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Was Colonialism Good For Africa? - Politics - Nairaland

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Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Ndipe(m): 5:09am On May 04, 2006
Colonialism has always had a bad reputation,with dissidents complaining that it disrupted the peaceful existence of the African society. Others have gone so far to claim that the troubles of Africa is directly related to Colonialism. Chinua Achebe, Mongo Beti and a host of other authors have written blatantly against colonialism. The only exception was Camara Laye, whose favorable setting of Africa was savagely attacked by Mongo Beti. He queried if Laye was not aware of the negative consequences of Colonialism in his native Guinea.  Even Chinua Achebe's novel, Things Fall Apart, I think was written to counter the racist claims of Conrads novel, Heart of Darkness

But seriously, I may be in the minority who would wholeheartedly agree that Colonialism was more of a blessing to Africans than a curse. Some of us know the story of the slave trade in Nigeria, and while the white man has been blamed for introducing human cargo in the continent, don't forget that it was more or less (in some cases) a trade by barter. They supplied the white men with our people in exchange for a bottle of gin. Then, read Things Fall Apart again. The savage killing of Ikemefuna in compliance of the orders of the oracle, Okonkwo drinking palm wine from the head of a human being and his act of spousal beating, rather reinforces, instead of countering the negative perceptions of Africa. The greatest blessing ever is the introduction of Christianity into the African continent. And I know that it is a blessing, because the idols that our forefathers worshipped were non living things. We now worship a Living God and our future in the afterlife is guaranteed to be in His Presence, due to the Love of Jesus Christ.

But the pre-colonial period had its bright side. The breakdown of the family unit was an anathema, peace reigned in the society and people were just content to live a simple, happy life. But when the laws of the society mandated the reqirements needed for a revered title in the land(just like your shareholders would exert pressure on you to act, before becoming the CEO of an organization), some natives of the village resorted to practising some inhuman practises. Today, our family unit is not as stable as it was once before. Avarice has overtaken our simple natures. Now, kickbacks, fraud and dishonesty are reverred institutions in our society.

Still, colonialism had merits in our society, even though the likes of Nkrumah who associated colonialism with evil, along with his compatriots, still visible in the present day generation would probably rebuke me for my stance.

What is your opinion?
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Nobody: 2:40pm On May 04, 2006
Keep dreaming about the "good ol days". Yes colonialism was good for Africa in the sense that we have disjointed geographical expressions (mistakenly refered to as countries and aptly described by the "international community" as failed states) created not by us but for us by imperial nations on the 15th of Nov 1884.

While we are mindful of the fact that Africa's last attempt at "development" was during colonial times, it should not be lost on us that the benefit of such devt was to our colonial "masters" (make that to read: rogues!). I took a taxi a few days ago and the driver turned out to be sudanese with a good command of both hausa and fulani languages. Would there have been genocide if sudanese had opted to form their own nation state along common tribal (how i detest that word!) lines? Why would a nation be divided among two completely disimilar pples if not for mischievous purposes?

Why are the hausa speaking pple not in one nation and the yorubas in a separate nation?

Africa spends so much time "mediating" avoidable conflicts that it is hard to imagine having time to even develop!

So much for the good ol times!

1 Like

Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Reverend(m): 2:44pm On May 04, 2006
“Nobody, least of all me, claims that British imperial rule was perfect. But most sub-Saharan governments since independence have managed to treat their populations significantly worse than the British did. For all its imperfections, the Colonial Civil Service was not corrupt. When money was sent to build railways or schools, British officials did not simply pocket it”

“Between 1950 and 1995, Western countries gave away around $1 trillion (in 1985 prices) in aid to poorer countries, much of the money that has poured into poor countries since the 1950s has simply leaked back out - often to bank accounts in Switzerland. One recent study of 30 sub-Saharan countries calculated that total capital export for 1970-96 was some $187 billion, which, when accrued interest is added, implies that Africa's ruling elites had private overseas assets equivalent to 145 per cent of the public debts their countries owed. Roughly 80 cents on every dollar borrowed by African countries flowed back [to the West] as capital flight in the same year into these criminals bank accounts".

Nigeria is a very good example where British rule was far more productive than any Nigerian Government since independence!
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Seun(m): 3:03pm On May 04, 2006
Want to estimate the effect of colonialism in Africa? Go back in time to set up two completely identical African countries and allow only one of them to be colonized. If the colonized country ends up better off, it would strongly suggest that colonialism has done more good than harm, and vice versa.

However, we can't go back in time, the correct answer is that we'll never know whether or not colonialism was good for Africa! Even if we debate the issue forever and there will be no reliable conclusion. The fact of life is that before the UN was established, it was normal for militarily superior countries to take over weaker ones.

What we can do that will help Africa is to forget about the past move forward pragmatically.
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by New(m): 3:22pm On May 04, 2006
Nwoke,

Well said. Time to move on
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by my2cents(m): 4:29pm On May 04, 2006
With all due respect to the opinion of some posters:

I don't think we should forget about the past. As they say, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. It is imperative that we remember it, so that we can analyze it, learn from it and hopefully not repeat mistakes of the past.

Having said that, I don't think it was good for Africa, unless you call grouping together multiple nations together under one geographical border, resulting in internal strife ever since. Take Nigeria for example: 200+ tribes (pretty much nations) only held together by God's infinite mercies. Compare that to say, Germany, a true nation of pple speaking one language. Also don't forget the raping of our natural resources, the slavery, etc.

Finally, in my opinion, the title of the thread should be re-worded to "Is" and not "was". Why? cos in my opinion, we are still being colonized today. It's just more subtle.

okay, I am off my soapbox now. Flame me grin

1 Like

Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by panafrican(m): 5:03pm On May 04, 2006
angry Colonialism means after all overpowering a foreign land by all means necessary and using its natural resources in the way that best serves the interest of the invader,no matter how desastrous the outcome will be for the welfare of the invaded land.

Coloniaslim is not cooperation between two countries.

How many wars have been shearpheaded by shadowy hands in africa since this continent has started to have control on its own foreign and domestic policy ? how many people have been killed,wounded, or torturred during those wars? put this in balance with the so called benefit europeans are talking about.
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Rottweiler(m): 5:17pm On May 04, 2006
Nwoke:

Want to estimate the effect of colonialism in Africa? Go back in time to set up two completely identical African countries and allow only one of them to be colonized. If the colonized country ends up better off, it would strongly suggest that colonialism has done more good than harm, and vice versa.

However, we can't go back in time, the correct answer is that we'll never know whether or not colonialism was good for Africa! Even if we debate the issue forever and there will be no reliable conclusion. The fact of life is that before the UN was established, it was normal for militarily superior countries to take over weaker ones.

What we can do that will help Africa is to forget about the past move forward pragmatically.

How do we move forward pragmatically? When we have visionless people at the helms of affairs! We need the past to move forward positively! Take the Niger Delta issue for instance. How do we move forward pragmatically without going back to the past to ascertain the point of derailment.

Go to South Africa. The SA is what it is today because the whites. If a black man at being at the helms of affairs there, South Africa would have been worst off than Nigeria. The Zimbabwe that Mugabe inherited is in shambles today. What is the cause? Colonialism? NO! Visionless leadership. Mugabe was better as a freedom fighter than as a Head of state.

If you hand over 20million Naira in cash to some people today, check them out in 10 years time, they will be poorer than they were before the grant came. A visionless man is a disaster waiting to happen. That is the problem Naija and other African countries are having today.
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by New(m): 5:33pm On May 04, 2006
my2cents,

Grouping together a group of tribes shouldn't be a barrier to development. Lets take the UK, France and Germany as examples. These countries had several tribes residing within them before the Roman invasions. Check bbc.co.uk/History
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Idekeson(m): 5:42pm On May 04, 2006
No amount of development from colonialism can equate the basic right of self determination.
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by xkape(m): 5:50pm On May 04, 2006
Rottweiler:

How do we move forward pragmatically? When we have visionless people at the helms of affairs! We need the past to move forward positively! Take the Niger Delta issue for instance. How do we move forward pragmatically without going back to the past to ascertain the point of derailment.

Go to South Africa. The SA is what it is today because the whites. If a black man at being at the helms of affairs there, South Africa would have been worst off than Nigeria. The Zimbabwe that Mugabe inherited is in shambles today. What is the cause? Colonialism? NO! Visionless leadership. Mugabe was better as a freedom fighter than as a Head of state.

If you hand over 20million Naira in cash to some people today, check them out in 10 years time, they will be poorer than they were before the grant came. A visionless man is a disaster waiting to happen. That is the problem Naija and other African countries are having today.

Well said my broda
As long as we have leaders like mugabe, mbeki, obasanjo, africa will always be in the cess-pool of humanity. In fact as long as we have africans that keep refeering to the "plundering" of our resources by colononialist and refuse to face the very plunder we are doing to ourselves
Whwn white men were ruling nigeria trains were working, now most nigerian children dont even know what a train is, go figure
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by xkape(m): 6:00pm On May 04, 2006
Idekeson:

No amount of development from colonialism can equate the basic right of self determination.


Self determination my black behind!!
Like they determined themselves in Rwanda/Burundi? Like they are determining in Dafur, like we are being determined by 3rd term? And dont say that conflicts occur elswhere in the world cos i will be very pissed grin

But seriously, Africans have shown over time they cannot rule themselves or determine right from wrong, let alone self. And dont bring any be-proud -of-Africa rhetoric cos the onus is on us to disprove the above statements
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Seun(m): 7:05pm On May 04, 2006
How do we move forward pragmatically? When we have visionless people at the helms of affairs!

President Obasanjo was doing a satisfactory job until he started the infamous third term campaign. cry

We can move forward pragmatically by involving ourselves in entrepreneurship - creating opportunities with our own hands. In any nation, the business world is where true value is created. That's what I believe in. Business can thrive and create prosperity even if the government is not perfect - I mean look at China!
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Nobody: 7:24pm On May 04, 2006
We can move forward pragmatically by involving ourselves in entrepreneurship - creating opportunities with our own hands. In any nation, the business world is where true value is created. That's what I believe in. Business can thrive and create prosperity even if the government is not perfect - I mean look at China!

Gross generalisation!

No nation moves forward simply by citizens involving themselves in entrepreneurship! The duty of the Government is to CREATE AN ENABLING environment for the growth of the economy and NOT the citizens creating opportunities with their own hands.
Everywhere in the US and Europe, presidents are judged strongly on the basis of their ability to create jobs and lower the unemployment rates, in Nigeria we have been decieved that "govt cannot do it all". China did not get to where it is simply by the citizens creatiing jobs and the govt folding its hands.
Nigeria is not developed simply becos govt is not doing its own part of the social contract. We remain primarily a consumer nation, our main industry is "buying and selling", we are not producing and that is why we will remain stuck on oil as the primary revenue earner.
Selling pure water, recharge cards, importing and selling clothes, shoes, bags etc is not an example of a job that can stimulate economic growth.

An analogy is saying that the best way to revitalise the Agricultural sector is by encouraging subsistence farming!
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Seun(m): 9:22pm On May 04, 2006
Gross generalisation!
Among the generalizations, it's probably the best.

An analogy is saying that the best way to revitalise the Agricultural sector is by encouraging subsistence farming!
Imagine this:
1) A farmer/entrepreneur, recognizing that he would be able to earn more profits through mechanized agriculture, pools resources together to import and operate the required equipment.

2) A local engineer/entrepreneur, noticing the increased demand for agricultural equipment, decides to cash in on this opportunity by building a spare parts industry which eventually grows into an agricultural equipment manufacturing industry.

3) A trader/entrepreneur notices that, due to the increased productivity of the agricultural sector, goes into the agricultural raw materials export business in order to make more money.

So you have 3 industries created over time, with each industry created by entrepreneurs just looking for profit!

The beauty of capitalism is that people are able to work for the common good while primarily looking after their 'selfish' interests. It has succeeded where other systems have failed because it exploits the selfish human nature rather than trying to change it. Let the government handle security, and leave the rest to us!

The duty of the Government is to CREATE AN ENABLING environment for the growth of the economy and NOT the citizens creating opportunities with their own hands.
The government can best create an enabling environment by getting out of the way!
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Nobody: 9:36pm On May 04, 2006
1) A farmer/entrepreneur, recognizing that he would be able to earn more profits through mechanized agriculture, pools resources together to import and operate the required equipment.

Pools which resources? From where? Where are all the Agricultural Development banks meant to finance mechanized agriculture? The tools for mechanized agriulture are all produced abroad, going by the current inflation trend and exchange rate, only Obasanjo farms can afford to import them. No banks presently gives out loans to farmers and those that do have prohibitive interest rates. No import subsidies on agricultural implements and even NAFCON meant to produce fertilizer is now moribund. Clearly your argument is only pratical in dreamland.

2) A local engineer/entrepreneur, noticing the increased demand for agricultural equipment, decides to cash in on this opportunity by building a spare parts industry which eventually grows into an agricultural equipment manufacturing industry.
My dear, you talk as if building a spare parts industry is like building lego bricks. Where is the funding for such a capital intensive project? Is it viable in a Nigeria where gas and electricity are so scarce? Do you realise the expertise required in setting up such an investment?

3) A trader/entrepreneur notices that, due to the increased productivity of the agricultural sector, goes into the agricultural raw materials export business in order to make more money.
1. the agricultural sector is practically moribund.
2. Export business is capital intensive, there are no funds and no loans.
3. Nigeria's ports are currently not import or export friendly.
4. Where is your export market?

So you have 3 industries created over time, with each industry created by entrepreneurs just looking for profit!
Very probable only in theory. It is impossible to build a viable agriculture sector without government funds or at least bank loans. Ask Obasanjo farms of Nigeria!

The beauty of capitalism is that people are able to work for the common good while primarily looking after their 'selfish' interests. It has failed where other systems have failed because it is a system that exploits human nature rather than trying to change it. let the government handle security, and leave the rest to us!
The best example of capitalism is the United States of America and the govt is not just handling security and leaving the rest to us! Govt supports its flagging agric sector by buying goods from farmers at high prices and then selling at market price. In this way, losses are transfered to the govt and the farmers are not forced to raise the cost of their goods. in the long run, food is cheap for the poorest of the poor. Add other govt subsidies and you have govt that provides a conducive environment for the growth of its economy.
THE ROLE OF GOVT IS MUCH MORE THAN THAT OF SEURITY!
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by OldGlory1(m): 10:04pm On May 04, 2006
I will have to agree with David. The biggest company in the world is the US GOVT. The are always pumping in money into studies and R&D for all sorts of products. I think that capitalism thrives so well in the US because the government sets the rules and then lets everyone play by the same rules. Then stands on the sidelines and referees the game. In the process the has all sorts of social giveaways, and best of all gives everyone a right to basic/free education K-12. Safety nets, like Social Security, Medicare,Pension guarantees ETC go beyond security.

The US Government has many roles beyond security, that make it so effective. The taxes we pay are reinvested into society and it creates Jobs and creates ingenuity.Just announced today 05-05-06 Unemployment is 4.7%. In April the economy and government created 140k new jobs. Most in the service sector and the US Govt is still hiring.
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Seun(m): 11:20pm On May 04, 2006
The damage that would have been done by meddlesomeness of the US government has been absorbed by foreigners buying and using the US dollar as if it's gold. We are indirectly paying for all their R & D. It's sad.
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by zeb(m): 12:56am On May 05, 2006
It is only in Africa  I have seen dead men walking,  

What every African man want is  a Decent job, Nice house, Good car, Designers suits,
Beautiful wife, Good food,  Good education in the highest university with degree and PhD. etc,
I want to become like my master The English man so i can use all the things he uses.
This is the situation we have find our self  in.  (I want to become like my master, )

With all the education any African man can dream of is to use it against his own black people.   its a shame  struggling to take over the masters office. animals in white skin.
Now we see people fighting problems they don't know where it came from if it is from the Devil or Man made problems  or from God,
We see people saying colonialism is a blessing  and some say is not.
A   man that can not feed himself can not treat himself. a man that can not produce any thing for himself even needle.  Yet he can fight wars in large-scale.


Africa are confuse in their mind.  
85 percent of our population is in poverty.
we have to depend on foreign help  from politic to  food

Africa is a huge disgrace not just to all black people but to the whole world.
They got an excuse for everything except for doing the right thing which they simply cant get their heads around.
There is so much raw HATE in Africa between Africans that it makes you sick.
Africans expect everyone to respect them but they don't respect each other, from nation to nation, from culture to culture , and from village to village. What a pity.

All the blessing i got from colonialism is i can speak and write in English and worshiper my sweet JESUS CHRIST, Amen,
I am happy to take a dose of the Holy Ghost  daily to strengthen me against sick ppl.





I  rest my case here  and  
I go in peace,,
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by my2cents(m): 2:45am On May 05, 2006
New,

I never said that bringing together different tribes is or should be a barrier to development. So let us just nip that misquote right in the bud grin

I said (and meant) that it is tough to get various pples to agree on one thing. It may have worked for the English (I bet you had to dig deep for that one wink), but as they say, what is good for the goose may not be always good for the gander. The English are white, we are black; the English live in europe, we in Africa. *Generally speaking (I know I will get flamed for this grin)*, whites believe in bettering themselves, as Nigerians we let envy and jealousy get to us and hamper the efforts of the successful via "air forces".

In the end, could what happened in England work in Nigeria? Sure. But as we know, Nigeria has a history of defying every natural law known to man. Doubt me? All you need do is go to motor park on christmas eve. With numerous taxis at the park, someone just wakes up from his ogogoro-inspired sleep and jacks up the cost of transportation 300% lol
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by New(m): 10:39am On May 05, 2006
my2cents,

I hear you. But don't you think if the Nigerian government stopped 'tribal policies' i.e. setting up states according to types of peoples and instead merged communities, refrained from asking people what tribes they came before they can be enrolled in Universities/colleges within the country, the country will be a step closer to integration? And then maybe in 20-40+ years, the new generation will see themselves as Nigerians and not as yoruba, ibo or hausa etc. undecided Eventually working together, blah blah blah, (hopes and dreams).
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Reverend(m): 11:00am On May 05, 2006
Look what happened in ex Yugoslavia. General Tito created Yugoslavia out of Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Montenegro which prospered during his rule.

Once he died it all started falling apart. Then the killing started! Seperating people on the basis of their tribal loyalties is very dangerous.

Give people security, a decent place to live, a decent Job, a decent wage with good health care, modern infrastructure and a fair and stable political enviroment without corruption then 99% of them would not care if it was the British or Nigerians running the Country!

What price Independence? Look at the mess that has been created by Nigerian hands!
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by my2cents(m): 3:30pm On May 05, 2006
New,

I hear ya, but I would listen to what Reverend just posted. You can't just force *some* pple to co-exist. Yugoslav's, like the English, are white, but it didn't work for them. Truth is, God has truly been with us, we should have been worse, in my opinion, than Darfur by now.

As the Reverend said, give pple the basics of life and trust me, no one will care anymore. In my opinion, those who have use tribalism to inspire division amongst the have nots, while skimming off the benefits.
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by afrobeat: 5:10pm On May 05, 2006
xkape:


But seriously, Africans have shown over time they cannot rule themselves or determine right from wrong, let alone self. And don't bring any be-proud -of-Africa rhetoric because the onus is on us to disprove the above statements

Are you for real?!!!! What ethnic group do you come from in Nigeria? Are you going to tell me that your ethnic group was not ruling themselves before oyinbo people came to Africa? Come On!!!

I know for a fact that my people, the Bini's were ruling themselves properly before the Europeans came.

On another note Christianity was already in Africa before the Europeans came to colonise us. A classic example is that of Ethiopia. Christianity was their national religion for years!!!And please do not say that it would never have spread to western Africa and other parts of Africa without colonialism. There were missionaries in many countries before the Europeans decided they wanted to colonise us. We were trading and interacting with Europeans before colonialism. Ofcourse their religions would have spread to us as well through interaction. Africa would have continued changing and developing even without colonialism, because it is impossible for a people (continent ) to live in isolation from the world. Africans had already been to North America before colonialism ( see the Olmecs http://www.essaysbyekowa.com/olmecs.htm ) I am saying here that it is presumptious of us to say ( or imply, or look at this topic in such a way) that without colonialism Africans would have been stagnant in development. That is impossible because it goes against every law of the World, Life, Nature. There is a saying that goes there is nothing permanent except change

Who can really say whether colonialism was good for Africa?
If I said that colonialism was good for Africa, it would be saying that without colonialism African countries would be in a worse off situation? Can I really imagine a situation worse than Rwanda, Somalia, Congo, Liberia, e.t.c. I honestly find it hard to imagine a situation worse than what many African countries are currently experienceing
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by afrobeat: 5:13pm On May 05, 2006
xkape:

But seriously, Africans have shown over time they cannot rule themselves or determine right from wrong, let alone self. And don't bring any be-proud -of-Africa rhetoric because the onus is on us to disprove the above statements

Furthermore there are many of you on this board that believe that South Africa would not be as developed as they are now without the whites there. While this may or may not be true I find it really insulting or rather I feel a lot of pity for those of you Africans that look in the mirror everyday and think to yourself that White people are inherently better than you as a black person.
Because although you are not saying so with your mouth you are saying so with your thoughts and philosophy. For example by xkape saying that
Africans have shown over time they cannot rule themselves or determine right from wrong, let alone self.
xkape is implying that he as an African is incapable of ruling his people and determinig right from wrong. We all should be careful about the way we use our mouths to curse ourselves because the power of life and death is in the tongue.
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Nobody: 5:28pm On May 05, 2006
afrobeat, i doff my hat for u. excellent reasoning!
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by xkape(m): 6:30pm On May 05, 2006
afrobeat:

Furthermore there are many of you on this board that believe that South Africa would not be as developed as they are now without the whites there. While this may or may not be true I find it really insulting or rather I feel a lot of pity for those of you Africans that look in the mirror everyday and think to yourself that White people are inherently better than you as a black person.
Because although you are not saying so with your mouth you are saying so with your thoughts and philosophy. For example by xkape saying that xkape is implying that he as an African is incapable of ruling his people and determinig right from wrong. We all should be careful about the way we use our mouths to curse ourselves because the power of life and death is in the tongue.
with all due respect afrobeat. this is total bollox.
Please spare me the be-proud-of yourself-as -an african mantra. Its old, tired and has not stood the test of time.
I know exactly what i am, what i can do, what i can't. i don't need any validation from anybody or any association or comparison with any race, black or white
.
This said, u will be hard pressed to find anybody prouder of his ancestral heritage, his language,his culture, his beautiful women than me. If i came to the world a 100 times over i would still come as a Nigerian ( i would shuffle the tribe a bit though grin) But that does not make me close my eyes to the short-comings of my people.

That aside, why are we all afraid to call a spade a spade? As a human being, in his totality, no one is superior to another . But as groups of people, that is another issue. And superiority is relative, every group has their areas of comparative advantage. When was the last time u saw a white man in the finals of any major 100m dash? Who are those that produce arguably the most soulful music in the world. We accept stereotypes like black people having higher libido than whites and facts like we are physically superior in some sports but when someone suggests white superiority in other aspects we cry RACISM. why the double standard?

People of Indo-Europian stock have shown over time that they are very adept at organising large groups for productive endevour. They have also shown they are less impassioned and more objective in their world-view. THE ONUS IS ON US THE BLACK RACE TO PROVE WE CAN MATCH OR BETTER THEM in this respect just like it is on any white "wimp " to step up and run like carl lewis. the sad part is they seem to be most adept at those thing that change the course of nations and build civilizations. we have our own efforts too (ancient egypt, to an extent) but the deficit is definitelty on their side. if economies were developed by passion, religious fervour, dancing, epicurianism and athleticsm, africa would definitely be the world power.

and please no one should bring up the old europe underdeveloped africa theory. get over it. fight it, overcome it and stop complaining. start with africans underdeveloping africa. mugabe et al. thank god for people like Kuffor,maybe there is still hope
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by OldGlory1(m): 6:48pm On May 05, 2006
Point for Xkape. You just scored a goal!
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Reverend(m): 7:09pm On May 05, 2006
When was the last time u saw a white man in the finals of any major 100m dash?

When did you last see a Nigerian representing Nigeria in the final of any major 100m dash?
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by Nobody: 7:12pm On May 05, 2006
Reverend:

When did you last see a Nigerian representing Nigeria in the final of any major 100m dash?

Thanks to the general decay pervading the entire sports (sorry football) ministry
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by afrobeat: 10:07pm On May 06, 2006
with all due respect afrobeat. this is total bollox.
Please spare me the be-proud-of yourself-as -an African mantra. Its old, tired and has not stood the test of time.
I know exactly what I am, what I can do, what I can't. I don't need any validation from anybody or any association or comparison with any race, black or white

I am not doing the whole be -proud - of- yourself as an African mantra. I am simply saying that your reasoning is FAULTY/ILLOGICAL.

That aside, why are we all afraid to call a spade a spade?

I am not afraid to call a spade a spade. I know that our rulers in Africa have sucked big time. I know that after colonialism most of us made a mess out of democracy. The reason why things were so bad after colonialism is a complex issue and cannot simply be reduced to "Africans being inferior, stupid, ignorant, " or whatever you want to call it.
Many factors have contributed to the current state of affairs in African countries such as bad leadership, neo-colonialism, tribalism, and other things. To reduce the fact that many African countries are underdeveloped simply to us being deficient is reductionism. Most things in life happen for a variety of complex and multiple reasons.


In addition, Colonialism really began to take off in the late 1800's and early 1900's . African people have been in existence for thousands if not millions of year before colonialism. In fact don't they argue that we were the first people in history. In addition we had many great Kingdoms and people such as the Yoruba, Bini's Hausa, Asante, Zulu's Nubians e.t.c. These Kingdoms all had great histories and were successful  for certain periods of history, often hundreds of years. Many of these kingdoms were so successful that Even the Europeans knew of us and wanted to hang with us.

Now fast forward to modern day Africa after colonialism. The truth is that many of the African countries have made a mess of our nations since the end of colonialism. However xkape it seems as though you are making negative judgments about the nature of African people  based on only 50 years or so  of  life after colonialism.  Africans have done many positive things in the past and just because in the present we are making a mess of ourselves that does not mean that we are overall, inherently, have always been and will always be Inferior, stupid, or whatever other word you want to use.

For example, "The Kingdom of Benin was a widespread empire that flourished from the 14th to the 19th century." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Benin). After colonialism ended in 1960, and during the military rule and even in this current administration, Benin has deteriorated and is now practically in shambles . But it would be ILLOGICAL for me to say that Benin people are inferior to Europeans based only on 46 years of history when from the 14th century to the 19th century Benin was flourishing.
Re: Was Colonialism Good For Africa? by afrobeat: 10:20pm On May 06, 2006
I apologise for breaking up my post like this but I find that reading one lengthy post can be tiresome

As a human being, in his totality, no one is superior to another . But as groups of people, that is another issue

If you are implying that groups of people can be superior to other groups of people then this is contradictory. You imply that no human being is superior to another but groups of people can be superior to other groups of people. But aren't groups of people made up of individual human beings? If individual human beings are contained in groups of people and no individual human being is superior to another individual human being then it necessarily follows that no group of people are superior to other groups of people.

Furthermore, the fact that you actually imply this reinforces my point that although you do not say with your mouth that you are inherently inferior to white people you imply it with your thinking and your arguments.

I can agree when you say that
every group has their areas of comparative advantage
. I can say yes at a certain time in history and in a certain place certain people can do better than others in certain aspects/fields but I would never use that to say that it means that the group doing better at that point in time in that particular field is superior. Superior is such a wrong choice of word.

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