The Trinity? Help Me

@~Lady~:

How am I lying? I remember quite well, where I was when we had that conversation. It was Saturday night and i was in the kitchen making me a hot joe. Just because you had people with you, they did not her my statement, so they could not be a good witness for you, if you wished them so. Afterall, you did not put me on speaker phone. Finally, you were the one who brought up the issue of opposite sex next door to the mix. Yet, I never accused you. can you imagine if i was the one who started this topic? My guess is that you could have demanded my immediate execution the way you reacted above.




That was not my position. It was you who probably assume so, without my leading you to it. You said if a very pretty girl was next door and a man caught a glance at here figure and the thought of having sex with her, that thought alone was enough as a sin, in Christianity. Since our conversation was about temptations as the handiwork of the devil, i gave you islamic perspective about it. In Islam, I said if the thought as temptation comes to one mind and one never acted upon it, it is not a sin, but a matter of struggling against the evil of fornication or adultery.


I also indicated that if the thought was very rampant, one should continue to struggle against it, by resisting to fall for it and at the same pray against it. I also illustrated the fact that a person who have the tendency to steal, but never stole can not be consider a thief. The fact of having the tendency does not make a person a bad person, as long as he/she never acted on that weakness, but always struggling against faultering. You see Islam has greater means of mercy and Forgiveness, in principles, if you consider that a sin is simply when one commits it, not the thought of it. If one is tempted and that is sin all by itself, what would you say about Jesus who was driven by the devil into the wilderness, tempted 3 times in addition?





I wonder how i flipped flopped, considering that one simply consciously decides to sit and watch for a period of time, the porn material that is in question. The flashes, of sexual thoughts, of the neighbor, regardless of how many times, is something of theoretical and not actuarial, in any form. While that may be bad, it is not in the same league with consciously making a decision to sit through a recorded act of it. One is imagination that is not continuous for a long period at any given time of said occurrance. The Porn watched is not imagination, but the true act of it, recorded. That is a very powerful image. I remember you talking about Anderson of CNN 360 degree. You said that he is hot. Could that thought be translated to have the same sexual effect on you, compared to if you were to watch his porn movie?





Please read my response to you in the thread where we discissed it then. I gave you what my wife said, initially. And i also said that she agreed with me that to struggle against evil is a very good thing. She said, that those who realise what evil that are pssing as thoughts in their hearts are better persons and can not be called sinners, as long as they never acted upon it. If just the mere thought of sinful things is considered as sin in itself, then Jesus can not be called sinless. to have had a thought that the devil deserved to be worship, or that he is the provider of sustenance, or to force God to act, each in itself would have to be considerd as great sin.

 

The trinity was found already in the Bible. If the concept was not in the Bible it wouldn't have been agreed upon. The emperor forced nothing on the Christians. Even if the devil himself sits on the See of Peter whatever he tries to accomplish would not come to fruition. The Church is protected by God. So even if the emperror tried to force something that was not on God and even if he conspire with the Pope it would not have come to fruition.

Three the concept of the Trinity is in the Bible. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the words of Christ:
Matthew 28:19
18 TheN Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY SPIRIT.
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. ANd behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.

The Trinity consists of the FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT.

The Trinity known in the Old Testament:

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
The concept of the majestic "we" does not lie in Christianity, so please don't bring that crap into Christianity, leave it in Islam.

Genesis 3:22
 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and
take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Isaiah 6:8
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who
will go for us?"

LUK 1:35  The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the
power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will
be called the Son of God.

This was before Christ the man walked the earth. The Holy Spirit already existed.

1 John 5:7 FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE.

Here is my favorite:

John 17
Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you
2 just as you gave him authority over all people, so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him.
3 Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
4 I glorified you on earth by accomplishing the work that you gave me to do.
5 Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.

I love especially verse 5. Jesus Christ has always been there. He didn't start existing when Mary birthed him. He existed before all that. He started existing in the human form when Mary birthed him, but in Spiritual form he has always been there.

I know it's hard to comprehend that he has been there, because you only see Jesus as a human. You are looking for answers about him from when he was born, but Christ was begotten and not made. He is not as the creature humans, if so, he would have the human nature of sin. Which is what separates us from the Father.

Jesus let it be known to the Pharisees that he existed with the Father before being born as a man of a woman.
John 8
24 That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

I AM, is not a regular "I am" like you and I would introduce ourselves saying "I am ~Lady, or I am Olabowale, or I am babs787"
No it is the name revealed to the Isrealites by GOD as his name. It is the name by which the Isrealites were able to know that Moses was sent from God:
Exodus 3
13 "But" said Moses to God, "when I go to the Isrealites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' if they ask me, 'What is his name?' what am I to tell them?"
14 God replied, "I AM WHO I AM" Then he added, "This is what you shall tell the Isrealites: I AM sent me to you"

I AM WHO I AM is YAHWEH in english. It is by this that we know that Jesus is the I AM. The same I AM that sent Moses.


I am stil trying to see how these are contradictory of each other when it is exactly what the Christians believe.
1) That Jesus is God
2) That the Holy Spirit is God
3) That Jesus is truly man and truly God. He is the meeting place of man and God. The meeting place of the sinless and the sinful. He took on the form of a man wihtout taking on the nature of a man. He was seen physically as you and me can be seen, yet he is without the sinful nature that we both have. I know the Quran teaches that. More reason why I believe that Muhammad took what was in the Scriptures and agreed to what he could understand. But what he couldn't understand he condemned, because to him it makes no sense, just as it makes no sense to you and it made no sense to the Arians and the Goths. Oh by the way they are who we call heretics, so why it you see the need to use them to prove your point, I don't get. At least try using people that are not condemned or are held in high regards to the faith.

You also mentioned the Jews rejecting the Trinity, um hello, they rejected Christ. How do you expect them to accept the Trinity when they rejected Christ himself? Does that even make sense to you?
Which leads me again to touch on the point that Christ did preach that he was the Son of God. If he didn't preach that he was the Son of God, then the Jews wouldn't have called for his cricifixion. Well we both know that the Jews and Christians agree on this.
So how is it that Christ died for what he didn't preach again? I would like to receive an explanation of that. Thanks.


I believe you missed the part about Christ and the Spirit being subject to God. That is why I say that the Bible verses you quote are not contradicting the belief of the Trinity. If you knew what the concept is you won't find this to be contradictory. The Christ and the Spirit are subject to God in that they are his hands. They carry out his work. Christ is his word, as he speaks things become, those words that he spoke in the Old Testament, the commandments, laws, prophecy, and all that, is who we call Jesus Christ. He is the Word of God made flesh. He is nothing without God and does not exist without the existence of God, he exists along with God as we see that God still speaks. When God said "Let there be light" those very words are who we call Christ. When God said these are the commandments or the laws,  those very laws are who we call Christ. He is the word spoken out of the mouth of God. He became flesh. He became flesh because God is capable of it. That is why he is begotten and not made as we humans are made. that is why he didn't have to be born of a man and a woman. he had to be born of a woman because he needed to come in the form of a man, he needed that stock that man is made of so that he could become man. When a child is conceived the forming takes place in the mother's womb and not the father. Christ was formed into the physique of man from a woman's womb, but he did not need the seed of a man to come into existence. Why? Because he already existed.

The Spirit is God's Spirit of all things I would think this is the easiest to grab and understand. Since we know that you can't exist without your Spirit. The Spirit is the Wisdom of God, he is the one that spoke through the prophets the Word (whom we call Christ). He existed along with the father and is the one that inspired the prophets and assisted the prophets. He is the one that filled the prophets and made them worthy men of God.

These are who we call the hands of God. They carry out the commands of God. Just as when we are born our hands are not separated from our body and are together with our body, so are these together with God. Our hands did not form later on in our life, they existed from the beginning of our existence that is how the Word and the Spirit exist as God exists. They did not form later on as you believe. No they have always been there. That is the belief of the Trinity. Just as we are identified by our fingerprints so is God identified by his (the WORD and the SPIRIT).

You have always viewed it from the angle of oh well he's human and he was born on so and so date so therefore he didn't exist until that date. Well he existed before then and that's what makes him so different from us humans. Our existence began when we were being formed in our mother's womb. His began from the beginning and as God and not from when Mary said yes and gave birth to him.

Same with the Spirit. He didn't start existing when Christ spoke of him to come as our advocate, but from the beginning and as God.


Could it be that God had to prepare humans to receive him. Could it be that God had to set in motion his perfect plan for salvation. Could it be that God had to make sure that these humans were willing to accept God and have him as their God?
Geez ask God why it is he does what he does? Why did God need prophets in the first place? Why are you asking this silly question?


I am not sure I understand your question here. How can there be prophecies of inherited sin? Ok, maybe I should clarify the "inherited sin" issue. I do understand why you would view it as if my father commits a sin then I shall pay for that particular sin. But the idea behind the notion is that all humans have a sinful nature. That is we are prone to sin. That is we can commit fornication, but it does not necessarily mean that we do. That is what is meant by "inherited sin" it was introduced by our first parents. They chose to disobey God and therefore introducing that idea of choosing to obey God or disobey Him. I used this analogy earlier. If diabeted runs in your afmily you are prone to getting the disease, but that does not necessarily mean that you will. You can avoid it by staying true to the instructions by your doctor. Diabetes is the sin, being prone to it is the sinful nature, the instructions are the laws of God, God is the doctor.

Here is where it is prophecied that Jesus will come and die for our sins.

Prophecy of Jesus' birthplace and pre-existence :
"But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days." (Micah 5:2).

Fulfillment:
"And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered. And she gave birth to her first-born son and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn." (Luke 2:47).

Prophecy of the virgin birth, divinity and unique sonship:
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (= God with us) (Isaiah 7:14).
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called 'Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.'". (Isaiah 9:6).

Fulfillment
"Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit; and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, 'Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit; she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.' All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 'Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel' (which means, God with us). (Matthew 1:18-23).

Prophecy concerning the time of his coming:
"Seventy weeks (of years, i.e 70 x7 years = 490 years) are determined upon thy people (Jews) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy (i.e. no more prophetic revelation added to the Bible after that), and to anoint the Most Holy (anoint = exalt, crown, dedicate, this is Christ). Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem (which at that time was destroyed and its inhabitants were captives in Babylon) unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks (49 years) and sixty-two weeks (434 years): The streets shall be built again, and the wall, even in troubled times."
49 years were actually needed to rebuild Jerusalem after Nehemiah got the royal order by Artaxerxes (B.C. 465-425), which he gave in the 20th year of his reign (Nehemiah 2:1,8b), i.e. 445 B.C. The book of Nehemiah states that Jerusalem was indeed rebuilt in troubled times, since many enemies were trying to hinder this. The remaining 434 years bring us to the year A.D. 38. Although this is some years after the triumphant entry of Christ into Jerusalem we must consider the fact that.


a)
Historical dates of this time are not quite as accurate as they are in more recent history, due to the fact that there was no proper calendar and different lengths of a year (Israel had a lunar year of 354 days) and
b)
this described event does not fit any other happening in history and we must consequently conclude that the error is more likely to be found in history than in the Bible.

"And after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself, and the people of the prince that shall come, shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (temple); and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
(The "prince that shall come" is no doubt Titus, the Roman conqueror and son of Emperor Vespasian who, after the death of the Messiah, came and destroyed Jerusalem and, against his will, the temple, in A.D. 70. After that "desolations are determined" and lasted until this present time!) (Daniel 9:24-26).

Prophecy foretelling that he came to save and to heal:
"Behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompense; He will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped." (Isaiah 35:4-5).

Fulfilment:
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21).
"For the Son of man came to seek and to save the lost." (Luke 19:10).
"No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God." (John 3:13-21).
"But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction; since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26).
"Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God." (Romans 5:1-2).
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:1).
"And Jesus stopped, and commanded him to be brought to him; and when he came near, he asked him, 'What do you want me to do for you?' He said, 'Lord, let me receive my sight.' And Jesus said to him, 'Receive your sight; your faith has made you well.' And immediately he received his sight and followed him, glorifying God; and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise to God." (Luke 18:40-43).
"And he went about Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every infirmity among the people. So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, epileptics, and paralytics, and he healed them." (Matthew 4:23-24).
"Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, 'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?' And Jesus answered them, 'Go and tell John what you hear and see; the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is he who takes no offence at me.'" (Matthew 11:2-6).
"That evening they brought to him many who were possessed with demons; and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, 'He took our infirmities and bore our diseases.'" (Matthew 8:16-17).

Prophecy predicting the name of Jesus ± B.C. 700:
"Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken ye people from far, the Lord has called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother has he made mention of my name. And he has made my mouth like a sharp sword; ,  I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be my salvation (Hebrew = Yeshua, the actual name of Jesus, when he lived in Israel) unto the end of the earth. Thus says the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despises, to whom the nation abhors." (Isaiah 49: 1-3; 6-7)

Fulfilment: The Angel told Joseph:

"She (Mary) shall bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21).

Prophecy of Jesus' humble entry to Jerusalem on a donkey:
"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, your king comes to you, he is just and having salvation; lowly and riding upon a colt, the foal of an ass (donkey). (Zechariah 9:9).

Fulfilment:
"And when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, 'Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find an ass tied, and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me. If any one says anything to you, you shall say, 'The Lord has need of them', and he will send them immediately.' This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on an ass, and on a colt, the foal of an ass.'
The disciples went and did what Jesus had directed them; they brought the ass and the colt, and put their garments on them, and he sat thereon. Most of the crowd spread their garments on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. And the crowds that went before him and that followed him shouted, 'Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!'" (Matthew 21:1-9).

Prophecy of the betrayal of Jesus:
"Yea, my own familiar friend, in whom I trusted ,  has lifted up his heel against me." (Psalm 41:9).
"And I said to them, if you think good, give me the price, and if not forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the Lord said unto me: cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prized at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord." (Zechariah 11:12-13).

Fulfilment:
"Then Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve, went to the chief priests in order to betray him to them. And when they heard it they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought an opportunity to betray him.
And when it was evening he came with the twelve. And as they were at the table eating, Jesus said, 'Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.' They began to be sorrowful, and to say to him one after another, 'Is it I?' He said to them, 'It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the dish with me. For the Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.' ,  Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders. Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, 'The one I shall kiss is the man; seize him and lead him away under guard.' And when he came, he went up to him at once, and said, 'Master!' And he kissed him. And they laid hands on him and seized him." (Mark 14:10-11, 17-21, 43-46).
"When Judas, his betrayer, saw that he (Jesus) was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying 'I have sinned in betraying innocent blood.' They said, 'What is that to us? See to it yourself.' And throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself. But the chief priests, taking the pieces of silver, said, 'It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, since they are blood money.' So they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day." (Matthew 27:3-8).

Prophecy of Jesus' mishandling at His "trial":
"I gave my back to the smiters and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I did not hide my face from shame and spitting." (Isaiah 60:6).

Fulfilment:
"They answered, 'He deserves death.' Then they spat in his face, and struck him; and some slapped him, saying 'Prophesy to us, you Christ! Who is it that struck you?" (Matthew 26:6S67). "one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand." (John 18:22).

Prophecy of the suffering and death by crucifixion of Jesus ± B.C. 700:
"When we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, and we hid our faces from him: he was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the punishment that brought us peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed. All we, like sheep, have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way, but the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgement, and who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the living. For the transgressions of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked (killed between two criminals!) and with the rich in his death (he was buried in the tomb of a wealthy man), because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him. He has put him to grief: When you shall make his soul an offering (sacrifice) for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied. By his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many (not ALL!), for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he has poured out his soul unto death and was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53).

"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my rearing? ,  All that see me laugh at me to scorn, they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying: He trusted on the Lord. But you are he, who took me out of the womb. You made me hope, when I was upon my mother's breast ,  They gaped upon me with their mouths as a ravening and a roaring lion. I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax. It is melted in the midst of my bowels. My strength is dried up like a potsherd and my tongue cleaves to my jaws and you have brought me into the dust of death. For dogs have encompassed me, the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet - I may count all my bones; they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them and cast lots upon my vesture." (Psalm 22:1, 7-9, 13-18).

Fulfilment:
"Jesus answered, 'My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world.' Pilate said to him, 'So you are a king? Jesus answered, 'You say that I am a king. For this I was born and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness of the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.' Pilate said to him: 'What is truth?' After he had said this, he (Pilate) went out to the Jews again, and told them, I find no crime in him. But you have a custom that I should release one man for you at the Passover; will you have me release for you the King of the Jews? They cried out again, 'Not this man, but Barabbas!' Now Barabbas was a robber.
Then Pilate took Jesus and scourged him. And the soldiers plaited a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and arrayed him in a purple robe; they came up to him, saying, 'Hail, King of the Jews!' and struck him with their hands. Pilate went out again, and said to to them, 'See, I am bringing him out to you, that you may know that I find no crime in him.' So Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, 'Behold the man!'
When the chief priests and the officers saw him, they cried out, 'Crucify him, crucify him!' Pilate said to them, 'Take him yourselves and crucify him, for I find no crime in him.' The Jews answered him, 'We have a law, and by that law he ought to die, because he has made himself the Son of God.' When Pilate heard these words, he was the more afraid; he entered the praetorium again and said to Jesus, 'Where are you from?' But Jesus gave no answer. Pilate therefore said to him, 'You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?' Jesus answered him, 'You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.'
Upon this Pilate sought to release him, but the Jews cried out, 'If you release this man, you are not Caesar's friend; every one who makes himself a king sets himself against Caesar.' When Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judgement seat at a place called The Pavement, and in Hebrew, Gabbatha. Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, 'Behold your King!' They cried out, 'Away with him, away with him, crucify him!' Pilate said to them, 'Shall I crucify your King?' The chief priests answered, 'We have no king but Caesar.' Then he handed him over to them to be crucified.
So they took Jesus, and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called the place of the skull, which is called in Hebrew Golgotha. There they crucified him, and with him two others, one on either side, and Jesus between them. Pilate also wrote a title and put it on the cross; it read, 'Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews.' Many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. The chief priests of the Jews then said to Pilate, 'Do not write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'This man said, I am King of the Jews.' Pilate answered, 'What I have written I have written.'
When the soldiers had crucified Jesus they took his garments and made four parts, one for each soldier; also his tunic. But the tunic was without seam, woven from top to bottom; so they said to one another, 'Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it to see whose it shall be.' This was to fulfill the scripture, 'They parted my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.'
So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, 'Woman, behold, your son!' Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother!' And from that hour the disciple took her to his own house.
After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the scripture), 'I thirst.' A bowl full of vinegar stood there; so they put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, 'It is finished'; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
Since it was the day of Preparation, in order to prevent the bodies from remaining on the cross on the sabbath (for that sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him; but when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. He who saw it has borne witness-his testimony is true, and he knows that he tells the truth - that you also may believe. For these things took place that the scripture might be fulfilled, 'Not a bone of him shall be broken.' And again another scripture says, 'They shall look on him whom they have pierced.' (John 18:36 - 19:37).

Prophecy of the resurrection of Jesus:
"I have set the Lord always before me, because he is at my right hand I shall not be moved. Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices. My flesh also shall rest in hope, for you will not leave my soul in hell (here 'sheol' = underworld, grave), neither will you allow your Holy One to see corruption." (Psalm 16:8-10).

Fulfilment:
"But on the first day of the 'week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel; and as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, 'Why do you seek the living among the dead? Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, that the Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise.' And they remembered his words, and returning from the tomb they told all this to the eleven and to all the rest. Now it was Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James and the other women with them who told this to the apostles; but these words seemed to them an idle tale, and they did not believe them." (Luke 24:1-11).

I have to leave campus. I'll be back another day. So I hope this is enough for now. But if you will please wait for me to finish responding. Sorry for the inconvenience.

@~Lady~:

To be sure if the understanding of Christianity is not CRAP on the idea of Majestic "we," and you can't blame Islam for it, majestic we, therefore need defination. I think you also need to ask the people who have heard the Oba of Bini address himself, whether he uses sigular or majestic we for himself. This should be enough anyhow. Heck. Even me Olabowale, I use majestic we for myself. I must from now onward be using it for myself when I am talking to you.  That may actually drive home the point. lol.

I am wondering how God addressed Himself, even before created anything, eg Angels, other spirits, like Jinns, heavens and earth, the other heavenly or solar system bodies, galaxies and milkways, etc, animals andplants, etc? Inshort, when He was alone; were there He God Almighty, Jesus in existence as a separate entity and Holy ghost/spirit? Were there 3 godheads and therefore God addressing Himself and the others about the wish or the intent to create all of those things? If these other two were there, you will notice that at no time did they make any sound to allow us to actually believe that they were there and important enough to God!

You will now see that even in the creation of man, a lesser even than the cumulative event of all other creations, we did not hear any sound from these other entities, as well. If in these two cases, creations of things previous to man and man, we did not see any inkling that Jesus and holy spirit were part of God by providing any acknowledgement sound of importance to the creation process, those who suggest that God has 3 entities have only made such statement by having no real proof. Anybody can say anything. But proof must be provided. We see that Jesus never uttered any word, at anytime prior to his coming out of Mary, his mother birth canal. We can safely say that Jesus was not important in creation.

@Lady


You should have broken it down for me to reply you. I browsed through your write up and saw that answers have been provided in some of the threads and most of the verses you gave have been given rebuttal by myself. Those verse you gave up do not in any way refer to Jesus.



Now is there no difference between 'in the namne of the father, son, holy spirit and God of the father, the son and Holy Spirit?



So sister, who was God speaking to when he said that? Who was with him?



How does this relates to trinity? Was God referring to Jesus?


 You don't have to pick a verse out of context, you have been accusing Muslims of this but I have found that Christians have been guilty of this.

Now let see if the verse referred to Jesus. In order to get the clearer picture, I would take it from the beginning for better understanding:

Isaiah 6 (King James Version)


 1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.


The above verse referred to when King Uzziah died and there was nobody called Jesus then.. This was Isaiah[color=#006600] talking.[/color][/b]

 2
Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

 3
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

 4
And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

[b]Isaiah[color=#006600] still talking:[/color][/b]
 
5
[b]Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

 6
Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

 7
And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Now read. God asked Isaiah to tell the people:[/b]
 8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, [b]Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

We can see from the above that God was asking Isaiah who to go and Isaiah said that he would to his people and should be mistaken for Jesus in which Christians have been erroneously attributing the verse to. Let us read further for understanding[/b]


 9And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

[b]Does the above has anything to do with Jesus?. What did God send Isaiah:

10Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.


Isaiah then asked:[/b]
11
[b]Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,

 12And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.


Did the above happen during Jesus' time?

 13
But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

Did the above happen during Jesus' time? Hope you have seen that it has nothing to do with Jesus?


Son of God and not God, get that straight please.


The above is in King James Version authorised in 1611 and formed the strongest evidence for the Doctrine of the Trinity. But now this part, 'the father, the word and the holy ghost; and these three are one' has been expunged in the Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971 and in many other bibles as it was a gloss that had encroached on the Greek test.

I john 5 v 7 and 8 in the New American Standard Bible read as follows; 'and it is the spirit who bears witness because the spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness, the spirit, and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement.[/b]

Also in the New World Translation of Holy Scriptures used by Jehovah Witness, you will find 'for there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement'. [b]



Where did you see that he existed since creation? The above verses nailed that doctrine if truly you understand your bible. The glory he had doesnt mean that he was in existence since creation. Let me add few verses for you to comprehend that God sent him and God was far above him.

""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone."    (Mark 10:18)"

He had no divine will:

Matthew 26 v 39:39.  Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

He couldnt do anything by himself
 
John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself"

He had no knowledge of the hour:
 
Matthew 24:36 Jesus said "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."[/b]

"One of those days [b]Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.  ( Luke 6:12)"

To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 6:101)"

Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.  (The Noble Quran, 112:1-4)"

"They say: 'God hath begotten a son' :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.  (The Noble Quran, 2:116)"



Sister, I have dealt with this in one of my posts. Did God need to change, suffer himself for human being to understand him? I also gave you verses where God cannot never be a man

.

Is there any proof to show that the statement ought to have been 'I AM GOD'. Mind you, I am could also mean 'I AM SENT BY GOD' etc. So your explanation has no solid backing.



I noticed that you didnt include all that I post and below is the detailed quote:

Three centuries after Jesus, the corrupt emperor Constantine forced the minority opinion of the trinity upon the council of Nicea. The Christian church went downward from there; in fact some of the creeds and councils actually contradict each other. The council of Nicea 325 said that "Jesus Christ is God," the council of Constantinople 381 said that "the Holy Spirit is God," the council of Ephesus 431 said that "human beings are totally depraved," the council of Chalcedon 451 said that "Jesus Christ is both man and God." 

Since you claimed that Jews didnt accept Jesus let alone accepting the doctrine, below is a quote on early christians on the rejection of the doctrine.

The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity.

Moreover, the 'Socinianism', the 17th-century Christian also rejects such traditional doctrines as the Trinity and original sin, the founder is Socinus, and his Latinized name of Lelio Francesco Maria Sozzini (1525-1562), the Italian Protestant theologian. 




Did you read the above? He was going to the father because the Father sent him and He is greater than him. Jesus couldnt change the will of God.


You claimed that he was begotten and not made like Human beings. What about other prophets in the bible that were begotten?  There is nowhere that shows that he exited since creation. What do you have to say to these that were begotten as well:

Hebrew 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

Psalms 2:7: "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

QURAN 4:171: “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah anything but the truth. Christ Jesus, the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not “Trinity”: desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.”



Sister, how did the word become Jesus . Have you forgotten that the holy spirit is the angel that God uses to send message to his prophets.  The 'be', you referred to is Kufayah Kun. Whe God desires somehing, he would just say Be and it would be.



Nothing shows that he existed before.



No, you got it wrong. The advocate couldnt have been the holy spirit because you yourself cofirmed that the holy spirit has been in existence since creation.



Why don't you have explanation for what you have been preachingthousands of years. This happen to be one of my reason for accepting the light (ISLAM) and this futher confirms  what you have been preaching but couldnt defend. Muslims have not been treating you the same way you avoided my question up. You should be able to respond if you are so sure of yourself and not waiting for God to reply. It would always look silly to you because you have been programmed with this indefendable doctrine.

Quote
Is there in any old prophesies the idea of inherited sin or where it was mentioned that jesus will come and die for sin or where jesus mention in his ministry that in respect of the sin of Adam and Eve, had come to rid the earth of its nuisance and has eventually come to die for that sin.





Sister, I couldnt help laughing at this darkness Christians have put themselves into. Do Christians read bible for understanding at all or just listen to what leaders tell you? You don't just lift a verse out of context and in case you have been using the above to lure people into Christianity, I am telling you now that nairalanders are beginning to see the truth through various exposure of biblical verses in which they have been using to deceive people. Here is the verse in full and you tell me how it relates and speaks about Jesus:


Micah 5

1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.

2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

9 Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.

10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots:

11 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strong holds:

12 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:

13 Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

14 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.

15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.[/b]

[b]Note my highlighted words and please did they happen during Jesus' time?
Please don't go about giving me wrong verses because I will further expose the truth.
You have been seeing the truth, it is now left for you to accept it.




Sister, don't go giving me wrong interpretation to biblical verses. Here are the verses in full and please tell me how they relate to Jesus?

Isaiah 7

1 During the reign of Ahaz son of Jotham and grandson of Uzziah, Jerusalem was attacked by King Rezin of Aram and King Pekah of Israel, the son of Remaliah[/b]. [b]The city withstood the attack, however, and was not taken.

Hope you can see what led to the prophecy?

2 The news had come to the royal court: "Aram is allied with Israel against us!" So the hearts of the king and his people trembled with fear, just as trees shake in a storm.

Hope you understood the above?

3 Then the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go out to meet King Ahaz, you and your son Shear-jashub. You will find the king at the end of the aqueduct that feeds water into the upper pool, near the road leading to the field where cloth is bleached.[/b]

[b]God told Isaiah to meet King Ahaz

4 Tell him to stop worrying. Tell him he doesn't need to fear the fierce anger of those two burned-out embers, King Rezin of Aram and Pekah son of Remaliah.[/b]

[b]King Ahaz was afraid of the attack on Jerusalem but God told Isaiah to look for him and tell him not to panick\

5 "Yes, the kings of Aram and Israel are coming against you. [color=#990000]They are saying,
6 `We will invade Judah and throw its people into panic. Then we will fight our way into Jerusalem and install the son of Tabeel as Judah's king.[/color][/b]'

[b]The attacker, King of Aram and Israel said the above but God said:

7 "But this is what the Sovereign LORD says: This invasion will never happen,
8 because Aram is no stronger than its capital, Damascus. And Damascus is no stronger than its king, Rezin. As for Israel, within sixty-five years it will be crushed and completely destroyed.

9 Israel is no stronger than its capital, Samaria. And Samaria is no stronger than its king, Pekah son of Remaliah. You do not believe me? If you want me to protect you, learn to believe what I say."

10 Not long after this, the LORD sent this message to King Ahaz:[/b]

[b]It seems King Ahaz was not satisfied with what God said and God now told him to request for a sign:

11 "Ask me for a sign, Ahaz, to prove that I will crush your enemies as I have promised. Ask for anything you like, and make it as difficult as you want."[/b]

[b]But the king refused:

12 But the king refused. "No," he said, "I wouldn't test the LORD like that."

13 Then Isaiah said, "Listen well, you royal family of David! You aren't satisfied to exhaust my patience. You exhaust the patience of God as well!

Isaiah made the above statement and God now said to them with regards to King Ahz and the sign to show him:

14 All right then, the Lord himself will choose the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel--`God is with us.'

Now, let us see if its for Jesus:

15 By the time this child is old enough to eat curds and honey, he will know enough to choose what is right and reject what is wrong.

Good, here it is, the prophecy ws not for him but the King because Aram and Israel attacked Jerusalem during the reign of King Ahaz and there [color=#000099]was nobody like Aram during Jesus' time but King Herod.[/color][/b]

16 But before he knows right from wrong, the [b]two kings you fear so much--the kings of Israel and Aram--will both be dead.

17 "The LORD will bring a terrible curse on you, your nation, and your family. You will soon experience greater terror than has been known in all the years since Solomon's empire was divided into Israel and Judah. The mighty king of Assyria will come with his great army!"

Did you see the above? Did any king of Assyria come during Jesus' time?
Was any terrible curse brought on the nation during his time?





I have given rebuttal to Isaiah 7 you interpreted wrongly. Let me quickly go to Isaioah 9 v 6

ISAIAH 9 V6

Most christians think that this prophesy was for Jesus, but we will read on to know if it was really for him.

Isaiah 9:6 - KJV
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isaiah 9:6 - LITV
"For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Let me add from 7: of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom, to order it and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of host will perform this.

Having done the above, let me break the verse for you

Government shall be on his shoulder

Did jesus ever rule his people? He was never allowed.
Was he king?

John 18v33-37: , then pilate entered into the judgment hall again and called jesus and said unto him, 'art thou the king of the jews'? Jesus answered, "my KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants  fight that I should not be delivered to the jews BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM THENCE.Pilate therefore said unto him, 'art thou A KING THEN?' Jesus answered, 'thou sayest that I am a king,

He was never king and he never ruled, as a result, the above prophesy is not for him.


Wonderful

He was not the only one to be accorded the word 'wonderful' .All prophets are wonderful. They all came with miracles and we learnt that Jesus said he couldnt do anything by himself

John 5v30: ,  i can of mine do nothing.

So he is not the wonderful referred to here.


Counsellor/Comforter

The prophesy is not for him as we read jesus telling his disciples that he needed to go so as allow room for the COMFORTER TO COME. (john 16v5-7).

He was never allowed to talk, as a result of this, he told them that it was necessary for him to go so that the comforter would come (the last prophet) and 'when he come, he would tell you all things and guide you into all truth'.
Jesus was never a counsellor/Comforter.


The Mighty God

He was not the only one being referred to as God. Mind you, small 'g' is supposed to be used in John 1v1 but never mind I will still talk on that. Moses too was made god for Pharaoh. If you don't know, one of the thieves name crucificted together with jesus is called JESUS BARABAS. meaning that he was another God. Jesus was supposed to be named Immanuel, but was named Jesus instead. Have you tried finding the meaning of the word 'jesus'?.Jesus was never a God and will never be. Moses too was referred to as god for Pharaoh.


The Prince of Peace."

Is jesus really prince of peace? lets read the below verses

Mathew 10v34: 'do not think that I HAVE COME TO MAKE PEACE ON EARTH? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING PEACE BUT A SWORD!!!!!!. For I have come to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER.

Luke 12v49: ' I CAME TO CAST FIRE UPON THE EARTH AND WOULD THAT IT WERE ALREADY KINDLED,  DO YOU THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO GIVE PEACE ON EARTH? NO. I TELL YOU, BUT RATHER DIVISION FOR FROM HENCEFORTH in one house there will be five divided, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother.

Was Jesus really prince of peace?

Lets read:

Zephaniah 2:12-15

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist

Ezekiel 9:5-7
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Mathew 10 v 34:
Do not think that I have come to make peace on earth? I have not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother.

Luke 12 v 49:
I came to cast fire upn the earth, and would that it were already kindled. Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for from hencefortgh in one house there will be five divided, theee against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son, and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother.

Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5

 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, , and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Genesis 38 v 7; But Er, Judah's first born was wicked in the sight of the Lord and the Lord killed him.




Biblical proof please?



How does the above refer to Jesus/ Read for understanding please and not picking a verse out of context for me. It was not for Jesus Madam. OH I have seen, you thought it was for Jesus because we have the eyes of the blind shall be opened etc. Come off it, you need to study your bible harder.

This is the full verse for your understanding.

1 The desert and the parched land will be glad; the wilderness will rejoice and blossom.        Like the crocus, 2 it will burst into bloom; it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy. The glory of Lebanon will be given to it, the splendor of Carmel and Sharon; they will see the glory of the LORD, the splendor of our God. 3 Strengthen the feeble hands, steady the knees that give way; 4 say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you." 5 Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. 6 Then will the lame leap like a deer, and the mute tongue shout for joy. Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert. 7 The burning sand will become a pool, the thirsty ground bubbling springs.
In the haunts where jackals once lay, grass and reeds and papyrus will grow. 8 And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it;
it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it. 9 No lion will be there, nor will any ferocious beast get up on it; they will not be found there. But only the redeemed will walk there, 10 and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them,       and sorrow and sighing will flee away.



Are you a Jew and in what way are you one of his people. He was rasied as a saviour for the house of the children of Israel and how does that affects you?



Thats for the house of Israel and not you a Nigerian.