|
davidylan (m)
|
trained young doctors from the US would be wasting time, effort and money to go work for pittance in Nigeria.
|
|
|
|
|
|
tpia
|
and this may interest d poster
Doctors abandon hospitals, take up jobs in telecoms, banks
Muda Oyeniran, Lagos - 14.07.2008
THE brain drain currently plaguing the nation’s health sector may soon worsen as doctors now prefer to take up juicy appointments in the telecommunications and banking sectors of the economy.
Investigation conducted by the Nigerian Tribune has revealed that at least three out of every five graduates of Medicine and Surgery now eye jobs in telecoms companies and banks.
Further investigation showed that those who do not go for jobs in telecoms companies and banks now prefer to set up health-related non-governmental Organisations through which they could earn hard currencies from foreign bodies.
According to Dr Kunle Obagaye, a Senior Registrar and immediate past President, Association of Resident Doctors (ARD), Psychiatric Hospital, Yaba, Lagos, the action of the doctors was not unconnected with the poor pay package and condition of service of doctors in the country.
“Some of them have seen many senior doctors and consultants wallowing in poverty and they are just being proactive by going for a less stressful but more financially rewarding career,” he added.
When asked to comment on the issue, the Provost, College of Medicine, Lagos State University, Professor Oladapo Obafunwa, said he was not interested in commenting on it.
“I am not inclined to comment on the issue. Thank you,” he told the Nigerian Tribune.
However, a top official of a new generation bank confirmed to the Nigerian Tribune that the company had many doctors and pharmacists-turned bankers on their payroll, adding that they were doing well on the job
Cuba has 70,000 doctors. When their borders are opened I'm sure many of them will look for jobs in Nigeria and elsewhere. Some will go to the US, others wont. Nigeria once hired Cuban physicians en-masse. It can happen again. I have many friends who are practicing doctors in Nigeria. None of them is a banker, to the best of my knowledge. Some are even refusing to travel abroad, saying they don't want to go through the rigors of starting afresh overseas. Doing odd jobs as cab drivers, burger flippers, and whatnot while trying to passs the foreign boards. So I don't know where this reporter got his facts from, but to assume every doctor in Nigeria is trying to move into banking, is one heck of a generalization. And even if some are, so what? Many doctors do plan to go for MBAs and other disciplines even right after graduation. Doctors can eye other jobs- whats new there. Nurses also change profession if they wish to. Someone i know used to tell me about a teacher in Ibadan back in the 80s who went back to school and became a medical doctor. I personally know another doctor like that, who used to be a teacher. People will go where the money is.Most people in the US know Sanjay Gupta, on CNN. he's a trained neurosurgeon, but I don't see anyone generalizing about him being a journalist now. Some of the posters here don't seem to understand that not everyone is about making quick money. Must be a side effect of the get rich quick prosperity gospel which has taken over these days. Maybe all the 140 million plus Nigerians should up and vacate the country, going by the way some people talk here. why not try it and see how fast other countries will build new prisons for all of you, as well as dumping your behinds in some desert or back in Nigeria. |
|
|
|
|
|
donofdons
|
You can return to the country after graduation if you want to and u will be a hot cake especally if u graduated from usa,uk,australia,ukraine,russia,malayasia or any european or developed country but i don't think you would be able to cope with the situation in some parts of the country,so think well before u decide.
|
|
|
|
|
|
esoneek (m)
|
e be like say u no know where u dey come to.
we here are planning how we go take clear comot u still dey talk say u won come back.
Na untill u begin use your phone light to reset IV line u go sabi!
|
|
|
|
|
|
bongabiz
|
To KONGI: Concerning starting postgraduate training/residency in the UK, how feasible is it for a fresh Nigerian medical graduate. Is it true that it's a lot easier in Scotland. Generally speaking, which residencies are more open, if at all? Thanks for helping a brother, the medical situation in Nigeria is challenging, to get a residency spot early you need connections and all that so I'm looking for other options everywhere. You could reach me at bongabiz@hotmail.com if you wish. I'D really appreciate your answer. Thanks, Bongabiz |
|
|
|
|
|
na2day? (m)
|
when i worked in luth i saw foreign medical graduates from countries like brazil russia cuba then from eastern europe as well (these ones were so dull God knows what they teach them there) if you are in this category then you can come home but to do what?  few govt hospital positions (slightly ok pay) and then the pittiance we are paid in private hospitals every other colleague of ours thats young and new is on their way out of nigeria we would only come back when we are much much older and more experienced to get appointed to juicy consultant positions in the teaching hospitals , as well as establish private hospitals and the ones who have trained in the UK and US would never i repeat never consider coming home now as well men guy/girl its hard out here for doctors ooo  not even to compare us with our junior brothers in banks and good firms if its juju from your village pray against it oo correct man  |
|
|
|
|
|
ferdiii (m)
|
There are good hospitals in Nigeria, during the last nations cup when a player had a head injury; they had to fly him from Ghana to Nigeria because there was no equipment in the whole of Ghana that could adequately scan the head to help in diagnosis. Even BBC reported it so I don't know why some of you here are just running your mouth. Reddington specialist hospital and 2 or 3 other private places are very good though expensive and majority of them are located in Lagos.
Investigations showed that the foreign trips on which the N655m was spent included Yar’Adua’s presidential visit to China on February 27, 2008; medical check-up in Germany on April 4; and the May 22 African Union committee of 12 meeting in Arusha, Tanzania.
Others include his visits to South Africa on June 6; France on June 11; Egypt on June 29 for the AU summit; and the G8 summit in Japan on July 6.
Yar'Adua is not hearing these good places for his illness. Haba!Imagine jonathan dey find pope's blessings when hin dey steal us blind. Dey spend our money like a fool.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kongi (m)
|
Bongabiz
Postgraduate trainign in the UK is not really available if you are a fresh Nigerian graduate unless you happen to have British citizenship.
The new visa rules mean your passport will be stamped 'unable to work as a doctor in training'
The best you can get is locums which pay very well i no go lie but for how long you wan do am?
Scotland does not have more opportunities for training contrary to whatever you may hear. The same immigration restritions apply. You can work but you can't train. The equivalent of working as an M.O. in Naija instead of a Reg.
If you do manage to get into the locums, you will get £35 to £45 per hour, much more than those of us in training.
You do need to plan before you move though.
I can't speak authoritatively on the US, Australia, SA or the Carribean but friends there have their stories to tell, some good and some bad.
All the best as you decide but you need to make up your mind sharp sharp
Nigeria we hail thee
For all non-doctors who are replying to this post,
He who wears the shoe knows whre it pinches, una no fit understand
|
|
|
|
|
|
lucabrasi (m)
|
nigerians and titles so we must be doctors to know whats happening,are doctors from another planet na wa o |
|
|
|
|
|
Echeozo (m)
|
@ Tpia,
I hope you'll never change your position.
@ poster
With all the posts so far you should be in a position to make up your mind.
NAIJA HARD
|
|
|
|
|
|
tpia
|
@ Tpia,
I hope you'll never change your position.
@ poster
With all the posts so far you should be in a position to make up your mind.
NAIJA HARD
no one is saying naija is not hard. But naija isnt the only hard place on this planet. Some Nigerians have made it their life's goal to constantly badmouth the place as if that will make other countries where they claim citizenship, like them more. I have also lived in Nigeria and I know how it is over there. I know what it is to have fluctuating power supply and bad roads. But one thing I'm noticing is I don't see other countries attacking their origins the way Nigerians constantly do. Una no dey rest?What does changing my position have to do with the fact that its not always automatically rosy overseas either. Someone can come here, study for his board exams while doing various burger flipping or toilet cleaning jobs, and still fail them. You're only allowed to sit for the exams a certain number of times. I've seen some doctors study till they're almost wrecked, but still fail. I know others who stopped trying after they got discouraged, and since then ,stuck to odd jobs and abandoned medicine entirely. Of course many pass the exams and start looking for the highly competitive residency programs which are also becoming tougher and tougher to get into. For those who are lucky and get one, they might have to struggle with the terribly low wages during training while working all kinds of hours and going through various kinds of stress. especially if they don't have financial support in the form of wife/girlfriend or sibling assistance. If I now come here and start singing about how easily a doctor will become a millionaire if only they can travel out, who am I fooling and what do I have to gain by it. yes, doctors can make it big overseas just like they can make it big in Nigeria. But you don't make it big anywhere without stress and hard work. Unless you are a drug courier or 419er. All this Naija bad overseas good as if folks are reciting Animal farm verbatim, is totally unrealistic. |
|
|
|
|
|
Echeozo (m)
|
no one is saying naija is not hard. But naija isnt the only hard place on this planet. Some Nigerians have made it their life's goal to constantly badmouth the place as if that will make other countries where they claim citizenship, like them more.
I have also lived in Nigeria and I know how it is over there. I know what it is to have fluctuating power supply and bad roads.
But one thing I'm noticing is I don't see other countries attacking their origins the way Nigerians constantly do. Una no dey rest?
What does changing my position have to do with the fact that its not always automatically rosy overseas either. Someone can come here, study for his board exams while doing various burger flipping or toilet cleaning jobs, and still fail them. You're only allowed to sit for the exams a certain number of times. I've seen some doctors study till they're almost wrecked, but still fail. I know others who stopped trying after they got discouraged, and since then ,stuck to odd jobs and abandoned medicine entirely.
Of course many pass the exams and start looking for the highly competitive residency programs which are also becoming tougher and tougher to get into. For those who are lucky and get one, they might have to struggle with the terribly low wages during training while working all kinds of hours and going through various kinds of stress. especially if they don't have financial support in the form of wife/girlfriend or sibling assistance.
If I now come here and start singing about how easily a doctor will become a millionaire if only they can travel out, who am I fooling and what do I have to gain by it.
yes, doctors can make it big overseas just like they can make it big in Nigeria. But you don't make it big anywhere without stress and hard work. Unless you are a drug courier or 419er.
All this Naija bad overseas good as if folks are reciting Animal farm verbatim, is totally unrealistic.
Bros, na New zealand you dey sef . I think you are the one being unrealistic.You should have stayed back home to prove your point. Bad-mouthing? Pointing out how much apathy the government has on the nation (resulting in the decay in the Nigerian society) is bad-mouthing in your dictionary,eh? Every nation has got her problems but a sign of a good nation is one that strives to solve hers. It's the same love for Nigeria that makes us talk about the ills in Nigeria. No right-thinking person wastes his time on issues that doesn't affect him. We want to see our beloved country better,a change which our generation never saw only heard of. Doctors in Nigeria get way less than they deserve.Spending so many years in school,coupled with lots of money on books,all for raisins is not my idea of living. Medicine is a science of Life,loosing a life due to NEPA is not medicine;not being able to effectively learn and practice new medical trends is not Medicine;having a poor and negligent administrative structure is not Medicine. All I'm saying is that if the poster loves this profession he should practice it in earnest and not just for the title. @ poster, you've got to tell us where you are so we can help you better. |
|
|
|
|
|
Troynow (m)
|
I think it's a beautiful thing to want to come back and practice in Nigeria. But I hope the reason is because you want to use the skills you've acquired to help out, and not because where you studied is not better than Nigeria. If the latter is the case, please work out a way to get to someplace better, maybe Europe (if you can stand the racial discrimination). You don't have to be in Nigeria to help the country. You could open a health care facility in Nigeria and employ doctors in which you've instilled your knowledge and skill. I'm a Medical student and pressure is on me to leave Nigeria immediately after my housemanship and NYSC. Cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
oyb (m)
|
oddly, one finds that people mfrom other professions - eg engineering, finance, accounting will make it big when they come back home - i should know - my company will make a fella with a foreign masters and no experienece a manager - just like that. but its the reverse for medical professionals. don't even fall for that bull about giving back to the fatherland. you will find yourself surrounded by mediocres who will do all they can to frustrate you. i should know - my dad trained in england and came back home. in 83. 7 years later he was in the middle east. after a lot of frustartaion. why invest heavily - sweat, tears, money only for more of the same - sweat tears and no money? most of my friends back in school were med students - and 90% of them have fled the shores of naija( see hustling - me sef i fear ) unless you take a masters in epidemology/public health (equals who/cccd/ ngo job) - don't come back home. you will experienec 9 types of frustration - unless u are doing the dupe ozolua thingy |
|
|
|
|
|
erratic
|
Bongabiz
Postgraduate trainign in the UK is not really available if you are a fresh Nigerian graduate unless you happen to have British citizenship.
The new visa rules mean your passport will be stamped 'unable to work as a doctor in training'
The best you can get is locums which pay very well i no go lie but for how long you wan do am?
Scotland does not have more opportunities for training contrary to whatever you may hear. The same immigration restritions apply. You can work but you can't train. The equivalent of working as an M.O. in Naija instead of a Reg.
If you do manage to get into the locums, you will get £35 to £45 per hour, much more than those of us in training.
35-45 quid an hour? Those must be the lucky ones. I hear its commonly 25-29quid an hr. @poster I think your best bet will be to take up job with a private set up and build a clientele and recognition over a few years and thereafter who knows you might be the owner of the next EKO corp . Or you could go to the surburb with a budget. Of course you can always go for residency if age and family/social responsibility allows. Even then what happens when you get out and you don't have the clientelle? Kongi don talk am and I agree. Who no wear shoe not fit tell you how e dey pain. |
|
|
|
|
|
davidif (m)
|
@poster
If you like yourself you better, i repeat BETTER get back to where you came from, where do you want to work? Nassarawa? Kebbi? or Benue? If you miss Nigeria so much then come home for vacation during the summer or spend a year after that, you better pack your things and get out of that hell hole and head back to where you came from?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rizoma
|
Ziga and Centrino,Please I need You guys as my new best friends. I am days away from being admitted into a med school in Aruba(netherlands antilles) but I really don't know much about carribean medical education. Please is it true that they guarantee you clinical training in the US though my dream is to work for the UN in some crisis ridden countries like sudan and somalia,I reall y want to be trained in the US. Greys Anatomy really challenges me. Any infomation you can share, my email address is GUNNER_DOCTOR@HOTMAIL.COM. Bless u |
|
|
|
|
|
bongabiz
|
TO KONGI:
Thanks alot for the information, really, really helpful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
davidif (m)
|
@rizoma
My sister goes to medical school also in the carribean and the schools are awesome and they cost less.
|
|
|
|
|
|
BangBang! (m)
|
@rizoma
My sister goes to medical school also in the carribean and the schools are awesome and they cost less.
yes some med skools in the carrib's cost less and are of good quality!! |
|
|
|
|
|
ziga
|
Just want people to know that its not as rosy outside the country as lots of people believe,
In the US, preparing for and passing their licensing exam (with very good scores) is just one thing. Getting an interview and finally getting into a residency program is so competitive. There are with lots of medical graduates from different parts of the world hanging on year after year and still getting dissappointed. US resident doctors don't qualify as people earning lots of money and after eventually becoming a consultant, you might not be able to remain in the US because of some immigration laws(most of the visas given for residency training requires that you return to your country of origin).
In the UK and many EU communities, you are only considered if you are a citizen of that country or from any of the other EU countries.
Some other countries(India) don't even pay their doctors during residency (their doctors actually have to pay to work in the hospitals) which explains why there are lots of Indian doctors all over the world.
In the Caribbeans, you may get some medical officer job. Some of them are actually contracts for limited durations meaning you will be let off if they get an equally qualified local.
This is not to discourage anybody planning to leave Naija because despite all these odds a few people still get through "without hanging in limbo". But before leaving you should be convinced that you are actually leaving for something "very much" better than what you are leaving or else you will be really disappointed at the end of the day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
oyb (m)
|
Just want people to know that its not as rosy outside the country as lots of people believe,
In the US, preparing for and passing their licensing exam (with very good scores) is just one thing. Getting an interview and finally getting into a residency program is so competitive. There are with lots of medical graduates from different parts of the world hanging on year after year and still getting dissappointed. US resident doctors don't qualify as people earning lots of money and after eventually becoming a consultant, you might not be able to remain in the US because of some immigration laws(most of the visas given for residency training requires that you return to your country of origin).
In the UK and many EU communities, you are only considered if you are a citizen of that country or from any of the other EU countries.
Some other countries(India) don't even pay their doctors during residency (their doctors actually have to pay to work in the hospitals) which explains why there are lots of Indian doctors all over the world.
In the Caribbeans, you may get some medical officer job. Some of them are actually contracts for limited durations meaning you will be let off if they get an equally qualified local.
This is not to discourage anybody planning to leave Naija because despite all these odds a few people still get through "without hanging in limbo". But before leaving you should be convinced that you are actually leaving for something "very much" better than what you are leaving or else you will be really disappointed at the end of the day.
you are obviusly not a doctor. thats why you think doctors have much of a future in nigeria. unless u want them to do the teacher option - wait for a reward in heaven. |
|
|
|
|
|
ziga
|
you are obviusly not a doctor. thats why you think doctors have much of a future in nigeria. unless u want them to do the teacher option - wait for a reward in heaven. You are obviously in Nigeria. One of those who think the grass is always green on the other side. |
|
|
|
|
|
PLAYETTE (f)
|
@ziga, We might have met, Who knows. I see you are in Grenada.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kongi (m)
|
I thought I don talk all I go need to talk but got to answer some posts.
@Lucabrasi
No be title matter.
Do you know how much the average doctor is paid by govt or private hospitals?
Do you know how many doctors apply for each advertised post?
Do you know how many doctors in Naija are unemployed?
Do you know how many medical graduates Naija produces each year?
Do you know the expectations society and family place on doctors financial and otherwise?
Troynow’s post should give you an inkling
Why ARD dey strike every so often?
Why is every doctor you know leaving the country?
No be any title matter my brother, if you aren’t a doctor, abeg how you wan take know the answer to these questions?
I have worked at management level, conducted interviews for and recruited doctors in Naija so believe me when I tell you things are very very sad for Nigerian doctors. E dey always pain me when you see doctors grateful to earn 70k!
That is crap my brother, wetin 70k go do person?
It's not worth the investment into an MBChB or MBBS or MD!
If it costs you 10k to buy a commodity, 12k for all your overheads and you sell it for 21k, then something dey do you!
Many people don't earn 70k a month some people will say but that doesn't mean you should take a loss on your investment.
If leaving Naija is what is needed to recoup your investment, then by Jove, thats what you need to do.
Ask any doctor friend, brother, uncle or neighbour you have how much fun it is being a doctor in Nigeria. But I must warn you, the Lamentation go pass Jeremiah own
@poster,
The people have spoken! Let us know where you are and we can give you targeted advice tailored to your particular needs. This kind question no be one-size-fits-all answer you need!
@Erratic
It is £35 an hour minimum. I can tell you from personal experience. If you need me, you have to pay me enough for me to get outa bed for. They need us, not the other way around.
@Bongabiz
You are welcome my brother/sister
I don cut
|
|
|
|
|
|
erratic
|
Ok, but our peeps them try sha. I go take 35 quid feed wife and pikin and then come pay mortgage then come get sth to save?
Meanwhile, you are not even sure of when the next locum opportunity will present. We need to be more forthcoming with these facts so that ambitious young doctors just leaving school do not derail. A young doctor making 120k in Nigeria I think has more prospect of a successful career and comfortable retirement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kongi (m)
|
All I can do is paint the facts my brother. I don't earn £35 an hour but I make enough to feed my wife, kids, pay mortgage, save, invest and send to Naija. My situation differs from the next man's own. Funny enough, I was earning well over 120k in Naija a few years ago. I guess I was lucky but on my salary, I couldn't afford to get married, rent a house or do anything tangible! How many doctors in Naija do you think earn 120k? ? Some earn 36k o! My options were limited in Naija so I explored other avenues. I was that young doctor in Naija making over 120k and having a lot of my expenses covered by my organisation but my brother, if you peer into the tunnel, LIGHT NO DEY! I advice my junior colleagues all the time, gander and goose no be the same. Assess your options and any opportunities you may have and then make a carefully calculated move. My being where I am today is by His Grace and careful planning and consideration for well over 3 years. Which prospects dey Naija sef? How many consultant posts are available? That na even if you manage get into residency. It's now man know man for residency o! Check amof a successful career and comfortable retirement |
|
|
|
|
|
ziga
|
@playette
Very possible, Grenada's a very small town. You in SGU?
|
|
|
|
|
|
zerocool (m)
|
Well Well Well,
All Well Said. Really find this post an interesting one for Med students in Naija like me.
I have my opinion concerning this issue, but it's quite enlightening reading opinions of Doctors both here and abroad.
|
|
|
|
|
|
bongabiz
|
As regards locum doctors in the UK, how stable is their employment, i.e. is one likely to be employed through the year, and if so, how come they are paid more? What's the catch?!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kongi (m)
|
Locums are not really easy to get in.
It's kind of catch 22 really. You need UK experience to get a job and you can only get UK experience if you get a job so the road is usually rough. Most people go the clinical attachment route first and then start looking. You usually get a locum at the hospital where you did you attachment and after that register with a locum agency.
After this, things are much more straightforward.
The reason locums pay more?
Of course there is a catch.
You can't lay down root because you don't know where the next job will be.
Notice my choice of words;
You don't know where the next job will be
NOT you don't know when the next job will come
You can work in Carlisle for 3 weeks then Portsmouth for 5 weeks then Wolverhampton for 10 weeks before going to Carmarthen for 1 week.
There is no continuity and you are not getting training is another disadvantage of locums
There are always jobs though. I got a call on Monday morning offering me a locum 120 miles away for 5 weeks at £45/hr. I refused it and it appears they are desperate for someone to fill the post.
You need to accumulate some experience though before you can be in those shoes but I have a friend who has been in the UK since December and he has been doing steady locums since March. He has quite a few locums to choose from when his current one runs out in 2 weeks
E no easy but it's not impossible if you know what you are getting into and have good support in the UK vis a vis accommodation and feeding.
You need a fair bit of savings too, £4000 will bw about right to tide you till you start work.
You must write PLAB 1 before you arrive and then come to the UK, write PLAB 2, go back to Naija and wait to make sure you pass before the real struggle starts.
You must always have a back-up plan because no be everybody go eventually enter so you need to continue whatever you are doing in Naija while doing all these.
You need to get advice from people in the rest of the world make them tell you how things be for where them dey before you decide on a line of action.
Whatever you decide, ask for His direction and make your move.
Time dey go my brother
All the best
|
|
|
|
|
|
bongabiz
|
@ KONGI
Thanks again for the very helpful information you've given. I pray God grants you success & fulfilment in your endeavours.
|
|
|
|
|
|
![Nairaland [Nigerian Forum] Home](http://www.nairaland.com/Themes/default/images/english/home.gif)
Author
