raumdeuter:


Yes. Its easier to identify with historical kingdoms than the attempted STate creation by the military. Oyo STate, Osun state, EKiti STate Ogun state lagos State are Nigerian and military terminologies

There can be up to 20 provinces based on our ancestral differences. WHat is called Osun currently is a combination of Igbomina, Oyo speaking, Ijesha, And Ife people, Ogun is made of Egba, Ijebu and riverine people, Ondo is made of Ondo, AKure, Ikale, and riverine people

Merge the Ekiti in Kwara with the current EKiti, The Okun can stand alone, the Igbomina in Kwara merge with their Osun brothers

It would make traditional rulers more powerful but Yorubas dont have an issue with obeying their annointed kings and like in Oyo empire there are Oyo mesi to check the king

I am getting you. Do you suggest this template only in an Odua nation or do you think it is workable in a regional setting within Nigeria?

9jacrip:
.

Using division from the past [that wasn't even in existence till post Oyo] as a determinant for the feasibility of the implementation of a system that achieved much more than what we currently operate has or ever will is not good enough Egbon.

At least regional system worked for the short period it existed unlike our present system that has lasted longer but keeps making the future appear bleaker by the year.

Wouldn't it be right to try a something that once worked than cower under the fear of Yoruba division that didn't hinder it in its first attempt?

Just my thoughts egbon Katz.

I was responding to DK's post about divisions.

If you have followed my posts, you would have realised that I have a preference for regionalism.

raumdeuter:


This is not peculiar to the SW alone

With an independent nation we can go back to provinces like it used to be

WHile we are all Yoruba we are still different even calling everyone Yoruba was a recent phenomenon

I am sure you know about the clamour for Ijebu State from the current Ogun State, Same with Oke-Ogun from current Oyo and Oduduwa State from current Osun

Are you postulating that it would be easier to abolish states & LGs and just create provinces along historical kingdoms? And have one premier?

If that, I worry that traditional rulers may interfere too much. But it would be better than the current arrangement.

raumdeuter:


Unless its by a decree, I dont think the states would vote to be merged back

Ondo people were glad to get rid of Ekitis in 1996, Oyo were glad to get rid of the Ijesha in 1991

People in EKiti would simply tell you we cant go back to the days of getting instruction from AKure.

And Ibadan would tell you they dont want Ijeshas back

And yet

1. Some folk think Yoruba can have an independent nation with so much division. It appears even regionalism can't work.

2. More importantly, people want progress but don't understand what is required and are not prepared to accept change

SMDH

raumdeuter:
Merging of states wont work

And why not? Please elucidate further.

zimoni:
Big Katz vs Big Mayor

The Lagosians

This is going to be interesting. Where is my guguru?

Le go there.

You chaps love drama too much.

Mayor is a faaji man. He has no time for war.

MayorofLagos:


You want to merge Lagos with where

You must first pay me, Mayor, omo onile fees.

Let's first establish that you aren't a squatter. When did your forebears get to Lagos?

OnReflection:


Like you, I believe this is the way to go.
But wait a minute...I think we may have to leave Lagos out of the equation to begin with. The combo of Lagos-based politicians who fear being subsumed and E-siders that only pay lip service to regionalism, are likely to rail against any attempt to merge with Ogun state.

Interesting, I would have thought that it would be easier to merge Lagos with Ogun since both states have the indigenous same groups - Awori, Egba, & Ijebu.

But I can see your angle.

OnReflection:


Do the following resolutions not speak to our yearning for regionalism?



So why are all Yoruba chieftains in the current government oblivious to this document?

Excellent question

Simple answer - Because Yoruba chieftains can't put the Yoruba interests above their selfish interests.

Merging of states would solve this issue of bloated civil services.
Why can't Ogun merge Lagos, Oyo with Osun, and Ondo with Ekiti?

Have three big states with more autonomous LGs for outreach to citizens?

OnReflection

Thanks for that. It would appear that the groundwork has been done already. All that remains is for the appropriate reps/senators to politic to bring this to actualization in their respective states.

raumdeuter:


These issues are not peculiar to Kogi alone and Its only in The SW and SE that we really have homogenous States

If the Okun people push that and it works then a lot of issues with boundary adjustment would come to fore especially in the North Central, SS and NE

There might also be an issue if Kwarrans, Ondo or Ekiti people would want them to be added to their own current landscape

There will always be issues. The real issue stems from greed and ego.

Re-drawing state lines is a small issue. I actually believe that most African nations should re-draw their borders along homogenous boundaries similar to many European nations. Now, I am not saying that each Ethnic Group should have its own nation but where practical, boundaries should be re-drawn. In the short term, there will be pain but I believe in the long run, the benefits would outweigh the pain. Take a look at East Africa where Ethnic Groups cross borders to support their Ethnic Groups in other countries.

Considering that most of these states were created by military leaders, wouldn't it make sense for these issues to be re-visited? Can't these issues be reviewed together with the larger issue of the Structure of Nigeria?

It is time Nigerian legislathieves start earning some part of the obscene wages they are paid.

But of course, this is just a waste of time.

raumdeuter:
I doubt there is any provision for them to get out of a state else we would have several people caught on the wrong side of the boundary clamouring for the same


Since the above isnt feasible then the Igalas would have to live with Okun man for the next 4 yrs

Just like Ciroma and co were shut up when Jonathan succeded yar'Adua against their wish

The same constitutional provisions that allow for State creation can be used for state boundary modifications. The only issue I have with this is that some mischievous never-do-wells will request for an Okun state when the Yoruba LGs should simply be added to Ondo, Ekiti and Kwara.

If the provisions don't exist, nothing stops the senators and reps from that state from moving a motion.

If there are more Igalas in the State House and a majority don't want an Okun Governor, then they can impeach the governor at any time.

nduchucks:


e kpele nbeyen o. Idobale ni mo wa.

The answer to your question is hypocrisy. It is similar to some men calling those with 4 wives immoral while they who have one wife maintain 10 or more concubines all over the world.

Alhaji Chukuma

I hope you are keeping well.

hahahahaha at those with one wife and 10 concubines.

Raumdeter & Ilaje44

There is a difference between aspiration and popularity.

Anyone can aspire to be governor or president of a state or nation that they are native to.

But elections are popularity contests. And this popularity is often determined through ethnicity. Why can't a Scottish person become PM in the UK?
And the last Scottish PM(Brown) who got there through the back door lost the election on which he was on the ballot.

Having said that, minorities can aspire to be leaders anywhere but that person must be selling a fantastic product. Similar to how Obama won in the US.

The argument about GEJ a minority ruling is a strong one but I don't believe it is relevant here because GEJ had been sworn in and there was no constitutional or judicial reason to take the mandate from him. In this case, this election is yet to be decided or a victor sworn in. The party still has the opportunity to correct or validate Faleke's popularity. Let him contest with others who are also aspiring.

If Faleke attains this position through precedence set by the Supreme Court, he will simply be exposing himself. If he is unpopular with the majority in that state, they will frustrate his efforts. The end of that will be some Yoruba sons opening threads on NL and crying about how the Governor is being frustrated and then the wars and e-wars will start with Igala and some other mischievous non-Yoruba/Igala.

This is analogous to a black man walking around in the dead of night in Alabama or Mississippi. Yes he has the right to walk anywhere at any time but is it commonsensical for him to do so?

In any case, this is just my opinion.

Is it necessary for a Yoruba son to be governor in a state where Yorubas are a minority? Otherwise they risk being accused of what they accuse others of doing. If Faleke is wanted by a majority, then all well and good but sneaking in through a technicality will create problems for him and the Yoruba.

I really don't get why Nigerian people always want someone from their ethnic group to be governor/president.

laudate:


Hello, the name Oshodi in Yoruba, is the same as the family name Oshodin in Benin. I do not know if they are related, but it started out as a chieftaincy title in the old days. The current Oshodin of Benin is Chief Dan Ize-Iyamu.



The former VC of university of Benin is Prof. Osayuki Godwin Oshodin. So members of that family bear the name as a surname, even though it started out as a chieftaincy title. Like I said earlier, I cannot tell if the Oshodi family in Yorubaland is related to the Oshodin of Benin. There was a lot of interaction between Benin and Lagos in the old pre-colonial days, and nobody knows if one of the sons of the late Chief Oshodi Tapa ended up moving to Benin to settle there. But it would be interesting to explore this link.

Oshodi is Tapa and not Bini.

laudate:


At least, I know monkey is 'Edun.'

Isn't monkey Obo?

chic2pimp:

Kats na here you come dey now abi? Nah which mini skirt madame you chase come here?

But this was/is my main section. I only visited the Football section in parts but quickly tired of it.

Mini skirt madame! ! ! Not all chaps here chase ladies.

Shymm3x:
What's lion in Yoruba language cos I'm sure Yorubaland had African lions in the past before Nigerian devoured/feasted on all the lions?

And gorillas?

Gorillas are only indigenous to Nigeria/Cameroon and Central Africa.

Me me me

I know this one. Lion is kiniun

Gorilla must be gorilla in all languages jor.

Shymm3x:


But do you think that'll be the case in modern Yorubaland?

I don't think anyone would want to play the Ibadan role and if Oyo hadn't collapsed, Ibadan wouldn't have existed as a powerhouse.

My concern isn't that there will be war, far from it. My concern is that the old feuds and rivalries would lead to friction which would be antithetic to development and peaceful existence. Similar to what you have in Nigeria today. Whilst I believe that inter-marriage amongst the various groups has helped to reduce the significance of these feuds, I still believe it will be an issue.

ProfShymex:
MayorofLagos

Sir, I saw a question you asked Katsumoto yesterday about what started Kiriji wars. And I know Katsumoto also highlighted his fears on this thread about folks re-igniting old rivalries in a Yoruba country.

So, I think folks who know a lot on the background story about the Kiriji wars need to educate us on what started the wars and highlight what made the war a war of rivalry - and not a war caused by the power vacuum created by the collapse of Oyo.

Personally, based on my scholarship thus far: I think the wars had more to do with power vacuum and if Oyo hadn't collapsed, there would've never been Kiriji wars. And that's not synonymous with Yorubas alone - it happened in all ancient cultures and folks moved on after power was restored. When the Roman empire collapsed - it also created a power vacuum everywhere the Roman ruled. Internecine wars became the order of the day. England is a classic example and all the wars fought by the different invaders, albeit from the same ethnic group/stock, exemplifies that. Heck, even the Saxons fought amongst themselves. However, once they were able to formulate one general language and fall under one control system - everyone got along perfectly.

cc: aareonakakanfo/cabbieAC

MayorofLagos:


Yeah, Katsumoto is consulting Ifa on the matter. Im sure he will return to confirm what I always thought was the root cause.

I responded to you a few days ago. See below

Katsumoto:





Not all wars are fought over poussy, as you called it. This was a war over power, nothing more nothing less. Latosa wanted to subjugate other groups mainly the Egbas and Ijebus and bit more than he could chew. Once he attacked the Egbas, the Ijebus aligned with Egba and the Ilorins and Ekiti saw the opportunity to take Ibadan. The Ibadan chiefs, who were initially reluctant to fight, had no option to fight or face destruction.

It's nothing new, similar to how Napoleon wanted to conquer Europe.

But perhaps others such as TerraCotta can shed more light on this 'poussy' angle if one exists.

IlekeHD:


I agree. Better late than never.

I heard that it's going to take Nigeria 58+ years to get adequate number of doctors for Nigerians [population], 50+ years to clean ogoniland, 50 years before oil runs out.

Even if it takes Yorubaland 60+ years to attain its glory, it's better late than never.

Katsumoto, I disagree with your opinion that regionalism isn't the key. It may not be the key, but it is the holy grail.

I am not sure where you got that from. I have always advocated for Regionalism/confederationism rather than outright secession.

SexyKaycee:
Has it ever occurred to you that Yorubas overseas dnt mke d national team cut because of their long stay overseas sometimes up to four generations which mke dem have mre affinity for d English national team over the Nigerian one

Like when David Alaba & Adebayor were rejected by Nigeria? ? ?

They play politics in Naija sports.

Edited

MayorofLagos:


Popo Aguda ke?? Ahhh..ok o! Thats too close!!

From Faji, Massey, Tokunbo, Kakawa, Odunfa.....to Campos. I can name all the family compounds for you. Lol. The Ferreiras, Salavadores, Savages, Vaughans, Willoughbys, Browns, Soares, Fernandez...all the way to Iron gate in upper Tokunbo Street.

The on the other side of Broad street, the Davies', Randles, DaSilvas, Williams', Smithys...

Good to know brother.

Hahahaha

Too close bruv

ProfShymex:
Aareonakakanfo

I think we should create a day where Yoruba folks from Kogi and Kwara will take charge of the thread and talk about their respective states and their plights, while we ask them questions. What do you think?

With that, they'll be able to educate those of us who don't know much about them and their states. I'll see if I can find the thread where I saw loads of Yorubas from Kogi repping Yoruba, and copy all the handles - so we can tag them. Then the likes of: mandarin, yemaldo, PrincessJaneDoe, and tevinsolt.

Is the Commonwealth defined by the borders of the 6 SW states or is it inclusive of all Yorubas?

If it is inclusive, then you don't need a day for them. They should be able contribute on all matters at all times. Besides, how do coordinate a day when they all turn up?

Anyone connected to Yoruba should be able to comment at any time. Perhaps the rules were set at the start and I haven't read from page 1.


Just my humble opinion.

OnReflection:


I was one of ogbeni Aregbe's greatest supporters, to begin with.
But if you ask me for an appraisal of his efforts in the area of public administration, today, it is without equivocation that I would locate him as one of the least effectual leaders in the South West. While I can cite numerous examples of what informs my current view, let me draw on two that do not focus unduly on the state's current financial crises.

(1) Osun state has made the least effort to enshrine a framework of e-government.
- Budgets are hardly ever made public.
- Policy documents are scant
In sum, fiscal transparency is none existent

(2) The implementation of Opon Imo, an initiative which has proved to be both unsustainable and unfit for purpose, was a total sham.
- While we heralded this feat with great aplomb at the time, the truth is; no comphenesive trial was ever carried out.
- Difficult questions which might have helped to address stakeholder concern were fobbed off, in search of "a first" for Osun.
- When the state's chapter of the opposition party (PDP) questioned the involvement of Kabiru Aregbesola in this scheme, a telling response (copied in below was provided by the governor)

Source: http://www.osundefender.org/?p=113070
Note: Please pay close attention to the statement I highlighted and tell me your sensibilities aren't offended by the lame attempt to rationalise nepotism.

P.S - I have deliberately limited my criticism to these two examples because I think Ogbeni is beleaguered enough as it is, at the moment.

Aregbesola's son is the only messiah who can save a project

This is why I stated nepotism and corruption will always ensure that budgets aren't sufficient to complete projects.

OnReflection:


Katz/Iyalode, I don't know if you are aware of this development.
Worth tracking in my view.

Source: https://www.naij.com/603160-opc-splits-factions-inaugurates-new-leaders-photos.html

Yeah worth tracking; I wasn't aware of this but all this splintering will weaken OPC. So now there are 3 different groups who will no doubt not coordinate with each other if the needs arises.

Firefire:


I support the OPC movement from inception.

I witnessed all the terrible tribal war in Lagos: btw. OPC & Ijaw, OPC & Hausa. It was too bloody thou.

We need a military wing to wade-off intruders.

"Omo Oodua ni mi tokantokan" that is one of our slogan.

God bless the Yoruba nation.

Exactly

With BH running amok all over Nigeria and with some folk constantly claiming what isn't theirs, the relevance of OPC can't be overstated.

OnReflection:


Doing just fine bruv.

Listen, it is good to read your posts again. And it is clear you are no less committed now as you were before, to fashioning an "alternative" plan of action which can nudge us from slumber

By the way, after I left the last time, I did facilitate the formation of a online group elsewhere - just as I had sworn to do.
I will shed some more light on this later, since its relative success/failure can aid our understanding of the constraints which rails against collective progress.

I am glad you are sticking to that plan; I do apologize for not following up. I got real busy but I can still lend my voice.

zimoni:


Whaooooo

You remind me of Akindeko Mosque at FUTA. Would you believe if I told you they have weapons in the mosque?

Some years ago(I think 2002) there was a jihad fight at FUTA between the Alfas and christian students. A preacher was preaching somewhere around Akindeko(not near the mosque ooo), an Alfa went to meet him and beat the preacher to stupor(All the Alfas are martial artist. By Alfa I mean the guys who wear three quarter, not muslims in general). People hear him shouting and went out to free him, they later descended on the Alfa and gave him the beating of his life.

The Alfa's colleague called an emergency jihad prayer and started attacking after the prayer. Akindeko boys were waiting for them but when they finisheded prayer and brought about their weapons Akindeko boys ran.

They ran to get weapons and launch return leg. They had upper hand because Akindeko boys are many than the Alfas. They have always had beef because the Alfas always complain whenever Akindeko boys are watching their Jogunomi(porn) in midnight(no pocketing). Mopol were invited to quell the fight, the authority later shut the school.

The so-called preachers also have their own fault. They always disburb people with their preaching wahala.

I remember a 500-L so-called pastor student was beaten by the security because he was preaching inside Big LT in 2004. It lead to crisis and authority shut the school.

Infact, if I had my way, I would ban the two religions. Wahala esin mejeeji ti po ju. Kilode.

I think the followers of both foreign religions are starting to create and cause nuisance. Actions that highlight intolerance should be banned.

patrickmuf:
I'm from Cross River but to be honest I love it here...Did my youth service at Ife North LGA 2yrs ago...
I appreciate the quality of post/posters here...Kat, Dayo, Gbawe and others here represent maturity...

Thanks and welcome.

PrincessJaneDoe:


Amen sister! I am with you on this one.

PrincessJaneDoe:

lol, I didn't even look at the moniker before responding. I was too eager to type my agreement.
Pa Kats, please accept my apologies

First you called me a girl and then you upgraded me to a Pa.

How did I offend you Iya? Kini mo se?


E jo ema binu. O ri idoba le ni mo wa.

modath:



You & ileke are not getting me...

The reference to quota system, fed xter / freedom of movement is to drive home the kind of mentality that exists in this country....

Most state schools have a different fee for non indigent vut it is usually in the 20-50% band.. 300% will not happen.

& the thing about going to their state will not hold water.

Probably wike did that & is hoping for a 50% increase after NEGOTIATION..

Why not 300%, heck why not 600%?

If his intention is to de-congest his state, he is at liberty to do that as long as he has the support of the voters in Rivers.

It is high time, everyone goes to develop their states and stop flooding into any state that is making progress. Let all citizens go and attack their reps and governors and demand accountability instead of protesting in another state. When Nigerians start demanding accountability from their LG because they are discriminated against in another LG, then Nigeria will start making progress.

There needs to be a radical paradigm shift for there to be progress.