The Gospel Of Barnabas(the True Forgotten Gospel)

But it is CENTRAL to your belief system. How can an un-biblical term like the TRINITY be the backbone of your christianity?

Yes.

But have you also searched for the word TRINITY?

2 Corinthians 13: 14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Jn. 5:18 For this reason the Jewish leaders were trying even harder to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was also calling God his own Father, thus making himself equal with God.

 - Even the Jewish leaders knew?  

1 Corinthians 2: 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.  11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
 
We recieve the Spirit of God which is God Himself who is also Christ Himself as the Jewish leaders knew in John 5!

I close this senseless, meaningless and shady crying for "answers" with this eloquent statement from a man of God - Because the word trinity is never found in the Bible some wonder about whether this is a biblical doctrine or not, but the absence of a term used to describe a doctrine does not necessarily mean the term is not biblical. The issue is, does the term accurately reflect what the Scripture teaches?

Penance and purgatory may not be found in the bible but do they describe doctrines that are biblical? THAT is the question Imhotep . . . that is all required of you . . . pussyfooting and prevaricating will get you no where.

Thanks!

TRINITY is still missing.

Go and read your bible very well.


==================
By the way, I just remembered something. I was once told that, during a church service, Pastor Adeboye told his congregation that he had a vision from God. In that vision, it was revealed to him that, if rapture was to occur, only 7 of them in that church service would make it to heaven.
This got me thinking. How could it be that a large majority of his church congregation, who claim CONFESS DIRECTLY TO GOD, were NOT acceptable to God?. So much for bible reading and cramming.

Is this verse a clear endictment against those persons, who said, in their earlier and many arguments to prrof to us that God was known as father by the Jews? Please read the text, again and decide for yourself. From the tone, it is very obvious that the Jews found the claim by Jesus to be a son to the God they know to be childless as blasphemy.

I remember some individuals who argued this point of father and son relationship and in so doing made claims that their Bible is opposing them on. The Bible itself, here and now opposes itself. Now tell me did the Old Children of Israel Prophets, eg Moses, etc, called God their father? Did the Children of Israel called God their father? Are the children of Israel, aka, the Jews suffering from cronic amnesia by their finding Jesus to be spewing blasphamous things, by what the New testament writers claimed that he said his relationship was beside being an elect of God in prophethood and messengership to his nations?

Can anyone now see that the Bible itself supports and witnesses for Muhammad bin Abdallah, the unlettered prophet and messenger (as)? Where are the people who claimed that they left Islam because they find it and its last prophet to be false? Have they shamely returned back to Islam? Which position is true when an entity takes two completely opposing positions to each other on an issue? How would you know which position is probably likely to be true? You check the texts of both of them, with what was the prevailing knowledge before the two statements were made. In this case, from the above verse, we see that the Jews were angry that somebody is now claiming to be son of god, when such a statement was never made before, by anyone or any group. If it had ever been made, there would never have been any reason for the Jews to be upset and find such a statement to be blasphamous.

Then you check the statement made about it from the latest witness, who seems disinterested and having no obvious gain from the controversy in the first place. WE check the veracity of the character of this entity to know how upstanding he is within the circle of those wo knew him. We see that Muhammad (as) was nicknamed the "trustworthy," by the Makkans. And his followers were certain of his statement in honesty that they were not ashamed to recite the verse essence of denial of Jesus and God not being related as son and father, but only as messenger and God, respectively.

Glory to Allah who has raised Muhammad up and gave him the religion of islam, dealing in natural moderations. I am grateful to Allah Who had made me a Muslim.

@Davidylan



Baptising them in the name of Father, son and Holy Spirit is quite different from God is the father, the son and the holy Spirit, so do not try to smuggle that and give it wrong interpretation.

The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity.

A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge notes that many say that the Trinity "is a corruption borrowed from the heathen religions, and engrafted on the Christian faith."

The Encyclopedia Americana comments: "Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.

Carry on with your debate but will come in when I notice mis-interpretation of biblical verses.

@Davidylan: I know am hypocritical. So I need to do better about Islam. But what is amiss in your case is that you just did not see why the Jews, in John 5 verse 18 were up in arms against Jesus? The truth is that they considered Jesus to be blasphemous in speech by claiming to be equal to God by his statement that God is his Father. This in itself point to us, that if anybody before Jesus ever claimed that god was his father, such a person will be saying something to the effect that he is equal to God. This is why the Jews God upset. If such a claim did not mean such a thing as being equalto God, the Jews would never have gotten so angry with Jesus, that they are determined to terminate his life.

Further, were a speech like that ever been made to indicate any other meaning than what the Jews took Jesus supposed statement to mean they would not have so shocked at his strange statement. In other words, David (Omo Baba "Nuga of Ijebu Ode), the Bible part of the old testament is being contradicted by John 5 Verse 18. This verse is actually saying to us that no one before Jesus had ever said it and was not challenged for saying something blasphamous. It seems though by the surprise that Jesus ever dared to say something like this indicated to any keen minded observer that it was never have said by any one before what was claimed to have been said by Jesus. This truly terminated as false all the verses that alluded to son/children of God in the Old testament.

We then have to agree that John 5 verse 18 completely disagrees with the thought that Trinity or multiplicity of God head9s) ever was accepted by the jews. While John 5 Verse 18 agrees with Mark 12 verse 29, where jesus let us know that he was a slave servant who worshipped the same Lord God as his audience or primary followers, we never will notice that that very verse serves as an iconoclast to any verse claimed to have been attached to him and all the post ascension verses that alluded to him being part of and or equal to God, in any form. This verse smashed into completely useless pieces the idea of Trinity.

Where is this woman called osisi? She needs to wake up and put on hijab and kimar. The days of humanitarian Doctors are not gone, yet. (Courtesy of Dr. Ekpo Eyo!).

@Davidylan: Tell me in your writing before bab's response to you above, why are the jews trying to kill him; because they belived he was God and therefore telling the truth, or because they deemed himas liar in his blasphemous speech, hence they were intending to rid their society of a liar?
Again did they see him as a truth teller or liar by this very claim of being "equal to God?" I do not think that his good deeds on sabbath is enough to make the jews want to kill him. But his statement which they construed as saying that he is considering himself equal to god is. Pleas tell us which one is the reason that they want to kill him? You must bear in mind that they even were ashamed when he told them about forgiveness in the case of the woman accused of adultry, so it will not be surprising that his good deed on sabbath is a way to show them kindness on that day, too.

What was he showing them in being declaring himself to be equal to God, except blasphemy? Afterall, the Jews believe that God can not be seen by human and still live to tell about it. You better be ready for your Jilbab, Dvaid, if you can't explain yourself. I know you can't.

@ Babs787: Alhamdulillah ladhi adaana Islam (I am thankful to Allah that my way is Islam). David you must answer the incompleteness of your earthly God.  Leave the non_muslim authored Dictionary definition of Jihad alone. The muslims know the truth. Its in the Qur'an and hadith. Its like Ragu Spagetti sauce; its in there. Where is your in your Bible? Thats the Trillion Dollar question.

Alhaji, your understanding of the bible is poor. Arguing with you is like trying to make a mule read.

Another hypocrite.


The thread is all about muslims quoting a WELL KNOWN FRAUDULENT book as a way to denigrate the same bible they turn around to force mohammad into.


Why the desperation to show predictions ONLY from the bible? Has the quran no predictions of its own?
Did not your brothers tell us the bible was corrupted by the pen of the scribes and YET mohammad is still predicted there?


How can you discern "truth" in a fraud?


Another islamic mule . . . does the sun still set in a muddy spring?


A "coming" not predicted by the quran but found only in the bible?  What a fraud.
Looking for those indoctrinated to hate? Look at the quran and its prediction of what to do to the jews and people of the book.

@Ndipe:

For you who denies that God Almighty is One and therefore claims trinity, by your denial, read John 5 verse 18 with a follow up  with Mark 12 verse 29. And if you can see the differences between them and what you have quoted, you need to know in your heart that some verses are lying, and there is no way around the blatant corruptions.

When two friends are taking opposite sides on an issue, definitely, one must be wrong. Now Ndipe, group of Biblical verses is wrong? That is your problem. Now let me tell you, since John 5 Verse 18 tells us that the Jews considered Jesus' statement as blasphemous, it tells us that they never have heard anyone saying he is son of God before, hence claiming to be equal to God. This then opposes any explanation of trying to fit Trinity into the Old Testament. It just doesn't work.

Ndipe, am waiting to see you wearing jilbab. Igbo people are now turning to Islam. You will not be first, my man.

Until, when (he) reached (the) setting sun percieving it west in a hot (can also mean black or muddy) water.



According to the interpretation written down by the Arabs hundreds of years ago this meant that the Sun was found setting on the horizon to the far west. If you've ever been to a beach you'd understand this verse.



According to Muhammed's personal sayings on the sun he states.



The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing."  (36.38)



Whilst some would be astounded by this and use it to vehemently claim that Muhammed preached of a flat earth and a orbiting sun (instead of an orbiting earth). No sign of any of these notions exist, actually this very anecdote would be more proof that Muhammed himself believed the world was round.



Firstly you must understand that the place the sun is supposed to go to, the Throne of Allah, is over the heavens as taught in Surah, The Cow:



255. (, )His throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them.(, )



The Throne is above or over the Heavens and the Earth. Then why is it that the Sun which appears to go below the earth by the primitive eyes of men is explained as going to the Throne of Allah? This would only make sense if the world was a sphere, which span and had neither an up nor down, by the way, just incase you didn't know it is.



Nevertheless, one would still argue that the sun is explained as going somewhere, i.e. travelling during the sunset and sunrise phase.



Whilst the sun does travel, we know it doesn't go around the earth, which means that the entire statement is allegorical. Not to be taken seriously, nor did the Arabs believe it was. Historical Arab beliefs show nothing of a literal Sun setting in a water, before or after Islam. It's not like they don't know the Quran either, the people memorise it page to page. The explanation of Quran has never displayed this sort of belief by any of the historical scholars. The only people who believe in this interpretation are Christians and Athiests and anyone that wants to libel Islam. Such as a specific person in this thread wants to,  Not mentioning names.



How do we know this is allegorical? Well the entire explanation of the Hadith shows this, such as with the prostration of the Sun, the travelling, the asking permission. Even if you were to argue Muhammed believed the Sun could travel and ask for permission. There is nothing to show that anyone could believe the sun could prostrate.



It's undoubtedly allegorical.



Nevertheless, this thread isn't about truth it's about certain members fear. Notice one particular member, upon seeing any reply he will instantly label the poster that doesn't co-incide with his beliefs as a hypocrite, liar, deciever, fraud and anything else that will help him to believe that his religion is true. This is due to fear, he is afraid that his beliefs will be refuted and rebutted and so that fear leads to anger and he will manipulate that anger with his bias into voraciously tearing away at the most negative words in his mind in order to associate his opponents with deception and deceit and then in doing so he feels a tad bit content with his own beliefs.



You can always see fear in a person for his beliefs, one of the major signs is calling people liars. What's most interesting is that upon my first post he called me a hypocrite.



People like him wont even be able to understand my words here, as a matter of fact I doubt he will make it through most of my post without his mind exploding. There is little we can do to help him other than to ask Allah to guide him and bring him back to, at least, a rationale way.



Ameen





The book is fraudelent by theory and want. It is fraudelent by content. The students that took part in trying to define why it was fraudelent gave no sparing thought as to whether it had been authentic or not.


Well I figured you didn't believe in what the Quran had to say, but if you do I could show you how the Quran explains the earth as a sphere, the layers of darkness in the ocean, how milk is produced in the Mammary glands, how rainfall is produced, embryology and much much more, hundreds of years before any "scientist" could define it. But I figured that much wouldn't make much of a difference to you,

So we turn to the bible, 

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

The Lord didn't put his words into any prophet's mouth but Muhammed who was from the brethren of the children of Isaac, the children of Ishmael (Isaac's Brother). Like unto thee (Moses). Jesus was not like Moses, but Muhammed was. Isn't that interesting?

Better yet, Muhummed is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon 5:16. The Hebrew word used there is  Muhammuddim. The end letters  I'm is plural of respect majesty and grandeur. Minus  "I'm" the name would be Muhamud translated as "altogether lovely" in the Authorised Version of the Bible or  'The Praised One' 'the one worthy of Praise' i.e. MUHUMMED!(P.B.UH)

Also,


AND THE BOOK IS DELIVERED TO HIM THAT IS NOT LEARNED, SAYING, READ THIS I PRAY THEE: AND HE SAITH, I AM NOT LEARNED.(Isaiah 29:12).

Those words are the exact description of Muhammed's (Peace be upon him) first encounter with Gibrael.

There are more, but I get the feeling that this will have little effect on your minds,


Hey don't put yourself down. Your book isn't a complete fraud,  It's just corrupted, not sure how, but I imagine an animal farm sort of scenario.


The amount of fear you exhibit is astounding.


Also found in many anecdotes and traditons from Muhammed actually,  Just so you know.

What does the Quran say we should do to the People of the Book?






And when you're done trying to believe that you can find some real inspiration in these:-

Jesus is not the only son of God, actually we're not exactly sure how many sons he had.

The intelligent explanation is that they're ALL allegorical (No playing favorites now, though I know you will)

'Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38

"That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose. ". . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4

" . . Thus- saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22

" . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN," JEREMIAH 31:9

" . . Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7   ("BEGOTTEN" How can God beget David at the age of forty? "This day'?)

(f) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD. ' ROMANS 8:14


Think my Christian friends, please,

As for the only Trinity, I was aware there was a verse that half supported it.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.  John 5:7

But then, 9 Christian scholars agreed that was more than likely fabricated.

As for Jesus Divinity, I can only quote a book which covers this topic and leave you with only thought.

A few verses which make it seem as if Jesus had no divinity at all and bring one to question why his divinity is believed.

THE DEVELOPMENT OF "GOD"

Spiritual Development of "God":  "And the child grew, and waxed strong in
spirit, filled with wisdom."  (Luke, 2:40)

Mental, Physical and Moral Development of "God":  "And Jesus increased in
wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man."  (Luke, 2:52)

"God" Was 12 Years Old When His Parents Took Him to Jerusalem:  "Now his
parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.  And when
he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the
feast."  (Luke,  2:41-42)

The Powerless "God" (Jesus) said:  "I can of mine own self do nothing."
(John, 5:30)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Time.  Jesus said:  "But of that day and that hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but
the Father."  (Mark, 13:32)

"God" Was Ignorant of the Season:  "And on the morrow, when they were come
from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry:  and seeing a fig tree afar off having
leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when
he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not
yet."  (Mark, 11:12-13)

"God" Was Unlettered: "Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into
the temple, and taught.  And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man
letters, having never learned?"  (John, 7:14-15)

"God" Learnt Through Experience:  "Learned he obedience by the things which
he sufered."  (Hebrews, 5:


THE TEMPTING OF "GOD"

The Devil Tempted "God" For 40 Days:  "And immediately the spirit driveth him
into the wilderness.  And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted
of Satan."  (Mark,  1:12-13)

The Devil Tempted "God" Continuously:  "And when the devil had ended all the
temptation, he departed from him for a season."  (Luke,  4:13)

Like the Sinners, "God" Was Tempted In All Things:  "But (he) was in all
points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."  (Hebrews,  4:15)

True God Cannot be Tempted With Evil:  "God cannot be tempted with evil,
neither tempteth he any man." (James,
1:13)

Only The Ungodly Are Tempted With Evil:  "But every man is tempted, when he
is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."  (James,  1:14)


THE MISSION OF "GOD"

The Confession and Repentance of "God":  before the beginning of his public
ministry:  "Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist" (Matthew,  3:13), "which
signified the confession of sins" (Matthew, 3:6), "and repentance from sins
(Matthew, 3:11).

"God" Did Not Come to Save the Sinners:  "And when he was alone, they that
were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.  And he said unto
them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:  but
unto them that without, all these things are done in  parables:  That seeing
they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not
understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should
be forgiven them."  (Mark,  4:10-12)


THE RACIAL "GOD"

"God" Was a Tribal Jew:  "The lion of the tribe of Juda."  (Revelation, 5:5)

"God" Came For The Jews Only:  "But he answered and said, I am not sent but
unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."  (Matthew, 15:24)

Racial Discrimination of "God":  "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and
commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any
city of the Samaritans enter ye not:  But go rather to the lost sheep of the
house of Israel."  (Matthew, 10:5-6)

According to "God", The Gentiles Are Dogs:  "It is not meet to take the
children's bread, and to cast it to dogs."  (matthew, 15:26)

The Kingdom of "God":  And he (Jesus) shall reign over THE HOUSE OF JACOB for
ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."  (Luke, 1:33)

The Titles of "God":  "The king of the Jews"  (Matthew, 2:2),  "The king of
Israel" (John, 1:49; 12:13)


A "GOD" UNLIKE THE GOD

A Hungry "God":  "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was
afterward an hungered."  (Matthew 4:2),  "Now in the morning as he returned
into the city, he hungered."  (Matthew, 21:18), "and on the
morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark, 11:12)

A Thirsty "God":  "(He) saith, I thirst."  (John, 19:28)

A Sleepy "God":  "He was asleep."  (Matthew, 8:24),  "He fell asleep" (Luke,
8:23), "And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow."
 (Mark, 4:38)

A Weary "God":  Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on
the well."  (John,  4:6)

A Groaning "God":  "He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled." (John,
11:33),  "Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave."
(John, 11:38)

A Weeping "God":  "Jesus wept."  (John, 11:35)

A Sorrowing "God":  "And (he) began to be sorrowful and very heavy." (Matthew
26:37).  "Then saith he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto
death."  (Matthew, 26:38)

A Hysterical "God":  "And (he) began to be soreamazed and to be very heavy."
 (Mark, 14:33)

A Weak "God":  "And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven,
strengthening him."  (Luke, 22:43)

Chapter 56 (TITLE UNKNOWN)  

God shall open the book in the hand of his Messenger, and his Messenger reading therein shall call all the angels and prophets and all the elect, and on the forehead of each one shall be written the mark of the Messenger of God. And in the book shall be written the glory of paradise.

Then shall each pass to the right hand of God; next to whom shall sit the Messenger of God. and the prophets shall sit near him, and the saints shall sit near the prophets, and the blessed near the saints, and the angel shall then sound the trumpet, and shall call Satan to judgment.

Chapter 58  CONCERNING JUDGEMENT

While Jesus was speaking the disciples wept bitterly. And Jesus wept many tears. Then after he had wept, John spoke: "O master, we desire to know two things. The one is, how it is possible that the Messenger of God, who is full of mercy and pity, should have no pity on reprobates that day, seeing that they are of the same clay as himself? The other is, how is it to be understood that the sword of Michael is [as] heavy as ten hells? Is there more than one hell?"

Jesus replied: "Have you not heard what David the prophet says, how the just shall laugh at the destruction of sinners, and shall deride him with these words, saying: I saw the man who put his hope in his strength and his riches, and forgot God. Truly, therefore, I say to you, that Abraham shall deride his father, and Adam [shall deride] all reprobate men: and this shall be because the elect shall rise again so perfect and united to God that they shall not conceive in their minds the small[est] thought against his justice. Each of them shall demand justice, and above all the Messenger of God. As God lives, in whose presence I stand, though now I weep for pity of mankind, on that day I shall demand justice without mercy against those who despise my words, and most of all against those who defile my gospel.

You have clearly missed baptism, isn't that a rite in the Christian faith?
You've also missed reconciliation, isn't this too a rite in the Christian faith?
(I am really waiting for you to say no, so that you can be exposed as a non-christian)


If you discredit penance, you discredit repentance, you discredit reconciliation, you discredit confession. We just happen to have a structure and an actual understanding of reconciliation.


NO.


1 Corinthians 7: 6-9
 6But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

 7For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

 8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

 9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

There are other Bible verses, but this is the one I can think of off head, I will come back later on to add more to this.
Especially the one about virgins being concerned about the things of God and married people be concerned about things of the world, how to please their husband and wife.

Look it is not compulsory for men to be priests they have 10 years to make up their mind. If they want to marry thenthey won't be priests if they don't want to marry then they can become priests.

Now if you will please allow me to finish and stop turning a blind eye to what I post before you.
If you want we can tackle each issue one by one until we go through each of them. Since you don't have patience.
Let me know which one you want to tackle first.


Matthew 7:28
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine
Mark 1:22
And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes

The doctrines that are being taught today are the doctrines that were taught then. Unless you want to claim that the doctrines taught by the disciples and apostles are doctrines of men. Well there goes your basis of truth.


Then the basis of your belief in empty



Your words not mine.



One more time, HAHAHA DUDE YOU REALLY THINK CANDLES ARE USED TO DRIVE OUT DEMONS.
Almighty, since you know why don't you share with us the reason they're there.

Demons are not driven out in front of a church.


I asked for proof, where is it?


I asked because you gave a non chalant attitude as to the actions of your pastor, so I asked if you don't care that means you will remain in his church learning from him even while he is doing all these things. But thanks for your answer. I am satisfied.

The difference is that they don't believe or have faith in God.


HAHAHA Dude you've been silly from the beginning and this is about you, it is about me and it is about the Church. Remember "they shall all be one, just as you and me are one?" When you decided on Christianity you joined the Church.

I have bibically addressed the issues and have used common sense but you lack both, and that's why we're still going on about it. You also lack patience, you should really ask the Spirit for that gift.


oh man I wish I had my Bible with me, I would open up the passages for you so that your eyes can be open, and you calim to read the Bible, shame on you. I will definitely come and post it up.


Since I don't know the truth, why don't you tell me?
That's what's wrong with Christians today, when someone asks a question they jump and say read on it, well maybe the person read on it and doesn't understand, isn't that when you come in and explain?
Funny the Church explains everything in great detail for anyone to understand and she's underscrutiny for it.
Those who criticise are asked to explain then, but all they do is say read.


If it offends you, YES!!!


Jesus already shed his blood and then was able to send them as the Father sent him. Look cling to the passage your clinging to and forsake the other passages in the Bible, that is entirely your own.

Since you know the truth, will you please give a "proper" interpretation of the Bible verses and stop pointing blame. Since you have knowledge share it.


I doubt you read the Bible more than I do.


Oh but you believe that verse, infact you even quoted the verse for me.
So why not explain it to me, since I lack knowledge.


Yet Timothy was given a charge and the Bible doesn't fail to highlight that. If you're going to be giving examples or qouting scripture the least you could do is understand it and back it up with explanations. Running won't do any good.
Ididn't bring up Timothy, you did to prove a point, well it has backfired on you.

What does apostle mean by the way?


Oh for real? I thought that Christ was the one who could baptise with the Spirit. Infact John the Baptist wasn't even fit to loosen his sandals.
Matthew 3:11
11"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

How then could these mere men who are not God able to baptise with the Spirit when even John the Baptist couldn't?

Maybe it's because as the Father sent Christ so Christ sent the Disciples, so the things that Christ could do the disciples could do too. As the Father charged Christ, so Christ charged the disciples.

The words you use are also used for forgiveness, we are not the givers but the vessels through which it is given.


Hehehe look yourself in the mirror.


So is this: As the Father sent me, so I send you, received the Spirit, whose sins you forgive are forgiven them and whose sins you do not forgive are not forgiven them

Biko nu, why would Christ encourage the disciples not to forgive sins when he's already said if you forgive, the Father will forgive you too, so why would he go against his own teaching here (with your interpretation, Christ goes against his own teaching)


Now imagine this coming from your own mouth about the disciples and apostles and priests today. Do you see that you sound just like a Pharisee?
If not your're in denial.


I agree


When did I quote a Pope?
When did 1Peter 3:18-20 become Popes notes?
18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

 19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,

 20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

Are you sure you're not blind?


But you're accusing the Catholics of it.
Are you sure you don't have multiple personalities, or amnesia, because you're beginning to forget what you say.


You know what you are a hypocrite. YES!!!! I AM CALLING YOU OUT. You accuse me of not answering your questions, which I have done,