On Jul 21, 2012
^ you make some good points, but this is the wrong thread: http://www.nairaland.com/994844/mixed-people-should-not-considered
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by PAGAN 9JA(m): 10:32pm On Jul 21, 2012
morpheus24:

Mixed with what?

mixed with pudding. dont you see

there is no such thing as a BLACK RACE! you are basing assumptions based on skin colour which is wrong and is american ideology ( they think there are 4 races : (Black, White, Yellow {Asian}). i can show you countless cases where a person of full-blooded ethnicity has turned dark skin due to adverse climatic conditions and sometimes even vice versa.


in the case of AA's:

-they have first of all mixed with diverse unrelated African tribes. for example, : Yoruba with Hausa with Zulu with Mand'e, etc.

-then in the above process, they have mixed with larger parent ethnic groups: example : Bantu with Pygmy with Nilotic, etc.

- then there is some admixture with the white slave masters who obviously r.aped many of their women.

- then the willing admixture with many diverse Native American Tribes, in some case giving birth to strange new beings such as the "Black Caribs" & Garifuna for example and in the North there was admixture too with Sioux, Cheyenne , Cherokee, Kiowa and specially the Seminoles.


in the case of Whites of Europe:

-Large scale intertribal admixture that occured immediately after the fall of Traditional Paganism across Europe. E.g., todays British are a mixture of entirely unrelate d tribal groups such as the Britons, Celts, Saxons-Angles and the Norman (Norsemen Vikings).

-France: Gauls, Germanic peoples, Visigoths and maybe some Mongolian Hun mixture.

-The Jews are mixed European, Semitic and ofcourse some Mongoloid Khazars.


in the case of American Whites:

-the already mixed europeans mixed further with pther european populations. many also mixed with Native American/Native Canadian Tribes by their policy of asssimilation.



all 3 groups are heavily mixed, so much so infact that there is no chance of dilution.


Note: there are maybe a couple or so european tribes who have not yet mixed. for example, : the Sami peoples.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by PAGAN 9JA(m): 10:37pm On Jul 21, 2012
the only pure populations today are in the tribes of Africa, North America and South America (only parts , e.g. in Peru), the Gulf Arab Tribes , especially Yemen and the Hadhramaut, parts of Central Asia and Eastern Russia, China, 60 % of India, and almost all South-East Asian countries (except a few mixes here and there , e.g., in parts of MAlaysia and phillipines), and ofcourse the Sami of Europe, and finally, the Aborigines of Australia and the Maori of New Zealand.

1 Like

Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by PAGAN 9JA(m): 10:40pm On Jul 21, 2012
i feel the "pure" population still beats the mixed population, considering the Worlds 2 most populated countries, i.e. China and India contribute significantly and ofcourse most of Africa, except some part of the North and muslim Swahilli Bantus of the East. China especially has the largest single ethnic group in the World, the Han Chinese.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by mace11: 3:20pm On Aug 08, 2012
SOME THINGS SAID IN THIS THREAD IS OUTRIGHT INCORRECT BUT I WILL DEAL MOSTLY WITH THE AFRICAN AMERICANS


Mixed race types tend to fall into one basic phenotype, intermediate looks are very rare.There is not a intermediate dna,there is african population dna,european,and asian.

Mixed race is made up out of any OF those groups,there is no such thing has intermediate dna,they don't have there own dna,now A few have thier own looks but it's rare,and even THOSE TYPES OF looks is combination of the MAJOR population groups,so they do not really have there own looks.That's why mixed raced is a recent made up PC GROUP.REALLY NO SUCH THING.iF SOMEONE SAYS THEY DON'T FIT IN AND WANT TO GREEN,ARE FOLKS GOING TO CALL THEM GREEN?NO.

I called it has i see it.If you look black you are black,look you are white etc..
who are you going to believe your own eyes?are someone who looks white and they say they don't for an example.You don't know someones dna until you ask or someone takes a test,and phenotype counts more,so i do not care what anybody else says.Enough of the PC CRAP.

Oh,and if believe there is no such thing has race,how could they be a mixed race since there are those that believe that humans are one race.The proper term would be population groups,or ethnic groups.

So dna wise there is no such thing has mixed types having thier own dna if you believe in one race.

They have dna from the major population groups.

I WONDER why some folks want mixed types to be thier group so badly.

That was never the case before.




quote-

The problem with the Kittles approach is that there is no neat compartmentalisation of the genes for the European genome and the African one. There is much overlap between them given that the modern European genome derives from an African one. So an autosome that might be identified as European may also be shared by some Africans.

Recall that Cavalli-Sforza one wrote that Europeans are a hybrid of Africans(33%) and Asians(66%).

The logic of the analysis is this: the children born to captive black women each year would be fathered by black men--for racial segregation reasons, so it would not be possible for most blacks to have some European ancestry.

Even now when there are no laws prohibiting black-white interactions in that sphere the vast majority of black women who give birth to children fathered by black men.

The problem with the Kittles approach is that there is no neat compartmentalisation of the genes for the European genome and the African one. There is much overlap between them given that the modern European genome derives from an African one. So an autosome that might be identified as European may also be shared by some Africans.




NOTE- recent dna tests are showing only 2% to 5% of black ameriacans have native american dna,so over 90% do not.It makes sense since both populations for most keep to themselves,and most native americans were isolated from most black americans and the population of black americans was larger.



From recent dna test about up to 62% of black americans have admixture and for most it's low,so for most having any non-african dna would not have a impact on looks.



Some are recently coming out saying that most black americans do not have any admixture at ALL.


That all i ahve to say about this.
Bye.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by PAGAN 9JA(m): 10:19am On Aug 09, 2012
^^^^^unfortunately it still doesnt count because even if the AA population has 100 % African DNA, they are still mixed because different unrelated ethnic groups form Africa have mixed. for example, imagine a COngolese Pygmy mixing with Fulani.

1 Like

Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by Ki-Katanga: 12:29pm On Aug 09, 2012
Exactly. Xhosa+Fula = Mixed; Polish+French = Mixed; Get over yourselves.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by PAGAN 9JA(m): 5:36pm On Aug 09, 2012
Ki-Katanga:
Exactly. Xhosa+Fula = Mixed; Polish+French = Mixed; Get over yourselves.

and even todays polish and french are mixed. europe lost all her tribes after the advent of christianity (except a few groups such as the Sami, etc..). tongue

The Poles are largely descendants of West Slavic tribes such as the Polans, etc who mixed with Germanic peoples, etc. the French are a mixture of Norsemen, Gaelic peoples, Visigoths, Franks, and certain Germanic tribes.

1 Like

Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by Ki-Katanga: 9:13pm On Aug 09, 2012
Very true.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by mace11: 9:23am On Aug 10, 2012
I will just repeat a few more things and add some more info.My email came showing this link,a follow link and i just adding and repeating some info and after this i will uncheck the follow up BECAUSE i have nothing much to add after this.


quote-
The problem with the Kittles approach is that there is no neat compartmentalisation of the genes for the European genome and the African one. There is much overlap between them given that the modern European genome derives from an African one. So an autosome that might be identified as European may also be shared by some Africans.

Recall that Cavalli-Sforza one wrote that Europeans are a hybrid of Africans(33%) and Asians(66%).

The logic of the analysis is this: the children born to captive black women each year would be fathered by black men--for racial segregation reasons, so it would not be possible for most blacks to have some European ancestry.

Even now when there are no laws prohibiting black-white interactions in that sphere the vast majority of black women who give birth to children fathered by black men.
The problem with the Kittles approach is that there is no neat compartmentalisation of the genes for the European genome and the African one. There is much overlap between them given that the modern European genome derives from an African one. So an autosome that might be identified as European may also be shared by some Africans.

The problem with the Kittles approach is that there is no neat compartmentalisation of the genes for the European genome and the African one. There is much overlap between them given that the modern European genome derives from an African one. So an autosome that might be identified as European may also be shared by some Africans.
__________________________





RIGHT,Admixture does not have to be racial mixture,it could be those of the same race but varied ethnic groups.So we must be careful using the word mixed or admixture,it could mean anything.

Of course there are a few african americans that come from one ethnic group in africa,so not every african american is a mixed of varied africans,but most are.
I REMEMBER ON TV a african american took a dna test and it trace him back to one ethnic group in africa,nigeria.Of course in the end most african are related.


I WILL JUST REPEAT A FEW MORE THING FROM ABOVE AND BUT IN SOME MORE INFO INF BELOW.

LAMIN-
QUOTE-
I would say--going on Kittles's study about 25-30% of blacks would have some European or Native American ancestry--including trace elements[which would mean that they could travel to West Africa and visually be taken for a local].

Interestingly enough, let's take the daughters of Barack Obama. Of their 4 grandparents one is white. Yet were they born and raised in Kenya they would easily be taken for locals from some particular ethnic group.


I got this from another website.

Brainiac2 wrote:
<quoted text>
Many black folks I have spoken to give it a lot of thought and think it's ironic that Anglo American whites are always pointing out how mixed AAs are but don't seem to notice how mixed they themselves are.

quote-
True to a point,because alot of this black americans are mixed stuff i hear alot of the times too are from african americans themselves.THEY Just keep bring it up when nobody ask them.
I think alot of whites do not care about that,since they still see a black african looking person and if whites bring it up it's really to divide and conquer and or they just don't know better and copy what they heard.For black american that keep bring it up,it's for other reasons,brainwashing,copy cats,self hate,just don't know better etc. so it could be varied reasons has well.
There are recent studies coming saying that most black americans do not have admixture and if most do it's not that high and there are still alot of african americans that do not have admixture from whites or native americans.
For the african americans that do have admixture,the average admixture rate on average is small ANYWAY,so it's not has high has once thought.
Recent studies are coming saying that most african americans or black americans do not have admixture,but there are alot that have varied forms of admixture.maybe up to 40% of african american have some form of admixture,so that's still alot.
So it makes seem that most african americans have admixture because 40% or abit lower is alot.
When a population group has alot of it's members with admixture then alot of folks think most folks in the population have admixture because a large minority does.
Alot folks tend to not be clear thinking on this and myths like the other post has said comes up, AND WHEN TEST RESULTS COME IN THEN YOU HAVE A LOT OF DENYING GOING ON.
keep in mind these test are not that perfect so folks should wait until test taking becomes better,but some tests have bettere results than others
Anyway recent test results are showing that most black amercans do not have admixture.





This will help clear up some confusion.
Here is what a black american of recent east african origin has to say about this.

MissNyasha wrote
quote-
Why do Black Americans continue to lie and say we are all mixed? In the south, there are areas where many of the black people have very little admixture and still look like their ancestors. Many parts of the midwest too. But we will not acknowledge that; we only focus on the Black Americans who have a high amount of admixture in their ancestry and say they represent the majority of AAs when they don't.




osam
London, UK

QUOTE-

To refer to anything as "demonic blood" may be a little harsh, but this argument is actually the truth. I am an American born East African and can say honestly that most African Americans do not look that different from Africans regardless of skin color and features if you know Africans well. Africa is the most genetically diverse continent period and you will find every facial feature, hair texture, and skin color there as you do here if not more so due to its own long, unique history. People forget other racial and ethnic groups have also been in Africa for centuries prior to the Atlantic Slave trade, particurly East and North/Northwest Africa. Light skin doesn't necessarily mean one is racially mixed with white, just as dark skin doesn't mean one is racially "pure", and East Africa is a perfect example. These are based on American racial stereotypes and racial myths. African phenotypes range from an Alek Wek type to a Halle Berry type across the continent. I do think people claiming white or non black blood do it based on known family history or dna testing and there is nothing wrong with embracing that. However I notice some aa's proclaim this the most often and the loudest, even as they look as black as anyone else. Many white americans also have negligible native american and sometimes even African blood and appear exclusively European. You rarely seem them proclaiming other blood for that very reason unfortunately. Any white or non African genetics are almost completely negligible with most AAs and most still look and are decidedly African in their appearance. And since science has proven that most human beings genetics have their origins in Africa anyway, this argument is almost moot. We technically are all genetically linked in one way or another. It always goes back to Africa regardless.

_________________________________

From recent dna test about up to 62% of black americans have admixture and for most it's low.

so for most having any non-african dna would not have a impact on looks.










Genetic Admixture is not the Same as Appearance
quote-
About one-third of White Americans are of between two and twenty percent recent African genetic admixture, as measured by the ancestry-informative markers in their DNA. This comes to about 74 million Americans. And yet, day-to-day experience teaches that virtually all White Americans look, well, White. Some may look more Mediterranean and others may look more Nordic, but very few White Americans have a distinctively African appearance. How can one reconcile DNA measurements with common experience?An anecdote may help illustrate the problem. Look again at the chart of Skin Tone as Function of Afro-European Admixture. Consider one of the graph’s outlier points—a “European American” individual plotted as having 11 percent20 African genetic admixture. Dr. Shriver, the project team leader, became curious about this individual for two reasons. First, the person’s African genetic admixture was unusually high for someone who self-identified as a member of the U.S. White endogamous group. Second, the sample had been taken from State College, Pennsylvania, the site of Dr. Shriver’s own campus.According to Dr. Shriver:

I had the result for two or three years before I even looked up the ID number of the person whom we tested. I looked at who it was and it was me! I checked myself and the rest of my relatives and tracked it through my family. I never considered that there were any African people in my family. There’s no real variation in my family. The admixture must have been pretty far back. It just so happens that we can detect it with the markers we have. My mom especially stood out as being surprised, maybe because I told her it was coming through her father. She still doesn’t believe it about her family! The part of Pennsylvania where my mother’s father came from is where the Underground Railroad ended. There are several towns right here in Southern Pennsylvania where there are very light-skinned African-American communities that are the remnants of the Underground Railroad.

____________________________________________________________________


In the end white americans still look really european,and black americans still look really african,but it depends on which europeans and africans they look closer to.


It will take more admixture for that and sometimes that does not have a impact,but of course the higher the admixture level the more chance of a impact on the phenotype.

So what explains the look?

What we call the black american look you could find in africa for example,so this look has been in africa before there was america .

So in the end black americans still look african,it's just which type of african they look closer to.

Even ethnic groups in africa on average that look abit different then black americans, some in that same group could look more like black americans.

So it depends on group and individuals in certain groups.
Like I for europeans would be the basically the same for black americans.
The other thing that could explain abit of the different look from the average european or african is because different african groups mixed in america,and different european groups too, but less so than the african in america.
Not all for black americans but many.So for black americans most mix with different african groups, so that played a role in why they look they way they look,and what groups they look closer to in africa.

Climate,and diet,PLAYS A ROLE, even then the average BLACK american still does not look really differrent then the african groups they come from.
It's like when someone says this person who is arab, looks hispanic,it's really the other way around because arabs have been around longer has a ethnic GROUP then hispanic.
So i hope both africans and those of african origin in america(some who are recent africans) do not fall for the con games,divide and conquer tactics etc...
Africans and those of african origin living in america can't afford to play that non-sense.


note- only 2% to 5% of african american have native american dna so most do have native american dna.


Some are recently coming out saying that most black american do not have any admixture at ALL.
Originally posted by lamin:







It is a trivial point because given the data from
haplogroup analysis there really are no "non-admixed" groups
existing among human populations. Take the case of Europe. In
that small Asian peninsula you have had migrations from Central
Asia, from Africa North of the Sahara, etc. in relatively recent
times--i.e. from the Neolithic onwards. That's why Europe
confined to a landmass less than the size of the Congo is
home to a number of haplogroups. In the case of
Y-haplogroups you have R, I, E, J, etc. all found outside of
Europe[exception possibly I].

In the case of African transplants to the Americas the genetic
data is all we can reliably go on. Family anecdotes and
eyeball impressions are just non-scientific.

In the case of African Americans the Tishkoff et al. data is
the most comprehensive to date and her team's analysis put
the European contribution to AAs at 13%(Tishkoff 2008). Since
13% would be necessarily a skewed average--given racial
attitudes--then that 13% would tend to cluster among 25-30% of the
AA population. See Kittles on this. This would mean that
75-80% of the AA population would have only zero or just
trace elements of European ancestry.

In the case of African transplants in the Caribbean area the
confined African populations had no alternative but to
procreate among themselves given that the plantation landlords
were in a small minority and mostly absent--away in Europe.
Plus the fact that the small hybrid Euro-African population
quickly formed their own racial buffer caste between the
Africans and the small resident European populations.

_______________

So this person does not believe most black americans have european admixture,but if most do,it not has high has once thought,the average admixture if most do have admixture would on average 10%-13% and up to 62% -65% having admixture,and the rest do not.
Has for white americans admixture for most does not play a role in why they look the way they look too because for those that have admixture it's on average low.
So african or native american dna for most of those do not play a role either.It's climate,diet,mixing with other europeans in america,somethingthey had less of a chance to do back in europe and of course what european groups they come from and look closer too etc,etc...

NOTE- recent dna tests are showing only 2% to 5% of black ameriacans have native american dna,so over 90% do not.It makes sense since both populations for most keep to themselves,and most native americans were isolated from most black americans and the population of black americans was larger.
Folks need to use common sense when it comes to things like this and some spreading myths.









Here some other points


quote-
Yes they no have choice,once you step into america and if you are black you are counted has african american OR BLACK AMERICAN on the census,does not matter if you came 400 years ago or just a recent american that came from another country recently.If someone does not want to be counted has a black american,don't come to america and become a citizen.

Simple has that.


quote-
Recall that Cavalli-Sforza one wrote that Europeans are a hybrid of Africans(33%) and Asians(66%).



EgyptSearch Forums » Egyptology » Are Africans genetically related to each other?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KingMichael777:
[QB] Okay after reading the studies on the Egyptians mummies by DNAtribe. Are all Africans genetically related? I mean how were west African DNA and south Africans found in the mummies? Does this mean Egypt was populated by different African groups?

And were the west Africans always in AE? People always say Africans are diverse and range in different phenotypes. But are they related to each other? My question is are Africans related to one another, since they are so diverse.

And did AE have some west Africans. [/QB][/QUOTE]


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QB] This question of African population relations has been answered many times before. YES, Africans are indeed very diverse genetically because they are the source population for all mankind. The older a population is, the more accumulation of genetic variation and thus diversity. However, greater diversity does NOT mean less relativity. For example, even among the gene pool of a single isolated population where much inbreeding has occurred there is still some form of variation or diversity. It may not be as much as say a larger population that has much contact and geneflow with other populations. Still even among the gene pool of a single family there is genetic variation also even if all members are related to one another. The same can be said of Africans. Genetically there are many clades and subclades and even variation within subclades that are to be found among Africans, yet just because you have individuals who carry lineages of a certain clade does not mean they are not related or even share other genetic characteristics with individuals who carry lineages of another clade, especially if all these individuals reside within the same community or region. Because Africans have such tremendous genetic diversity, there is actually more genetic variation within a single village in Africa than there is in say a state in the U.S. or a nation in Europe, but that doesn't mean all these villagers have no relation to one another! An even better example would be chimpanzees, our closest related species. The chimp species is even older than humans which is why their genetic diversity is even greater still. Two individual chimpanzees of the same population in the same forest have more genetic variations between them than two individual humans who live in opposite ends of the globe, but that does not mean they are unrelated!

As for Egypt. Geology shows that the Sahara desert did not always exist and North Africa was once green and fertile. Archaeology also shows that the area that is now Egypt has also received migrations of populations from farther west in the central Sahara as North Africa began to dry out and turn to desert. This is supported by genetics such as the fact that Egyptians carry the Benin variety of HBS (sickle cell anemia).

Note that while ancient Egyptians share many cultural features with other east Africans, there are other cultural peculiarities such as ritual masks, dolls, the wearing of wigs, and iconographic styles that are to be found in West Africa. [/QB][/QUOTE]



[QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QB]







As members of the same species we are ALL related to each other, some populations more so than others and some individuals (families) more so than others.

In the case of Africa, indigenous populations are all related to each other because of constant gene-flow that has occurred throughout the continent such as the PN2 clade that is found from southern Africa all the way to northern Africa, though there are other SNP clades and even other genetic factors like blood groupings, HLA, etc. that show constant gene-flow and interbreeding between various African groups. Geneflow has between different populations has occurred in Eurasia but not to the same extent as Africa due to longer periods of isolation caused by geographical features like extensive mountain ranges etc. But overall Eurasians are all related to each other since they all descend from a small population that left east Africa during the lower paleolithic. This is why East Africans out of all Africans have the most relation to Eurasians NOT because they are Eurasian mixed as some Euronuts believe but because Eurasians descend from them! East Africans themselves are merely a subset of the larger and more extensively diverse genepool of Africans. [/QB][/QUOTE]




Topic: Are Africans genetically related to each other?
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008166















DNA traces Chinese back to Africa
Genetic researchers say they have found fresh evidence that Chinese people are descended from Africans.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/183392.stm


DNA Testing - Out of Africa
Scientists believe Homo Sapiens emerged from Africa around 50,000 years ago. Population geneticist, Spencer Wells is director of the Genographic Project. In Vanity Fair, Wells says that humanity 'owes' Africa, because Africa is humanity's first home. DNA testing means previously unknowable data is now widely available about our ancestry. Wells has charted DNA shared by over six billion people.

http://www.ibdna.com/regions/uk/en/?page=vanityFair

This info below is from 2007.

Out of Africa
quote-
Somewhere between 80,000 and 50,000 years ago, Africa saved Homo sapiens from extinction. Charting the DNA shared by more than six billion people, a population geneticist—and director of the Genographic Project—suggests what humanity "owes" its first home.

quote-
What about humanity, though? What about creatures you would recognize as being like you if they were peering over your shoulder right now? It turns out that every person alive today can trace his or her ancestry back to Africa. Everyone's DNA tells a story of a journey from an African homeland to wherever you live. You may be from Cambodia or County Cork, but you are carrying a map inside your genome that describes the wanderings of your ancestors as they moved from the savannas of Africa to wherever your family came from most recently. This is thanks to genetic markers—tiny changes that arise rarely and spontaneously as our DNA is copied and passed down through the generations—which serve to unite people on ever older branches of the human family tree. If you share a marker with someone, you share an ancestor with him or her at some point in the past: the person whose DNA first had the marker that defines your shared lineage. These markers can be traced to relatively specific times and places as humans moved across the globe. The farther back in time and the closer to Africa we get, the more markers we all share.


quote-
The world population that was spawned in Africa now has the power to save it. We are all alive today because of what happened to a small group of hungry Africans around 50,000 years ago. As their good sons and daughters, those of us who left, whether long ago or more recently, surely have a moral imperative to use our gifts to support our cousins who stayed. It's the least we can do for the continent that saved us all thousands of years ago.



http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2007/07/genographic200707




Since 2007 MODERN africa had made major progress and even before that.
The main folks who are going to save it and is saving will be and is the africans themselves.ANYWAY I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT and and remind folks that africa is were the human race is from.
By the way africa does not need saving,it's doing fine and will progress more from in future.


note- i have problem with the western media viewing modern africa has some hopeless case and it's not.THAT'S ANOTHER TOPIC


These are the recent facts.
That's all from me here.
BYE BYE.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by CSCM79: 8:22pm On Oct 23, 2012
"They say during American slavery the white slave masters would impregnate black women, siring mixed breeds to create division in the race. I don't know how true this is but the principle stands. Mixed people weaken and divide black people, we should stop considering them black. Despite some of the goods things mulattoes like malcom X have done, mixed agree with you that people have historically damaged black strength because of their divided loyalties, color confusion and indication of a lack of black pride.

You will notice many black people preaching "We should accept everyone, there is no such thing as race." Blacks (and IR daters) are the only people who say this. Everyone else knows that by trying to accept everyone their race will loose unity and strength. We must drop this mentality it is our weakness.

MIXED PEOPLE ARE NOT BLACK."

I understand where you are coming from with this post. I agree with you that black people should not feel the need to be raceless. I do not think we need to adopt the "melting pot" theory that everyone can get along peacefully if we all just ignore race and pretend there are no cultural and physical differences (even though these physical differences are really only superficial ones). I think the differences of race and culture make the world a much more beautiful place, a rainbow or a quilt, would not really be a rainbow or a quilt, if they consisted of only one color. A rainbow is beautiful because of all the colors it contains; and a quilt is beautiful because it is a patchwork of a variety of colors and patterns. Likewise, a variety of races and cultures makes the world a less dram, and more appealing place. Forgetting about race isn't the key to a more peaceful and harmonious world, it is acceptance of differences and an appreciation of the beauty of diversity.

Most people are upset when whole species of animals die off, or when a species of animal becomes endangered, or even if a particular variety within a species was a very low population. We find these things upsetting because we value diversity in nature. So, I see no reason why we should not also value variety within the human race as well (biologically human races are actually varieties within the same species; just as poodles, dalmatians, and pugs, are varieties of the canine species). This is why it is particularly sad when great numbers of people of one race die off (often due to genocide), such as the Native Americans and Jews.

I also understand why you would not want to consider mixed people black if you believe "they damaged black strength because of their divided loyalties, color confusion and indication of a lack of black pride." However, I think in most cases, the problem for this confusion is not the fault of the mixed people, it is the fault of the more "purebred" people. I am a multiracial. My mother has a black mother and a father that is half black and half Native American. My father is white (of German decent). So, I am mostly black and white, but I am also part Native. I have always wanted to be considered any one of these races (or even a completely different race), just so that I could feel as though I belonged somewhere. However, most of the people from these races refuse to accept me as a member of their race. I actually have never identified with any race, because of this constant rejection (I'm just me).

Of course, I don't consider myself white, when so many white people still believe that if you have any traceable black blood in you you are not white. And of course, I do not consider myself black, when most black people say things to me such as: "You look to white to be considered black." My mother never had me signed up as a member of the Native tribe her family are members of, I have never met any of those family members, and I have never been to the reservation, all of these things a person must do to really be accepted by the Native American communities as being a member of their of one of their tribes; so, I'm not Native. I am not related to any other race at all, so they will not accept me for the same reasons. So, where do I fit in? Would you consider yourself a member of a group of people that constantly rejects you? Of course not. You may like people of various races, but you don't really identify as being a member unless you feel accepted. For example, you may like Amish people, but if Amish people don't recognize you as being Amish, are you a member of the Amish community? Of course not! No matter how much I want to be a member of MENSA, I am not a member until they accept me. Likewise, no matter how much I would like to be a member of the black race (or any race that will have me) I am not a real member unless I feel accepted.

Another thing, it often seems to me that people assume that is a mixed person is closer to members of the white side of their family they must dislike black people; or vice versa. When in reality, everyone has certain members of their family they feel closer too. More often than not, mixed people see their family members as family members regardless of what race they are. for example, I don't think of my mother as "my black mother," she is simply my mother. Just as you don't see your mother as your black mother, or short mother, or skinny mother, etc., she is just your mother, and most likely you love her. It doesn't mean I don't like white people as much as I like white people just because I love my black mother. Neither does it mean I dislike black people because I love my white sister. It is simply an issue of familial love; it is not an issue of racial identification.

If white people tell me I am not white and i must consider myself black, and black people tell me they do not accept me as being black, and Native people tell me I am not a real member of their tribe, what race am I supposed to be? I definitely cannot consider myself another race, because they will say the same thing. I can't really even consider myself a member of the "mixed race," because there as so many variety of mixed races out there. Even only within the black/white mix there is a great deal of variation in the way we look. Also, depending on which side of the family we group up around more and which neighborhoods we grew up in, some of us will have a white culture and some of us will have a black culture, and some of us will have an even blend. So, mixed people cannot really identify with one another based on shared looks and shared culture.

So, of course we will seem to have color confusion, a seeming lack of loyalty and pride in one race over the other. I am not confused about the color I am, I'm light tan. I am only confused about which color I should describe myself as to you and others that demand a response. If people like you are saying I cannot claim tan since the only choices are black or white, and you're telling me I an not dark enough to be black, and I am not light enough to be white, what can I choose? Why should feel a need to be loyal for one race over the other, when neither race is loyal to me? Why should I feel proud to be a black person, when black people tell me all the time "you're not a real black person"? I bet you don't hate Olympians, but are you proud to be an Olympian? Well, unless you are an Olympian, how could you be? I love black people, and I am not at all ashamed to be part black; but I am not proud to be black (since most black people refuse to accept me).

It seems like the very best race a person could be is a mixture of all races (or at least several), because then you would fit into all of them, and be loved by everyone. Why should I have to choose anyway? I would not ask a black man to chose to either identify himself as either a male, or as a black person. I would not say, you must pick one and denounce the other, otherwise you denounce them both. What would you choose? It's hard to say because that would be an illogical request from me. So, why is it that people often ask me what race I am, and then when I tell them I am a mixture of races, they claim that by admitting to being the other races I am rejecting the race they are am member of? If they did consider me to be a member of their race, why are they asking me what race I am in the first place? I didn't ask them what race they were. Why is it that I cannot be more than one thing? How is this that I can be a daughter, a sister, a wife, a mother, a college student, a Christian, an artist, etc. but I cannot be the same race as my mother and as my father? I don't see the need to claim one and reject the other, but since everyone say such a need exists, I would happily reject the race that rejects me, and claim the race that claims me. Yet, so far, most people from these races claims I do not belong with them. So for now, I am raceless. Maybe Martians are real, and if so, maybe they will accept me (yet, I doubt I'm green enough)...LOL.

C. Moody
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by CSCM79: 8:41pm On Oct 23, 2012
morpheus24:

Read what I wrote carefully. I said "African American" people who as a general population have mixed or so called "racial' heritage in comparison to indigenous Africans. Malcom X is a product of this, so are a good degree of "African American people"

Mixed heritage is different from being half white and half black first generation.


THe below individual is of mixed heritage, he is neither fully black nor fully white but he does pass for a white person. Your premise is flawed.

Yes, you're right most African American people are mixed with white. But, most white people are also mixed with black, you can't really have it one way and not the other. I am not really sure what your point is about there being a difference between a person being of mixed heritage and a person being a half white and half black first generation. I'm not implying you're wrong, I just am not sure of what your point it. Can you expand on that, please? I am a first generation half black and half white person. I look pretty similar to the guy (or guys, I don't know if that is the same person at different ages, or two different people), except I'm a female.

I claim to be both races, but I don't really consider myself to be either, because most people of both races disown me. I suppose I could straighten my hair and lighten it a little and pass for white. Or I could wear braids, or fluff my hair into an Afro, and and pass myself off as black. Yet, I just feel that people should just except me the way I am. besides, it would be a pain to try to be someone else, so I'm me like it of leave it.

By the way, do you dislike mixed people? It sounds as though you do, but I'm not sure.

Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by CSCM79: 9:07pm On Oct 23, 2012
[quote author=mace11]SOME THINGS SAID IN THIS THREAD IS OUTRIGHT INCORRECT BUT I WILL DEAL MOSTLY WITH THE AFRICAN AMERICANS


Mixed race types tend to fall into one basic phenotype, intermediate looks are very rare.There is not a intermediate dna,there is african population dna,european,and asian.

Mixed race is made up out of any OF those groups,there is no such thing has intermediate dna,they don't have there own dna,now A few have thier own looks but it's rare,and even THOSE TYPES OF looks is combination of the MAJOR population groups,so they do not really have there own looks.That's why mixed raced is a recent made up PC GROUP.REALLY NO SUCH THING.iF SOMEONE SAYS THEY DON'T FIT IN AND WANT TO GREEN,ARE FOLKS GOING TO CALL THEM GREEN?NO.

I called it has i see it.If you look black you are black,look you are white etc..
who are you going to believe your own eyes?are someone who looks white and they say they don't for an example.You don't know someones dna until you ask or someone takes a test,and phenotype counts more,so i do not care what anybody else says.Enough of the PC CRAP.

Oh,and if believe there is no such thing has race,how could they be a mixed race since there are those that believe that humans are one race.The proper term would be population groups,or ethnic groups.

So dna wise there is no such thing has mixed types having thier own dna if you believe in one race.

They have dna from the major population groups.

I WONDER why some folks want mixed types to be thier group so badly.

That was never the case before.




I think it's the people who are half white and half black that want there to be a mixed race. I think this is so because we are constantly rejected by both races. Most of the white side of my family disowned me since I have a black mother, they pretend I do not exist. That is just one example of just how racist white people can be toward mixed people (and I look pretty white). Black people are just as racist. Honestly, I have had many more black people (especially women) treat me like trash for looking not black enough, than I have had white people be racist toward me. Yet, the majority of the people I've come across, regardless of race, are not hateful toward me, but they are stand-offish, and they tell me I am the race opposite of what they are. So, white people say stuff like: "Well, if you are part black, then you aren't really white at all." And black people say: "I know you're suppose to be black, since you have black blood; but, you and I both know you can never truly be black because you look too white to fit in." So, if you don't fit in any existing race, there is an inclination to create a new one.

There is one advantage to being mixed, although you're not a member of either race, neither race feels as distant to you as they do to someone who is not visibly mixed with their race. So, I can not be a white person, but most white people will not feel as uncomfortable with my presence as they are around "full-blooded" black people. So, while the black girls at work would make excuse if the extremely white coworker asked to go to lunch with them, I would be allowed to go to lunch if I invited myself, but I wouldn't have been invited to as the other black girls were. So, basically, I can't be a member of either club, but I can visit both clubs occasionally, symbolically speaking.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by pleep(m): 9:36am On Oct 30, 2012
undecided so you are agreeing with me that mixed people are not black?

btw. I am yet to see this 'discrimination' from black people towards mullatos that you guys often talk about. What sort of things did people do?
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by advocate666: 5:17pm On Oct 31, 2012
Whatever you say, however you feel, you can't stop people from fuckin'.
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by pleep(m): 6:07pm On Oct 31, 2012
^congrats on figuring out how to get past the censor
Re: Mixed People Should Not Be Considered Black, They Weaken The Race. by hugosantos: 8:17pm On Jul 20, 2013
This thread is bollox. Those who wish to mix, that`s a personal/family choice. Those who want to keep within their own (race, caste, culture, ethnicity etc) do so. Life`s hard enough as it is without bigots disparaging swathes of humanity as being `non` (black, white, human(?!) etc.) We know where that kind of thinking leads to (extermination camps and race wars) We`re all part of the same species and ultimately descended from the same stock, whatever colour, What separates and binds us all is history, mostly unpleasant history.

(0) (Reply)

Yoruba Musicians Singing And Begging For Money During Ojukwu's Burial At Nnewi / Are Yoruba Women That Good? / Damn They Disgrace Nigeria Once Again

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2014 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See Nairalist and How To Advertise
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.