mrmayor:

@Nferyn,

Wow, where have you been?

mrmayor:

Good to see you back on Nairaland. How's the family; bet your twins ( I think you have twins) must have all grown up. Best regards to your wife and children. Welcome back again

when did you become an atheist?

please share your story of how you became an
atheist ?

what prompted you to make that decision

do you come from a family of atheists - (no insults meant here)

which religion do you particular find repugnant?

which religion do you find - nearly acceptable if you
wanted to be religious -

what are you views on :

death

pre/post marital sex

stealing

lying

murder

afterlife

many views on the above subjects are influenced by religion.

without religious injunctions the actions become amoral.

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence

ono:

Hi Nferyn!
Nice to have you here. I guess you're from Belgium, rite? Thanks for the clarification. But reading between the lines of your entry, I noticed we're practically saying thesame thing.

ono:

Botton line is that until such a time that Nigeria set forth to practice true federalism, peace and unity will continue to elude us.

ono:

Now, what is the major obstacle to the practice of true federalism in Nigeria?: The presence of oil in the Niger Delta. Will the oil ever dry up in the Delta so that Nigerians can start thinking of true federalism again?: Unfortunately, research has shown that the oil will not dry up - going by the present geological processes going on in the place.

ricadelide:

@nferyn, dtw_sola, English1 et al

English1, you may want to recheck the definition of atheist. Atheists do not believe in deities of any sort. Simple as that.

I personally am a humanist agnostic, who just believes that all the major world religions are false, yet I have not completely ruled out the possibility of the existence of a god.

AND

Quite a lot of people are reluctant to categorise themselves as atheists because of the - very successful I must say - campaign by theists to define atheism as an active rejection of God, which is only one type of atheism. You can make a typology of belief systems on two axes: knowledge (of the existence of God) and belief (in the existence of God).
On the belief axis, you have:
* atheism: the lack of belief in (a) deit(y)(ies)

I observed the posts by English1 and dtw_sola deciding not to comment. Then i noticed nferyn appear with his rod of correction. However i think it would be fair if i raised some issues that naturally fall out from your statements.

Its obvious that you take issues dtw_sola because of the clause in his statement that he "has not completely ruled out the possibility of the existence of God" and thus his unwillingness to append the 'atheist' nametag to himself, thus you were quick to insinuate that it was entirely unncessary. Although you might say that your intent was to 'correct' his definition of atheism which is not really the case because your definitions are the same.

ricadelide:

And in that light, i wonder why you had to robe theists into it, considering that it is you guys who keep shifting definitions because there is no logically justifiable premise on which to maintain the 'athiest' appellation.

ricadelide:

Let me ignore the fact that i could provide a dictionary definition of atheism that is different from what you put up above however and concentrate on your definition.

ricadelide:

The problems with the alternative(s) you profer readily pop out. You say atheism is the 'lack of belief in a diety(ies)'. That's a very safe position to take.

ricadelide:

Lack of belief. Let's personalize that definition so that it doesn't just rest in the air of abstraction. The first issue that comes to my mind though is this: is that a passive lack of belief or an active one? If it is an active one (ie you believe that there is no God(s) or that God(s) do(es) not exist), how does that differ from what theists have criticized, with its inherent logical inconsistencies?

ricadelide:

Are you trying to delineate that which is believed from that which is proferred as fact?

ricadelide:

Of course its passive, you'd say. Afterall, you're trying to make a distinction from what 'true' atheism constitutes as distinguished from what christians have tried to label atheism as. So you redefine it to mean a lack of belief in God rather than an active denial of God.

ricadelide:

Then the other issue that arises is; is it a lack of belief in God or the lack of belief in[b] the existence of [/b] God? - the two are very different, and i notice that you equivocate on those definitions in your post. The latter is equivalent to a belief in the non-existence of God and is no way passive.

ricadelide:

And as per the former, first off, many creatures and even things, lack a belief in God. My laptop lacks belief in God, and i guess my cat probably did (i can't be sure; i didnt ask him). It might be wise also to note that they do lack a belief in quantum physics. What then? Can i then call my cat an atheist?

ricadelide:

Even bringing it home to Homo sapiens, are babies atheists? That is a very vague definition of atheism and is at best a retreat to agnostism.

ricadelide:

I also remember my days in the roman catholic church as a young boy, although i never did doubt the existence of God (i think i've always been a theist), yet i did not believe in God. What then would you have called me; an atheistic theist?

ricadelide:

I could make a lot of analogies from your 'definition'. It follows that if atheism is to be defined as "a lack of belief in a deity(ies)" then it is unwarranted for you to 'correct' dtw_sola when he introduces his "i've not ruled out the possibility of the existence of God" clause,

ricadelide:

because, if anything, his position is more honest (and logical) than yours. Beleiving in the non-existence of God is not the same as lacking a belief in God. Atheism is not agnosticsm, and even if/when you qualify atheism with agnosticsm, by implication (of your definitions) it is tautological.

ricadelide:

Furthermore, for all its worth, your definition can be expanded/extrapolated to "i do not believe in God(s) whether or not he/they exist(s)" So much for passivity.

ricadelide:

dtw_sola's position, although i don't agree with him, is still a more honest (and albeit logical) position. And your 'correction' is unwarranted.

ricadelide:

And i do pray he (and you notwithstanding) eventually attains the knowlege of and belief in God that I and many others have, by His grace, attained. Cheers

ono:

The Belgians sure are discussing about splitting up, because matters of governance in the country have gotten to a head. And they're genuinely discussing a way forward for governing the different ethnic groups that make up Belgium. Each ethnic group wants to protect their interests in a united or divided Belgium.

ono:

Herein lies the difference between Nigeria and Belgium. While the Belgians are doing this for the very first time, I believe, and will most likely implement the decisions of the participants of that discussion, Nigerians have held several political conferences in the past, written myriads of reports on the recommendations of participants of these conference but have never implemented any of the recommendations.

ono:

So, while Belgians are discussing a way forward for their country, and the ethnic groups making up the country are won't to progress with what they have, here in Nigeria as soon as the matter of oil comes up at any conference, Jihadists and pretenders rally round their people to pour cold water on any recommendation. Oil is a no-go area for discussion. The Niger Delta people can rotten where ever they are. No one (Jihadists and pretenders alike) will part with that oil in that place. They must realise the full benefit of oil being located in a united Nigeria. Until then, Nigeria must remain as one.

ono:

Brings us back to David's entry. It's oil that's keeping us together.

dtw_sola:

English1, you may want to recheck the definition of atheist. Atheists do not believe in deities of any sort. Simple as that.

I personally am a humanist agnostic, who just believes that all the major world religions are false, yet I have not completely ruled out the possibility of the existence of a god.

OLAADEGBU:

Why don't you first establish that fact beyond a shadow of a doubt. You empty assertions are no replacement for evidence, my dear friend.

The building is the evidence that there was a builder, and with the same logic the fact that you as a complex human being with all your faculties and ability to think and type on the keyboard is all the evidence I need to know that there is a more intelligent creator.

OLAADEGBU:

Give me some evidence for the existence of that so-called soul, then you may have the beginning of a point.

Your spirit is the part of you that you can use to relate to God but since your spirit is dead in tresspassess and sin the communication line has been broken.

OLAADEGBU:

Your soul is the part of you that relates to this natural world and this consists of your will, emotions and personality which forms your character, your mind that you use to think(intellect).

OLAADEGBU:

An illustration is of the piano and the music (melody). The moment you play the piano you produce the music but if you take the piano apart you don't get to see the music. In other words, you cannot relate to God through an untransformed mind, your spirit has to be alive just as the telephone line has to be connected or the radio tunned to the right frequency before you can receive and transmit. The soul therefore, will take on the shape on what is active, either the spirit or the body.

OLAADEGBU:

The Chambers dictionary defines conscience as "the sense of moral correctness that governs or influences a person's actions or thoughts." Your conscience is what we call the police man of the soul or the alarm bell that makes us to stop and think of the consequences of our actions.

OLAADEGBU:

This is what the animals don't have as they can only operate on instincts, they do not stop to think about the future consequences of their actions.

OLAADEGBU:

Unless you want to prove otherwise. Every human being (Homo-Sapiens) have this conscience that God exists, it is only by our conscious efforts that we delibrately try to silence it,

OLAADEGBU:

just as we try to silence our alarm bells when we don't want to wake up from our slumber. We try to silence our consciences because we do not want to be held accountable for our shortcomings.

OLAADEGBU:

This is the reason why I asked the so called atheists to answer question six on the atheists test posted above. The same way as a thief would not want to believe that there is any policeman around the corner before he goes out on a stealing rampage because he is blinded by the thrill of the benefits of his exploits until he gets caught.

OLAADEGBU:

We have a proverb in our dialect that says "All days belong to the thief but one important day belongs to the owner". You may silence your conscience that says that the evidence of the existence of God is all around you,

OLAADEGBU:

but you can silence this voice by choosing to believe the world philosophies based on evolutionary theory which are conjectures rather than facts,they are opinions formed without proof, an opinion formed on slight or defective evidence or none at all according to the 'Chambers dictionary', and this philosophy needs more faith than to believe in the existence of God the creator.

OLAADEGBU:

And how do you know that? Because some ancient text penned by down by a bunch of semi-literate bronze age herders tells yo so?

I am surprised that you find it difficult to believe in the fact that everyone born of a woman except for two people has died or would die sooner or later in life. Death is a certainty.

OLAADEGBU:

This brings us back to the beginning, when Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This disobedience brought sin and death to all mankind.

OLAADEGBU:

Since then man has sought for knowledge that will be without God, no wonder the human philosophies such as naturalism, humanism, atheism, hedonism, agnotism, fascism, racism, nazism, socialism, communism, materialism, capitalism, feminism and all the isms have one thing in common and that is the absence of God or the denial or dismissal of any belief in the spiritual realm.

OLAADEGBU:

Almost all scientific inventions that has been made has been used to kill en-mass even though it can also be used to help humans afterwards, an example is the splitting of the atom.

OLAADEGBU:

According to the US. congress communism was responsible for over 135 million deaths.

OLAADEGBU:

The result of natural selection in the elimination and the exploitation of the 'weakest' or the 'survival of the fittest' through colonialism and racism in Africa and Asia, the Jews can tell you how the theory of nazism, racism and fascism eliminated millions of them in Germany and beyond, the millions of aborted pre-born babies and the divorce rate can testify how the fallacy of feminism has devalued the sanctity of human lives.

OLAADEGBU:

Homosexualism, adultery, euthanasia, political correctness, multiculturalism and ego-ism(E[/b]dging [b]G[/b]od [b]O[/b]ut) have all proved how they have silenced their consciences and looking for alternative means and purpose of living that will be void of God.

OLAADEGBU:

But the tree of life was meant to give us life and that life is now given to us through the last Adam Jesus Christ so as to make us Homo-Novus, a new man in Christ. [b]2Cor.5:17 So we can now access the wisdom of God which the natural man through his mind would find impossible.

OLAADEGBU:
The absolute moral commandments as seen in the 10 commandments

OLAADEGBU:

which is to remind us of what our seared consciences that has been drowned by these human philosophies and which cannot be attained to but can only be obtained by faith in the Last Adam as we receive the free gift of eternal life, the Power and wisdom of God will be revealed in our lives. So what Adam lost in the garden of Eden through disobedience has been restored by the obedience of the Last Adam, so we can now receive this free gift of eternal life, the mind of Christ and the Power of God.

OLAADEGBU:

The above scriptures proves

OLAADEGBU:

that it is difficult and impossible for the natural, non-spiritual man who was born Homo-Sapien, and has inherited the original sin from Adam through his unregenerated mind that is dependent on the knowledge of good and evil, to understand, comprehend and correctly recognise the wisdom of God that is far superior to the human philosophies. It is only those who have now become Homo-Novus that is, a new man by faith in the Last Adam2Cor.5:17, who is heavenly and spiritual, who is the[b] Logos[/b] of the whole universe, that is , the reason why we live, move and have our being.

OLAADEGBU:

@nferyn,

I will like you to complete the following atheist (1-5) and moral (6) test for me to determine whether you are truly an atheist or an agnostic and to know how sincere you really are before I can answer your questions.

OLAADEGBU:

I hope this is written in Ingrish

OLAADEGBU:

There are some facts of life that I want the so called atheists and agnostics to ponder on.

1. That God created you and gave you the breath of life. Whether you believe He exists or not there is nothing you can do to change that fact

OLAADEGBU:

2. That you are a spirit being, you have a soul and you live in a body. You cannot deny the fact that you have a body which is just a shell, that enables you to use your five senses. Your soul comprises of your freewill, personality, mind and conscience.

OLAADEGBU:

The fact that everybody has a conscience which God has programmed in us to be able to discern good and evil cannot be denied.

OLAADEGBU:
Your spirit which is the only part of us that can communicate with God and to worship Him is dead because of sin in our lives including unbelief.

OLAADEGBU:

3. That everybody dies. This is not depended upon whether you believe it or not, the fact is that at one point in time we all physically die, that is when the spirit and soul are separated from the body.

OLAADEGBU:
One may not believe in the law of gravity but the moment you test it by jumping from a 20 storey building it will be too late to tell the story.

OLAADEGBU:

The law of sin and death once tested and you die it will be too late to tell the story that there is life after death.

OLAADEGBU:

4. That God is going to judge you after death based on what you have done with your conscience or what decision you made with the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for you. It is either you have allowed the jugdment mete on Jesus to be on your behalf or that you will face God to defend your actions by yourself and be judged.

OLAADEGBU:

5. That the decision you make here on earth before you die will determine where you will spend your eternity, heaven the dwelling place of God or to be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels.

OLAADEGBU:

God has chosen life for you in Jesus Christ, my advise to you will be to choose life over death. There is the law of sin and death that we have all inherited from the first man, Adam. Since Adam sinned sin and death passed to all men, but thank God for the last Adam, Jesus Christ who is heavenly and holy and that by believing in Him you will have eternal life with God and begin to enjoy the righteousness of God, the peace of God that passess all understanding and the joy of God in your heart that flows like a river. Then you will be able to apply the Spirit of the law of Christ in your life.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

Romans 8:2

siege:

nferyn where d hell did u burst out from because someone's gotta hold u down

ricadelide:

Now this issue interests me because just last week I was asking myself this question:
"If the devil cracks a joke, would i laugh?"

I know you guys (Seun & nferyn) don't believe in a devil concept but allow it for the sake of thought.
Obviously the devil's jokes would be very crude, but then they'd still be jokes. I doubt if I, who will ordinarily not want to indulge in any form of 'crudeness', would find his jokes funny. Just my thought.

ricadelide:

Now you should take it easy,

Seun:

Nope. And that's my second point. So you need to make Mary's action not result in a death!

ricadelide:

of course that's not mentioning the fact that some 'inside' jokes tend not to provoke a laugh if the hearer does not understand the context of the joke itself.

ricadelide:

I remember when i was younger and read Reader's Digest, because i wasn't an american i found it hard to understand the jokes, let alone laugh. As i grew to have a broader context, the jokes became much more meaningful and provoked much more laughter.

ricadelide:

I doubt if the objection to laughter (at least in this case) stems so much from the 'funniness' of the joke itself, rather than the status of the hearers. A joke that is not done at the expense of the hearer is always (or usually) funny, whilst if its done at the expense of what the hearer holds dear, it might lose its ability to provoke a laugh.

ricadelide:

We are all sensitive beings you know - especially the few that happen to hold some things dear.

ricadelide:

Depending on the content (and perhaps context), i may or may not laugh at a joke done at the expense of my mum. However, that does not mean we don't tease her though.

ricadelide:

I think its really a tough call.

Seun:

I just feel Catholics won't be willing to accept the idea of Mary being a murderer.

Seun:

Perhaps it would be a better joke if the woman collapsed but didn't actually die?

mopegirl:

i will still be waiting for your explanation

jerrymania:

Now to all atheist. all i ever want to know is if you guys believe in miracles.

jerrymania:

do you also deny the existence of miracles? or supernatural occurences?

jerrymania:


Lets start from there!

Jen33:

Not you again!

Jen33:

We debated this topic at length a while back and you were soundly defeated.

Jen33:

Your chemical reaction theory does not negate the spiritual experience felt by the consciousness.

Jen33:

The experience may manifest physically as a chemical reaction,

Jen33:

but since consciousness is not physical matter,

Jen33:

the manifestation of the death experience on a non-physical level is totally different.

Jen33:

All in all, a dying brain reaction can simply not account for the huge catalogue of experiences and visions reported by NDErs.

Jen33:

Do you realise that a number of NDEers have returned from the dead with special abilities, knowledge, and insights which have been confirmed as authentic and hitherto beyond the abilities/purview of the experiencer(s)?

Jen33:

At least one I know returned with scientific knowledge for which he has gotten patents.

Jen33:

How does your 'dying brain chemical reaction' theory explain THAT?

Seun:

Our God-given free will leads us to sin, which makes God angry,
which leads to natural disasters, which is all our fault, of course.

Migines:

@mopegirl.
I'll help u.
Bcus it waz posted in d jokes section, u xpectd it to be 4ny, but bcus its not, u're confused(u don't _stand).

badgood:

Mellow!! If u had laughed over this then don't dare taking holy communion on sunday . I am ashamed of you as a catholic.

badgood:

As per the anti christ that posted this joke---this site is not a porn site of a place where u just come and show everybody the level of your atheism.

badgood:

I am a catholic and I take an exception to this joke that puts my faith in question.

rof-lmao:

And God "responds"!

Not so, says "God." His response argues that the defendant is immune from some earthly laws and the court lacks jurisdiction.

It adds that blaming God for human oppression and suffering misses an important point.

"I created man and woman with free will and next to the promise of immortal life, free will is my greatest gift to you," according to the response, as read by Friend.

$$Rhino:

The bible said at the end of the time, there would be many theries and may that would even say they are christ, be careful so that you wont be taken in by their blvs and theory, check the word, the bible and you shall know the truth.