The Trinity? Help Me

@Troynow:
This therefore applies to every man, the natural man on earth. You me and everyone, including Jesus, etc. You will see that your hypothesis is sporous at best. definitely poor and unreliable. For if you have a physical body, you are not spiritual being at that time. A proof of it is that when the andels appeared in human forms, they are not known as angels, but humans, until they say we are messenger of god. Even the angels say that they are messengers. How much less of Jesus, a man born of a woman!


Then why did God say that God is not the author of confusion. And also said that one should prove everything and hold what is true, if there is no human and common sense in play at all on the Bible?

I bet that if the bible writers were working with the spirit of God, there would not be so many versions of the Bible. My proof is simple, which one of the two, The Catholic Douwy Version with 6 or 7  more Books than the Protestants, eg King james version of the Bible did the spirit of God write? If its the Douwy, then the spirit did not have anything to do with the protestants version. If its the protestants, we should ask what spirit wrote the Catholics in the first place which the protestants copied less the 6 or 7 Books? Shall we then say that the spirit that wrote the Protestants Version, is the new and improved spirit? Man, you have a lot of explanations to make.


I am not as gullible as you. Yet I believe in God, the One single Creator. I can think.


The lot above is hogwash. But I must ask you what is in and out of season for Christian, as you have stated above? In season is what and out of season is what? I want to take you through the hoop if you write jargon as a response to me.

If all the fault that yiu alluded to Jesus body is not enough to make you realize that he is not God, no way no how, then, your heart is dead. Is there not an opprtunity for him in all those times to say to his audiences, look am God to you, but am just acting as in flesh right now, even though I am your Creator? But instead we read in many Biblical verses whereby he made it clear that he Jesus is nothing but a tool of God to his audience in order that they may work in the path of guidance. Is that not the same that Moses served to the Children of Israel? Was Muhammad less than that to all mankind? Did Muhammad not invite all the leaders of the powerful civilizations of his time and had from among his followers, during his very lifetime people from Europe, Asia, Africa, Arabs, male and female, young and old and free and slaves and wealthy as well as poor?

Tell me a prophet before him that had people from outside his own people? Tell me the prophet who had the boldness to invite leaders of the world to joun his movement while that same movement was weak militarily and at infancy? Did Jesus not have the opportunity to invite the roman ruler of his day, during his trial? Did he invite him? Now read about the companions of Muhammad, when they were in Ethiopia seeking the protection of the just Christian king. The makkan pagans pursued them to Ethiopia and told the king that they considered Jesus only as a human prophet while you considered him as your god and savior.

The Muslims answered the King directly after they have praised God and told the king of the character of the prophet of God, Muhammad. Then they read Chapter titled Mariam in the Qur'an. The king wept and declared his Islam from Christianity. It was in his journey to Makka to meet the prophet that this king died on the way. Give me a Biblical support of Jesus being anything other than Prophet of God. I will give you, two verses of the Bible supporting the opposite view. I want verses from Jesus directly, and not the concorted parts after he had left. Nothing from Acts and after it. (NOte: I do not trust the gimmick of Paul).

See this is why I say you don't understand the concept of the Trinity. You think that it was introduced after the death of Jesus.



I can't believe you even suggested I try to find the word Trinity in the Bible. You should know better now. Use that with the Protestants, not the Catholics.
But the concept of Trinity is in the Bible.

Like I said I will show you passages in the Bible, but if you understand the concept and true essence of Trinity you will see that the passages you wish to quote for me doesn't contradict the Trinity concept.
But I did say it will be a long write up.

I have to go pray now and study. I have three exams next week, two of them on monday, so no fun for me this weekend.
But I will start the write up next week. I was reading the catechism this morning and I was directed to the Trinity, but particularly the profession of the Christian faith.
I think I'll write that up for you, so that you may see the full picture of it. But it will be full of passages, and even those you wish to cite for me.

Happy 4th of July. Nothing happens in Tally, it's always so boring. Can't wait to move to the big city.

@Troynow



Point of correction, Jesus can never save me because he couldnt save himself but had to cry and begged the one that could save him from death.

Muslims already have Jesus and follow his teachings and not the cooked up story from those that never saw him and contradicted themselves. Jesus was never a christian but a muslim. So the ball is in your court before its too late.

I'll be Jessie James/Josie Whales. Davidylan is a sinner, too? I thought you are a son of god? How can son of god sin? I thought Jesus blood, etc, immunes you from sinning?

After these two protection devices, you still sin, you are definitely not son of God and Jesus blood immunization is not real. From your seclaration that you are a sinner, I can clearly see that you have been fooling me all along. Its therefore a good thing I did not fall for your hokeydoke.

THE ONLY FATHER

Deu 6:4   "Hear, O Yisrayl: YAHAWAH our FATHER, YAHAWAH is ONE!

Zec 14:9 And YAHAWAH shall be KING over all the earth. In that day it shall be—YHWH is ONE," And HIS NAME ONE

THE ONLY CREATOR

Psa 96:5 For all the Gods(elohiym) of the peoples are idols, But YAHAWAH made the heavens. 

Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man on it. My hands--stretched out the heavens,
And all their host I have commanded. 

Psa 95:3 For YHWH is the Great Creator, and THE GREAT KING above all Gods.(Elohiym)

Isa 45:18 This is what YHWH says, Who created the heavens, The Creator, Who formed the

earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be
inhabited: "I AM YAHAWAH, and THERE IS NO OTHER’’.

Isa 48:13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched
out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together

Yer 51:15 HE has made the earth by HIS POWER; HE has established the world by HIS
WISDOM, and stretched out the heaven by HIS UNDERSTANDING.


THE ONLY SAVIOR

Isa 43:11   I, even I, am YHWH, and besides ME there is no savior. (so much for Jesus a.k.a
Yahshua Messiah)

Isa 43:12   I have declared and saved, I have proclaimed, and there was no strange God (el)
among you; Therefore you are My witnesses,” "that I am YAHAWAH.

Isa 45:21 Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared
this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, YHWH? And there is no
other source of power besides Me, A Just Father and a SAVIOR; There is none besides ME. 

Yer 14:8 O the Hope of Yisrayl, his Savior in time of trouble, Why should you be like a stranger
in the land, And like a traveler who turns aside to tarry for a night? 

Hsa 13:4 "Yet I am YHWH your Father ever since the land of Egypt, and you will acknowledge
no power or authority but ME; For there is no savior besides ME. ( so much for Jesus Christ a.k.a
Ea Zeus the healer, Iesous, Iesus, Yeshua, Yahsua, Yehoshuah etc)

One LAW

Exd 12:49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Num 15:16 One law and one custom shall be for you and for the stranger who dwells with you.

Num 15:29 You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, [for] him who is native-born
among the children of Yisrayl and for the stranger who dwells among them.

Ecc 12:13    Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Reverence YHWH and
keep HIS INSTRUCTION, for this is the whole duty of man.

I hope these scriptures answer your question YHWH IS ONE, Fire burn all trinitarian falsehoods!!!!

don't reply until i say i am done.
If you do I will completely ignore you.

Am making my own analysis, without distrupting the on going conversation with other people.

Trinity simply means 3 entities. This is different from Unity, as in Unity Theory, a mathematically problem solved by Dr. Oyinbo. A Nigerian from Bendel state, on Long Island New York State. Unity means bringing to One. That is not Trinity which is 3 entities or derivative of it.




As the word embodies the entity that speaks the word, it however does not makes the word that speaker, or in true sense of manifestation makes the speaker the word. What the word does is simply the embodiment of what the speaker intends. For example, when a parent leaves words for the children. It is the instructions to the children. They are to follow it as it represents the parent. But the parent is not the word.




Please let us apply the same facts about the word and the creations of heaven and earth to the creation of Jesus as well. Otherwise, we have to be consistent on the matters of Jesus and the word on one hand and the heaven and earth and th word on the other. Jesus was a command as heaven and earth was just commandment from God, by His word which make them come to existence as He willed in the commandments. Please continue to read your own writing. Remember that you have just continued to talk about God and Jesus, wherebt the spirit/holy spirit/holy ghost is just completely ignored.




Just the same way that the heaven and earth are God's word made physical. Interestingly, There were example of harder human creations before esus was created. Each one of them is a new creation: Adam, a man created from admixture of water and soil, but no father and no mother. Eve was creaed a woman, without a mother, if Adam was taken as her father, because of the piece of material she was created from came from his body. These two people, slept with each other to produce male and female children, the first time sex was involved in creation. The children, brothers and sisters married each other to produce another generation of people. The cousins now married each other, to produce another generation, whereby the population is now exploding and agreater gene pool is now being experience. Interestingly, Jesus did not come to existence afterall of these and after humans were wiped out to a just handful in the Flood that occurred during the prophetic period of Noah.





You then are obligated to tell us why the word became  physical in the case of heaven and earth?





Could you tell us when man was never separated from God? In other words, was there a time from Adam, onward that  man and god are never separated? If there is no time then the concept of sin separating man from God will be wrong.





From your own statement we see that Mary herself is freed from sin. This simply means she was not created with the ability to sin, or prevented from sinning or whenever she sinned, she was immediately forgiven as it was never recorded for her. If this is the case, then, you have more than one person on the earth who did not sin. If the craterion of being "GOD," on earth is simply being sinless, as you have said that God is in heaven, since you said that he had to come on earth, in the person of Jesus, then we would assume that Mary was also God.

Bt wait, who decides what is sin or sinfulness? The one who decides, in this case god, will out to be above it. Anything that He deemed sinful, will have to be by His authority, alone, after He has warned against it. You can not be guilty about something unless there is a standing statement to indicate it as such. In other words, if thiefery was not a thing already considerd as sinful, w2ho ever took things that belong to othrs and not their own, would not have been considered to have committed thiefery!




If Jesus is all of this to man, becaues he is God's word to man, then the heaven and earth will have to be the same to the galaxies and the planetary systems, known and yet unknown! Thats even harder, since Jesus deals with just humans, male and female, while the heaven and earth deal with many more and complex creations. Now, what is playing the same role for the animals as Jesus is for  man and heaven and earth are for the planetary things? Give me what is playing that role for the many flesh eating animals, eg Lion, Tiger, Leper, Cheatter, Hyienna, etc?





Yet we still have loads of people who commit sins. Let just concentrate on the Christians, alone, being the single group that believe this roke you are saying that Jesus played.





But God allow the sinner, eg those who do not believe that he exists to eat, healthy, etc. Some of these peple are the most wealthy people on earth. Bill Gates is a very good example. I do not want to even talk about the hindus etc. God can look on sins. How else are sins recorded into the book of deeds which wll be read out in the day of Judgement?





Are you saying that Adam and his wife, Eve were not forgiven, as it is recorded that they were inspired to seek forgiveness from God, immediately, as they arrived on earth? If this is not the case, are you then saying that their fate is the same as the fate of the evil one who incited them to the evil that occurred in the garden?  If this is the case, then what is the fate of those who came before Jesus was born and then began his ministry, by which you gave him the title of the one who overtuned the sinfulness of all after him and reconcile man to God? What about Noah who by his prayer, the human raise was wiped out to a feww people who were saved with him in his vessel, because they believed his message?





If a person steps on an insect, knowingly or knowingly, is one of the situation not sinful? If a person cut down a cherry tree, or set fire to a tree so that the tree dies, depriving animals from making nexts and homes on it, depriving man from its shade from excruciating sun rays and the head of the afternoon, or the beauty of its lushness of uts green leaves and beautiful flowers and the fragrances of its petals and nectars, will any of these be considered as sin? How many sins do we knowingly or unknowingly commit, daily?

I remember your argument with me that just merely the single passing thought of sexual relationship out of marriage, is sinful. That was just a thought that flashed through the mind and it was dismissed, immediately. Can anyone meet this sinless conditions that you had set, while he is fully engaged in life struggle and interracting with varied peoples? Please consider answering each and every idea about sin that i set forward for you to answer. If you can, but if not, its okay, too.





I hope you are not saying that human head and each parts of human, is like that of God's? That will destroy your believe that God is a spirit, wouldn't it? The without sin will have to be explained further. Let me try to undersatnd you; Are you saying that When Adam and his wife were created they were sinless, and the disobedience was their first sin, right? If this is so again were they forgiven, ever, hence having the good grace of God's forgiveness? If this is no, how were people forgiven before Jesus came on earth? Interestingly, Jesus did not introduce any new word for which people to seek forgiveness, other than what the people before him used to use; realising their mistakes, being contrived and seeking forgiveness from God, alone.

If Adam and Eve were created sinless, are not children created sinless as they were just born out of the mother's womb? Will a newly born baby who dies after birth be considered sinful or sinless? Say the first minute of life, without even a chance to suckle from mother?




But ironically, Christians who truly believes in Jesus can do all that you mentioned still die! Tell me, wasn't John paul that was buried in 2004, with his fet buried some where different from other parts of his body?  Did any of those who followed Jesus as his companions not die? Did paul who developed the Christian doctrines not dead, yet?




My darling, tell me one single person who has reached this very stage or level? I am not even giving you my opinion about Jesus? I am also of the opinion that everyone, those who believe with you or we who do not believe your concept above will be ressurrected. Thats how judgement will be pronounced. I want to hear about a sinless christian, in the maintime!




PLease tell me how he tell you to behave to your husband? Him and no one else? Tell me how he tell you to distribute your wealth, or the wealth of deceased? Tell me how he tells you to purify yourself after sexual intercourse with your partner, etc? Tell me how he tells you to lay down to sleep? Tell how he tell you to make prayer to him, or God?





Efeosa! Oh girl. This one pass me o! Now explain how "My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?!," came about? If doing the will is so important why trying to refuse it and prayed against it in the prayers at the Garden of Geshemine? I did not read "Father," here but "God!" Go figure.





You are telling me that the Christian God does not forgive. Well, people in the christendom, it seems as if you have been praying for forgiveness for nothing. The reason is that your God does not accept repentance and so He does not forgive.



Omo girl, how was the test(s)? I wish you well.

Robert Ingersoll makes the following comments in Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 4, p. 266-67:

Here is the dilemma. Christians know that in order for Jesus to be the savior of mankind, he must also be God. The bible says so. If he is not God, then he cannot be the savior. His death would be meaningless. So Christians have invented the Trinity to explain Christ's divinity. He is man. He is God. He is both. He must be in order to be the savior. Unfortunately, he is ambivalent at best. Sometimes he claims to be one with God. Sometimes he admits God knows things which he doesn't know and does things which he cannot do. Christians go to nearly any length to prove the Trinity including the declaration that its a "mystery" and we "just don't have the mind to understand it". Is the bible the perfect, inerrant word of God? The Christian created Trinity doctrine and the contradictions which must accompany the doctrine sound a resounding "No"! So how did the Trinity doctrine/dogma come into existence?

The origins of the Trinity doctrine are appalling. Like most historic issues pertaining to Christianity, there was much deceit and bloodshed. Many lives were lost before 'Trinitarianism' was finally adopted.

As many Christians know, the word "trinity" does not appear in the Bible. It doesn't because it is a doctrine which evolved in early Christianity. It was a manipulated, bloody and deadly process before it finally arrived as an 'accepted' doctrine of the church.

OTHER TRINITIES
.
Hinduism embraced the triune godhead of Brahma, the god of creation ; Vishnu the god of maintenance and Siva the god of destruction. One of Egypt's many trinities was Horus, Isis and Osiris.

The founders of the early Christian church had no idea that the Trinity concept would evolve, be voted upon by politicians, forced by emperors and eventually become an integral part of Christianity such as we have it today. Is it any wonder that its "difficult" to explain?

Is there one Christian God or Three In One? The majority of Christian churches hold to the Trinity doctrine but there are still Christian church holdouts who reject the teaching. We now enjoy the freedom to believe either doctrine but at risk of ridicule if we choose non-Trinitarian beliefs.

Just like at Burger King, "you can have it your way".


Robert Ingersoll makes the following comments in Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 4, p. 266-67

Now Olabowale, allow me to finish before you comment and read through everything first so that you wont ask questions to something I already gave an answer to.

Babs787

Thanks for respecting my wish, unlike Olabowale

When the bible says jesus is standing on the right hand of God, it means that the authority, power and judgement of God is now utilized by Jesus. He is not literaly standing close to another person cald God. The doctrine of trinity is not found in the scriptures. The Godhead is not made of three persons in one. God is not a person, He is a spirit. God the father is also God the son, and also God the holyspirit in three offices. Jesus is the manifestation of God in a physical body to die 4 man's sins (col 2:9). Jesus is not another God in unity with two other Gods. He is the same God the father manifested in flesh form (john 14 :9). God is one not three. Shalom

olabowale may GOd hav mercy o
please i want 2 ask a quetion are u a muslim?

because in d creation d TRINITY was seen at work
even in d makin of man the 3 was present.
u read Genesis 1-3
if u want

@14:9 ', if you see me you see the Father". Col 2:9 says that in Christ dwells the fulness( all of God) of God bodily (in a body form). Col1:15 says that He Christ is the image of the invisible God (Jehova). Jesus cried out to the Father- This is what it means. The flesh Called Jesus Christ was crying out to the Spirit (Jehova) that was dwelling in that flesh. Period.
That was why after Christ's baptism, God spoke from heaven saying "This is my beloved son IN WHOM i'm well pleased".

Haba! Is this MISUNDERSTANDING or CONTRADICTION?, please look for a Bible Scholar to make the gosple clear to you. along with its interpretations, if your pas,  or You can't.     

maureen, please there's no need to go on an insult. Thanks. Olabowale should be respected despite his religious beliefs. Christians are called to love everyone not just Christians. Christians are called to accept everyone. That is what Christ did, please walk in his footsteps.

Udyro
Quoting the Bible for them won't prove anything to them. To them what you are quoting is what they view as corrupt. Why would they hold something corrupt to be true?

Explaining it and helping them understand what the belief is, is the way to go.

I hope after I am done, they will understand better. Maybe they won't ask questions about what Christians don't believe, but rather what we do believe and get to see it from our view, and not the carnal view in which they use to view and understand the Bible

Dont woryy, let her finish and we would go into her write up.

Anyway. I traveled only to return to find out that my internet connection is caput 

I have to access the internet on campus. I am not always on campus.
So you can go ahead and comment on what it is I have written so far.
But please comment on what I wrote, ask questions on what I wrote and not add in your own beliefs. Thanks. Olabowale did a good job of adding in his own belief.

You can't explain or understand the Bible based on the Quran. Don't ask me questions that do not deal with the Christian faith. Thanks. If you do, I will ignore you. If you notice that I am ignoring you then go back and comment on Christianity not what you believe it to be or what Islam has taught you.

Thanks.

I will do my best to make it on campus until my internet is fixed. Which at that time I will continue to add to my write up, but at this time it seems I am unable to add to it.

@Olabowale!

Just a question for you,Are you the anti-Christ?I have observed the tenacity with which you tackle christian beliefs!I believe in God the father,the son and the Holy Spirit.Three in one and jsut as I am a body with a soul and a spirit,the concept of the trinity is easy to understand but its your choice what you choose to believe,But the way you go about it is what am yet to get sir!I sure hope you are not the antichrist ooooo !Abi you don't understand that one tooo?

@Ty4real:

You make me laugh. I have not heard that antiChrist will be a black african, Yoruba man from Nigeria, in New York City. And InshaAllah my next permanent residenc will be in Nigeria. Am still debating where though, since I love the water so much. Anyone have a good suggestion for me. I need over 2 miles square of space, to do horse racing and stable, with a little bit of car race course.

Muslim can never be an antiChrist. You and I are certain about it. Just becauseI am asking you to explain Mark 12 Verse 29 in the light o