Scandal: Pastor Chris Oyakhilome In South African Trouble!

@ AKO

I'm not sure you were addressing my post. Whatever daylight miracle means, 'Pastor Chris miracles' are done in the daylight, so thats not the issue here. It's unbelievers that need to see before they believe. May be you should search your bible again for the definition of FAITH. Hebrews 11:1 comes in handy. Remember also, without faith no man can please God. So faith is not just about miracle alone. Your relationship with God, which qualifies you to be called a Christian, is through faith.

In Hebrews 11:1-

 1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.


3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible

From the above, you see that faith itself is the EVIDENCE. Thats the principle of Christianity.

Unbelievers may need to see to believe. A Christian uses faith as the evidence.

now to Pastor chris issue, in the early days of his ministry, critics were mainly talking about arranged miracles. These days it's the source of the power they talk about.

If you need evidence, go to the Christ embassy healing school next month and see.

@fyne guy:

This is what I said: "in broad day light and were provable." You ignored the word 'provable'.
If I am believing God for a car and 1 year down the line I am still trekking, my faith for the car is still active. However, once the car comes, my faith for the car terminates because I have seen it, it is no longer 'not seen'. This now strengthens my faith for any other thing I may want to ask for in the future. Like I also said, when a 'miracle' that ought to have been performed on the spot is medically questionable, I think it is perfectly okay to doubt it's genuity.

I agree with you that faith is the bedrock of christianity. I am a bit concerned however, about your interpretation of the concept of faith. I need faith to receive a particular miracle from God but ONCE IT IS PHYSICALLY MANIFESTED, I don't need faith TO BELIEVE FOR THAT PARTICULAR THING!!. An unbeliever cannot have faith to believe God for something but once they see that particular thing manifested, they do not need faith, they just believe because their eyes have seen.

Hence, if a miracle is supposedly done by Pastor Chris and (for instance), someone is supposed to have been cured instantly from HIV and they go to the hospital only to find out that the virus is still there, I do not need any faith to believe that the virus had been removed. According to the Pastor, it had been removed, i.e. the miracle had been manifested. It is different if it were to be a gradual process. If it is still there, it was not removed. Period.

I do not think you bothered to read the first post of this thread. I't all about arranged miracles, pastors paying people to fake it. So you missed it on that point my brother.

Lol Bro Ako,

I can see some aspects of faith is STRONG MEAT for you.


The strong meat is this, i know u may not catch it, FAITH is not trying to get it. FAITH means I have it and I act in the knowledge of it. I will give an instance. If I have faith as per buying a car, I will go and process my driver's licence and prepare a packing space for it. I am already acting as though I have it in the physical realm. An unbeliever would ask me if I already bought the car or why process my licence and prepare a space for it. It wouldnt make sense to unbelievers, They would say "Bro, wait first, let your prayer be answered" Thats for babes in christ or unbelievers. For 'faith Christians' you possess it in the spiritual realm and it definitely will manifest in the physical.

For the barren that has 'real faith' she would go shopping for baby wears, even when theres nothing to show that a baby is coming. When they ask her: "madam how far, are u pregant', she says "YES'!  she hasnt lied
It means she's pregnant spiritually and it definitely will manifest soon.

Like I said earlier, this is strong meat words of faith and it takes Christians in ZION, who has GINOSKO (speacialised knowledge of God and His words). Christians with Zoe as opposed to SUKE (carnally minded).

I insist only babes in christ and unbelievers wait to see it manifest in the physical realm before they believe they have it.

FAITH is the evidence u have it!  Faith doesnt try to get it!, "Get it" is at teh spiritual realm. You start praising God at that level.


Now as regards healing, If a pastor prayed for you as per malaria, for instance,and he said, you are healed. If you felt feverish later. It doesnt mean you are not healed. Thats the test of faith. You insist that you are healed. You reject the symptoms. Thats physical. Faith is consummated at the spiritual level. Again thats some strong meat.

Take Peter for instance:

And Peter answered Him and said, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.”
29 So He said, “Come.” And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous,[a] he was afraid; and began to sink he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!”

He walked on the water until he looked at the boisterous wind which he felt could sweep him off his feet. well thats logical/reasonable. the wind could do that. However, thats anti-Faith. walking onthe sea itself is not logical, so why consider the logical power of the wind?

FAITH doesnt wait till it's manifested in the physical brotha, I pray u get to that STRONG MEAT level with christ.

Lastly, faith is not all about miracles and prayers. Your relationship with God itself is by Faith. He may ask you to do certain things which aint reasonable or logical, but faith would make you do it.

fyne guy this might dissapoint you but I didnt regard what you said as STRONG MEAT 

Let me even give you scripture

 Mr 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

We see from this scripture that receiving in the realm of the spirit is different from having in the physical realm. So I knew all you said before you said it, k?

All christians have zoe, the LIFE OF GOD in their spirits.


It is either you did not see or you ignored the fact that I focused on 'instant' miracles i.e. miracles that are physically manifested immediately. Thats what most of the pastors offer, in yourba we call it 'lesekese', you may have seen that on a handbill somewhere. When a miracle is reported like that and it is medically questionable, thats what Im talking about here. Even the guys that receive later, how do we know that they had genuine problems before? By faith?
The only solution to this crisis in the church is that some of us christians and pastors need the boldness to do instant miracles, Jesus style. For example when an amputated limb grows out or when a person rises from the dead, thats what I am talking about. we aint seen that yet.

i'm still shocked at the spirited defense of men of God. such denial has ran many catholic dioceses in the US to bankruptcy.  these men are human not GODS.

what lies??

http://www.emailwire.com/release/12482-CATHOLIC-CHURCH-Bankruptcy-News-Issue-No-120.html

Hey,never knew Thomas was goina come back to this life again.


for all u pastor Chris haters,im sorry, go listen to the tape "A MAN SENT FROM GOD", where is Fame magazine today,Tempo,vintage,global Excellence, Excel journal to mention a few,their publisher are so broke that the even beg for money. Go ask Ade Osijola of Excel,he waalks round the street,looking fir whom to borrow from.
All of you that are still dicussing this issue,u are just playing with your future,anything contrary ti the NAME OF JESUS is fake,so why on earth will someone be using that great name to work "FAKE" miracles,i pray that the annointing will not crush anyone of u.

No ones threatening anyone here, its just a prayer.
the problem here is that ppl refuse to see.
Badagry is the poorest town in this country today not becos theyy are not part of lagos,as a matter of fact thats the first town missionaries stepped upon.but there many men and women of God were killed,their blood still cries,remember God warned, touch not my annointed and do no harm unto my prophet

Africa enslaves the Isrealites,way back during the years of the Pharoahs,today they are still the poorest continent in the world.u dont touch Gods ppl and go free.

America is where they are today because they are Isreals number one ally.  think about this

you will kill someone o

@Ako

 On ZOE, there are 2 types of christians

1. They believe Jesus is their Lord and Saviour but they still live according to their senses/feelings.

2. They have come to know Jesus and who they really are and live according to the spirit

Zoe is beyond saying "Yes I believe Jesus came to die for me and rose again the 3rd day. Thats why I go to church, bla bla bla"

Zoe means you have come to know you derive your life from the spirit not from the blood in your veins. You have submitted yourself to the direction of the spirit. You feed on the words of God. hence your mentality has changed and it reflects in your words and actions.

You can claim to be a christian yet you havent activated the life that has been made available to you. Hence, you still dont have zoe. Zoe is just available but you havent accepted it.

Oh yes. Zoe.
Whatever happened to that (419) Zoe Ministries??

Their pastor suddenly went underground.

Did his own Zoe expire?

I have absolutely no idea and do not care about what you are saying. How can something thats everlasting expire?

Anyway, its either one of us is checking the wrong dictionary or we are both taking the word out of context, due to our inablility to speak Greek.

I went back to my Strong's Greek Dictionary just like you said. In John  3:16, what I saw as 'have' is 'echo' meaning:
 a primary verb; to hold such as possession; ability, contiuity, relation, or condition):--be (able, X hold, possessed with), accompany I also suggest that you check this link for the correct interpretation of 'have' in good old John 3:16 :http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/frequency.cgi?number=2192&book=joh&translation=nsn

With regards to Lambano, here is a good example of the correct context in which it is used:
"Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive (lambano), so that your joy may be made full.


Now, looking at it from your own point of view, it IS possible for a christian to be ignorant of the 'zoe' in them. But the fact that they are ignorant does not mean it isn't there, I choose to stand by that.
Thanks for the discussion anyway, at least now I know the difference between lambano and echo. That's what healthy debate like this is for anyway. However, people like imhotep would only see it as 33,000 sects bickering at each other.  

fyneguy has a slightly different view below ==>

Now, this is the perfect recipe for future  disagreement  and division.

Disagreement and division leads to the creation of more sects that bicker at each other.

Think about this: Is there really any CHURCH UNITY since in your opinion, the 33,000 sects keep bickering at each other, and the RCC  is perpetually disagreed with the protestants & vice versa? Why do you see the 33,000's disagreeing with each other as disunity, but the RCC's disagreement with protestants as the RCC's unity? What puts the RCC in that special class of its own that makes it unified even though it disagrees with others, yet the protestants are disunified for the same reason ?  Please don't give me the bulahlah about the approval of the bible because we have exhaustively dealt with that.

Could the beaking up of the church into 33,001 sects be seen as the RCC's (since ya'll believe in apostolic succession) utter failure to keep the church together? If Jesus built His rock/church on Peter and Peter handed down to everyone else till Benedict-da-16th, should/should not the breaking away of some members of the church to other sects be blamed on poor leadership somewhere along the line?

I have said time and time again that I am personally not particular about what sectarian umbrella I am under; that the most important thing is doing what is in the bible, period. If you choose to see me as protestant just because I dont pray to Mary, etc, you are in a world of your own where I am concerned. I dont do a lot of what the RCC does because a lot of it is extra-biblical doctrine that has been approved by the leadership of the RCC but is not bible, hence is not compulsory for me to do. For clarity, I would no longer like to be referred to as 'protestant'. When next you want to generalise the 33,000, count me OUT. Your pride should not be in the fact that you belong to a '''unified''' sect, but that you are on your way to heaven and will get a good reward there.

 Just some food for thought.

_{chei we don deviate from topic oh!!!}