Nairaland Forum

biolabee: Ok..

No problem... i dont see sexism around me rather females around me have always been given more preferential because why they are ladies

I do not tolerate wife beating and none of my peers do... why do u still carry perceptions from the older generation.
DOnt forget women now are more empoweredd and can leave on their own

I believe there is a new generation of men that see nothing wroing in doing housework, cooking and taking care of the babies

if anyone tries to touch my sister in her maritial home, he deals with ME

Good.
Fine.
All is well in that case.

biolabee:
Nigerians.. yes afro centric... not sure

Nigerian and afrocentric because many Nigerians and Africans are still under the mentality that women are inferior, good grief.

Again this bolded, i asked you how you were treated as an inferior being when you were in Nigeria you could not answer me

This is getting annoying. You asked me how I was treated as inferior and I told you that I can't start telling you stories about my life to convince you, I have gotten sexist treatment before and I'm not telling any stories, how will you verify that I am telling the truth? Besides I don't have to personally experience sexism to know it exists, I see it happening around me for god's sake.

I intend to train my daughters to the same level as my sons as i will treat them equally
I believe my spouse in due time shd rise to the top of her career
The Minister of Technology, Mobola Johnson was once CEO of Accenture
A woman i respect Mrs Bimbo Akintola... who became president of CITN and is a partner in Deloitte
Mrs Kuforiji Olubi headed accountants in Nigeria so did Dora who headed NafDac
The CTO of MTN was a woman
The former CEO of Oceanic and Ecobank were women....

The fact that some women hold prominient positions doesn't eliminate the issue of gender discrimination.

Where is this issue you talk about in Nigeria that females are suffering and their case is hopeless
Lets not just have causes for causes sake
What is feminism in Nigeria trying to acheive

O MY GOODNESS!!!
DID I NOT STATE THIS IN MY LAST POST?!?
I said many people in Nigeria still believe females are inferior and feminist movements in Nigeria try to correct this way of thinking.
Due to the fact that many men think women are inferior, the way they treat women and the expectations they have of women is affected/flawed. Many men have little respect for women and find nothing wrong with wife beating. Many men and sadly women, think women cannot exist independently, without a man. There are also issues like the belief people have that a woman is under obligation to bear her husband's name after marriage (bearing his name is a choice she should make and there is no law mandating it). There is paying of bride price which is akin to buying the woman, there is the issue of men refusing to help their wives out at home because they believe doing housework is beneath them, and so on and so forth. When you believe a person is inferior to you, your treatment of that person is affected, did I really have to spell it out?

Uchem1: if u want to knw more, read d book why u act d way u act by Tim himalaye. Tanx for d post

Shezzman: Wants to know more?Get Spirit controlled temperament by Til lahaye

Why do people keep talking about his books like they're some sort of infallible temperament bibles? Say anything about temperaments and the next thing you hear is people shouting Tim lahaye.

@topic, good post but I think it would be nice to learn the myths about extroverts for a change. Only introvert myths are given priority.

biolabee:
However it seems u guys being based in the west

Can a Nigerian based or Africa-centric feminist please come up and lets talk

All the feminists on this thread that advocated gender equality are Nigerian and Afrocentric to a degree because many people in Africa still believe that women are inferior human beings and their coming here to speak against notions of gender inferiority serves to eliminate such thinking from the minds of Nigerians/Africans.

The Western ones - i dont know what you are fighting for really

Seriously?

419forlife:
tame appease subdue u know dem meaning

You've lost me again. Forget this tame issue man, I am fuqqing tired of talking about it.

fellis dat real question? reason being ensure kid girl will have healthy and successful experience with opposite sex. who better kno dem man him self?

She will socialize with males outside the house.

father has privilege of being the kind of man u would want your daughter a settle, being with only mom she can tell kid girl what expectation route but to have father to show her as physical model is healthier for the kid girl choices she will make with opposite sex.

I can give that advice, besides his advice will be limited to his experiences and will not necessarily be the best because people and their perceptions differ.

father show her how men are suppose to be balance leader. men woman disagree in house now it is important kid girl see men and woman resolve a conflict reasonable and calm that she is less likely to go for a men who otherwise will not do so. kid girl once full grow will immediately know if men temperament is a right choice for her by interaction she has saw with father to wife. depressions abuses wedlocks things that can be easy avoid with a father guidance.

Socializing outside the home can also provide knowledge about these matters.

fellis husband may god have mercy with him

He's going to be a very lucky man actually

Chennai:

Black/African women will continue to fight for their rights/equal representation and against barbaric traditions like br**st ironing g****al mutilation corrective molestation, inc**t all other things that women and girls are subjected to by Black/African men, regardless of what you Misogynist have to say.... nobody is looking for your approval

biolabee:
There is sth used in assessing vendors for a specific service called technical evaluation
If the score deemed worthy to pass is 70 percent all vendors above this score are technicallyt sound to execute the project
So bringing this to the gender issue, if the minimum IQ to lead the family and ensure all is done is 90 on a scale of 0 - 130+ is SAY 105. If i am this and i marry a lady genius with scores of 130l is it appropriate for her to be the leader of the household since she is deemed more intelligent than i am
I am sure you know intelligence and leadership are not always positively correlated
//See table below

I see cameroonpride has given you some ideas lol
When I say intelligence I am not talking about a mere IQ test for the love of peace. Intelligence in the different aspects that are required in being a good leader, intelligence when it comes to communicating effectively with others, intelligence with delegating responsibilities, intelligence with solving problems etc the whole caboodle. The partner who is better overall or has more success in executing leadership roles is the better leader.

Now on the 5000 years theory i was saying let me explain further... men have ruled societies for this long. to change the status quo you either have to show a new way is better or destroy the old cos its the same men who will give the power
do u get my statement

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. How will men be the ones giving the power? If women are allowed to contest for leadership roles and the notion of their being inferior to men is eliminated from the minds of the populace then they will be elected for positions of power BY THE POPULACE, not exclusively by men.

To bring his theory, Galilieo disproved the flat earth theory first and propounded the round earth theory
Democracy which is acknowleged as the best of the lot of governance mechanisms did not magically appear from no where, it displaced other forms of govt - i know you know your history so no need to enlist those

Women can occupy positions of leadership as we have seen by female leaders who occupied positions of leadership all through history and did a good job at it.
Women are not inferior to men.
Due to the fact that they can be leaders and are not inferior, this means they should be given the opportunities men have to be leaders.
Only if there are as many women in leadership positions as there are men, will we be able to compare both leadership styles and know which is better in the long run.
For now, we have to give women the chance and not marginalize them.

CAMEROONPRIDE: It seems like women on Nl don't have a brain.

Okay almighty fellis how do you measure intelligence? And what does intelligence have to do in leading the household?

CAMEROONPRIDE: Since one will b considered as less "intelligent" what will b the point to consult him/her again? Then if it comes out that the woman is "dumb" and the marry decide to do everything(take decisions even the one concerning her ) you will shout feminism blah men domination blah, we are marginalized blah...

Think before typing

lolz
Believe whatever you will, I have absolutely no interest in debating you

biolabee: ok.. fellis...you believe that if a woman is more intelligent than a man she shd run the home automatically

I cant give you the proof you require but as an auditor/consultant who worked on payroll i am sure of this

nice debate though...

I told you before that I believe in cooperation, not by force submission. However, if there must be a leader then it is preferable for the more intelligent parent to lead.

biolabee: my dear friend, it seems i am not getting thru to you sadly

Then express your points more clearly.

I dont believe the earth is flat, i said Galileo before he could prove the earth was round had to disprove the flat earth theory..

So? That doesn't negate the point that I made before about how attitudes change with times and with increasing knowledge.

again, you are not reading my posts, i said earlier men have been the leaders of the home for 5000 years hence the logic behind them still ruling now

What you said before was actually this:

biolabee: so if for the last 5000 years, men have been head of families it stands to reason that they will be at the present time and people raised by the same people will be used. If you are not satisfied with that, give me a superior logic but don't say I don't have meaningful answers

I was not satisfied with that so I gave you a superior logic by telling you that women can be better than men as leaders so we should change our mindset from what it was 5000 years ago.

The theory that women can be leaders in the home not as executives or ministers (you hear)=?) i am interested in the home/marriage/family not in public life where affirmative action is helpign the ladies

Women can also be leaders in the home. Due to the archaic thinking by the majority of people that men should be the default leaders in families, you never hear of women leading the household. This does not mean that women are incapable of being leaders. Women can be smarter and more hardworking (I am getting fuqqing tired of repeating myself) and they can have better leadership skills than men and this would make them better leaders than the men that are not as good as they are in these things. I cannot show you any statistic or research to prove that women can also lead families because it is something that is seen as shameful to the family (due to sexist/religious thinking) hence you never hear of families where women lead and thus, it is practically impossible to compare them to families where men lead.
I can however explain my point using common sense and tell you that the very fact that a woman can be a better decision maker than a man, the fact that she can be more intelligent and can be better at solving problems/ conflict resolutions makes it very completely true that women can also be leaders like men.

I speak in nigeria,, here you have to know that comopanies that are not company friendly also dont pay living wages to even the males so where is this gender gap you speak off

You asked me what the objective of feminism was and I told you the global objectives. You didn't ask me what was the objective in Nigeria specifically.

I have worked and consulted for almost thirty organisations across the key sectors in this country and women earn the same as their male counterparts

I can only take this with a pinch of salt, sorry. Just as you can claim that you have personal experiences in different companies, I can also claim that I know people with contradicting experiences. You have to provide some type of proof to show me that all the thirty organisations pay the men and women equal wages. You also have to show proof that the way these thirty organisations pay their staff is the way every single employment agency in Nigeria pays their staff.

Again I say companies in Nigeria where women dont earn the same as their male counterparts with the same qualifications are bad compoanies to work for and i bet you dont pay the living wage to their workers

whatever man, I already know this, I don't know why you decided to bold it before posting

biolabee: What i mean is that an hypothesis exists and is the basis for scientific research
You must disprive an existing one before your own theory can be allowed
Einstein used his theory of relavity to kill Newtons laws of motion
Galileo ditto on the round earth
A scientist can not just come and say the earth is round and we believe it because it looks nice

Wow. Are you saying you believe the earth is flat? What shape do you think the earth is biolabee?

you have to show me women leading are better off for them to be able to head families.. not single families or dysfunctional ones like lez marriage// i mean a man-woman relationship
Any other thing is sentiment
For women to become the head of the marriage, it has to be proven that male leadership is false and then ur theory can take root

O my god! Are you serious? Are you serious with this statement? How can you even support the idea that leadership should be the default responsibility of the male? I don't have to provide proof of anything, the very fact that some women are more intelligent than some men, the fact that a wife might be better at doing those things that are required of a leader than her husband, makes the idea of default leadership by men a very stüpid one.
What if a woman marries a lazy man or a man that is terrible at decision making? Should she still leave leadership to him knowing that he is likely to make decisions that would hurt his family?

I asked u if you have experienced gender discrimination not to know abt u or ur family but to really know what exactly you stand for -

Gender equality and for gender roles to be earned and chosen, not thrust on individuals.

You have the same opportunities as any male yet you scream discrimination,,, are things better than 40 years ago,,, definitely... where is this discrimination

Discrimination still exists and MANY MEN still believe that women are inferior to them by virtue of their gender.

You do not recognise the achievements women have been able to make and to me that is a siege mentality

What has this got to do with anything? Gender discrimination is still a thing. It is a good thing that women have contributed positively to your life but that does not eliminate the fact that gender based discrimination is still a thing. Please read the three links I put in my last post.

I dont work in a bank
But all the places i have worked incl a bank women have earned the same as men... so i dont see this lower wage you keep on taling about

This is unbelievable. So what happens in the places you've worked is now the same thing that happens in every employment industry?
Please read the second link in my last post for evidence that women receive less pay than men in some institutions.

biolabee:
Ditto Harassment in the workplace but are you aware some women welcome this in return for favors and advancement even when they are educated?

Corruption is rampant everywhere and therefore, yes, some women welcome the idea of selling their bodies in return for advancements in the workplace, that doesn't make the act of harrassing them a correct one. There are men who do similar to what these women do, except that these men use monetary bribes instead of their bodies.
Corrupt people will always exist and they will always carry out corrupt practises but that does not justify bad behaviour.

If u want to go into the earth is flat story, that was the basis of all hypotthesis and it was the job of Galileo and Copernicus to disprove

What is this? How was it just the basis of all hypothesis?
People genuinely believed the earth was flat! It is even recorded in the Bible that the earth is flat. Please google the verses if you want proof of this, don't ask me to provide proof.

I have thrown the gauntlet to you.. show me a superior argument how women leading are better

Where did I say women leading is better? Where?
What I said was that leadership roles shouldn't be the sole responsibility of the males since women have proved that they are also capable of leading. I actually had the family setting in mind when I made this statement.

Great points that women are very intelligent but i ask you fellis or whichever female can answer where have you been discriminated against PERSONALLY
In your household you have the same opportunities your brothers had
In your office, where is the discrimination

I am not going to start giving personal info about myself on this thread just to convince you. Besides, I can understand discrimination even if I have never suffered it. I can understand right and wrong because I have the sense to tell them apart.

Do you know that in my office,it is a policy to recruit 30 - 40& of new intakes as female.. they may not even ne the best but they have to come in as some form of affirmative action

You work in a bank?

Leadership roles are bestowed on the best
In the UK Mensch was identified as a high riser in the Tory party but she opted for a reality lifestyle so is that one discrimination
A woman who has the b@lls will rise to the top.. so dont tell me leadership is bestowed upon men actually
Okonjo, Madeliene Albright, Diezani(well... grudgingly), Ezekewzili,- all have some form of power
The prime minister of Australia is a woman

Women are getting more opportunities to lead than they used to have because of movements for gender equality. It wasn't always this way. There was a huge movement in the late 90's after the world war, to keep women out of the workplace, c.fours stated this before. It is a gradual thing, of course more women are getting opportunities to acheive their potentials as leaders in places of work but that doesn't mean they no longer face discrimination. here, here and here contain info that show that women still suffer gender based employment discrimination and receive lower wages for doing the same work as men.

I asked what is the thrust of feminism and cfour says its now abortion?
Choice is enshrined since Roe v Wade but now its become a political thing and was an issue in the last us presidential election
Its a given subject to certain considerations and abortion is accepted in the West generally
So i ask you, what does feminism realy mean,,, what are its objectives

Feminist movements are aimed at providing better understanding and acceptance for the concept of gender equality and defending equal political, economic and social rights for women. Feminism seeks to protect women from domestic violence, sexxual harassment and assault and to protect them against different forms of sexxual gender discrimination.

As an analyst there is sth called Analogic analysis where you start with the known and extrapolate, so if for the last 5000 years, men have been head of famiiles it stands to reason that they will be at the present time and people raised by the same people will be used
If you are not satisified with that, give me a superior logic but dont say i dont have meaningful answers

Cultures, beliefs and ways of life change as we develop as human beings and increase our knowledge therefore, the beliefs we held centuries will not necessarily be the same beliefs we hold today. For years people held the belief that the earth is flat but with the advancement of technology with which to study the earth, it was discovered that the earth was not flat after all.
Would you say that since humans believed in a flat earth for centuries then that means we must always continue to believe the earth is flat?
Also, in the past, when kings wanted to expand their kingdoms what they did was to out rightly send a message of war to the ruler of whatever kingdom they desired to have and if he accepts to give up his kingdom, a peaceful take over occurs, if he doesn't accept then war. Presently with the advancement of civilization and organisations like the United Nations, barbaric practices like that have ceased.
Presently with the aid of different scientific findings and researches it has been made known that women are just as intellectually capable as men and that gender inequality is nothing but a farce so it is no longer necessary for us to live the way we used to live in the past when women were seen as inferior to men and not capable of taking care of themselves.
So,
considering the fact that we have now expanded our knowledge and know that women are not inferior to men, why then should we continue to treat women as if they are inferior? Why should leadership roles be bestowed solely on men when there is evidence to show that women can also be good leaders?

You guys take things too personal

We're not taking things too personal. We are just asking for you men to kindly accept the fact that women are not inferior to you, thank you.

I ask has feminism solved the innate struggle between genders.. in the same west that you have divorce settlements yet people still engage in serial marriages as an avenue to enrich themselves

who said feminism is going to end all types of wars between genders? Feminism seeks to end discrimination and injustice. Of course there will still be disagreements between males and females.

People still abuse their women and the women keep quiet

Attitudes are still changing, there hasn't been 100% complete change but it is happening gradually.

Go figure...

Let me end this post by telling you this; sex and race, because they are easy visible differences, have been the primary ways of organizing humans into superior and inferior groups (blacks were considered and are still considered by some whites, to be inferior to white people in the past) and these groupings were used to decide who plays what role in society regardless of their capabilities.
Societies shouldn't work that way, roles should be earned or chosen, not thrust on individuals.
Simple fairness and justice, simple humanism.

biolabee: its when the basic tenets of social justice are met and people just cause more issues for political gains.

Can you elaborate on this point please? Thank you

i believe we are seperate but equal and have our roles.
However in a relationship, there must be a head
Its typically the male.
Daz all

WHY
Why should the male be the typical head? I asked you this question before and you didn't give me a meaningful answer yet you return back to make the claim again.

In the same west, has gender equality tamed the gender wars... naahhhh

There has been improvement in the way women are treated due to movements for gender equality, I'm not sure I know what point you're trying to make.

biolabee:

It's poignant considering when the basic and important things are done
It will have become a monster that will be uncontrollable as we see in the West.
All causes become monsters eventually

How has the issue of gender equality become a monster in the west?
So biolabee, you think women are inferior to men

If love is a crime by 2face (I'll never forget you Chris ) and live your life by Rihanna. I hate that song but it always reminds me of the guy.

biolabee: Hmmm I appreciate your fierceness for the cause though
In 40 years time I'm sure this line of thought will be prevalent

Lol why does the thought make you sad? Our different genders are meant to compliment each other, not to establish superiority or inferiority of one over the other.

biolabee:
things will get done in a kumbaya household but really slow
there are times u need to be inclusive in your home but there are times you need to be sharp n decisive
i dont need no ratifications at those times

If you are supposed to take an on-the-spot decision that affects your family in the absense of your spouse then you can go ahead and do that as long as you have the benefit of your family in mind when making such decisions. Same goes for your wife, she can also decide for the family in your absense without your ratification.

biolabee:
Fair enough..
However even in a hippie commune there still needs be a leader
Ruling by consensus rarely works effectively
Thanks so far

I would really love for you to show me proof that the families that work are mostly those in which one parent is allowed to lord it over the other.
You're welcome

biolabee:

ok... so if u are married or get married or anyhow...
what does submissiveness mean to you

I believe in cooperation and working together in marriages. Not submission or the imposing of one person's will over the other person.
Discuss and follow the line of action that makes the most sense.
But this is just my personal opinion. Other couples should do whatever works best for them.

biolabee:
Well

I don't know hos to answer that

Whether traditional or biblical or whichever means

I am the head of my home
I should be smart enough to defer to my wife on matters she is better suited to handle

Ok then.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions

People still chat on 2go? Lol.
Poor man thing

biolabee: Well I really don't know how to answer the question you have
I will borrow from one of the earlier posters that the man initiates the family hence he is the head

Initiates the family how? By asking the woman out or by proposing to her? What about if in a situation where the woman asks the man out or proposes to him? Does that mean she is allowed to be the head of the family?

He may not be the best at it hence his wife is a help mate

If the man is not in the best position to be the leader in a relationship then he should step aside for the better leader to take over. Besides, the wife being a helpmate does not necessarily mean the husband would accept her advice. He can still reject them and follow his poorly thought out decisions because he is the leader and his word is final.

What is your view on marriage? Do you believe in it

Yes, people who want to get married can do so since it is their life. I just don't think it should be a matter of life and death like society is making it to be presently; if a person doesn't want marriage they are seen as abnormal. This is wrong.

Yes I am commanded to love my wife
And I will do it gladly

Ok. But if you keep showing her love even when she's badly behaved, she will have no repercussions to fear and will be unlikely to change.

dayokanu: Seems fellis is Finding love at last on this thread

Is it my fault? You can never predict where you'll find love

419forlife:

i don kno what is u define i mean tame like appease

tame does not mean the same thing as appease, they mean different things. But I get your point though.
I get your point

doubt it for beginning me to but as kid girl grow she will indefinitely need her father wisdom

What will she need her father's wisdom for?

For me I am the head of the home - thats the answer the buck ends with me

You have not answered the question, all you did was repeat the same thing in different words.
I asked why should the buck stop with you and you said because you are the head of the home. When you say the buck stops with you, you have also said that you are the head because they mean the same thing. The question I was asking is; why should it be so? Why should you be head? What logical justifications do you have for believing that you deserve headship?

biolabee:
No... i just wanted to know your opinions on authority
The first male authority a woman meets is one she has no choice - the father
The next, in marriage - she has a choice and thus my question

I fail to see how these two sentences follow each other. So because the female follows the father as an authority figure before marriage that means she must follow her husband as an authority figure after marriage? What if her husband is not a good authority figure as she is? What if she is more intelligent than he is? What if she is more worldly wise?
People just read religious books and decide to follow the laws in them without thinking of how much sense those laws make . The problem with religious laws is that they are too black and white.
For the women, once you get married then you have to submit to your husband under every imaginable scenario, it must always be like that, there can't be any exceptions.
For the men once you get married then you must love your wife. Even if she turns out to be a lazy, no-good, lying trouble maker. Love her, like christ loved the church.
Black and white. No shades of grey.

biolabee:
being a while you been around this here parts
i will answer but pls do not mind but what are your views on marriage and then submissiveness

Are you trying to avoid answering the question I asked?

One of my favourite lecturers is getting fired. . . .so sad. . . .

Great thread btw, I never knew Waangari was an ecofeminist

@c.fours,
since you believe in gender equality, I wanted to ask, do you believe children should bear their fathers' names by default in families with both parents?

biolabee:
I believe in the medium ground which is growing
It will definitely still be full of conflicts but I am the head of the house and the woman defers to me

Authority can be delegated as seen fit just like a modern corporation but the buck starts and stops with me

Would you be kind enough to state why you made the statement in bold?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPnD_Vk6SfY

Wizkid has a son? That's the first I'm hearing of this.