Nairaland Forum

sephia: Will JM really be good for Chelsea? Our style has changed and if JM comes there might be a lot of casualties. I'm a big fan of JM but i like the footie being played by MAZACAR but it's hard to see JM playing the trio.
It's not really his style. Will JM be a curse or blessing? Food for thought.

Good question. We'll most likely win the league next season, do well in the CL, probably win back to back titles. However, with this comes the insane spending, siege mentality, bad press, even less chances for youngsters, dismantling of the youth football framework, to name a few.

Is this the way to go, I guess time will tell.

dayokanu:

When I see Marin something reminds me of Nateevs

You are scoring points abi?
Ibime is filling your head with filth.

God help you if I jam you for road. Erase that thought, I go knock you inside ground.

Ibime: Association trained spot is not the reason Moses was chosen and given spot on the team. Don't gimme that nonsense.

In terms of association spot we only need 4 and already had Cahill, Cole, Lampard, Sturridge, Bertrand, Turnbull

Moses was signed because they wanted a winger/pseudo-striker so Torres would not feel under any pressure and also because of green passport tings.

I'm trying to understand at what point these players stop developing. Lukaku they say is going back out on loan. Thomas Kalas is doing splendidly at right back at Vitesse but they'll probably loan him again. KDB is ripe for first team action yet they are talking of another loan/sale. I don't even know what the plan is for Cech/Courtois situation. Not forgetting Piazon and Van Aanholt who can pad up the squad but who I will say could still profit from a Premier League loan.

Actually for PL, we need 8. But I do understand the other reasons you are attacking.

Victor Moses fills a an association-trained spot which KDB will not.

Sebi you said KDB is the least of our worries, we have similar players to him and priorities lie elsewhere? Anyway his agent constantly denies the rumours saying they are waiting for the manager to be confirmed to know their next move.

Other views are that he can't sign with Dortmund as Chelsea have agreed to use him in a deal to bring in Schurrle. If he (KDB) refuses Leverkusen, then Chelsea will have to stump the cash Leverkusen are asking for.

dayokanu: Juan Mata currently holds the medals for the

WORLD CUP, EURO CUP, CHAMPIONS LEAGUE and EUROPA CUP

I am sure the original author of that quote used Fernando Torres but you changed the name.
You sha can't give him praise.

coogar:

reaping where torres sowed and obese charlatans like ibime would still berate torres' strength..... did you see how torres räped luisao(one of the toughest defenders in europe)? the goalie fouled torres but nando refused to fall down showing an amazing upper body strength before tucking in the goal!

He must be the first striker in hsitory to get this much criticism after scoring 21 goals in a single season.
He had one opportunity to put his team in a good position in a final, he did and still gets abuse.

Demba Ba got a medal. How's that? He's not even registered.

dayokanu:

I am certain I made this assertion way before you even understood what it meant

But you kept hiding, supporting those who held opposing views and acting like you didn't say it.
Infact you were the first person to say.

Amazing moment. Though Europa League, the feeling is overwhelming.

Yesssssssss!

Ramires has not been featuring for Brazil consistently in a long time now. If I am right, it's been about a year he's been in and out. He works hard but very loose in possession. Brazilians don't really like that.

dayokanu:

In the same time frame, Real madrid has Spent a similar amount on players, Won the league 3 times, Changed coaches 10 times, Won 0 Champions League,Crashed out of CL second round 4-5 times in a row

They could have won more titles. The season with Pelegrini in charge comes to mind. Being directly up against arguably the best team in the world, the odds are stacked against ones championship hopes.

sephia: I saw this online. Assuming the info is correct.
My observation is Ivan, Mata, Ramires are underpaid. Terry, Torres and Mikel are overpaid.


Here is what each player at Chelsea is earning:

Eden Hazard - £185,000
Fernando Torres - £175,000
John Terry - £175,000
Frank Lampard - £140,000
Ashley Cole - £120,000
Petr Cech - £100,000
Gary Cahill - £80,000
David Luiz - £75,000
John Obi Mikel - £75,000
Juan Mata - £67,000
Daniel Sturridge - £60,000
Ramires - £55,000
Oscar - £40,000
Paulo Ferreira - £40,000
Ryan Bertrand - £40,000
Marko Marin - £35,000
Cesar Azpilicueta - £30,000
Victor Moses - £30,000
Branislav Ivanovic - £28,500
Ross Turnbull - £17,000
Oriol Romeu - £15,000

I remember it being reported when Mata signed that he will be on a sub-90k wage. I don't believe that of Ferreira. Didn't he signed a 4-year contract on 80k four years ago?

Ibime: Everything I've said above is true of Nateevs. He was jumping for joy when we signed Benayoun and creaming over Marin on summer tour and always shouting why isn't Marin playing. . . till he saw Marin playing and learned why.

All the other stuff I've typed is indisputable. Everybody knows it. The only one where I have used some powers of deduction is that Nateevs must be a small guy in real life which explains his distaste of players who have physical strength.
Take it easy? Jah bless, me easy mohn! I'm in Jamaica celebrating Bob Marley day. Just bought this from a yard man yesterday and the ninja Nateevs was blowing me high.

Any lies you like make you add join. I don tire to dey follow you argue.
Meanwhile I sent you a PM. Just wanted to tell you to take it easy.

ritchboy:

I think he's going to deny the "Lampard was 'chasing fullbacks' that 'never crossed the halfway line'." bit, oh wait...

sephia:

You don't say.

I don't know why this is difficult to get.
You can speak up for something yet not be a fan of it.
At the same time, criticize something and not be a hater of it.

sephia:

Nateevs is it true?

Hehehe. You dey mind the fat bloke?
Creaming himself over Marin and Benayoun. .

I tell him to back it up he is talking about fireflies.

This one is on the loose with more lies. Mate, I have stopped paying attention to your rubbish. If it bothers you so much, find the post and paste them here.

Your list is dubious! You listed outright duds and crackheads that would fail in any system just to make an argument!
Some where past their sell dates (Shevchenko) some where not flops in the real sense of the word (Crespo)
Some where simply not given the time to show their potential (Sturridge,Pizarro)

My list does not explain every intention I have. I could be writing a book on this if I could. I try to summarize my points as best as I can. Sometimes I may not get the important points across, it doesn't mean I intend to obfuscate any point. I don't mind being wrong.

My initial intention of adding Carlotn Cole and DiSanto on that list was to explain that the system created by JM did not allow for young strikers to get a chance. This is something I intended to deal with in my first response to Guapo. I went back and found that I omitted it.


With regards to past "sell-by date", it must interest you to know that Shevchenko scored 28 goals in the season before he joined. You cannot tell me he went from scoring 28 goals to total oblivion.

On Crespo not being a flop, I did not say he was. I said strikers failed to hit their mark. No Chelsea striker in that time established themselves as a renowned striker. They scored far few goals for supposed strikers at big clubs.

It's fast becoming a trend that most of these strikers scored pretty well until they joined us.

But of course you would omit the fact that he went on to become the top scorer the next season outscoring the best player on the planet at the time

This is what happens when you join the debate in the middle and you deliberately ignore past posts so as not to understand my views. I need you to look at my earlier posts and confirm that I touched this issue. Then I went on to explain why it happened. No, I did not omit it as including it and talking about it backs up my point.

Sturridge was not a failure at Chelsea! In the only half season he was given an opportunity to play he scored in double digits in the league! You need me to proof that ninjas like Torres stunted Lukaku and Sturridge's growth at Chelsea? Lmao why was Benitez hired?

I never called Sturridge a failure at Chelsea. Torres did not stunt Lukaku's growth at Chelsea. If Torres was scoring goals, you won't say the same. A decision was made for Lukaku to lose weight and go on loan. Lukaku would not have had the number of games required to do that. Nobody, not even Steve Clarke knew Lukaku would turn out to be a success. Not even I who has been following the kid since Chelsea first took interest in him at 15.

Torres did not kill Sturridge's growth at Chelsea. I will not accept the fact that Managers knew that Sturridge will bail them out, yet they stuck with Torres. Never.

And why did we employ Benitez, because he was the only top manager one willing to take on a six month contract while Chelsea sorted out Pep. Every other reason is fabricated to suit a purpose.

El Guapo: Nateevs, I dont think u can be a bigger fan of Nando like me.

Contrary to the opinion you have, I am not a fan of Torres. I am one of the very few who opposed the transfer on here. My argument only intends to highlight a problem. Nothing more.

dayokanu: He would tell you strikers cant be overrated and I asked him if he has heard of Alfonso Alves who has a similar pedigree to Kezman

Cos this Chelsea na him dey hold players boot from scoring

Of course. Because I am waiting for you to tell me how to score 105 goals by mistake.
And going on to score only 4 goals once he moved sides.

Same reason Anelka score only 1 league goal once he moved sides.
Same reason Ba has scored only 2 league goals doing the same.



------------------------------------

And I don't know if you were the one over-hyping Alfonso Alves. I don't remember any hype. Astute followers of the game turned a blind eye and that's why he could only get a move to Middlesborough. There's a universe of difference in scoring 46 goals and 105.

A-40:

Kezman - Dud,overrated! Failure to produce anywhere else shows this

Mutu - Cokehead abi na Chelsea system introduce am to cocaine?

Crespo - Wasn't a failure at Chelsea! 20 goals in 49 games is hardly a bad return! Sure beats Torres's

Carlton Cole - Hahahaha a universally acknowledged bust na him you list as one of your proofs that Chelsea system isn't working!

Shevchenko - Did Mourinho even want him? Aside from that he was almost 30 and also didn't get much playing time

Pizarro - Had little or no playing time! Was a backup option

Di Santo - Another bum! You can't keep blaming the playing system with bums like Cole and Di Santo for goodness sake! These guys wouldn't hit water if you threw em off a boat

Torres - The biggest flop of em all

Sturridge - Even with limited playing time he scored double digits in the league! Yall didn't give him a chance to prove himself because of the elephant in the room (Torres)

By the way Pizarro was 3 months shy of his 29th birthday when he was acquired

11 strikers all have a reason. Even if 3 other strikers fail to perform, we will continue to find a reason why they all didn't perform. So it's not the playing system, it's the system of recruitment right?

Why did Anelka score only 1 league goal for half a season playing in the system coming off the back of scoring 12 for a smaller team?
Why has Ba scored only 2 goals in 13 apps coming off the back of scoring 12 for a smaller team?



And please stop saying this.

Sturridge - Even with limited playing time he scored double digits in the league! Yall didn't give him a chance to prove himself because of the elephant in the room (Torres)

Until you can prove to me where any manager had a gun to their head to pick players, I am going to take this as a fabricated story aimed at distorting the course of the debate. I am not buying this.

dayokanu:

Do you other to look at the peculiar situation of each striker?

Every striker you quoted which one has thrived at the top level post Chelsea?

Chelsea buys a top player already on the downward trail and blae the system for it

How many of these strikers have done well post Chelsea?

Is it Crespo, Kezman Sheva Carlton Cole, Di Santo etc

If Chelsea was the problem at least they should been doing well when they leave Chelsea like in the case of Sturridge who was mismanaged just to accomodate the Failure Fernandud

Absolute garbage.
Crespo was 27 when he joined Chelsea.
Kezman was 25
Carlton Cole grew up in the academy, joined the first team proper at 19.
Mutu joined Chelsea at 23.
Pizzarro at 27.
Torres at 27.
Demba Ba at 27.


Only Sheva and Anelka joined at 29. And only Sheva looked evidently like a striker who may have suffered a massive dip in form from prolonged injuries. Fro the rest, you are talking absolute rubbish.

Chelsea buy strikers on the decline my arrseee.

dayokanu:

Simple question

Kezman spent one season in Chelsea before he moved on which club post Chelsea did he reenact his pre Chelsea form.

No striking hype? ? Alfonso Alves says hi

I don't per-take in deliberate over-simplification of very complex matters.
11 strikers fail to hit their mark at Chelsea and you are asking me ONE SINGLE question in defense?

Unless you can tell me what how to score 105 times by mistake, I am not paying attention to your fabricated stories.

dayokanu: In 2004/2005 EPL season

Gudjohnsen scored 12 goals
Drogba scored 10 goals
Joe Cole scored 8 goals
Robben scored 7 goals

Excuse me. What is this supposed to do? Accentuate my points or nullify them.

dayokanu: In 2004/2005 EPL season
Kezman played in about 5 clubs post Chelsea, Did he succeed anywhere else? or was it Drogba, Mourinho and Chelsea tactics that still held his legs?

Kezman was all hype the same way the Alfonso Alves was or what should we blame for Alfonso ALves a player with similar reputation as Kezman that failed?

Mate, there is no such thing as a striking hype. You cannot put the ball in the net 105 times by mistake, hype or whatever you choose to call it. Kezman scored 105 goals for PSV prior to his Chelsea move.

Strikers are humans whose level of output heavily depend on a certain set of pre-conditions working in tandem with their unique ability. Alter the pre-conditions and you affect the output. Above all, it's the confidence that suffers. When confidence wanes, they start trying too hard. When they start trying too hard, the goals dry up. Simple as.


Kezman
Mutu
Crespo
Carlton Cole
Shevchenko
Pizarro
**Anelka
Di Santo
Torres
Sturridge
Ba



All were hypes abi. This is the long list of strikers that have failed to hit their mark at Chelsea. The funny thing is that there are no Chelsea strikers outside of this list. Not any one that instated themselves as a renowned EPL striker. The whole thing was built around Drogba who turned out to become the biggest beneficiary.




--------------------------------------------------------------
**Anelka scored 12 goals for the "mighty" Bolton in the first half of the season, he scored only one goal for the other half at Chelsea. The next season he will go on and score 20 goals but the important reasons why that happened are :-

1. It was the first time the style was genuinely changed to favour putting the ball on the ground. A style that favoured Anelka's play.
2. He played until February when Scolari was fired, as the main striker.


After Phil, style reverted back. Anelka moved back to wing-forward, he never made over 15 goals again.

Guapo.

Stop trying to re-write history. Your posts look to me that you are telling us about Chelsea from what you read off wikipedia. What healthy competition are you talking about? Let's start from 2004 - the year you've chosen.

JM came into Chelsea playing a diamond. He fast ditched this style for a 4-3-3 - a style that suited DD more than any other striker. The style relied on fast-moving, agile counter-attacking wingers/wing-forwards that were devastating on the break. The style also relied heavily on the kicking ability of Petr Cech who could find a pass over 60 yards. This pass was most often intended for DD - who was and still is one of the best strikers at hold up play. DD finds a player in midfield mostly Lampard - who was one of the best one-time passers - Lampard's duty always was to shift play to the wings.

Robben, Duff, Joe Cole and SWP reveled in this. Lampard never stopped his run and knew very well just how to time his runs. He arrived late into the opposition box and scored always. This was the bedrock of Chelsea's play. JM knew it. It was an effective formula as it won games. JM knew that we were going to win the league. So he created his untouchables. DD, Lamps, Maka, JT, Cech - the main players that effectively executed the style - and every other dude was rotated. So mate no, there was no healthy competition between strikers.


At this time, the style became a double-edged sword. One that will define the future of Chelsea strikers and managers for years to come.

Meteja Kezman came into Chelsea on the back of a big rep. Even given the no 9 shirt. He just died. Because he could not fit into the style. He could not do what DD did and had to play as a wing-forward rather than a focal point. JM didn't care about building the club. He had a billionaire owner who could buy him a replacement. Kezman lasted one single season.

Adrian Mutu already fell out with JM early on and stopped playing for Chelsea Oct 2004 (Cocaine rubbish) Crespo was sent on loan to Milan before the season started. The only other reliable striker was Eidur who was ditched when the diamond was not working. He was moved into an engineered midfield role but closer to the striker. So where's the healthy competition?

So we have a new term - splitting the goals.

How can it not be the system when a striker who scored 14 goals before joining us now barely gets shots on goal? How can the same scenario be true for two strikers and it's not the system?

Check out opta stats of chances created per game for strikers. These stats have been posted here time and time again long before Ba joined.

dayokanu:

This retort is on the back of lack of deductive reasoning.

Compare 0 goals in 777mins to 2 goals in 800.

I would take those 2 goals over 0

Good for u. I am sorry but I wouldn't. Because my points converge at a technically sound and totally coherent reasoning - that Chelsea don't create adequate chances.

I can understand why you will never agree with this. It renders your whole argument useless as admitting this partly admits that Torres should shoulder far less blame that given to him.

Why should I accept 2 goals 800 minutes? Just because some dude believes it is "better" than 0 in 777?

A-40:

Does he have to play for me to ask why he hasn't scored a league goal in 2013

Well he doesn't. You are entitled to ur views. Just like others are when they counter-ask about Ba's performance.


And yes, it's got every thing to do with every thing.

His whole argument is on the back of spite, totally bereft of any sound technical analysis. Calling 2 goals in 800 minutes success just to make futile point.

dayokanu:

2 goals in 800mins is relative success when you compare it to 0 goals in 777 minutes

This is unintelligent analysis.

Every time you analyse Ba, you make relative. Then you go ahead and analyse Torres in a stand alone scenario. It's fraudulent.

What we do is analyse both strikers' performances, we make them relative of one another and conclude that their output is below and point the root cause of that somewhere else.

It funny that this root cause, we have identified long before Ba joined.