Is Fornication Really A Sin?

@lady
Just becos i don't accept a doctrine that as been presented as the word of God does not mean i am not a true believer, even though the bible is a spiritual book it was written for the understanding of Man and not in parables Numbers 12 : 8, when you have to depend on another man be it pastor or what ever, you risk that person foistering his opinion/ doctrine on you and him telling you it is the word of God. Anything that can not be substantiated in the bible is not acceptable by me and i would also not accept manipulative interpretations that is why i have three versions of the bible so to help me understand what the scriptures say better. The truth is that there is more human doctrine in the church today than the true word of God. As for spirituality, my spirit tells me in very clear terms that the church as led us astray, even then i am a very strong bible believing christian. I just try to seperate God's word from Man's doctrine presented as the word of God.

we need mature posting here please - so now having sex is sin?

Back to Jagoon

I hear you loud and clear on Leviticus 18, but do you regard the passage to be the exhaustive list/description of sexual immorality/sins?

Note it does not mention sex with prostitutes, nor sexual orgies which are condemned in other portions of scripture. Is it possible that your premise of basing interpretations of Paul's letter on this ONE passage is wrong? That this one passage does not cover ALL forms of sexual sin?

This is the first sensible and logical response iam getting on this thread. You see the topic of this post is a question, not a statement and it is seeking sound logical bible based answers not preconceived opinions. I quite agree with you debosky that it did not mention sex with prostitues and sexual orgies which are obviously immoral, maybe these were overlooked. But the issue of pre-marital sex which is obviuosly the most common sexual practise could not have been over looked. It was omitted probably because it was not considered as a sexual sin.

Finally i am getting sensible responses , Yes lafile you are right. and to your question even though you quoted from the King's james version whose accuracy of translation is underdebate in this post the same passage in the good news bible is stated as thus "But becuase there is so much immorality, every man should have his own wife and every woman her own husband" and the Amplified version which is the best meaning for meaning translation puts it this way "2But because of the temptation to impurity and to avoid immorality, let each [man] have his own wife and let each [woman] have her own husband.
      This statement could be interpreted in various ways, firstly paul was addressing this letter to the people of corinth who at that time engage in all sorts of immoral sexual practises, in 1 corinthians 5: 1 paul even gives an example of the Sexual Immorality he was talking about he said: 1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. this is a very good example of what refered to as immorality. So that passage you quoted could actully mean " instead of sleeping with other people's wives or commiting other sexual immoralities  as having multiple sexual partners, go and marry a wife so that all your sexual desires can be met."

Nice one there Lafile. Now let's see how Jagoon can counter this.

Jagoon,

ha,  wow ok. i've read through almost the entire thread,  i did skip over the comments that as you took notice to did nooot really answer the question thoroughly.
hmm,  lets see where do i start,  ok here. 1. i have the same question as you. interpretation and translation is a tricky thing. So you using different versions of the Bible i admire. Personally i use a dictionary and look up alternative meanings and such( i have yet to buy other versions of the bible,  which iiis helpful but doesn't always solve the problem.

I want to state i understand what you were saying about Leviticus,  that passage focused on the immorality of  having sexual relations with close relatives,  or animals,  oooor,  the same sex. thats what i got out of it.
I have also read very often about adultery  and understand that is in fact a command to not commit it. ( of course the meaning of that word can be debated but that is not the case at hand so i'll avoid that haha)

So there are two examples of when in the Bible some action ( regarding sex ) is clearly said to not be done.  The list of sexual immoralites in Leviticus and then the simple commandment ( of The Ten Commandments ) not to commit adultery.

The ENTIRE  Bible is filled with ,  I can confidently say ,  at LEAST  "Good Advice".  Even if the Ten Commandments themselves never truely came  directly from God and were infact nothing more than the suggestions of a man,  it does not change the fact that it is GOOD ADVICE.  The reason it IS  good advice  and the bible states this itself,  somethign along the lines of it will be health to your flesh and add years to your life, ?? Is just that,  It is GOOD FOR YOU PHYSICALLY  first of all. and Secondly it is good for you emotionally. So many things , rules i guess you could call them are given or suggestions ,  they are all stated in one way or another in the bible and each was created  to keep us safe. Example inthe old testiment it mentions eating any bird except those that are scavengers,  makes sense right? It doesn't mean you WILL DEFINETLY  get sick and die if you eat the wrong type of bird,  but you COULD!,  So when it comes to rules,  suggestions,  commandments,  they are all written for our own good. To hopefully guide us in a safe direction.
Now you may be thinking,  "I understand that." Good i didn't think you wouldn't , 

God speaks to us in many different  ways. Sometimes its super natural- for example Moses and the burning bush,  or when he went to the top of the mountain and was given the Ten Commandments. Sometimes its very simple and quiet,  for example the unshakable peace a person can feel when following through with an act that they feel is acceptable and good in the Lords eyes.  If God spoke to Moses and gave him the Ten commandments some basic ideas  to follow to keep us in good condition through out our lives,   And then spoke to the heart of Paul who wrote 1 Corinthians chap 7,  Who are we to pick and choose from the advice given,  which we definetly MUST  follow and that of which we must not,  simply based on whether or not it was given through super natural phenomenon vs wisdom given to a man( who dedicates his life to Christ and therefore Christs purposes. ) 

i know i rambled alot but my point is this,  just because something is not a direct COMMANDMENT given supernaturally to a man from God does not mean that the advice given ( although simply ADVICE,  A SUGGESTION, liiiike 1 corinth. 1 AND 6,  ) is not FROM GOD, 


I believe that all that is in the Bible is equal,  just because one is proclaimed a Commandment does not make it anymore important that a piece of advice that is not. And vice versa,  Just because something is NOT proclaimed a commandment does not make it any LESS  important than the then commandments themselves.
God gave us the ENTIRE  bible for a reason,  all the bits and pieces add up ,  and each piece of advice is for our own good ,
i can speak from experience, 
I had sex with my boyfriend of almost 4 years,  we were in love it all seemed very good.
we were young also
doubts entered his mind,
he wasn't there for me anymore, 
we both went through alot of heartache,
i ended up having sex with another person
from that one person i tested positive for an std
and after that,  there were many other lessons learned and difficult things to go through.  but thatis not as important to the story as the few things i just told you about myself.
Even if you love a person and you think you want to marry them,  and maybe even make plans to marry them,  and although it will not KILL you to have sex with them before you are married,  i believe God has made sure to tell us in many different ways in the past and in the present that it is better for you to wait,
For many reasons,  i'm sure you can make a list,

ps in the old testiment God had to do things in  a supernatural way,  but the new testiment Corinthians for example the Holy Spirit had entered the hearts of men,  because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross,  thats what God had left behind for us instead of Jesus in his physical body,  now we have The Spirit,  I believe thats what Paul had,  and why he wrote the things he did, 

well,  i know thats alot,  and i hope i made some sense, 
these are the things i think about when i begin to question  sex before marriage, 

its even more confusing for me becuase now i'm no longer a virgin ,  but i still want to follow Gods laws for me,  does it matter,  i think so because Jesus says in John 8 :11 Neither do i condemn you ; go and sin no more. pretty simple. and of course that leads me to the same question you had,  is sex with the person you love a sin outside of marraige if you love them,  and lets say they are your only one, 
I think it's safe to assume so, 
God created us with amazing minds that can solve puzzles,  i belive he expects us to use our minds when reading the bible and not be so concerned with if things are spelled out simply but  TRUST, those who have heard from his spirit,   LISTEN,   for his voice in our own lives and use our logic and common sense to make WISE  decisions, 
If you understand all this and  do all of that  ( trusting and listening  etc,  ) and still think it is wise to have sex with someone you love even though you are not married ( committed for LIIIIFE  ,  haha) ,  i have nothing else to say, 

eh,  good luck
- Abby

What is sin? We ARE at a higher position of morality than the God of the Bible. If those actions in the old testament are indeed more moral, then we should be fine with racism, genocide, slavery, etc. Oh wait, Jesus (God) said that we should love our neighbor as ourselves and the commandment to not kill is clearly written. The bibleGod is not only immoral, he is a hypocrite. 

@abbz57
Thanx for your detailed response however you have not been able to establish biblically that fornication is a sin or that there was any express commandment against it, how ever i do appreciate the moral angle you gave to it about the dangers and senselessness of having indiscriminate sex. My problem is i am actually sick of people especially pastors forcing their own opinions and biases into the bible and presenting it as the word of God. i discovered that when subjected to scrutinity a lot of things we assume are true and that are in the bible have been wrongly translated / presented to us. Another case in point is the definition of Adultery which you shied away from stating. If you lay your hands on a bible concordance which defines and explains the words used in the bible from the original greek and hebrew words thay were written in, you would discover that the Adultery refered to married women who had extramarital sex. A man could only be deemed to commit adultery if he was involed with a married woman. If a married man had sex with a non married woman, it was not considered as adultery as such married men were free to have extra marital affairs and more than one wife. The definition of adultery which the church adopted today is the english translation which does not precisely express the ancient hebrew/ greek terms used