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oge4real (f)
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Pertaining the replies or "denials" in this article,I am not shaken!
my question is, if Baba can submit this kind of comprehensive article then why did he register in the Open University?
All I Learnt from his epistle is Grammar,nothing but Grammar!
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klas (m)
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lol Klas,
Ok atleast you would only embezzle half of what they did. Again what makes you different from them? a lesser thief?
I dont have to embezzle or even fail to perform. Who says the lawful embedded profit margin in the contract is not a life-changing one. level go change o. Anyway let us get back to topic |
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debosky (m)
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what 'relevant' questions are they asking?
There are numerous GE turbines that have been fabricated waiting at the ports due to transportation issues and community unrest. There are materials with 16-18months lead time to manufacture which are currently being offloaded at the ports. How many of these locations were inspected? Instead, they are focusing on CONSTRUCTION Alone - which would comprise of at MOST 30% of the work to be done in total, the bulk of work done elsewhere which cannot be visualised on site is completely ignored, all in the name of demonizing the Obasanjo regime.
As a case in point, for those who are claiming that they want more information, I'll attach an rejoinder by one of the most reputable power companies worldwide - Marubeni, stating the quantum of work vis a vis what they have been paid with proof - something the House of Reps guys either neglected to report or outrightly lied about, claiming the company had received 100% payment and what not.
There have been difficulties on the way - why is it so difficult to see that? If the pipelines could not be built due to community unrest, does it mean money to construct turbines have been wasted? Does it not behoove the current government to speedily resolve these issues and let the benefits of funds spent begin to accrue to Nigerians?
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Sky Blue
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@debosky, thanks a lot for your previous post. It was insightful, but please let us not forget that this is only one company. One company out of how many? Is this what is happening accross the board? Genuine question. I mean, if i use Rivers State as another example whereby a company called Rockson Engineering was actually a tool used by Peter Odilli to siphon more money, this company came up all over the EFCC interim on Peter Odilli. Yet Obasanjo went to Rivers State to commission several plants didn't he? So what was he commisioning then and did he not know what was going on if he maintained such a close political relationship with Odilli all that time?? Someone on the forum has already reported that a generator was used during the commisioning of the much vaunted Omoku power plant. A generator? If all these problems where there at the time what was done to fix them? Let us not speak as if these problems just exploded all over Nigeria. This is not just demonising OBJ as i have no time for such. I am not anti OBJ as i don't even know him, however, i am anti corruption and anti bad governance. And i still feel that the whole thing was badly managed and people should not be shot down for enquiring into something as vital and important as this. When i refer to the people asking questions i refer to Nigerians and not the probe panel because i am yet to see anything fruitful or genuine being done as a result of any of these probes. Again, thanks for your post. Have a nice day.
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fyneguy
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Mr Debosky
much as I have some reservation as you elected to defend the contractors, I like to ask you certain questions.
Are all the project sites in Niger-delta where there's unrest?
If not, what excuses can you adduce to same fate that befell such sites?
If it would take 16-18 months to fabricate these turbines, was it not stated in the contract agreement as to the completion date?
16-18 months is less than 2 years. Do you think most of the contracts were awarded just 2 years before May 29, 2007?
For your Information, the parts that had to do with the turbines and machineries were dollar denominated. However the local work was paid in naira. Some pre-construction local works that were paid for, were not even done.
How come the NIPP which was to monitor project implementation blamed some of the contractors and ofcourse, the government for the lapses?. The NIPP claimed to have notified Obasanjo in this regard.
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debosky (m)
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@ Skyblue
the reason I mentioned this particular contractor is because they have been severally insulted and their hard work rubbished, coupled with the fact that the projects they are handling will produce 1500MW - 50% the expected total power output of ~2800MW from the NIPP alone.
Obasanjo commissioned plants in Rivers, yes - but as was clearly stated previously - inadequate transmission facilities have severely hampered power evacuation to the National Grid. I am neither holding brief for Obj or for Rivers state, but I do think we must make appropriate distinctions and treat each component matter separately. The Omoku issue, whether truly 'commissioned' or not, lies primarily at the doorstep of the Rivers State goverment - it was a state owned and funded project and not a Federal one and as such the FG/Obj cannot be held liable for whether the plant was in existence or just a facade designed to deceive.
I can also speak authoritatively on the Geregu, Omotosho and Papalanto power plants that were commissioned by the President - those plants have been completed, with full turbines, switching stations and other ancillary facilities - the main issue with those plants is GAS SUPPLY - the same issue bedeviling Egbin, now if the NGC/NNPC are having problems implementing gas supply/building pipelines, is it not reasonable to pin point that as the issue and solve it instead of making these grand stand allegations in order to whip up sentiment? The Chinese firm that handled the 3 aforementioned projects also has published details of work done and how much progress has been made, I will see if I can come up with evidence for those as well.
In my view, the largest flaw in this exercise was that the challenges for the final implementation issues - building gas pipelines, land acquisition and community unrest were severely underestimated, and have by and large led to the long delays in these projects. The problems are surmountable though, and unfortunately, Yar'adua virtually suspended work on the projects due to 'due process' since May last year, effectively stifling any further progress that could have been made in the past one year.
If their motive of inquiring or mode going about it is wrong, with a desire to misinform and distort the real situations, then they do need to be cautioned - if they succeed in criminalising genuine companies who have had a long history with power projects in Nigeria, who exactly will finish these jobs and bring the much needed succour? If they are not going to be objective about this probe, then it is a waste of time in my view - the priority should be completing existing projects as speedily as possible, not a witch hunt and aimless bandying of figures.
@ fyneguy
the NIPP was initiated and approved in December 2004 with an initial budget of $3billion dollars, giving a period of two years and 5 months, if the turbines and other facilities were ordered on the very date of initiation.
You may not have complete knowledge of the NIPP, but YES, virtually 100% of the projects are located in the Niger Delta
Where is your evidence that the 'pre-construction' work was not even done? What exactly amounts to pre-construction work? Feasibility studies? Soil Testing? Land Aquisition? What 'evidence' on site would prove to you that these had been done?
Again I am not saying everything has been done perfectly or that there are no issues - but the truth is that, for the most part, the project has been conducted as well as could be expected. The project management side was not as effective as would be desired, but going by the sensationalist reporting we are getting, NOTHING has been done.
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debosky (m)
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More evidence on some power projects. . .I leave you to make up your minds   |
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Sky Blue
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@debosky thanks. So very roughly how many of these projects are around the country and roughly how many companies are involved? And do you personally think that the money apparently spent is justified by the number of such projects and the ammount of work done? I mean since you seem to know a lot about the issue, how much power (again roughly, 2000mW, 3000mW?) is going to be added to the grid if such projects are completed?
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landis (m)
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How come same company did not provide the picture of the site with the Rep when they visited
These are just some photoshop pictures and write-up, it proves nothing.
and of what use is the plant, when supply can only server 2 out 8 turbine?
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naijaking1
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@ Skyblue
You may not have complete knowledge of the NIPP, but YES, virtually 100% of the projects are located in the Niger Delta
Ol boy why you dey lie to us? Egbema, one of the NIPP is an Oguta suburb, it's not in Niger Delta, unless Imo state is now officially in Niger Delta too. So how can you say with a straight face that 100% of the NIPP are located in the Niger Delta? It is one thing to post 'impressionable pictures' on this thread in an attempt to sway the argument in favor of OBJ and his 8-year tenure of power calamity, but it's quite another thing to thinker with the truth. Until these pictures are presented in a forum where they could be verified under oath as in the House committe, nobody should take them to be real. You may work as hard as you can as an OBJ PR firm or whatever, but please try to stick to the truth. |
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away4real (m)
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Its all so funny that mediocrity in Nigeria can be celebrated and condoned.
All ye project management experts in EPC, the questions are clear, where the so called problems anticipated or not, the youth issues and several problems being stated didn't just come up, what were the contingencies, a man with a passion to succeed allows himself no excuses, a job that needs to be done has to be done.
The bulk stops on OBJ he can't pick and choose on the success of his administration. I am a supporter of his economic reforms, the intuition was clear we have a long term plan but recognise short and medium term constraints. But again there had to be immediate success to jump start a process.
On the power project OBJ failed the criteria being the amount of funds spent vis a vis the success rate after 2 terms in government (8 years). Not what he approved, not the turbines in the port, not the transmission problems (like its not all encompassing) but simple the electricity supply being received by Nigerians in their homes.
The summary which is like most things we do is that the process was not thought true to the end, a lot of the problems were not anticipated, it has nothing to do with design but with planning and administration. If our so called engineers in the house can't see this i wonder??
@ debo useful insight and information as against those clowns in the house of rep but skyblues question is still valid, the present level of success is it comesorate with the funds spent. Its a simple investment appraisal, if its your 6.5 billion will u be a happy man now, all u are incurring is sunk cost.
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debosky (m)
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@ naijaking
For the purposes of this project, Alaoji can be classified as being in the Niger Delta it lies almost equidistant from both Aba and Port Harcourt - the issues there have been mainly that of transportation across the Imo River - the bridge spanning the river cannot carry the weight of the turbines and a special 2billion naira intervention was recently approved to enable the equipment be transported to the site, in addition to gas supply issues.
I am sticking to the truth, these projects have been verified and defended before your so called House of Reps by Sekibo with dates, approvals and facts on ground, you will not hear much about that, but rather focus on sensationalist headlines. I guess the reality is difficult for you to comprehend given the blatant falsehood you have been fed so far.
@ away4real
I would not be satisfied at all - since i cannot immediately reap rewards from my investment. But would I classify all I have spent as a waste? NO - I would get down to solving the remaining issues - pipelines, gas supply, community negotiations and complete the work, not keep parroting how the money has been wasted. I prefer a pragmatic approach focused on solving the problem, rather than an elaborate name calling session and blame trading like the House of Reps is engaging in.
the problems may have been anticipated, but not expected to drag out this long. Now if this was the issue being faced squarely instad of name calling, I would not have any issues with the House of Reps - they seem more intent on bringing down their 'enemies' than solving the situation on ground.
@ Landis
How come the company did not provide evidence? Your so called national assemblymen spent a total of 10 minutes at one of the sites - did not wait to be shown the stores of equipment or be given a tour, they were followed by the contractors who tried to explain, but were not given fair hearing. That is one of the examples we are seeing. In many other cases, projects that were still in the EP stage and had not proceeded to construction were hastily described as having collected money and done nothing - is that a true representation of the situation? No
'of what use' is the plant? The GAS INFRASTRUCTURE has not been put in place - you tell a firm to build a plant and he completes it, and someone else fails to complete the pipeline - do you now claim the contractor has embezzled money when the facilities are there in place? Why not isolate the problem and deal with it instead of blanket condemnations?
This is why I say the House of Reps are on a witch hunt exercise - why not compel the necessary bodies to ensure prompt gas supply to a plant that can immediately add 250MW capacity to the system without huge expenditure? Instead they keep harping on imaginary figures not based in reality.
@ skyblue
approximately 2,800MW would be obtained if the NIPP was completed, with another 1500 possibly coming from Geregu, Papalanto and Omotosho - of which 350MW is completed and the balance is under construction. Including the Ibom power station, that would give another 150-180MW of power, giving us in the region of 4500MW additional capacity.
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Sky Blue
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@debosky, thanks for taking out the time to explain your stand on this and for your patience. What i can say is that there is more to it than was initially insinuated and no not all the money was a waste. However was all of this worth $6.5billion? Keep in mind that the figure as OBJ has elaborated and if we are to believe him, is when you subtract overhead costs, basically things like salaries paid, etc. So that figure is mainly for materials, etc. While i still believe OBJ is very far from clean on many issues (NNPC, road contracts, etc), the money here was as it seems not a total waste and some work can be shown for this. However, the fact that facilities are under construction does that make all of them worth that ammount of money does it? Sure you can accuse the house of being sensationalist and i wouldn't argue with you. However you can't blame Nigerians if they are so quick to accept sensationalism, especially with the figures involved, the history of bad leader ship and the disgustingly high level of corruption that did go on in the last administration, can you? And when did the Niger Delta problem start? I think whatever the outcome is, leaders of the country should learn to be completely transparent and keep everyone informed.
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debosky (m)
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I am not in a position to say whether it was worth $6.5 billion or not - surely there have been wastages, some wrong decisions and definitely corruption in some aspects - as there is in the wider Nigerian economy as a whole. I don't have all the facts and figures, but from what I know to be accurate, within a year a real improvement in power can be attained if the necessary agencies get down to work.
I do not blame Nigerians for accepting the figures, I blame the press for their mostly lazy reporting - an in-depth investigation or analysis of the issues would have helped bring a balanced view of things to Nigerians. I also blame the House of Reps and other government officials who deemed it more expeditious to raise people's emotions and anger, instead of getting down to the hard task of solving the pressing issues.
There is no doubt that many mistakes and errors have occurred over the years, and that poor management and stewardship continues to be our bane as a nation, but if you need to rubbish everything and start afresh each time, we will not make progress. By all means punish any corruption or mismanagement, but also give credit where it is due.
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away4real (m)
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@ away4real
I would not be satisfied at all - since i cannot immediately reap rewards from my investment. But would I classify all I have spent as a waste? NO - I would get down to solving the remaining issues - pipelines, gas supply, community negotiations and complete the work, not keep parroting how the money has been wasted. I prefer a pragmatic approach focused on solving the problem, rather than an elaborate name calling session and blame trading like the House of Reps is engaging in.
the problems may have been anticipated, but not expected to drag out this long. Now if this was the issue being faced squarely instad of name calling, I would not have any issues with the House of Reps - they seem more intent on bringing down their 'enemies' than solving the situation on ground.
Fair enough, but the question is simple, there were serious errors made that could have been AVOIDED, and the cost is high in terms of actual funds and opportunity cost (the growth of the economy as a result of the success of the project) So now what are the lessons to be learnt and ensure it doesnt happen again and in my opinion that should be the role of the probe and not the nonsense we are observing. We should be a nation that learns and move forward. Were this errors avoidable, was it intentional, was it as a result of people not doing their job. What of the contractors are they at the stage of the project, they ought to, many questions needs to be answered. My bitterness is the arguement by some that OBJ is without blame or that he can't be held responsible. Who then should be?? The most annoying that is his defense that he is an elder and in Africa we respect elders, absolute nonsense. The same elders that are responsible for the state of the nation should be respected, what audacity coming from him. The question is simple the funds invested vis returns (actual electricity supply) is far below average. Serious questions must be asked to ensure we don't keep taking one step forward and 5 backward due to intentional or unintentional errors. |
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naijaking1
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@Debosky
If the there is power, maybe a small improvement given all the money spent so far, many people would not bother to listen to the House committee at all.
Given that the reverse is true, realistic individuals like myself cannot agree that the House committee is on a witchhunt. Sensational, self-aggrandizment, publicity seeking? I would say maybe, but let's not forget why majority Nigerians agree with House inquiry.
Like I said before, the success or failure of the House committee is not the issue at this time, lack of power is the issue. Let's not try changing the subject again.
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debosky (m)
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I do not think the two issues can be divorced given the amount of coverage and attention it has received so far.
For contractors (genuine ones) to feel the need to come out to defend themselves, there is a real danger of this thing causing more harm than good. If the House of Reps' investigation ends up worsening the situation, then it would be a case of double jeopardy.
I am not against a detailed investigation to find out what failures occurred, why they did and how to remedy them, but if the end result is further stagnation in power development in order to boost the 'political capital' of some Reps, then that is also unacceptable and will further worsen the situation on ground rather than helping.
Let us stick to facts - reeling out inflammatory statements not backed up by evidence on the ground does no one any good, except the political profiteers among us.
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Uche2nna (m)
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@Debosky
If the there is power, maybe a small improvement given all the money spent so far, many people would not bother to listen to the House committee at all.
Given that the reverse is true, realistic individuals like myself cannot agree that the House committee is on a witchhunt. Sensational, self-aggrandizment, publicity seeking? I would say maybe, but let's not forget why majority Nigerians agree with House inquiry.
Like I said before, the success or failure of the House committee is not the issue at this time, lack of power is the issue. Let's not try changing the subject again.
I wonder why this is so hard to see. I have said it before , we can go ahead and make very grandiose arguments in favour of Obj but none of those arguments have answered any of Skyblue's question. And I think those are the questions that should be on the lips of every meaningful Nigerians. If U are the owner of a company and U disbursed a huge sum of money at some point in time , U would want to hear how that money was actually spent. Thats the question that Skyblue is trying to ask here but instead of getting answers he is getting insults  |
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edmou
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The man is just an old bag of dissappointment
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naijaking1
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I do not think the two issues can be divorced given the amount of coverage and attention it has received so far.
For contractors (genuine ones) to feel the need to come out to defend themselves, there is a real danger of this thing causing more harm than good. If the House of Reps' investigation ends up worsening the situation, then it would be a case of double jeopardy.
I am not against a detailed investigation to find out what failures occurred, why they did and how to remedy them, but if the end result is further stagnation in power development in order to boost the 'political capital' of some Reps, then that is also unacceptable and will further worsen the situation on ground rather than helping.
Let us stick to facts - reeling out inflammatory statements not backed up by evidence on the ground does no one any good, except the political profiteers among us.
How does the activity of the house committe hearing cause a stagnation of the nation's power supply? Did they stop the engineers of the various contracting firms from generating power? No, and No! Watching/listening/reading the reports of the committee is not inflammatory, inflammatory would be doing nothing after we paid more than $16billion for power and got nothing in return. Has anybody asked Iyabo what she had to do with our national power supply? So as you display pictures purported to be those of Marubeni activity in Nigeria, please show us the pictures of Iyabo's Austrian power supply company too. |
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Kobojunkie
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I wonder why this is so hard to see. I have said it before , we can go ahead and make very grandiose arguments in favour of Obj but none of those arguments have answered any of Skyblue's question. And I think those are the questions that should be on the lips of every meaningful Nigerians. If You are the owner of a company and You disbursed a huge sum of money at some point in time , You would want to hear how that money was actually spent. Thats the question that Skyblue is trying to ask here but instead of getting answers he is getting insults I would not go as far as to say insults is what he is getting but I do understand what you mean and I do agree, the questuions are not being answered. I am not of the mind that OBJ did absolutely nothing or let all that money disappear, leaving us nothing to work with. Infact, compared to those before him, and the one after him, I believe he tried to do quite a lot, problem is a lot did go wrong as well and so the probe is needed. But I would rather we focus on what the present is doing rather than continuing to focus on the past with no move forward. Reading one of the posts above, I understand that some of the plants are in need of gas to start running. What is the current man doing to solve this problem?? |
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debosky (m)
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If the House freezes the work on the project due to their witch hunt and cancel contracts, how won't that stagnate issues? If it ties up work endlessly due to their activities, it may lead to more harm than good.
You've gone back to the $16 billion issue - an unsubstantiated claim. What does Iyabo have to do with what we are talking about? That contract was cancelled - a separate matter from the issue at hand.
back to the 'got nothing in return' claims are we? I leave you to your opinions, however warped they may be.
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naijaking1
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You and me know that the executive arm of our govt. is the Presidency. So, how can the legislatures "tie up the work endlessly?"
True, the House may order the contractors to appear before it, but I don't see how that will force the engineers, technicians, or laborers in the field to stop working too.
By the last time I checked, the House does not award contracts on federal projects, freeze work on federal projects, or even cancel contracts-- the executive arm of the government, ie ministries, parastatals, and the Presidency do.
Apart from its budgetry allocation powers for the future, I don't see how the House activity of asking questions would impede our power supply. These questions simply threaten the sacred cows getting fat by corruption, their questions have a potential to open the cankerworm of corruption in our midst, so I don't see why a few powerful individuals should be against it.
If these percieve activities are what you describe as witch-hunt, then it's obvious that your conclusion is based on a false premise, and cannot stand.
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debosky (m)
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If money is not appropriated for projects they will be frozen, if the contractors feel they have been unfairly treated, they may pull out of the contracts, leaving us to renegotiate the contracts again, re-tender, re-pre-qualify and all those steps all again. All these take time and may stagnate projects.
I do not see any powerful individuals stopping them from their investigations - if they can ask the president to appear and he sends a 5,000 word reply stating his own piece, who will fail to respond to them then?
What irks me is that they release sensationalist information which turns out not to be true, but never recant when it is proven untrue, leaving only the false impression in people's minds. Case in point - it was widely circulated that 34 or so companies given contracts were never registered, right now all those companies registration details have been found as accurate and in good order, have you heard this splashed across the front pages? No. Numerous other examples exist.
Deliberate misinformation and complete lack of understanding of the operational modes of these projects is tarnishing this 'probe' and making it appear to be one set out to achieve cheap political gain, not solve any problems. I do agree we all have a right to know, but it needs to be done properly without undue playing to the gallery.
What information did Bankole have to declare $16 billion or the other figures being bandied around? The man in charge himself has said it is $ 6.5 billion - now you may think there is no difference between the two, but if we are trying to determine what went wrong, let us at least work with figures based on reality, not on their shock value
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naijaking1
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Holding inquiries about the nations poor power supply does not equal to treating our contractors unfairly, so if they pull out just because someone was asking them questions, legitimate question for that matter, then I would say they were not ready to work in the first place.
I agree that their image maybe tarnished or polished depending on what sort of job they do, ie how they honor their contractual obligations.
The beauty of open democracy is that everything comes out to the open eventually, you should always be wary of anybody or anything that insists on secrecy for the mere excuse that they do not want to "sensetionalize" an issue. The House committee did not sensetionalize any false report, the truth was that someone reported and quoted those figures to the house committee, and since its an open committee hearing it was carried and quoted life!
Once again, here's the beauty of the system: claims and counter-claims, then the committee gathers all information, votes on issues and then writes a majority and possibly a minority report. Until the committe has written their report there is no good reason for any advocate of true democracy to criticize them.
Some of the claims and counter-claims coming to the committee would undoubtably be false, but then the people have an opportunity to hear from both sides.
A good example is the FCT committee that was busy deposing witness who alleged that the former minister el Rufai gave plots to himself and OBJ, only for the minister t counter that the committee chairman himself got many plots. So now we as Nigerians are in a better position to know the truth.
A true democrat never stops the free low of information, no matter whose ox is gored.
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engineerd (m)
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All the corrupt leaders in Nigeria have a special place in hell waiting for them. I curse them with all the blood of the suffering common man that has no access to water, good roads, education, employment. As they continue to steal Nigeria's money, may their special reservation in hell continue to get hotter and hotter. Amen!
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doncaster (m)
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All the corrupt leaders in Nigeria have a special place in hell waiting for them. I curse them with all the blood of the suffering common man that has no access to water, good roads, education, employment. As they continue to steal Nigeria's money, may their special reservation in hell continue to get hotter and hotter. Amen!
Amen !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 |
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landis (m)
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His words: "The panel on the on-going power probe is going round the country. I don't know if anybody took them to the Mambilla Power Project. I am sure they didn't go to Mambilla, because if they go, nobody can show them where the dam is supposed to be sited. Even the physical location of the dam has not been agreed on, which means there was no design, nothing. Yet, before the last President left, a contract was signed.'' Finance Minister in Angola. OBJ belong to prison! |
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Afam (m)
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@debosky,
Well done. This is what I call free education and in all honesty the majority of people that have benefited from it don't deserve it.
Let the show of ignorance and total lack of comprehension of basic issues continue, I guess the forum is big enough to allow us show the world how we reason.
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Backslider (m)
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God Bless You ONO
My Fear is not OBJ going to jail but we are destroying the presidency which is the Prime factor of the state of Nigeria.
You will be suprised when Yaradua Leaves what will happen and nobody will be there defend him. We must complete this power project.
I am pleading with the senate let the contracts be completed. Jail everyone including Obj if you have to, but let the project continue.
Please I plead with you.
You can see what the political Elite are trying to do?
You can see that they want to make sure that the contracts are reissued so that they can set up companies and award it to them self.
Well God save the President
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sandstorm
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My Fear is not OBJ going to jail but we are destroying the presidency which is the Prime factor of the state of Nigeria.
You will be suprised when Yaradua Leaves what will happen and nobody will be there defend him. We must complete this power project.
I am pleading with the senate let the contracts be completed. Jail everyone including Obj if you have to, but let the project continue.
Please I plead with you.
You can see what the political Elite are trying to do?
You can see that they want to make sure that the contracts are reissued so that they can set up companies and award it to them self.
Well God save the President good |
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