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tpaine
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Capital punishment - state sanctioned killing of criminals, is still widely practiced in many countries across the global. Of the major Western liberal democracies, the USA is the only country that routinely execute some criminal for capital crimes. In fact, not all states in the American Union today sanction the death penalty, many having suspended and abrogated the law on capital punishment. The irony is that many of the countries that routinely execute criminals have a very high religiosity index; countries like Nigeria, USA, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan etc. Of the non-Abrahamic religious countries China is the one with the most (if not the highest) capital punishment per year. Nearly all the secular liberal democracies of Western Europe have abolished the capital punishment or have a statute which has fallen in disuse. At an anecdoctal level, I find nearly all my acquintances of religious leanings are in favour of the capital punishment. On the other hand, secular humanist are largely in opposition to this vile practice. How can it be that the religious are overwhelmingly in favour of this practice given their claimed avowance for the sanctity of human life? Do the respective religious text offer a view on this practice? Referenceshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_nationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishmenthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States===================================================================================================== Some of my other threads The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006Danger! Religion May Damage Your Intelligence And Your Mind If Not Your Wealthhttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115458.0.htmlWhat Are Jesus's Core Moral Teachings And Which Are Unique To Himhttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118622.0.htmlWith God On Our Side: God-inspired Violence - The Christianshttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118563.0.htmlCapital Punishment, Religiousity And Secularism http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118613.0.htmlDon't Know Much About Evolution?: Watch Dr Kenneth Miller Make It Simplehttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-116650.0.html The Theory Of Evolution Refuted? The No-witness Argumenthttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118701.0.htmlCan One Embrace Evolution And Maintain Christian (or Other Religious) Belief http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-118684.0.htmlWhich Ten Commandments? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115811.0.html#msg1998588 Jesus's Doctrine Of Passive Non-resistance To Evil http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115745.0.htmlDoes Anyone Not Know What The Permian–triassic Extinction Event Is ?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115553.0.html What Are Spiritual Truths? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115666.0.html#msg1996318Road To Damascus Incident: Paul's Account http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115689.0.html#msg1996608Noah, Kangaroos, Sloth, Polar Bear And Panda In A Wooden Boat http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115589.0.html#msg1994984 Resurrection Accounts In The Gospel: Reconciliation Wantedhttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115582.0.htmlDoes Jesus Know What Causes Sin? Thank Goodness He Doesn't.http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115292.0.htmlThe Dreadful Plight Of Apostasy In The Biblehttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115114.0.htmlIs The European Union Prophesied In The Bible? Is It The Anti-christ?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115053.0.htmlJesus And The Old Lawshttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115190.0.htmlWhat Can Be Said To Be Definitely Known About Jesus?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114935.0.html Origin Of Christianity And Diabolical Mimicry In Anticipationhttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113860.0.html Hell Past, Hell Present; Which Do You Prefer?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113947.0.html#msg1971669The Sexual Act And Christian Teachinghttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114332.0.htmlScientific Rationalism, Reason And Faith: Which Produces Systematic Knowledge?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114253.0.html On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus, Part 2: http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html On The Historical Reliability Of The Bible http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114215.0.html When And From Where Did Jesus Ascend Into Heaven http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113519.0.html http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-114023.0.html#msg1972418 When Was Jesus Born?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113449.0.html On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus 13012dg http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113342.0.html#msg1963529 Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence. http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589 God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitlerhttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html Faith-healer And Evangelist, Maurice Cerullo, Investigated http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113871.0.html What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Commahttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266 On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2 http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.htmlHow Is Salvation Achieved? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.htmlOnly For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Storieshttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibleshttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311When Was Jesus Crucified?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353Faith-healers And Tele-evangelistshttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528Where Did Sin Originate?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291For The Non-beleivers Only, 1http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631Has Atheism Got Principle? Nohttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriagehttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principleshttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268Great Books About Non-belief http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg194111quc02137Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992 What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God? http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099What lasting Benefits Did Jesus Bring Into The World?http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115382.0.html#msg1992157The Catholic Doctrine, Original Sin And Evolutionhttp://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-115525.0.html#msg1994039Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975Genesis Vs Genetics http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655 Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.htmlJesus Genealogy http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160==================================================================================================== |
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imhotep
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Of the secular countries China is the one with the most (if not the highest) capital punishment per year.
Second question -> How is it that China, a secular country that believes in the use of reason alone (much like therationa and tpaine) has the HIGHEST rate of capital punishment worldwide??? |
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tpaine
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Second question -> How is it that China, a secular country that believes in the use of reason alone (much like therationa and tpaine) has the HIGHEST rate of capital punishment worldwide???
I was re-reading my post and looking for a better word to describe China, but in the end settled for non-Abrahamic. China is a largely "religious" country in the same sense as USA is. They do not have a state sanctioned religion but the people are overwhelming Buddhist. To say the China employs reason is to misuse the word reason. |
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imhotep
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I was re-reading my post and looking for a better word to describe China, but in the end settled for non-Abrahamic. China is a largely "religious" country in the same sense as USA is. They do not have a state sanctioned religion but the people are overwhelming Buddhist.
To say the China employs reason is to misuse the word reason.
@tpaine China is an atheistic, communist state. Are you aware the tax evasion is punished with the death penalty in China??? So much for the use of reason!!  |
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tpaine
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@tpaine China is an atheistic, communist state. Are you aware the tax evasion is punished with the death penalty in China??? So much for the use of reason!! Why do we have the dead penalty in "Christian" countries like the USA? Have they not got respect for human life? Very few countries in the world have constitions directly based on their "religious philosophy". USA is largely populated by christians but is not a Christian polity. However, you can argue that Saudi is an Islamic polity. In many other countries, the dividing lines are blurred (Venezuela, philipines etc). China has a populated of about 14% atheist but a state government that is non-religious. In other words, they do not based their beliefs on the classical theistic dogmas. But that does not mean that the have GOOD PHILOSOPHIES. They are totalitarian dogmas, which are not too dissimilar from religious dogma. Can you show be a country that has championed the philosophies of Thomas Paine, David Hume, Spinoza, Epicurus, Epictetus, Voltaire, Diderot, as political philosophies, then I will show you an atheist state. Basically, the fact that one does not believe in god(s) not does mean thatone has got good philosophies. I really hope you get this point. |
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imhotep
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China has a populated of about 14% atheist but a state government that is non-religious. In other words, they do not based their beliefs on the classical theistic dogmas. But that does not mean that the have GOOD PHILOSOPHIES. They are totalitarian dogmas, which are not too dissimilar from religious dogma.
@tpaine If they are so reasonable (and have excluded blind religion from the running of the Chinese state), why is tax evasion a capital offence? |
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tpaine
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@tpaine
If they are so reasonable (and have excluded blind religion from the running of the Chinese state), why is tax evasion a capital offence?
You just don't get it, do you. Did I say they were " reasonable"? The crime for which the capital punishment is applied is not the issue here. The issue is the principle of have capital punishment. Are you suggesting that tax evasion is less of a crime than other crimes? Think about it. Tax evasion leads to less government money which leads to less investment in hospitals which leads to more privation and death in the long run. This is not an argument for the death penalty, but is an argument for deciding how to link punishment to crimes. What do Christians think about the capital punishment? Don't railroad the issues, as is your wont. |
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4 Play (m)
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China has a populated of about 14% atheist but a state government that is non-religious. In other words, they do not based their beliefs on the classical theistic dogmas. But that does not mean that the have GOOD PHILOSOPHIES. They are totalitarian dogmas, which are not too dissimilar from religious dogma.
Can you show be a country that has championed the philosophies of Thomas Paine, David Hume, Spinoza, Epicurus, Epictetus, Voltaire, Diderot, as political philosophies, then I will show you an atheist state.
Basically, the fact that one does not believe in god(s) not does mean thatone has got good philosophies. I really hope you get this point.
Atheists and this familiar goobledegook.Anytime the atrocities of China or the Soviet Union is pointed out,they start to repeat the same canard about these atheist regimes being actually believe it or not-essentially religious! Here you have people who don't believe in any deity or supernatural existence,who reject theism,being described in a way that seeks to deny the undeniable-that they are atheists.As they say,success has many parents,failure is an orphan. The reasoning is often based on the suggestion that these atheist states are not really atheist because they haven't lived up to certain principles.One can use this same warped logic that atheists deploy to claim that there has never been a "Christian nation" because no nation has throughout history ever fully lived up to Christian principles |
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tpaine
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Atheists and this familiar goobledegook.Anytime the atrocities of China or the Soviet Union is pointed out,they start to repeat the same canard about these atheist regimes being actually believe it or not-essentially religious!
Here you have people who don't believe in any deity or supernatural existence,who reject theism,being described in a way that seeks to deny the undeniable-that they are atheists.As they say,success has many parents,failure is an orphan.
The reasoning is often based on the suggestion that these atheist states are not really atheist because they haven't lived up to certain principles.One can use this same warped logic that atheists deploy to claim that there has never been a "Christian nation" because no nation has throughout history ever fully lived up to Christian principles
I agree with you on one point. That you could argue that there has never been a "Christian Nations", and you could be right. But there is a vast difference between Christianity and atheism. Christainity not only makes claims about the existence of a diety it also makes moral claims, amongst others. Atheism makes only one claim - about the non-existence of deities. It makes no claims about metaphysics, morality, etc, etc. Thus it is possible to be atheistic and be a bad individual (eg Stalin) and be good individual (Andrew carnegie, Thomas Paine etc). What does Jesus say in the bible? Let us examine the moral teachings and see whether Christian are living by these standard; Turn the other check and not resist evil
I have not come to make peace
Leave you family to follow me
Do not make plans for the morrow
Hell
No condemnation of slavery
Love you neighbourThese are Christ's moral teachings. Which of the above do christians follow or reject? |
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4 Play (m)
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Atheism makes only one claim - about the non-existence of deities. It makes no claims about metaphysics, morality, etc, etc. Thus it is possible to be atheistic and be a bad individual (eg Stalin) and be good individual (Andrew carnegie, Thomas Paine etc). At least,this puts to rest the canard about atheist states that don't " champion the philosophies of Thomas Paine, David Hume, Spinoza, Epicurus, Epictetus, Voltaire, Diderot, as political philosophies", not really being atheists.The key thing is that those states assert the non-existence of deities. These are Christ's moral teachings. Which of the above do christians follow or reject?
This version of "Christ's moral teachings" is a figment of your imagination.Typical straw man argument. |
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tpaine
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At least,this puts to rest the canard about atheist states that don't "champion the philosophies of Thomas Paine, David Hume, Spinoza, Epicurus, Epictetus, Voltaire, Diderot, as political philosophies", not really being atheists.The key thing is that those states assert the non-existence of deities.
This version of "Christ's moral teachings" is a figment of your imagination.Typical straw man argument.
Can you point to where I have built straw men. These teachings are in your bible. Are you saying that I am mis-representing them? OK, Can you supply the correct understandings? |
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4 Play (m)
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Unless you have suddenly been struck by a comprehension paralysis,you need nobody to tell you that Jesus never taught do not resist evil or no condemnation of slavery.Nor do you need to be a genius to realise that the rest were not to be given a literal meaning.
For instance,no condemnation of slavery is supposed to be a "teaching." You are effectively saying that failure to mention something is effectively the same as asserting that it shouldn't be mentioned.In any case,the one real assertion,love your neighbor as your self,effectively covers the issue.
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tpaine
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Unless you have suddenly been struck by a comprehension paralysis,you need nobody to tell you that Jesus never taught do not resist evil or no condemnation of slavery.Nor do you need to be a genius to realise that the rest were not to be given a literal meaning.
For instance,no condemnation of slavery is supposed to be a "teaching." You are effectively saying that failure to mention something is effectively the same as asserting that it shouldn't be mentioned.In any case,the one real assertion,love your neighbor as your self,effectively covers the issue.
Why do you think Jesus would never have taught the "do not resist evil" doctrine? Is it becauseit would have been an evil thing to teach such a doctrine, OR is it because he just did not teach it? His tacit condoning of slavery is what is called in law, "the law or negligence". For goodness sake, this man was the son of God (or was he also God). He would have lived in an environment where at least 30% of people were slave, yet he is not documented as having said anything about this evil act. Why ? Is it because slavery is condoned in the OT and bearing in mind Matt 5: 17, he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it? Why was he more concerned about performing miracles when the majority of people lived in bondage, disease and starvation, or iked out a miserable existence as serfs. Why did he not cure or eradicate leprosy but cured one/more isolated instances of the condition. What lasting change did he leave the world other that sow the seeds of bigotry? Did he not know that what he was doing was going to cause this much chaos and bloodshed in his name? If he did not know, then he was no God. |
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ayobase (m)
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u will surely shut up
when you're tired.
i don't even have the time
to read most of your posts.
they are all junk!!!!
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