@ Frosbel and others,

Looking at this bible verse (John 8:58 Jesus says,"Before Abraham was, I am." ) critically, could any one ascertain the reason(s) why the Jews wanted to stone our Lord Jesus Christ(John 8:59) given what was uttered by Jesus Christ albeit the Jews of those days saw it as blasphemy?

More so, reading the book of John 10:24-38. Agreed Jesus spoke a lot of the Father but taking a look at John 10:38c(my own making)-that the Father is in me, and I in him. Please what does this make out?

Btw, I am quite sure you would agree with me that the Father is basically a title and not a name, the same applies to the Son and Holy Spirit.


@ Frosbel, where was Jesus Christ before his existence(coming) on earth? Would it be possible to put one or two of your responses within the context of John 1: 1-3? Otherwise feel free to tackle the question in the best way you could possibly do.

@Sylviiluv,

I know little about Olumba Olumba Obu, albeit as a kid I did attend with my mum, the Brotherhood of the Cross and Star(BCS) in Warri sometime between 1985-1993.

Even as a kid, I could recall I hated this so called BCS each time I am coerced to go to the church by my mum; I never saw BCS as a church due to seemingly practices that run amok of biblical doctrines.

My spirit was mostly aggrieved each time I am being told to go to BCS,I was only fascinated as a kid whenever it was time for 'love feast'(item 7) otherwise the service was always boring to me.On Sunday service could take almost 5 hours and yet nothing concrete to gain except the glorification of the name of Olumba Olumba.

I remembered having an almanac and a picture frame with the name Olumba Olumba Obu inscribed on it and also written lord of lords and king of kings.

A weird testimony I heard back then in the church was how Olumba Olumba appeared to a man who was in difficulty and did proffer solutions to the man in need. Anyway, I was gullible enough to believe the said testimony.

I am short of words to describe my little experiences with the style of worship and spiritualism borne in the name of BCS.

Even friends back then were always mocking me,and teased me that Olumba sucks blood,anyway I am not sure about this assertion of blood sucking.

I am not sure if we ever used the name of Jesus Christ in prayers or even in songs.

Maybe, now the church is a bit reformed.

I do not know how to classify BCS, but I see it as a sect that is tied to apostasy.

Is Olumba Olumba the comforter? So the mortal Olumba has turned to a comforter-the Holy Spirit?

Please get out of this delusion!

What is the essence of bowing down to the ground as a Christian ?

Need I remind you that most songs or hymns in BCS are mostly tailored to the name of Olumba Olumba.

It is no news that members of BCS usually would have to pay homage to the birth place of the founder-Olumba Olumba Obu(000). I wonder if there is any place the bible talks about a holy pilgrimage? Somewhere within Calabar or Uyo so to speak is mostly visited by BCS members as a mecca of 'sort'.

More so,I wonder who the new Olumba is now? I am fully aware that the founder died some years ago and the baton or mantle of leadership has been passed on to one of his sons.

If I were to advise you, I do rather tell you to quit BCS and seek a better place of worship.

This sounds more of a hasty generalization.

Despite the fact, that I do not see much difference between the Catholic Church and paganism, I believe wholeheartedly that some members of the church have got sound christian character and orientation.

More so, I have got some (fe)male catholic companions that are indeed 'practising' christians even though we differ in some key christian doctrines.

Marrying a supposedly 'born again' christian these days is no guarantee that one's marriage would be enjoyable and successful.

It is always wise for anyone who wants to go into marriage to assess his/her partner critically and not just based on the fact that (s)he is so religious or attend a particular church or not.



Realistically speaking, I believe its rather myopic to state that one should not marry a person based on the fact (s)he attends a particular denomination.

@Ubenedictus,

Please treat the issues I raised and stop personalizing issues.

Need I remind you that being a Christian by tradition,birth, religion or even denomination is not a 100 percent guarantee that one indeed is a child of God.

If there is anything you and I need to know is that Christianity is not rhetoric,it involves personal sacrifice and ultimately displeasing oneself most times in order to stick to what God wants.

Methinks, you are always fond of attacking 'virtual' personalities rather than addressing issues holistically.

Kindly feel free to debunk my assertions of the similarities between the Roman Catholic and most protestant churches, albeit using the Bible as a standard for your critique.

Sometimes, I wonder if there is any difference between the Roman Catholic Church and the present day Protestant Churches.

Frankly,I do not see any major difference both in doctrines and outlook.

Just three main points to buttress my assertion.

The Roman Catholic Church operates a Bazzar system(highest bidder option) in the name of harvest,the daughter church-protestant church(most and not all)hoard miracles and sell all spiritual materials like apron,prayer book,anointing oil,etc to their members.

The Roman Catholic Church hinges all authorities of the church on the POPE,its more of a taboo by any priest within the Roman Catholic Church to speak against the actions of the POPE even when the POPE errs being a mortal like every one of us. As a matter of fact, most catholics belive more in what the POPE says compared to what the word of God(Bible) says.

The same applies to most protestant churches, most members believe more in what their pastors/prophets/bishops say rather than what the Bible says.Even the protestant flocks would tell anyone who disagrees with what their supposedly 'spiritual' memtors taught them, 'touch not my annointed'. Suffice to say that both the POPE and most protestant church leaders are more or less idolized and hero-worshipped by their members.

Also, there is a noticeable seggregation between the poor and the rich in any one of the two churches. The rich are virtually the elders and deacons in any one of the two churches. You need to be financially empowered to have a voice in these two church systems.

Kindly share your thoughts on the smilarities between the Roman Catholic Church and the present day protestant church.

@OP,

There is nothing suggesting this to be a fulfillment of God's prophecy.

NO!

@Olaadegbu,

Kindly treat issues and not personalities.

Civility calls for issues to be addressed and not the other way round.

The video you posted,harped on the spirit of witchcraft in the church.

More so, the man of God being interviewed talked on how supposedly men of God are 'hoarding' miracles by means of informing their church audience to purchase 'spiritual materials' -handkerchief and other associated items.

I am sure the question I raised on this subject matter is in tandem with it.

Need I remind you that I have posed similar questions to you on another post and you blatantly refused to give your understanding of the bible verse -Deuteronomy 14:22-29.

Pastor Kun, can bear me witness of such post,he indeed stated that the day you would respond to the bible verse, would be the day he would stop posting. Anyway,I am cocksure Pastor Kun stated that on a lighter note.

Please no hard feelings as Christians. More so, I do not know you in person. I would oblige you give feedback on the bible verse. Your own original thoughts is what I would definitely appreciate and not what your church says.

Anyway, please pardon me if you perceive me to be 'unlearned' or 'unschooled' like you in biblical issues or even in academia.

I am just a guy who likes to learn from others and I detest traditions that are seemingly entrapped and embellished in falsehood.

More so, I do not have a religious spirit or tied to accepting everything from all and sundry.

Habitually, I love doing a critique of events,beliefs and works of myself and others.

God bless as you heed to my request,otherwise,feel free to ignore it.No qualms man!

You are still a blessing to most people(including I) on this forum based on your several posts!

I believe the world is so wide for us as human beings not to find space to cohabit together in spite of differences in idiocy,ethnic inclinations,racial outlook or religious/cultural beliefs!!

Have a wonderful day!!!

@Olaadegbu,

You have dodged my question again!

Methinks, your answer is indeed metaphorical and its a mix of innuendo as well.

Your response posits that anyone who does not believe in your own bible stance or doctrine(s) as the case maybe has a rebellion spirit. What a suicidal with hypocritical remark!

My advice is that you need to break away from some 'wishy-washy' church doctrines that lack biblical veracity.

Otherwise,prove from the Bible where compulsory tithing of money is a must for Christians.

If there is one negative attitude we need to correct as educated Nigerians is the quest of using questions to answer questions. Its just an anomaly!

Without mincing words the original Sabbath day was Saturday.

History has it that the Roman Catholic church did change the day from Saturday to Sunday.

I would equally like to say that the true meaning of Sabbath is 'REST'.

This 'REST' can only take place during the rulership of Christ in the new heaven and earth.

If there was anything that gave me much concern about a month ago, it was the Sabbath day but in a way I ran into a write-up on the NET which covers the subject matter by Marion Branham and someone else(poor me!has forgotten the name), after reading through I had a 'rest' to my troubled spirit.I had earlier posted a link on this forum maybe a month ago or so on the same subject matter.

The Sabbath from what I understood is beyond Saturday or even the sun-worship day -Sunday.

I rest my case for now while opened to other scriptures and perhaps further study.

May the good Lord grant us mercy!

@Olaadegbu,

I believe the man of God was right in his assertion based on the scripture. I endorsed all he said 100%. More so,I have had practical experiences with some of all these 'supposedly' men of God who in actuality are false teachers or what the MOG referrred to as spirit of witchcraft.

This brings you to my question on the issue of compulsory tithing.DO you not see this false teaching as well?

Please meditate or ponder on DEUTERONOMY 14: 22-29, and kindly inform us what your take on this is? Should we tithe in money or agricultural produce?

Did our Patriarch-Abraham, tithe his sweat or spoils of war?

More so, when Jesus confronted the Pharisees and their ilk, was it stated that their tithing was in money or agricultural produce?

More so, was money not in use during this era?

More so, is tithing part of the ceremonial law or not?

What do you understand by the term 'store house' as commonly quoted by pastors in the book of Malachi?

Lastly, is tithing not synonymous to giving?. Hence,should giving be compulsory or a voluntary action done with cherfulness?

Please do not shy away from this question because this video you posted talked about false teachings.

If there is anything, I know you most likely detest is falsehood. Am I right or wrong sir?

We all look forward to your candid response. I would be glad you address all my questions sequentially as much as you could. I do appreciate your on original thoughts or as led by the Spirit on these questions

I beg you do not respond to my questions with questions.Its definitely the typical Nigerian mentality and I would always perceive that as deceit. Our yes should be yes while our no should be no. Kindly address the issues and afterwards, you are free to ask questions.

God bless us all, as we seek the truth and count on the mercy and grace of the most High God.

@ All, please I have not posted this for us to rubbish the virtual personality of Olaadegbu.Its strictly for discourse and learning points as well. We do not know it all but we can always synergize on the word of God to get the truth from what it is not.

@Pastor Kun,

Perhaps you are a bit critical of Oyedepo. I do not think the whole message in the post is entirely selfish-driven.

More so, the onus is on members of his church to follow the right path based on the scripture and not follow the man called David Oyedepo. Majority of Nigerians need to correct and equally scrutinize every word that comes from their various heads(church leaders).

Need I remind you, that even most church members these days hardly read their bibles outside the church. So what do you expect? If you ask a typical Nigerian church member any question, he/she would always tell you that my pastor says this or that and NOT what the bible says.

I am of the opinion that the sheep(church member) equally has a role to play even though the shepherd(church leader/pastor)has a much more enormous role to play. Recall,that salvation is a one-man race.

My own take is that poverty with our 'failing economic system' has taken a negative toll on the psyche of Nigerians,that most of us see the church as the 'only' veritable avenue of breaking away from the vicious cycle of poverty and squalor. This works anyway based on faith, religious idiosyncrasies or what some one else might call stroke of luck!

The only snag I have with prosperity message is the way/method its being peddled by 'supposedly' men of God. Most times, it leaves the poor in the society poorer while giving them false hope and taking away their scarce 'little resources' all in the name of giving or sowing.

I am equally at pains when I see gigantic church structures, yet most of the poor brethren cannot be catered for.

Why would a church build schools yet most members cannot send their kid/wards to the same schools. Such schools these days belong to the 'exclusive class' in the society.

I have always asked a question, if the western missionaries built schools for the commoners, why would the Nigerian religious organisations headed and attended by Nigerian locals not do the same?

What a hypocrisy in the Nigerian church nay all the religious organisations in Nigeria! Perhaps, the Nigerian mentality by default is 'self,self.....self...and no one else....'

If there is any 'commodity' that sells like a 'wild fire' amongst the 'poor', its definitely the promise of
'instant' miracles. This is one area,men have exploited over the years to enrich themselves by means of manipulation of the belief system of men.

May the good LORD grant us wisdom and grace of fellowship!

@All,

Let us not use our limited senses to decipher whom the Almighty God is. Human vision or capability is so limited to know the all-knowing Lord.

@Ubenedictus,

I asked in what name did the apostles baptize converts during their days on earth and not how they did it?

Please cite from the bible, in what name the baptisms as recorded in the bible done by the Apostles.


@ Frosbel,

I believe there is only one name given to man to be saved as well as to be baptized in,without mincing words the name Jesus Christ represents the name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit. The Apostles caught this revelation during the Pentecost from the Holy Spirit.

@ Trinity Apologist

I asked a question. If the invisible God is a living spirit, so who is the Holy Spirit? Are we trying to separate God as a living 'holy' spirit from the Holy Spirit? Trinity is a pagan doctrine as far as I am concerned.

The living God = The Holy Spirit='Other manifestations beyond our human reasoning'

Let us all be guarded that God is beyond the trinity dogma. The Almighty can manifest in whatsoever inform 'HE' pleases and in so many dimensions. Our Creator is beyond our myopic and 'limited' imaginations.

Need I remind you that in the old testament, God manifested as a rock, pillar of cloud and fire,burning bush,etc.

He who believes in Jesus Christ, does the will of the Father and the Holy Spirit of God operates in such a person's life. Every 'born again' has a measure of the Holy Spirit in his/her life.Kindly note that this measure of the Holy Spirit differs across individuals. As a matter of fact, this is what most of us call anointing.

May the good Lord grant us wisdom and mercy!

@ All contributors and viewers,

This thread has been quite exploratory considering our dissenting views on our understanding of the Holy scriptures.

I believe what is of essence is to treat the subject matter via scriptures which Frosbel from my own understanding has been doing even though I do not fully agree with some of his own views.

The point I have always said we should ponder is this if the Almighty God is an invisible being,thus, he is a 'Living Spirit' and this makes our God a 'HOLY SPIRIT'. Right or wrong?

More so, I am sure without doubt most of us know fully well that the word 'God' is a title.

Let us equally recall the baptism of our Saviour- The lord Jesus Christ, how the Spirit descended upon him like a dove.

I also believe that our God manifested in the flesh as a Son, as well as a'Heavenly Father'.

I have always wanted bible scholars in this forum to adduce the reason why the apostles adopted the name of Jesus Christ as the baptism formula mostly cited in the bible and not in the name of the three titles or the supposedly trinitarian dogma as instructed by Jesus Christ. Could the apostles be termed as disobedient servants in this case? God forbid!

I await a response from all your bible scholars on the reasons for the 'paradigm' shift from baptism in the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit. Also recall, that name is singular and not pluralized-'in the name of......

Hint: In case you are not sure of how baptism was done by the apostles and the early church, just 'google' it.

May God help us all! Let me say that we cannot fully fathom whom God is. Its not possible!

@Frosbel, no qualms. I know you have been quite busy responding to our responses.

@ Frosbel, Goshen360,Trueslight, et al.

Still on the water baptsim formula question. Let me reiterate it once more, how come most of the baptisms as done in the bible were in Jesus name and the not the name of the father, son, and holy spirit.

Hint: History suggests that the roman catholic church might have 'tinkered' with the baptismal formula to suit the pagan doctrine of the trinity.


I am convinced some of us are truth seekers and and an avid readers.

I am a 'little' semblance of your ilk becuase I do not fully support traditions that are tweaked in falsehood.

Anyone can do a 'google search' on this matter if one cares enough.

Perhaps, anyone who has access to this 'The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263' can equally read it and check if of a truth the baptismal formula was changed or not.

More so, these links would be of help to anyone who might be in doubt of the change in baptism formula.

http://www.upcbaypoint.com/Articles2/early_church_baptism.html

http://soul-net.freeservers.com/Baptism.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/armageddon/HistoricalBaptism.htm

http://www.zimbio.com/The+Acts+of+the+Apostles/articles/NOzb41ZPnVv/Baptismal+Formula+History+Scripture

http://www.globalanswers.us/PDFs/Christian%20Baptism.pdf

http://www.torahofmessiah.com/matt2819.htm

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/419748_baptism-in-the-name-of-the-lord-jesus-christ

http://www.endtimesministry.com/biblestudies/baptism.html

@ All, please let us be guided by truth rather than traditions that run amok to what was earlier done by the Apostles.

More so, as Christians, the onus is on us to study the bible and history most times serves as a good reference point to tracing the truth in one's beliefs. We are indeed in a 'fortunate' 'INFOage' in a way; let us explore the WEB the more on other salient issues. I believe the spirit of God is embedded on most of these eye-opening scriptures!

Mind you, I hate to say this, I have a strong aversion and derision for denominations, I am looking forward to a church and not RCCG or Deeperlife or Winners or Catholic or JW,or Oneness, just name it. Too much of confusions from multifarious sects and denominational dogmas!

We are seemingly 'near' what the book of Daniel 12:4 stated about extensive knowledge base!


I am awaiting a contrary opinion on this baptism in JESUS name and not in the TRINITARIAN formula backed up with scriptures and perhaps historical facts culled from websites.

I want to learn please! God bless us all!!

If we or I alone might have erred from peddling false doctrine(s), may the most High God grant us mercy and grace(AMEN)!!!

@Frosbel, no qualms. I know you have been quite busy responding to our responses.

@ Frosbel, Goshen360,Trueslight, et al.

Still on the water baptsim formula question. Let me reiterate it once more, how come most of the baptisms as done in the bible were in Jesus name and the not the name of the father, son, and holy spirit.

Hint: History suggests that the roman catholic church might have 'tinkered' with the baptismal formula to suit the pagan doctrine of the trinity.


I am convinced some of us are truth seekers and and an avid readers.

I am a 'little' semblance of your ilk becuase I do not fully support traditions that are tweaked in falsehood.

Anyone can do a 'google search' on this matter if one cares enough.

Perhaps, anyone who has access to this 'The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263' can equally read it and check if of a truth the baptismal formula was changed or not.

More so, these links would be of help to anyone who might be in doubt of the change in baptism formula.

http://www.upcbaypoint.com/Articles2/early_church_baptism.html

http://soul-net.freeservers.com/Baptism.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/armageddon/HistoricalBaptism.htm

http://www.zimbio.com/The+Acts+of+the+Apostles/articles/NOzb41ZPnVv/Baptismal+Formula+History+Scripture

http://www.globalanswers.us/PDFs/Christian%20Baptism.pdf

http://www.torahofmessiah.com/matt2819.htm

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/419748_baptism-in-the-name-of-the-lord-jesus-christ

http://www.endtimesministry.com/biblestudies/baptism.html

@ All, please let us be guided by truth rather than traditions that run amok to what was earlier done by the Apostles.

More so, as Christians, the onus is on us to study the bible and history most times serves as a good reference point to tracing the truth in one's beliefs. We are indeed in a 'fortunate' 'INFOage' in a way; let us explore the WEB the more on other salient issues. I believe the spirit of God is embedded on most of these eye-opening scriptures!

Mind you, I hate to say this, I have a strong aversion and derision for denominations, I am looking forward to a church and not RCCG or Deeperlife or Winners or Catholic or JW,or Oneness, just name it. Too much of confusions from multifarious sects and denominational dogmas!

We are seemingly 'near' what the book of Daniel 12:4 stated about extensive knowledge base!


I am awaiting a contrary opinion on this baptism in JESUS name and not in the TRINITARIAN formula backed up with scriptures and perhaps historical facts as well culled from websites.

I want to learn please! God bless us all!!

If we or I alone might have erred from peddling false doctrine(s), may the most High God grant us mercy and grace(AMEN)!!!

@Goshen360,

I do not wholeheartedly belive in trinity doctrine because our Lord God is one and manifested in the scriptures as a Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the new testament. This is not devoid of the fact that God manifested in several forms as well in the old testament.

A case in point is the command given by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ on the isssue of baptism ditto Matthew 28:19 (ESV).

But if one painstakingly study the bible on the water baptism that was majorly recorded in the bible, it was in JESUS name and not in titles.

This was the same question I posed to Frosbel, unfortunately, he has been too busy to 'shy away' from my question for obvious reasons (this is on a lighter note, Frosbel).

Perhaps, Goshen360, you can equally do well to expatiate why the apostles usually(majority of the water baptism as recorded in the NT) adopted only the name of Jesus Christ and not the three titles.

Methinks, no fleshy human can fully fathom the characteristics or 'personality' of the Almighty God. Our Lord is beyond extra-scientific and scriptural analysis. Our senses are limited to knowing the Almighty in 'HIS' fulness!

I just saw one of your posts earlier on most Christians not fully understanding certain scriptures. I agree with you in whole. So I rest my case even though your answer does not meet my expectations.

We would always have issues with certain doctrines and scriptures but the most important thing is to love the invisible God with all our hearts by trying as much as we could to show love and kindness to our fellow (wo)man irrespective of religious creeds or inclinations.

I wholeheartedly believe that the best way of witnessing Jesus Christ to people is our life styles and NOT through any church dogma.

I am not equally ruling out the fact that you and I including others know fully well that certain doctrines,for an example, tithing, 'if at all it should be practised' must be in agricultural produce and not in monetary form as we were made to believe by most church traditions.
Brother Olaadegbu for reasons I do not know has refused to even address my question on a bible hint in the book of Deutronomy 14:22-29. I am still looking forward to his frank assessment/deductions on tithing from these bible verses.


May the Spirit of the Most High God grant us wisdom to serve HIM aright and for us to 'act god' rather than 'playing god' as supposedly being done in the name of religion or church dogma. The church of God is one and not in denominations.

God bless you all and we rest on HIS everlasting mercy!

@Goshen360,

I have a simple question for you on this trinity dogma or doctrine as the case maybe.


Is father,son and holy spirit names or titles?

@Frosbel,

Thanks for taking your time. I do not think people are 'attacking' you as the case maybe. We might have dissenting views/opinions but civility has dawned on us all to attack issues and not the personality or the virtual 'Frosbel'.

I beg to differ on your response to the water baptism.I would like to point out the fact that most of the water baptisms in the bible as recorded was done in Jesus name and not even the title of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit. Perhaps, you(Frosbel) and some others might prove me wrong in this case.


Anyway, my next question is this: Where was Jesus Christ prior to His Coming to the earth? I expect you to back it up with scriptures.Sure, you would!

Hint, remember Jesus Christ was almost lynched upon by the Pharisees and Sadducee when he told his audience back in the days that before the patriach,Abraham was,I AM.

God bless Frosbel.

@Others,

Please let us all do well not to call Frosbel names or 'attack' him like he earlier stated.

Methinks, Frosbel is an amazing guy with flaws like us all. He cannot be right at all times,just the way we cannot be right at all times as well.

The scripture must be our guide and pray for the Holy Spirit for understanding!

@Frosbel,

Anyway, I must commend you for your tenacity towards exploring biblical knowledge but we equally need to put it into perspectives.

The scripture can always be quoted to suit our desires or thinking pattern but its quite harmful to do so.So caution is the main key or what we can supposedly refer to as wisdom.

One thing I equally know that the bible speaks for itself.Perhaps men being fallible have always misconstrued certain biblical contexts.


Please do justice to my questions. I am sure you are not shying away from it.

If you critically assess your bible on water baptism. Jesus did instruct his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit but if you look at most of the baptisms in the bible;you would clearly observe that the apostles did baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

What could you clearly deduce from the above illustration?

Also, from your write-up, I could deduce that Jesus Christ is in heaven with another personality or an almighty spirit-GOD. Could this my assertion be right from what you have culled and equally stated?

@Frosbel,

You might have addressed some of my questions ditto Olaadegbu.

Please do justice to the other questions below:

More so, if you critically assess your bible on water baptism. Jesus did instruct his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit but if you look at most of the baptisms in the bible;you would clearly observe that the apostles did baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

What could you clearly deduce from the above illustration?

Also, from your write-up, I could deduce that Jesus Christ is in heaven with another personality or an almighty spirit-GOD. Could this my assertion be right from what you have culled and equally stated?

Kindly respond at your convenience.God bless you!

@Olaadegbu,

Your response to my question has not been answered.

Your bible quotation in your response is totally out of context to the bible verse I quoted.

I would like you to apply your own understanding and not what any church leader or organisation tells you.

I believe we are all here to learn and equally to impact unto lives spiritually.

We do not know it all but we can always 'synergize' to get the truth out of falsehood or what supposedly seems right to us.

Kindly do justice to the bible verse(DEUTERONOMY 14:22-29). What could you deduce from this verse? I am asking you for the second time sir!

Please respond to that bible verse and give us all feedback from your understanding of the aforementioned bible verse.

Kindly clear the air on this issue


Thanks and God bless!

@Frosbel,

Could you please pass your comment on the 2 verses brother Olaadegbu quoted.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."(1 Timothy 3:16)

"God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit." "The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1:14), and was "declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness" (Romans 1:4).

More so, if you critically assess your bible on water baptism. Jesus did instruct his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit but if you look at most of the baptisms in the bible;you would clearly observe that the apostles did baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

What could you clearly deduce from the above illustration?

Also, from your write-up, I could deduce that Jesus Christ is in heaven with another personality or an almighty spirit-GOD. Could this my assertion be right from what you have culled and equally stated?


I am not a trinitarian and I believe in ONE ALMIGHTY GOD(JHVH)and I believe in JESUS CHRIST as the Almighty. Perhaps, this defiles human logic and I might as well be unschooled in the word of God but herein lies my belief.

God bless and please do justice to my questions! Cheers!!

@Olaadegbu,

Sometimes you become unnecessarily too critical of those who oppose your biblical views.

This should not be the way to handle issues.

I have observed it and I thought I should make it known to you.

That,Pastor Kun and others are critical of tithing, should make you to equally scrutinize the bible on the subject matter and not to fully harp on what you know or believe to be the truth.

Man's greatest problem has always been traditions and its really difficult to break out of it!

Humans by default show unalloyed resistance to change even though change is inevitable for the progressive-minded.

After all, commonsense though its not common for most people these days,demands that we learn to unlearn and equally unlearn to learn.

I do not believe any one has a monopoly of knowledge nay the word of God.

The question I have for is that should tithing if at all, it should be practised by Christians, be in monetary form or in agricultural produce?

More so, who is now a false prophet in this sense?

Hint: Please study DEUTERONOMY 14:22-29

I await your kind response at your convenience.

God bless you!

How come we get to hear all these strange stories in Nigeria alone?

Now, I realise how religious and hypocritical the Nigerian society is!

Most Nigerians are merely miracle-seekers and not God worshipers.

Albeit, abject poverty or squalor has really had an adverse effect on the Nigerian psyche due to bad and vision-less leadership.

As religious as Nigerians are, our beloved country-Nigeria is still in shambles and degenerating daily!

How I wish we can be so religious to speak the truth as always and shun evils in all its ramifications.

I wouldn't be surprised soonest to see a kid being born with a prototype of a mosque or church....bizzare journalism in a bizzare milieu with people fascinated in bizzare happenings that are not in any way miraculous....this simply shows how gullible we are in this part of the world...

What is even a miracle? This is a question we must critically ask ourselves.To a poor man,who is uneducated,virtually everything is seemingly miraculous but this is not always the case to an enlightened mind.

Without mincing words, most of what we refer to as 'miracles' these days are quite subjective and country specific!

A university graduate in Nigeria would have to pray to God ceaselessly to grant him/her a job but this is not usually the kind of prayer a typical religious German graduate would offer to God.So what is a miracle to a Nigerian graduate would not be a miracle to a religious German graduate. This goes to illustrate that what we classify as miracles in a way are quite subjective and dependent on a country's economic system.

Above all, this does not rule out the fact divine miracles do not happen but I personally have reservations for all these kind of religious bizarre stories that are sentimental in its entirety.

@All,

If of a truth this info is authentic,then this is a man-made philosophy of Christianity.

There is no where in the bible that supports this type of 'covenant offering or partnership'

@OP and others, please permit to digress here a bit.

I am always appalled with all these 'bogus offerings' in the church, yet 80% of church members in Nigerian churches wallow in poverty. I wonder what the church is doing to alleviate the sufferings of most of their church members.
. The biblical principle has always been giving and sharing! I wonder why the modern-day church has ignored this godly principle!

I know someone would say that churches are meant for spiritual edification. A typical church of Christ is not only only for spiritual edification but also bodily edification(Recall the feeding of the 5000 and 4000 people respectively).

A true church would share things in common and give to those in needs.

I absolutely do not see anything against a church purchasing 'fleet of jets or cars or be it trains' in the name of evangelism or soul winning as the case maybe. Methinks, such assets must be used by all and sundry in the church.

Every church member must equally have access to the 'fleet of jets or cars' and such must not be within the reach of only the overseer or senior pastors of such a church. In the church, there should be no partiality or treatment of people as 'VIP' be you a pastor or 'the church financial mogul'.

Every human being ought to be treated with respect no matter our positions.This is key to Christianity, if we are children of God, we ought to 'wane-show off' this godly quality of our Father in Heaven. Albeit,show off in this sense is godly and not evil!

Ostentatiousness and greed are evil attributes that the church ought to address.

It is a mockery to Christianity to see churches trying to compete against one another in the name of stylish edifice and patronage in terms of membership!

Need I remind most folks that most of these church-affiliated universities' school fees and other sundry expenses are way beyond the reach of the children of most church members who give their hard-earned income as offerings and 'tithe of money rather than what the bible stipulates as tithe of farm produce-Deuteronomy 14:22-29'.
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[b]I used to be neutral when it comes to money tithing but I finally got the gospel truth yesterday after painstakingly going through some write-ups/videos as well as this particular scripture in the book of Deuteronomy 14:22-29. I implore anyone who wants to know the gospel truth to read this and find out how tithing should be done if at all one wants to keep up with the weight of the old covenant.

Mind you what Abraham tithed was spoils of war and not his own produce. More so, he tithed to Melchizedek,who was in an order of Priest. A priest is totally different from a Pastor or Bishop or 'GO'. Aside Melchizedek, ONLY the Levites were permitted to collect tithes.More so, never forget that we are now royal priesthood with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ(1 Peter 2:9 ).

Even the most quoted scripture in the book of Malachi,talked on tithe as a farm produce.

If I may ask, what is a store house? Is a store house the same as a church?

Let us stop 'spiritualizing' what is obvious in the bible, a store house is most definitely a warehouse or store for keeping farm produce in this context.

Nothing more than this, after all, this was not a proverb but a hard saying spoken to the Jews by God through the prophet(Malachi).
[/b]

As much as religion remains the opium of the masses, I frankly believe that Christianity is much more than religion,thus, as Christians we must learn to live by the Word as much as we could to separate us from other man-made religions likewise fallacious and wicked 'unchristian' teachings by men who claim to be called by God where as they are busy lining their pockets with 'wads-ego,kudi,owo,dollars,naira,cedis,pounds,euro,yen,just name it all'.

A true church shepherd takes care of his sheep all the time and takes time out to even go looking for the lost sheep. This is love and this is made evident by the priceless price of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. No one does it better than our Lord Jesus Christ but we can learn a lot from him even though we are seemingly not flawless!


The onus is on us to act accordingly as Christians and correct others who are not speaking the truth. More so, I have not said we should challenge these so called men of God but I believe we can correct them in our local churches.

God bless you all! Jesus Christ is Lord and personal Saviour!

Often times, I look back at churches where members in the name of receiving financial blessings from 'God' cast monies at pastors' feet. This is purely contrary to any sound doctrine in the bible.

A classical example in the bible can be found in Acts 4:35 and this was rightly applied to meet the needs of the church(people).

"and laid them at the apostles feet: and distribution was made unto each, according as any one had need."

If there is anything that has not helped the modern-day church,its the pursuit of money and NOT the message.

More so, men have overtime tend to quote scriptures to suit their selfish pursuits.

May God grants us the wisdom to be guided aright in the midst of these self-acclaimed servants of the Most High!

@Frosbel,

If the Sabbath day is Saturday and NOT Sunday, so why are we not keeping to it(SATURDAY) despite the fact that its one of the 10 commandments?

History has it that the Roman Catholic Church did change the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

So many bible commentators have stated that Paul did not imply doing away with the main Sabbath day-Saturday but the other ceremonial Sabbaths in the bible verse below:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." - Colossians 2:16

Anyway, this is quite a contentious topic!

For now, I do not know whose report to believe. So, I am a bit careful here in order not to mislead others by my own stance.

Maybe, in a way I have 'spiritualized' the Sabbath day, quite funny you might say but therein lies the truth as well!

What I know for sure that all the 10 laws must be obeyed,but poor me lacks thorough understanding of the 4th commandment!!

I hope to learn the truth possibly from this forum on this 4th commandment!!!

God bless you all!

@Doracle1,

Love the way you started but you shot yourself on the foot going by your conclusion.Please no hard feelings about this!

What can you deduce from the scripture(John 15:5-6) you quoted?

Kindly reconcile it with 'complete removal of your enemy'.

You cited Pharaoh in the bible. Need I remind you that it was God who hardened Pharaoh's heart and God dealt with him appropriately.

Let us learn to apply scriptures within the right context rather than quoting out of context.

On a final note, let us pray aright most especially for the salvation of others and the grace to always pray,think,meditate,talk and act right.

@ Frosbel and Olaadegbu,

I would rather advise both of you to stop throwing tirades on each other. It does Christianity no good likewise your virtual personalities.

What is of import is to discuss issues rather than attacking one denomination or the other.

@Olaadegbu,

Calling Frosbel heretic as regards this topic is not necessarily right.Recall that the apostles of old and even our messiah-The Lord Jesus Christ were accused of heresy by the self-righteous groups-Sadducee and Pharisees.

The truth is always hard to accept. The truth does not have a bandwagon(rippling) effect because most humans by nature like 'crowding out' with the crowd.

I am yet to see any denomination that has the complete truth in its entirety.The onus is on us to learn from others with all humility by asking for clarifications where needed.

More so,I do not see Frosbel as the kind of 'virtual' individual who purports to know it all.More so, Frosbel is not a super-human!

We all lack understanding in one way or the other so it is for the Oyedepos, Olukoyas, Adeboyes, Oyakhilomes, Kumuyis,Okoties, Adefarasins,et al.

Despite the fact that I have reservations for most of these church leaders, I have always known that we are human in a way with imperfections.

No matter our differences in interpretations and opinions, let us learn to treat one another in love.

But, if there is anything we should be careful about, its interpreting scriptures out of context to suit our desires and man-made doctrines.

There is a high likelihood that true Christians are not part of even the present-day church movement.

Virtually all churches these days most especially in Nigeria have their own doctrinal beliefs! Sometimes, I get confused with these doctrines! To worsen matter, all we get from most of these churches is basically 'experiential' activities and not the word.

I strongly believe if these churches engage in detailed study or research on some of these doctrines that are causing confusion amongst christian brethren,it would do us all good.

As much as soul winning and miracles are good. People need the word to feed upon.Soul winning is beyond going to the pulpit to accept Christ. Without the word,soul winning is just fashion ala mode as it is today.Exactly the way miracles have become alacarte(miracles are being dished out depending on currency denomination).What a wicked world we live!

Please kindly permit me from deviating once again from this crucial topic.

God bless!

@ All,

If we pray against our 'supposedly' enemies to die. What then is the difference between a Christian and an occult?

More so, if we pray for demons or spirit beings to die, do they actually die in the true sense?

My take on this remains that if we live and think right as much as we could coupled with the grace of God,no demon or 'supposedly' human enemy can overcome us in anyway. The key to overcoming evil is righteousness.

That your pastor says you should pray against your enemies,does not make your pastor right.

When I look back on how I have acted foolishly, I can never stop laughing at myself all in the name of warfare prayers.

Come to think of it, is poverty a spirit or a socio-economic malady? We do not need to bind or destroy poverty all in the name of breaking out of poverty. What a Christian needs is to pray to God for wisdom to unlock opportunities as well as favour.

More so, we all need to overcome this habit of frivolities(time frittered away on inconsequential activities),indolence(laziness),trading blames on others(buck-passing of responsibilities)and this corrupt attitude of get-rich-quick syndrome. Permit me if I have digressed a bit from the topic!

Above all, let us learn to harmonize scriptures and not quote scriptures out of context to suit our own desires and longings. This indeed is manipulative!

If the Lord Jesus Christ gave us an example of the kind of prayer(Our Lord's Prayer), we should pray. Then let us stick to it if we are His followers.

Even our Lord Jesus Christ told us that in this world there would be tribulations and persecutions for children of God but we should always have the confidence that we are overcomers.

On a lighter note, so if most of us were to be Stephen in the bible, we would have rained 'unquenchable' Holy Ghost fire on those who stoned him to death!On the contrary, brother Stephen prayed for God's mercy on them!

Methinks, its better we love our 'supposedly' human enemies and apply wisdom when dealing with them. As regards, the spiritual forces-the real enemies, we should key to righteousness most while praying for their activities to paralyse over our lives and others.

Let us endeavour to purge our minds as well from profane thoughts. There is no doubt that the human mind is in constant battle between good and evil.I have no doubt that the human mind is the most difficult enemy to deal with.
The devil(s) cannot come to a (wo)man physically,the only viable medium for the devil(s)is the human mind.No wonder the bible says that we should guard it religiously,jealously and diligently.The emphasis is mine!

No one can claim to know it all,but its always good to separate truth from 'supposedly' man-made doctrine!

May God bless us all!It pays to overcome evil with good rather than the other way round!!Jesus Christ is Lord!!!

@Alaetha,

I hope I got your username right! Kindly pardon me if I got it wrong.Back to your question before I doze off.

The context of the usage of 'everlasting' or 'eternal' as regards hellfire has to do with an age or a period in time.

It does not necessarily connote forever or permanency or nonfading. It depends wholly on the context of usage.

In Greek,the adjectival form of everlasting is 'aionion' or 'aionios'.

The classical example of this biblical treatise can be drawn from what befell Sodom and Gomorrah.

Please if you are doubt of what I have stated,kindly do a 'google' search on everlasting or eternal in Greek.

I have got to marry my bed for now.My eyes are heavy.Thanks.Stay blessed.