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nferyn (m)
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em, nferyn, many of us here don't know the meaning of 'ad hominem'.
even if you said 'Against the man fallacy' it would still go over all our heads!!!
oh, me so stupid, me velly velly stupid,
 If sirwebs can use these eloquent challenges against evolution, he surely would understand what I'm saying  On another note, sirwebs, if you want to understand how evolution comes about producing specialised oragns I'd recommend these books:
The selfish gene
and
The blind watchmaker
by Robert Dawkins.
It's actually Richard Dawkins Anyway, The Blind Watchmaker is available as a PDF for free on this locationThe topic is beyond the scope of this forum, but please understand that the process of evolution is by no means random and haphazard- it is self-ordering in an *emergent* way. I'm sorry I had to use that word, but its the only way I can stuff such a topic into such a small place.
 In any case, I think it shouldnt be hard to accept that the spirit is created by God and the fleshy body is akin to that of an ape. Personally I think that it is even more insulting to religious sensibilities to claim that the body is in the image of God. It is the SPIRIT and not this smelly, sinful, blood-and-sweat-suppurating meat sack that is in the image of God.
It would be vanity of the greatest kind on man's behalf to even think such a thing |
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dakmanzero (m)
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robert, richard, u know I keep making that mistake?
I actually put an order out at a bookstore for the blind watchmaker by ROBERT dawkins, and sat there waiting for ages, wondering why it never came! doh.
Thanks for setting me straight, again,
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nferyn (m)
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robert, richard, u know I keep making that mistake?
I actually put an order out at a bookstore for the blind watchmaker by ROBERT dawkins, and sat there waiting for ages, wondering why it never came! doh.
Thanks for setting me straight, again,
Just download the pdf, you won't need to order anything anymore |
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Eddy Tells (m)
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Slience is the best answer to a fool.  Ah, the famous Eddy Tells has entered the arena. Care to contribute anything of substance, sir?
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lioness (f)
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Nferyn, why are you always picking on Eddy Tells.
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nferyn (m)
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Nferyn, why are you always picking on Eddy Tells.
You seriously don't know? He's been insulting me amost for as long as I've been on this board. On top of that his contributions to the threads we are both on are void of substance. Word isn't directly a meaningful contribution. |
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kimba (m)
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@all I'm awaiting the response of Jagunlabi and Reverend on these salient issues. @ those of you who believe you are Apes, I'm really happy for your admissions, let your Ape god grant you all blessings you desire. I wasnt expecting any response better from you guys than your re-affirmations that you are indeed Apes. It now makes things clearer on this forum, because you know, by the time we see replies flying in from right and left, we'll begin to view and analyze your responses from the fact that maybe its a human being talking or an Ape talking. Since some Apes have admitted to their status on this forum, we can segregate the human beings to a more intelligent area, and have human discussions. Please, i would really like everyone to reply to this thread, did you evolutionize from an Ape, or were you created by God. Where do you stand? I can put 2 and 2 together. Yes, all of us were created by God, God created Animals, God created Man in His Image. Now, we have a lot of Animals mixed with Humans, all of them on Nairaland. Hope its only Apes, and maybe a lot of Chimps in here, no dogs, no cats, i mean, is there any Baboon in the House , You better own up real quick before you are discovered. It doesnt matter, you might be an African, European, American or Asian, but a Baboon is always a Baboon. An Ape is always an Ape. This is only for the Human Beings:And for those of us created by God, may our God Almighty creator of Heaven and Earth keep our souls, our spirit and our bodies in perfect peace. |
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dakmanzero (m)
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@nferyn,
Nah, I corrected myself already and gopt the paper copy. Yet to read it cover to cover tho. Pdf will help lots, thanks!
@Eddy tells,
Calling people fools and then proceeding to claim 'silence is the best answer' is just another way of saying you intend to sabotage a discussion. Normally I would have defended you, because there is nothing wrong with simply indicating that you agree with another poster (this was what nferyn picked on you for, I remember) but saying 'silence is the best answer to a fool' just reminds me of many secondary-school arguments that ended up in fist-fights.
@Lioness
I think nferyn was wrong to have picked on Eddy but his response was rather shocking. Somehow I don't feel right defending that kind of talk,
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Eddy Tells (m)
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Well, i think WORD has been used several times and Eddy didnt refer it to you. If eDDY'S contribution had no substance to you, am sure it did to others.  The fact that you don't believe in God doesnt mean i must do like wise. If your theory was alittle convincing, perhaps i would nt. But you havent come up with any sensible theory yet, rather you keep attacking other's post. Bring your own theory. ** eDDY DOESNT WANT NO TROUBLE PLSSSS** You seriously don't know? He's been insulting me amost for as long as I've been on this board. On top of that his contributions to the threads we are both on are void of substance.
Word isn't directly a meaningful contribution.
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jagunlabi (m)
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I think what a lot of the folks here have not yet realised,is that there is already in place,a quiet agreement between science and religion to split realms of specialty.Science will take care of explaining the physical realm,while religion will deal with the spiritual realm.
This particular theme falls a bit into both realms,but more in the physical than the spiritual.What this means is that science is better equipped to answer the questions of how we came to be,than religion does.Science is more of an authority in this field than religion will ever be.Atleast the church of Rome(Roman catholic) have realised that and already came to terms with it.That is why there are many scientists working for the Vatican as we speak.
BTW, while the evolution theory is yet to prove that God does not exist,creationism(biblical and other world creationist myths) itself have not really much in it's armoury to convince of God's existence,as well.
I think religions should just leave this question of how we came to be in the hands of science and concentrate with the more spiritual job of saving souls for God,and where we will end up when we are dead.IMO
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lioness (f)
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whatever, lets just do this in peace
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nferyn (m)
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I think what a lot of the folks here have not yet realised,is that there is already in place,a quiet agreement between science and religion to split realms of specialty.Science will take care of explaining the physical realm,while religion will deal with the spiritual realm.
This particular theme falls a bit into both realms,but more in the physical than the spiritual.What this means is that science is better equipped to answer the questions of how we came to be,than religion does.Science is more of an authority in this field than religion will ever be.Atleast the church of Rome(Roman catholic) have realised that and already came to terms with it.That is why there are many scientists working for the Vatican as we speak.
BTW, while the evolution theory is yet to prove that God does not exist,creationism(biblical and other world creationist myths) itself have not really much in it's armoury to convince of God's existence,as well.
I think religions should just leave this question of how we came to be in the hands of science and concentrate with the more spiritual job of saving souls for God,and where we will end up when we are dead.IMO
You have spoken wisely. |
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dakmanzero (m)
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Abeg people lets close this topic. Moderator, where are u,
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Eddy Tells (m)
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whatta meaningful contribution,,,,,,,, Bla You have spoken wisely.
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sirwebs (m)
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"DNA doesn't design cells. What exactly do you want to know?
Evolution began from the simple organic replicators. The information was contained within itself."(nferyn)
My question dear friend is, Where did the information come from? I'm not buying the crap about being contained within itself. Sounds elementary.
My answer. an intelligent designer-God
-sirwebs
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nferyn (m)
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Well, i think WORD has been used several times and Eddy didnt refer it to you. If eDDY'S contribution had no substance to you, am sure it did to others. I've acted emotionally nd so have you, but we do have a history together The fact that you don't believe in God doesnt mean i must do like wise.
If your theory was alittle convincing, perhaps i would nt. But you havent come up with any sensible theory yet, rather you keep attacking other's post. Bring your own theory.
I wouldn't want to imply such a thing. You do whatever you feel is best for you. The Theory of Evolution is as convincing as any scientific theory, it is actually one of the theories that is best supported by the evidence. I wouldn't dream of myself coming up with such a grand intellectual accomplishment. I am of too limited an intellect to even dream of coming up with something as brilliant as the Theory of Evolution. It is the grand unifying theory of all biological sciences. As theologian and biologist Theodosius Dobzhansky said, Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution** eDDY DOESNT WANT NO TROUBLE PLSSSS**
I will second that and refrain from any further diversions, after all I'm the one to blame for poking up the fire again. |
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Eddy Tells (m)
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was it the same organic replicator that made both fishe, goat, namah and humans?  That must have been some strong replicator to be able to design every creature or animal distinctly. Our skin colours, hair etc and intelligence. I know someone who must have gotten the larger part of the organic thing because he seems to know it all. |
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nferyn (m)
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My question dear friend is, Where did the information come from? I'm not buying the crap about being contained within itself. Sounds elementary.
My answer. an intelligent designer-God
-sirwebs
It's not because you don't (want to) understand it that it isn't true. DNA is just some amino acids chained together. The information lies contained within itself. By saying God, you have not answered any question. You have just pushed it back to the existence of God. Where does God come from? |
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nferyn (m)
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was it the same organic replicator that made both fishe, goat, namah and humans? That must have been some strong replicator to be able to design every creature or animal distinctly. Our skin colours, hair etc and intelligence. I know someone who must have gotten the larger part of the organic thing because he seems to know it all. Thank you for entering the debate and asking good questions. I will take my time to provide you with a proper reply. I hope we can continue our online encounters on a new tune. |
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dakmanzero (m)
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for God's sake @nferyn, you can't compress centuries' worth of Biological and biochemical information into a single forum post. Your quest is doomed to fail.
@sirwebs, @Eddy Tells, it is obvious that nferyn is convinced God does not exist! You can NOT convince him otherwise!
lets just end it here!
pesonally what I'd say is this: I have read all the scientific/evolutionary stuff, and my belief in GOD has not been shaken! Yes, that's right, I believe in GOD and I also believe in EVOLUTION!
unfortunately if you want to find out how this is possible I AM NOT GOING TO WASTE TIME ARGUING. I can only point you in the directions I had gone, and hope you try to follow them with an open mind. There are basic concepts that are COMPULSORY to grasp before you can understand biological theories like evolution!
Trying to teach people advanced biology without educating them on basic concepts is what leads to people talking rubbish about 'where are the apes? i didnt come from apes o! all people who are apes should go to their ape-god' and other unintellectual nonsense.
My advice: Go read your biology. Read Richard Dawkins. Read the Bible. The Quran. Learn the traditions of your religion- listen to theological discourse instead of just swallowing what pastor XXXXXX shovels down your throat as Gospel Truth.
Look for Knowledge! It's out there!
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skyjuice
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To all the Creationist out there, do u guys believe in the yoruba version of creationism as well or any other version of creationism out there? just a question
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nferyn (m)
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for God's sake @nferyn, you can't compress centuries' worth of Biological and biochemical information into a single forum post. Your quest is doomed to fail.
If you're thinking about the basic concepts of evolution, everything is available online. It just takes some effort to go through it. Even if I can only convince one person to go and look for that information and read it with an open mind, I think it's worth the effort. The Theory of Evolution is excellent in that regard, as it can explain very well how science works without having the need for an extensive background in science to start with. the basic concepts can easily be understood by lay people. The link I provided before does contain a lot of references to that type of material. @sirwebs, @Eddy Tells, it is obvious that nferyn is convinced God does not exist! You can NOT convince him otherwise!
lets just end it here!
They might, but not on te terms they usually propose. If there's convincing, irrefutale evidence of God's existence, I would certainly not look the other way. pesonally what I'd say is this: I have read all the scientific/evolutionary stuff, and my belief in GOD has not been shaken! Yes, that's right, I believe in GOD and I also believe in EVOLUTION!
That's the spirit. You don't need to abandon your belief to accept the knowledge we gained through science. It just takes another approach to your religion. The Bible is neither a History handbook , nor a Science handbook. unfortunately if you want to find out how this is possible I AM NOT GOING TO WASTE TIME ARGUING. I can only point you in the directions I had gone, and hope you try to follow them with an open mind. There are basic concepts that are COMPULSORY to grasp before you can understand biological theories like evolution!
Correct, but they're not that hard to grasp. Anyone moderately intelligent can understand the basic concepts of evolutionary biology. Trying to teach people advanced biology without educating them on basic concepts is what leads to people talking rubbish about 'where are the apes? i didnt come from apes o! all people who are apes should go to their ape-god' and other unintellectual nonsense.
You're probably right, but I'm not going to repeat the that extensively over here. For all of those interested in what Evolutionary theory really is, go to the Berkely site on evolution. that's an excellent introduction in the subject. My advice: Go read your biology. Read Richard Dawkins. Read the Bible. The Quran. Learn the traditions of your religion- listen to theological discourse instead of just swallowing what pastor XXXXXX shovels down your throat as Gospel Truth.
Look for Knowledge! It's out there!
And easy to find for the curious ones among us. |
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clemsonfan (m)
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I Believe in creation, not just BECAUSE I am a christian, but through the many facts that contradict the "Evolution Theory", For example: In the evolution theory it states that once the "BIG BANG" occurred, all of the dust particles and fragments started a circular spin to the right, well then Saturn has 7 rings that orbit around it, Right? Well then all but 1 of those rings orbit in the same direction which is to the right, then why does the other ring orbit to the LEFT?! whats more the evolution theory states that we came from MONKEYS!!! I DID NOT EVOLVE FROM A MONKEY!! If we REALLY DID evolve from apes, tell me then HOW did our anatomy change in such a dramatic fashion, their are extremely large Generation gaps in that time period between evolving from monkey to human. The whole Idea of "THE BIG BANG THEORY" or Evolution theory is just rediculous. I mean come on, their are no SUBSTANTIAL Evidence to prove the EVOLUTION theory, but their are also no Substaintial evidence of the Creation theory. But, as a christian if you read the Christian Bible, it will tell you how GOD created the earth, the universe and everything else. Here's what i think about the CREATION THEORY:
-It states in the bible that GOD created the earth in 6 days, How are we to know the length of time in ONE of GOD'S days. Because I am sure it is not 24 HRS, it Could be MILLIONS of years.
-It Also states in the Bible that GOD Rested on the 7th day, Maybe, just maybe, God created the universe and let it evolve for the MILLIONS OF YEARS in the length of his DAY. Then he created light, which is the SUN i'm guessing, and let IT evolve for the same number of years in the length of his DAY.
So in conclusion, I say that maybe the "EVOLUTION THEORY", in some small way, and the"CREATION THEORY" link to gether.
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lioness (f)
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How did that big bang create breath in us , oops you? What brought about the big bang?? Something must have been existing to have trigged off the big bang. WHAT WAS IT??? Was it the big bang that thought us our to mate and make children |
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KAG (f)
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[quote=kimba]
@ those of you who believe you are Apes, I'm really happy for your admissions, let your Ape god
Ape God? You are also a mammal (one can only hope), does that mean you worship a mammal God?
grant you all blessings you desire. I wasnt expecting any response better from you guys than your re-affirmations that you are indeed Apes. It now makes things clearer on this forum, because you know, by the time we see replies flying in from right and left, we'll begin to view and analyze your responses from the fact that maybe its a human being talking or an Ape talking. Grin Grin Grin Grin
Human beings are apes.
Since some Apes have admitted to their status on this forum, we can segregate the human beings to a more intelligent area, and have human discussions.
Once again, humans are apes.
Please, i would really like everyone to reply to this thread, did you evolutionize from an Ape, or were you created by God. Where do you stand?
There are many theists, many of whom are christians, who believe that (their) God used evolution to "create" them.
I can put 2 and 2 together.
Can you? Really?
Yes, all of us were created by God, God created Animals, God created Man in His Image. Now, we have a lot of Animals mixed with Humans, all of them on Nairaland.
Oh boy! Humans are animals too.
Hope its only Apes, and maybe a lot of Chimps in here, no dogs, no cats, i mean, is there any Baboon in the House Grin Grin, You better own up real quick before you are discovered. It doesnt matter, you might be an African, European, American or Asian, but a Baboon is always a Baboon. An Ape is always an Ape.
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
And there it is. It seems many are so blinkered by what has seemingly become the colloquial use of the word "ape", that they don't realise that the definition, especially in science, includes humans.
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TV01 (m)
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Hi clemsonfan, Re your quote below, does that make you a "Christian evolutionist"? Here's what i think about the CREATION THEORY:
-It states in the bible that GOD created the earth in 6 days, How are we to know the length of time in ONE of GOD'S days. Because I am sure it is not 24 HRS, it Could be MILLIONS of years.
-It Also states in the Bible that GOD Rested on the 7th day, Maybe, just maybe, God created the universe and let it evolve for the MILLIONS OF YEARS in the length of his DAY. Then he created light, which is the SUN i'm guessing, and let IT evolve for the same number of years in the length of his DAY.
So in conclusion, I say that maybe the "EVOLUTION THEORY", in some small way, and the"CREATION THEORY" link to gether.
I've heard that some "Christians", attempt to reconcile or are comfortable with both premises. I've also heard the "day as an age" theory. True the Bible does not say "24 hour" day, but if you translate day as an age, pray tell how do you translate the words "Day", "Night" "evening" and "morning" (say as found in Genesis 1:5)? Genesis 1:5 - God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day. God bless |
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TV01 (m)
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Hi KAG, I take it from your posts that you are not a Christian. However, I must say you need the patience of a saint to engage Bro' Kimba  . There are many theists, many of whom are Christians, who believe that (their) God used evolution to "create" them.
I can't speak for all "theists", but a Christian who believes that God created man (1) in His image (2) from the dust of the ground (3) and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils & (4) on a different day to other creatures, cannot believe in evolution, or that their God "used evolution to create them". That would entail disregarding the Bible from it's opening pages. Suffice to say, the only word I can think of, off the top of my head to qualify "Christianity" is "Biblical". The "Christian God" is the God of the Bible. God bless. |
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KAG (f)
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I Believe in creation, not just BECAUSE I am a christian, but through the many facts that contradict the "Evolution Theory", For example: In the evolution theory it states that once the "BIG BANG" occurred, all of the dust particles and fragments started a circular spin to the right, well then Saturn has 7 rings that orbit around it, Right? Well then all but 1 of those rings orbit in the same direction which is to the right, then why does the other ring orbit to the LEFT?! No. First, the theory of evolution has nothing to do with the either the Big bang, or the orbit of moons and planets. Secondly, I suspect you believe creation(ism) because you are a christian; and finally, to answer your question, ever heard of what happens when two bodies collide? whats more the evolution theory states that we came from MONKEYS!!! I DID NOT EVOLVE FROM A MONKEY!! We share a common ancestor with mokeys If we REALLY DID evolve from apes, tell me then HOW did our anatomy change in such a dramatic fashion, their are extremely large Generation gaps in that time period between evolving from monkey to human. Monkeys (as in modern monkeys) are as evolved as humans by the way, but to answer your question, mutations and natural selection. The whole Idea of "THE BIG BANG THEORY" or Evolution theory is just rediculous. No they aren't. I mean come on, their are no SUBSTANTIAL Evidence to prove the EVOLUTION theory, Proof is for math and alcohol, but there are many evidences for the ToE. but their are also no Substaintial evidence of the Creation theory. But, as a christian if you read the Christian Bible, it will tell you how GOD created the earth, the universe and everything else. THE BIBLE IS NOT A SCIENCE BOOK Here's what i think about the CREATION THEORY:
-It states in the bible that GOD created the earth in 6 days, How are we to know the length of time in ONE of GOD'S days. Because I am sure it is not 24 HRS, it Could be MILLIONS of years.
-It Also states in the Bible that GOD Rested on the 7th day, Maybe, just maybe, God created the universe and let it evolve for the MILLIONS OF YEARS in the length of his DAY. Then he created light, which is the SUN i'm guessing, and let IT evolve for the same number of years in the length of his DAY.
So in conclusion, I say that maybe the "EVOLUTION THEORY", in some small way, and the"CREATION THEORY" link to gether.
What's the creation theory again? |
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KAG (f)
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Hi KAG, I take it from your posts that you are not a Christian. However, I must say you need the patience of a saint to engage Bro' Kimba . No, I'm not a christian, thanks for the heads up though. I can't speak for all "theists", but a Christian who believes that God created man
(1) in His image
(2) from the dust of the ground
(3) and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils &
(4) on a different day to other creatures,
cannot believe in evolution, or that their God "used evolution to create them". That would entail disregarding the Bible from it's opening pages. Suffice to say, the only word I can think of, off the top of my head to qualify "Christianity" is "Biblical". The "Christian God" is the God of the Bible.
God bless.
I doubt that. Some of the christians who accept evolution believe that their interpretaion of the Genesis account actually shows that YHVH used evolution, the big bang, etc to create everything, some believe that the Genesis account is allegorical/mythical, some believe it was wrongly translated, and I'm sure there are many other christian evolutionists school of thought. However, what is clear is that the vast majority of christians accept the occurence of evolution, and probably most christians believe that although God used evolution to create humans it doesn't contradict their understag of Genesis. |
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kimba (m)
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@KAG [quote=kimba]
@ those of you who believe you are Apes, I'm really happy for your admissions, let your Ape god
Ape God? You are also a mammal (one can only hope), does that mean you worship a mammal God?
If only you knew how to read very well, you would have noted i used "god" instead of "God". FYI: those of you who believe you are Apes, I'm really happy for your admissions, let your Ape god
I worship a Living God. He sent us His only Son, Jesus. 1) Since you are not a Christian, you wont understand. sorry, 2) It becomes worse, that since you say you evolved from Apes, i mean you still can't understand. im really sorry. 
on a more serious note: methinks, it should be the Apes that should be craving to be Humans, and not viceversa. Do you thinks Apes and their likes gather together in their forests, discussing a topic like this, don't you think they should be getting angry that they did not evolve completely(if to be a man is the definition of completeness).
Its sometimes funny how people will just want to drag themselves on the floor.
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