Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?

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Nairaland Forum  |  General Discussion  |  Religion  |  Islam for Muslims (Moderators: mukina2, Mustay)  |  Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
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Author Topic: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?  (Read 423 views)
samba123 (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #32 on: July 22, 2008, 08:44 AM »

Quote from: davidylan on July 21, 2008, 08:47 PM
blabs, can you talk of the quran for once without including these three things:

 - Jews
 - Christians
 - The bible.

Do you need such as a crutch for an unstable religion?

of course there are many thing you can talk without those mention scriptures, the Quran in every day life you can hear in every Mosques reading and spreading dawaah to the people after prayer or before prayer.





Mustay (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #33 on: July 22, 2008, 09:41 AM »

Quote from: davidylan on July 21, 2008, 06:18 PM
Doesnt the above smack of intolerance and veiled hypocrisy? The religion section should be open to you while you also have a special section for muslims only? I rest my case.

The Christianity for Christians board is available for y'all - why not contact the Admin to activate it?

ayinba1 (f)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #34 on: July 22, 2008, 02:27 PM »

@ Davidylan

Ponder over this for a minute or two.

"Even if We had sent to them the angels, made the dead speak to them, and presented all the different things of the world before them as proof, they would have not believed, unless Allah wanted otherwise (and forcing someone to believe is not what He wants): Yet most of them act out of ignorance. Like this Messenger, We had granted each Messenger his opponents - Satans from among the human beings and Jinns - some of them inspire the others with seductive discourses of deception. If your Lord wanted, they would not have done so. Therefore, neglect them as well as what they invent, so that the hearts of those who do not believe in the hereafter may be inclined to what they say, and be pleased with it; and so that they can earn what they wish to earn. Say: Should I seek a judge other than Allah, when He is the One Who has revealed this Book (The Qur'an) with full details?

Those whom We gave the Book, before you, know very well that it is revealed to you from your Lord with the Truth; therefore, you should not be of those who have doubts. The Words of your Lord have been completed with credibility and justice; there is no way to change His Words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.6 v 111-115"


@topic.
If the section being quiet is a good thing, you should commend us and move on. I am not sure what the aim was with your question but I sure hope it is not to disturb the peace, that would be in poor taste. You can come anytime and I am sure just reading through the posts will open your hear to the truth.
littleb (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #35 on: July 22, 2008, 02:59 PM »

@cayon
Quote
I was surfing in the Islam for Muslims section and it is so quiet there that  one can hear a pin drop.

Yes, it is like that because muslims serve God in one accord. There is divine procedures for each activity which is general all over the world. So, why difference opinnion since there is manual for major activities in their religion. Muslims base their exposition on the Quran and the minor differences occur base on the tradition of the prophet. Moreover, the true traditions are to be followed in as much as it is derived from the Holy Quran.

Quote
In the Christian section, we are always ready to curse each other out for difference of opinion.

Allah has forewarned muslims of this:

As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, you have no part of them in the least. Their affair is with Allah; He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did." (6:159)

"And surely this brotherhood of your is a single brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher. Therefore fear Me and no other. But people have broken their religion into sects, each group rejoicing in that which is with them. But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time." (23:52-54)

"Turn back in repentance to Him, and fear Him. Establish regular prayers, and be not among those who ascribe partners to God -- those who split up their religion, and become mere sects, each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!" (30:31-32)

@Jagoon
Quote
I would correct you, the reason the muslim section is more quiet than the other section is because muslim youths have found other ways to express themselves like terrorism, arson,oprresive, jihadist and other militant forms of expressions. Rather than intellectual forums like the were they would not be able to contribute meaningfully because while their mates were getting properly educated in western schools, they were busy learning kewu.

That's what you hear from the media. Consequently, your reasoning is reflecting the intellect in you. Scale it ursef.

@davidylan
Quote
The vast majority of them don't really understand the quran and have nothing besides over-used talking points they learnt fromthe Imaam

Pastor david, have you ever raised a question in line with Islam that we don't have proof from the Quran? We couldn't if we have not learn it proper.

Quote
The average muslim has been raised NEVER to question his religion even in the face of glaring errors.

Then, no discussion further. If one belief there exist errors in one's faith, then it is relevant to their disunity and argument.

davidylan (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #36 on: July 22, 2008, 03:05 PM »

Quote from: Mustay on July 22, 2008, 09:41 AM
The Christianity for Christians board is available for y'all - why not contact the Admin to activate it?

not necessary, criticism is allowed . . . infact i find out it forces me to search my bible deeper, to question why i hold certain beliefs and has more than strengthened my faith.

Quote from: ayinba1 on July 22, 2008, 02:27 PM
Those whom We gave the Book, before you, know very well that it is revealed to you from your Lord with the Truth; therefore, you should not be of those who have doubts. The Words of your Lord have been completed with credibility and justice; there is no way to change His Words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.6 v 111-115"

Ponder over this for a minute - what book?

Quote from: littleb on July 22, 2008, 02:59 PM
@davidylan
Pastor david, have you ever raised a question in line with Islam that we don't have proof from the Quran? We couldn't if we have not learn it proper.

So many questions have been raised . . . they've either been:
1. totally ignored
2. Avoided by posting pages upon pages of irrelevant material.
3. Those asking the questions are vilified and accused of bashing islam.
4. Admin threatened and forced to lock the thread.
5. A special section that precludes such questions from ever being asked now created.

I will ask a question so you can prove me wrong littleb - why is Mohammad not predicted ONCE in the quran but you have to sift through the very bible you claim is corrupt to find prophecies of him?
littleb (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #37 on: July 22, 2008, 04:14 PM »

@davidylan,

Quote
why is Mohammad not predicted ONCE in the quran but you have to sift through the very bible you claim is corrupt to find prophecies of him?


Dear david, your question is very clear and to every person who has read the history can quickly answer. Bible has been in existence for long before Quran.  And thus Quran was reveal to Muhammad. This is quite logical, you can only have prediction in what is before your existence and not within. Quran make reference to the books before and future occurrence. Google the history of Prophet Muhammad and you shall be clearoff. What next?
theopops
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #38 on: July 22, 2008, 06:11 PM »

This is about to get interesting. Please, littleb, promise not to run away once David starts to fire you questions. Some of us have been waiting for answers to the questions that has been raised here and we get tired of very lengthy-irrelevant answers. I like your straight to the point answer.

Thanks in advance.
Cayon (f)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #39 on: July 23, 2008, 04:02 AM »

Geez, so this is where this thread ended up.  I was up and down in the Christian Section  for two days looking for this thread.

Phew!!! Not even a note to say "hey Cayon, guess what? gyal we moved your thread and you can't do a damn thing about it" some moderators y'all be. oh well!
tpia
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #40 on: July 23, 2008, 04:16 AM »

 
Quote
criticism is allowed . . . infact i find out it forces me to search my bible deeper, to question why i hold certain beliefs


thats it in a nutshell oh.

Any religion where I feel complacent, and which I don't find challenging, is not the religion for me.
olabowale (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #41 on: July 23, 2008, 05:03 AM »

@Davidylan: Please read all of my presentations, below. Get yourself a referenced copy, the Qur'an.  English text is OK.
Quote
I will ask a question so you can prove me wrong littleb - why is Mohammad not predicted ONCE in the quran but you have to sift through the very bible you claim is corrupt to find prophecies of him?

Surah Baqarah 2 Verse 129; Anabi Ibrahiim prayer for the coming of Muhammad (AS).

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Allah's Apostle said, "Noah will be called on the Day of Resurrection and he will say, 'Labbaik and Sa'daik, O my Lord!' Allah will say, 'Did you convey the Message?' Noah will say, 'Yes.' His nation will then be asked, 'Did he convey the Message to you?' They will say, 'No Warner came to us.' Then Allah will say (to Noah), 'Who will bear witness in your favor?' He will say, 'Muhammad and his followers. So they (i.e. Muslims) will testify that he conveyed the Message. And the Apostle (Muhammad) will be a witness over yourselves, and that is what is meant by the Statement of Allah "Thus We have made of you a just and the best nation that you may be witnesses over mankind and the Apostle (Muhammad) will be a witness over yourselves." (Surah Baqarah 2 Verse 143)


Surah Imran: 3 Verses 81 and 82; Allah took the covenant from all the previous prophets and messengers, that if any of them finds Muhammad to arrive in his time, such a Messenger and or a prophet would support and give aid to Messenger and prophet Muhammad.


Surah Saffa: 61 Verse 6; Jesus spoke about the coming of a mrssenger whose name is Ahmad. Ahmad is one of the names of Prophet Muhammad (as).
samba123 (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #42 on: July 23, 2008, 11:03 AM »

Quote from: Cayon on July 23, 2008, 04:02 AM
Geez, so this is where this thread ended up. I was up and down in the Christian Section for two days looking for this thread.

Phew!!! Not even a note to say "hey Cayon, guess what? gyal we moved your thread and you can't do a damn thing about it" some moderators y'all be. oh well!

don't be so sentimental about your posted thread

don't be call the attention of all the people here because it has nothing do with us

take you time and educate yourself


peace   salam    shalom
Mustay (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #43 on: July 23, 2008, 11:12 AM »

Quote from: Cayon on July 23, 2008, 04:02 AM
Geez, so this is where this thread ended up.  I was up and down in the Christian Section  for two days looking for this thread.

Phew!!! Not even a note to say "hey Cayon, guess what? gyal we moved your thread and you can't do a damn thing about it" some moderators y'all be. oh well!

So what really is the purpose of this thread?

Quote from: davidylan on July 22, 2008, 03:05 PM
not necessary, criticism is allowed . . . infact i find out it forces me to search my bible deeper, to question why i hold certain beliefs and has more than strengthened my faith.


So who doesn't refer to the Qur'an as a reference here. Or Jayon that set up a topic to Seun and Mukina to stop criticisms is a muslim eh?

Quote from: jayon on July 19, 2008, 02:13 PM
Angry Angry@mukina and seun ,  please close down thread thats criticise men of God and shut down criticism on jesus or rather create our own section for us because the way this non-christian are behaving is bad, its un heard off and am highly dissapointed the ways this Non-christian are treating our fellow christians with raw criticism and u are all watching ,please close  down un-useful thread , thnxs


This is just pure waste of time
tpia
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #44 on: July 23, 2008, 02:45 PM »

Quote from: Cayon on July 23, 2008, 04:02 AM
Geez, so this is where this thread ended up. I was up and down in the Christian Section for two days looking for this thread.

Phew!!! Not even a note to say "hey Cayon, guess what? gyal we moved your thread and you can't do a damn thing about it" some moderators y'all be. oh well!

that's the key to understanding why the Mus'lim section is so quiet. Cool
davidylan (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #45 on: July 23, 2008, 05:32 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on July 23, 2008, 05:03 AM
@Davidylan: Please read all of my presentations, below. Get yourself a referenced copy, the Qur'an.  English text is OK.
Surah Baqarah 2 Verse 129; Anabi Ibrahiim prayer for the coming of Muhammad (AS).

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Allah's Apostle said, "Noah will be called on the Day of Resurrection and he will say, 'Labbaik and Sa'daik, O my Lord!' Allah will say, 'Did you convey the Message?' Noah will say, 'Yes.' His nation will then be asked, 'Did he convey the Message to you?' They will say, 'No Warner came to us.' Then Allah will say (to Noah), 'Who will bear witness in your favor?' He will say, 'Muhammad and his followers. So they (i.e. Muslims) will testify that he conveyed the Message. And the Apostle (Muhammad) will be a witness over yourselves, and that is what is meant by the Statement of Allah "Thus We have made of you a just and the best nation that you may be witnesses over mankind and the Apostle (Muhammad) will be a witness over yourselves." (Surah Baqarah 2 Verse 143)

Where is this Noah's message? please reference it WITHOUT looking in the bible.

Quote from: olabowale on July 23, 2008, 05:03 AM
Surah Imran: 3 Verses 81 and 82; Allah took the covenant from all the previous prophets and messengers, that if any of them finds Muhammad to arrive in his time, such a Messenger and or a prophet would support and give aid to Messenger and prophet Muhammad.

1. What is this covenant? Of what and to what people?
2. Where can we reference this covenant and who are these "previous prophets" IN THE QURAN?

Quote from: olabowale on July 23, 2008, 05:03 AM
Surah Saffa: 61 Verse 6; Jesus spoke about the coming of a mrssenger whose name is Ahmad. Ahmad is one of the names of Prophet Muhammad (as).

Why is no such verse recorded ANYWHERE ELSE?
olabowale (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #46 on: July 24, 2008, 03:30 PM »

@Davidylan:
Quote
Where is this Noah's message? Please reference it WITHOUT looking in the bible.

Read Surah Nuh, Ambiyya, etc. Just google Nuh in the Qur'an. There is even a chapter named Nuh. Stop being so lazy.


Quote
1. What is this covenant? Of what and to what people?
2. Where can we reference this covenant and who are these "previous prophets" IN THE QURAN?

The covenant is Laa ilaha ila llah. Is there any Lord God worthy of worship than 1 Lord God? All the prophets and messengers, starting from Adam to Jesus. 124,000 of them throughout human history.



Quote
Why is no such verse recorded ANYWHERE ELSE?

When you show me the word "Trinity," in the pages of your Bible, them I will show you, Trinity, Bible and other things about Jesus in the Qur'an that will point to what you don't have in the Bible. Go get me Trinity first. I know for sure you can't do it. Its impossible. I say it again, its impossible from the pages of your Bible.
May kelly (f)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #47 on: July 24, 2008, 04:23 PM »


    [b]The Qu'ran speaks of Jesus. This message is especially for Muslims who desire to know the truth.[/b]


JESUS/ISA (pbuh), the Mercy of God:
A Plea for San

(Assalaamu’laikum wa Rahmatulaahi wa Barakaatuh)

The tragedy of the recent week is still fresh in our minds (The Attack on the World Trade Center NY), and all throughout the world people must deal with the fear and uncertainty of the coming weeks. The stark reality is the specter of death itself, and that anyone of us could have been one of those innocent victims on an airplane, at the office, regardless of race, creed, or color, our children, even me.
My prayer as I write this article is for true reconciliation and true understanding to be established between Muslims, Jews, and Christians for the future days ahead. One can only hope that a paradigm transformation can be born out of this time which will bring forth God/Allah’s SWT mercy and loving compassion in a fresh way.

Peace be upon us as we seek sanity in the midst of insanity. Peace be upon us as we seek to know better the One true God/Allah who is closer than the vein in our neck. Peace be unto us as we seek to know the Unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace that passes all understanding and guards our hearts and minds.

God/Allah SWT desires that we seriously study these things, for He has the authority to put us in Heaven or sentence us to Hell, based on His justice. Though God/Allah SWT has inscribed the rule of Mercy as an attribute above all others being called Ar’ Rahmanir Rahim (the Most Merciful and Compassionate One), so He has warned us to watch and prepare at all times for the coming of death and the Kiamat (Day of Judgment). All men are appointed to die once and then face the Day in which we all must give an account to our Creator for the choices we have made or failed to make in our time on earth.

"Nay, Allah raised (rafa’a) him up (Jesus/Isa,pbuh) unto Himself; and Allah is exalted in Power, Wise.
"(Qu’ran (Al Nisa) 4:158).
According to both Muslims and Christians, Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is His "Sign unto men and a Mercy from us" Qu’ran 19 Maryam 19:21, …"whose Name is the Messiah, illustrious in this world and in the Hereafter." (Qu’ran 3 Al Imran 45), for Jesus/Isa is the UnCreated Word of God/Allah "…an Apostle (Rasul) of Allah, and His Word (Kalimatuhu), which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him (Ruhu minh)" (Qu’ran Al Nisa 4:171).
Why would Jesus/Isa (pbuh) alone be given by God/Allah SWT the title of Messiah (al-Masih), over eleven times in the Qu’ran? Why would Jesus/Isa (pbuh) alone then be given the title of His Word (Kalimatuhu)?
Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is further called "…a Word from Him (Kalimatim min hus)" (Qu’ran Ali Imran 3:45), and again "…a Word from Allah (Kalimatim minallaahi)" (Qu’ran Ali Imran 3:39).
"…(Jesus)Isa is Roh-ul-Lah (The Spirit of Allah), Rasullah (The Messenger of Allah) and Kalimatullah (the Word of Allah)." (Anas bin Malik hal: 72. Qs 4 An Nisaa’ 171).
 
 
As the Ahl al Kitab (People of the Book), Christians take every word God says seriously, and they have no need to exaggerate the greatness of the Messiah, for God/Allah SWT Himself lifts Jesus/Isa (pbuh) high above all other names!
The divine mission of Jesus/Isa (pbuh) has never ended, for Jesus/Isa is the UnCreated Word, the everLiving Messiah and Rasul, living Today. The Day of Judgment has been given into his hands alone by God/Allah SWT for ALL MANKIND!
When we pray, we ask God/Allah SWT, to "Show us the Straight Path" (Qu’ran 1 Al-Fatihah 6. Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is that Straight Path to be followed! "And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): Therefore have NO DOUBT about the (Hour) but follow ye Me: This is the Straight Way." (Qu’ran 43 Az Zukhrut 61).

In Surah 19:19, Jesus/Isa (pbuh) alone is called a Sinless One in all the Qu’ran!
He is called "holy" (zakiy-pure, sinless) son (Ghulam (youth or young man). Some Muslim scholars would argue that "zakiy ghulam" means that all infants born are sinless, hence attempting to resolve the problem of a "once in all history" birth of the Sinless Jesus, but this cannot hold up to a careful look. The word used here "Ghulam" meaning youth or young man is similar to that used in Surah 18:74 (a slain youth by Al Khidr), v.80 (rebellious youth), vs.82 (two orphans youth attaining their age of full strength to claim hidden treasure under the wall). To avoid confusion, another word "Tifl" meaning "little children or infants" as in Surah 22:5, 40:67 should have been used in Surah 19:19 if only those below the age of accountability is intended!
My friend, use the mind God/Allah SWT has given you! Why was Jesus/Isa (pbuh) protected from Satan? (Surah 3:36), and "Blessed (Mubarakan) wheresoever he be." (Surah 19:31)? Only Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is able to be in the Presence of God (Surah 4:158) after his ascension without being pulverized like the mountain when God appeared to Moses (Surah 7:143).

Truly, Moses (pbuh) pointed forward to Jesus/Isa as the UnCreated Word of God, the Messiah, the Sinless One, the everLiving One Today. Jesus/Isa (pbuh) was born of a virgin, "The Word became flesh" (Gospel/Injil John 1:14), and dwelt on earth as a once in all history Miracle working Man? Why?
Just as Moses (pbuh) pointed forward to Jesus/Isa (pbuh) in History, Muhammad (pbuh) pointed back in History to the "Center of All History and Judgment on All Mankind", for Muhammad was supposed to be only a Warner (Nazir), to Seal the Truth that Jesus/Isa is the Messiah, the UnCreated Word of God!
Jesus/Isa (pbuh) was sent by God/Allah SWT not just to the Jewish people, but rather to the Entire World in every Age of Mankind, for he is the Judge!
"All authority has been given to Me (Jesus/Isa) in heaven and on the earth, GO, therefore and make disciples of ALL NATIONS (ethnos/tribes and peoples including Arabs), baptizing them in the name of the Father (God/Allah SWT), the Son (the Kalimatuhu,UnCreated Word of God born Sinless of a virgin), and the Holy Spirit (Ruhuminh), teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatever I have commanded you, and behold, I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS, even to the end of the age." (Gospel/Injil, Matthew 28: 18-20).

God/Allah’s Word is ETERNAL! He has an Eternal Plan for the Ages, "…that in the ages to come, He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us through Jesus/Isa, the Messiah, …for God, who is rich in MERCY, made us alive with the Messiah, even when we were dead in sin, it is by grace you have been saved and God/Allah raised us up with the Messiah, and seated us with him in Heavenly Realms (present tense) in Jesus the Messiah." (Injil/Ephesians 2:4-7).
Therefore, since Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is more than just a Prophet, but rather the Eternal UnCreated Word of God/Allah SWT, his Position and Authority is Eternal as well! In the Taruat/Old Testament, the book of Isaiah (pbuh), we find the prophecy of Jesus/Isa (pbuh) written hundreds of years before both the Injil and the Qu’ran saying,
"Therefore, the Lord Himself shall give you a Sign, BEHOLD, A VIRGIN SHALL CONCEIVE AND BEAR A SON, AND SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL (meaning God/Allah SWT with us). (Taruat/ Isaiah 7:14). Then in the following chapters it speaks of this son saying, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace, of the increase of his government and peace there shall be NO END!" (Taruat/ Isaiah 9:6,7).
 
 
 
Think of the implications of what the Word of God/Allah says, the Government that Jesus/Isa (pbuh) MUST increase and never, never, never, never, End.
In the Qu’ran, are you asked to OBEY any other than God/Allah SWT? To the One we OBEY, then He is Lord! In the Qu’ran, Jesus/Isa (pbuh) says, "(I have come to you) To attest the Law (Taruat) which was before me, and to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from the Lord, SO FEAR GOD/ALLAH and OBEY ME!" (Surah 3:50).
In Truth, who is the Last Prophet? If Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is the Eternal UnCreated Word of God, living Forever speaking for God/Allah, Judging in the Judgment upon ALL MANKIND, both Christian and Muslim, chronologically, who is Last?
You must have the courage to answer this between you and God/Allah SWT.
Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is not the forerunner preparing the way for Islam, for he is the UnCreated Word of God, "Jesus Christ (the Messiah, Anointed One), is the same yesterday, and today, and forever." (Injil/ Hebrews 13:Cool.
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: O Children of Israel I am the Apostle of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came/Taraut/Old Testament) before me, and giving glad tidings of an Apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad" (Qu’ran, Surah 61:6).
 
 
 
Jesus/Isa (pbuh) was talking to Israelites in the context of Surah 61:6 of the coming Rasul named Ahmad who will also be sent to the Israelites. There is NO mention of the Ishmaelites, Arabs or Quraishites in Surah 61:6….AN ISRAELITE RASUL IS ANTICIPATED! The name Ahmad and not Muhammad was given. The meaning of both names are different and also antithetical-Ahmad means "one who gives praise" and Muhammad means "one who receives praise or praiseworthy"! According to Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan and Dr. Muhammad Taqi ud Din Al-Hilali, The Noble Quran, pg. 790, "the second name of Muhammad and it (Ahmad) literally meaning "One who praises Allah more than others."
Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 6, pg. 488 states Surah 61:6 is a variant reading and the name "Ahmad or "Muhammad" was not stipulated but ONLY AN UNNAMED PROPHET was given: "O Children of Israel, I am God’s Messenger to you and I announce to you a prophet whose community will be the last community and by which God will put the seal of the prophets and messengers".
This prophecy is apparently by the Muslim scholars own admission not a clear Sign (Ayat) of God/Allah SWT. This is not consistent with the claim in Surah 2:1, "This is the Book in its guidance, sure and without doubt, to those who fear Allah."
Therefore, who is Jesus/Isa (pbuh) speaking of in Surah 61:6? Perhaps, the Apostle Paul! This Israelite terrorist of the Christians had a personal revelation of Jesus, who commissioned him to take the everlasting Gospel to ALL NATIONS!
First, the Apostle Paul went to his fellow Jews, and then later was directed to go to the unbelievers. Paul faithfully preached to all the Greek, Roman and ARAB world! Yes, turn to the Injil, New Testament in Galatians 1: 13-17 and see!
"For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into ARABIA and later returned to Damascus."(Injil/ Galatians 1:13-17), see also Injil/Acts 9:1-31, 21:40-22:1-21.

Paul the Apostle was fluent in Aramaic and was said to spend up to 12 years in Arabia teaching about Jesus/Isa (pbuh) and warning people to turn to God from darkness, so its seems strange to see it said in the Qu’ran of Muhammad (pbuh),
"To give warning to a people to whom No Warner (Nazir) had come before thee." (Qu’ran Surah 28:46 (32:3). Is it not true that there were many Christians throughout the Middle East by the time of Muhammad (pbuh)?
Some may try to dismiss everything by saying the Injil (New Testament), Zabur, (Psalms), and Taurat (Old Testament) are all corrupted by men, yet they are truly Ignorant . The Qu’ran teaches the Bible is the Word of God/Allah SWT and can never be corrupted, changed or altered!
The Qu’ran says, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was Guidance, and Light and Confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a Guidance and an admonition to those who fear God. Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein." (Surah 5:46-47).
", No change can there be in the Words of God." (Surah 10:65).
"…there is None that can alter the Words (and decrees) of God." (Surah 6:34).
 
 
 
Baizawi says on this verse, "There is no altering His sayings, and there is no breach of His promises." Therefore, many stand quilty before God/Allah on the Day of Judgment for rejecting the truth of their own Books, and will be labeled as without religion (kafirs). Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is the Eternally Living Prophet, yes, much more than a Prophet, the Eternal Word of God/Allah, therefore, his Word is UnChanging and Authoritative yesterday, today and forever speaking to every dispute God/Allah’s SWT divine answers!
"Such (was/is) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of Truth, about which they (vainly) dispute." (Qu’ran 19 Maryam 34).
"Laa mahdiyan illa Isabnu Maryam" "There is no Imam Mahdi (Fully Guided Intercessor) except Jesus the Son of Mary." (Hadiths Ibnu Majah)
 
 
 
Do you honor Jesus/Isa (pbuh) as "God/Allah’s Word" (Qu’ran 4 An Nisa 171), and "a Sign for all Peoples"? (Qu’ran 21 Al Aanbiyaa 91). Do you wish to honor this one who is "nearest to Allah" both now and in the hereafter? (Qu’ran 3 Aali Imram 45). God/Allah SWT is the Protector of His Word and He will protect you as well if you trust in Him today through the name of Jesus/Isa!
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (Injil/ Acts 4:12).
First, do you believe? "And this is his command: to believe in the name of his son, Jesus the Messiah(Christ), and to love one another as he commanded us." (Injil/ I John 3:23-24) "Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them."(vs. 24).
"For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." (Injil/ Romans 10:10).
 
 
 
The prayer of Muhammad (pbuh) before his death: "Oh God, forgive me, have mercy upon me and contact me to the Most High Friend." (Hadiths Shahih Bukari 1573). Then he lifted up his hand saying, "The Most High Friend.", then his hand laid down and he passed away. (Bukari 1574).
Who is this Most High Friend, Muhammad (pbuh) called upon at his death? "I am closer to Jesus the son of Mary in this earth and heaven." (Hadiths Shahih Bukari 1501). Yes, the Most High Friend whom Muhammad called upon in his last moments was Jesus/Isa (pbuh)!
I plead with you today in a world that has lost much of its sanity to consider this:
It is not an accident that your eyes have found this article, God/Allah has directed you to look at this today!
"Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts, as you did in the rebellion." (Injil/ Hebrews 3:15).
Secondly, I plead with you by the Mercy of God, to repent and change the direction you have been going, admit the wrong thinking and doing of your life, fear God/Allah SWT, and Obey Jesus/Isa (pbuh)!
"God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble, Submit yourselves then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and He will come near to you. Wash your hands you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will lift you up." (Injil/ James 4:7-10).
Real change of heart leads to clear change of actions. Our motive for doing what is right cannot be just based on good works, its deeper, our motive is gratitude. (6)
"So Peace is on me the day I (Jesus) was born, the day that I die, and the day I shall be raised up to Life (again)" (Qu’ran 19 Maryam 33).
"Behold! God said: "O Jesus! Will take thee and raise thee to myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection…" (Qu’ran 3 Aali Imraan 55).
"That they (unbelieving Jews) said (in boast) "We killed (qatal)( al Masih Isa) Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah," but they killed him not (wa maa qataluuhu), nor crucified him (wa maa salabuuhu), but so it was to appear to them (wa laakin shubbiha lahum), and those who differ therein are full of doubts (Shakk) with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for a surety-They killed him not (wa maa qataluuhu yaqiina)." (Qu’ran Surah 4:157).
 
 
 
Thirdly, Jesus/Isa (pbuh) came to earth as a sinless child for One Divine Purpose, to fulfill prophecy and SUBMIT TO GOD willingly His life as a Sacrifice for the sin of Mankind Once and for all time, so that all Mankind can be brought into a true relationship with God/Allah SWT as a "Sign to ALL PEOPLES".
Though the Jews might have mockingly boasted that they killed Jesus/Isa (pbuh), in truth, they did not, for they only instigated the Romans to actually crucify him.  The Roman soldiers were experts at the torture of crucifying people. If they failed to execute the person, especially the right person, the penalty was that they would die for the failure! They always finished the job by thrusting a spear through the victims side to pierce their heart. Secular historians verify that there was no controversy about the death of Jesus/Isa (pbuh). (Injil/ see John 18 & Matthew 27:64). (Josephus/Tacitus) His enemies admit his death. Will you?
The Ignorant have veiled the truth of the death/burial and resurrection of Jesus/Isa (pbuh), by classifying it as a mutashahihat verse, i.e. "a verse in which it is something known only to Allah". The Injil/Gospel (New Testament) is very clear, and "cannot be changed" (Surah 10:65). No wonder, Muhammad had been told to consult the Christians whenever he was in doubt. "If thou (Muhammad) wert in doubt (shakk) as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book (Bible) from before thee." (Surah 10:94).
Study the Taraut (Old Testament) prophecies of the death of Jesus/Isa (pbuh), in Isaiah 50:4-10, 52:13-54:12, 61:1-11, the Zabur, Psalms 22:1-31, 34:20, 69:21, Zechariah 12:10-13:1, and compare them to the events in the Gospel/Injil/ (New Testament). These detailed prophecies were made hundreds of years before their fulfillment, and the fact that they were fulfilled in detail shows God/Allah’s SWT miraculous Sign for All Peoples!
The clear Signs of the Most High Friend (Jesus/Isa (pbuh), reveal the Siratul Mustaqiim (Straight Way) clearly for all mankind to follow.
"To Jesus, son of Mary we gave Clear Signs and strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit…Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error…" (Qu’ran 2 Al Baqarah 253, 256).

Perhaps in religion, we have followed the traditional ways of man more than the miraculous ways of God/Allah SWT. Those who reject other ways so as to obey the clear signs of Jesus/Isa (pbuh) are following the gracious guidance of God/Allah SWT. They are always prepared for death and the Kiamat. They have deep assurance of entering Heaven because they take refuge in the pure Holiness of the Most High Friend. Do you wish to have this assurance? Do you wish to be free from guilt because you have decided not to rely on human guidance, or to depend on the limited goodness of your own deeds?
"…whoever…believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy Hand-hold that never breaks." (Qu’ran 2 Al Baqarah 256).
This famous Ayat ul Kursi is clear when we look at ayat 253: We have security when we believe in the Clear Signs of Isa (Jesus) (pbuh) and the Prophets:
As Roh-ul-Lah, Jesus/Isa (pbuh) is the untainted UnCreated Word, without any form of impurity. Only in his holiness can mankind take His Handhold and make contact with God/Allah SWT, the Holy One, Spirit to spirit. As Roh-ul-Lah, He touches the sick with compassion and the healing power of God/Allah SWT.
In order to create true Love, God/Allah SWT created true Choice, one cannot have one without the other. Yet, once you choose to risk all and submit to Him through the divine Way He provided by Jesus/Isa (pbuh) death, burial, and resurrection. He promises to Raise You to the NEW Life free from sins torment, with power to overcome any test by His strengthening Spirit, and His faithful promise to Hold you Most securely forever as you walk faithfully with Him!
"My sheep listen to my (Jesus/Isa) voice; I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given then to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one." (Injil/ John 10:27-30).
Through life and death, we can have this lasting Peace if we believe in the miracle (muzzizah) Sign of God/Allah SWT Ta’ala about life and death.
In Surah Al Imran, ayat 55, Allah SWT, the Owner of the Day of Judgment, took back (the life of) Jesus/Isa, raised him back to Himself.
God/Allah SWT clears Isa (pbuh) of all charges, and rewards highly those who have Faith in the Korban of Isa (pbuh). Inshah Allah, When we take refuge in the Korban sacrifice of Jesus/Isa (pbuh), God/Allah SWT clears us and miraculously raises us to Heavenly places with Him. Al Hamdu’illah!
Can you cry out in the same way as others to our Most High Friend?
Pray now saying:
"Allahumma" (O God/Allah),
"Astafirullah" (forgive my sins) I reject all other ways to save myself and I trust Your Korban Sign in Jesus/Isa (pbuh) to save me on the Kiamat. I receive only your Way. Thank you for your precious Mercy to me. Amin
Jesus/Isa (pbuh) predicted the complete destruction of the Jewish Temple in AD 70, forever setting aside true Old Testament Judaism (only Zionism exists today).

In the Injil/Acts 2:11, when the Gospel of Salvation in Jesus/Isa (pbuh) was preached miraculously in the native tongue of every nation present, (including Arabs), they believed as you do now, and asked the question, what shall we do?
The Apostle Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off---for all whom the Lord our God will call. With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." (Injil/ Acts 2:38-40). It says the same day 3000 people accepted the message and were baptized and many of them probably became the first Arab Christians.
God/Allah can save anyone, even the worst terrorist like Saul, became the Apostle Paul, saying, "Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief…I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners Christ Jesus/Isa (pbuh) might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life."(Injil/ I Timothy 2:12-17).
God/Allah is calling All to Repentance, Muslims, Christians, Jews, and UnBelievers (especially who think they rule the world from the international Oil Company Offices) to a Worldwide Repentance and Reconciliation through Jesus/Isa (pbuh)!
Yes, God/Allah SWT is calling forth His Judgment upon all those who say they believe in the One True God, and then live like He doesn’t exist! He desires His faithful to honor Him now more than ever. Why? He wishes the UNBELIEVER to see the Prince of Peace rules in the hearts of men today, and that His glory can cover and change the earth just as the oceans He made.
I plead for Sanity in a World Insane, I plead for True Change in a Rebellious Day!
I plead for you to seek and turn to the Prince of Peace, Jesus/Isa (pbuh).
If you wish to read a simple guide to God/Allah’s Toriqabondi (baptism) for new believers, please let us know of your decision to be complete in Isa Al Masih (Jesus the Messiah).




May God/Allah SWT receive all the Glory!)
 

 
 
 
May kelly (f)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #48 on: July 24, 2008, 04:27 PM »

The Mystery of the "Sinless" Son

Buddha could not correct this, Muhammad could not correct this, no ideology or philosophy could correct this, only one name under heaven could correct this . . . Jesus!

"And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be," (Surah 19:31).

"Neither is there salvation in any other for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be save" (Acts/Injil 4:12).

Let us first compare what is known about Jesus and what is know about Muhammad.

Jesus                                                      Muhammad
His name means                             His name means "praised
"Savior" - Isaiah 63:8                     one." Also "Al-Amin,"
Matthew 1:20-23 also,                   trustworthy
"Immanuel" --"God is             
with us!"

Born of a virgin, Mary                     Born of Ammiah
No earthly Father,                          Abd Allah was his father
According to Bible and
  Quran.

Born about 4 B.C. in                        Born A.D. 570 in Mecca
Bethlehem, Israel

Raised by Mary, his                        Raised by his mother,
mother and Joseph, his                   Hailima the nurse, then
adopted father.                                his uncle and grandfather.

Labored as a local                          Started as a shepherd then
carpenter in city of                           became a camel caravan
Nazareth, Israel.                              leader to Syria.

Spoke in Hebrew,                           Spoke only Arabic.
Aramaic and probably
Greek.

Was literate; wrote no                      Was literate; wrote the
Books.                                               the Quran.

Attracted multitudes by                     Attracted multitudes by
his miracles and teachings.              by his teaching and the sword.

Had to move to the city                     Had to move to Medina because
of Capernaum because of               of rejection by his townspeople.
rejection by his towns-
people.

Was never married.                           Married to fifteen wives.

Lived a sinless life,                          Lived no sinless life, prayed according to both according to Bible              the Bible and the Quran often for forgiveness.
                                                          and Quran.   


Waged no physical war.                  Waged physical war by fighting
                                                          or leading in 66 battles.

Ordered the death of no one.          Ordered the death of many men
                                                          (some as old as 100 years) and
                                                           women (the first was a poetess).

Established a religion of                   Established a religion of
mercy even for                                   fear and the sword.
one's worst enemies.

Established an eternal                       Established an earthly empire.
"spiritual" kingdom.

Died by crucifixion in                          Died in Medina due to affects of
Jerusalem at age 33.                         pneumonia and poisoning at age 62.
               .

Arose the third day,                           Lingers still in his grave still
alive from the dead,                          awaiting the Day of Judgment,
emptying His tomb.                           according to the Quran.
Quran/Suras 355 and
Suras 1933) Bible
Matthew 27:27-28:10

Old Testament predicted                   No scripture predicted his coming.
his coming, His life, death,       
and raising again.
Isaiah 53:1-12

Mentioned in the Qu'ran                   Mentioned in the Qu'ran
(97) ninety-seven times.                    (25) twenty-five times.

1,500,000,000 claim to be               800,000,000 claim to be
his followers.                                      his followers.

Many of His followers                       Many of his followers (Muslims) are known   
(Christians) are known                     for their fanatic dedication to
for their dedication, love,                  war and vengeance, even
and caring for others,                       or killing other Muslims.
even for their enemies.   

About 5000 Greek and                       Four different Qu'ran
and Aramaic manuscripts                  traditions existed and instead
of the New Testament exist                of the variations preserved for
in whole or in part. The                        future comparison, all but one
best and most important of                was destroyed. The Hijazi
these date back to about                    tradition, the Kufan tradition,
A.D. 350.                                              the Basran tradition, and the
Comparison of                                    Syrian tradition from Ubayy
these show extreme care                    ibn Ka'b, one of the scribes of
given by scribes that they                    Muhammad. Uthman was
not be corrupted and the                     commissioned to destroy all but
original teachings faith-                       his edition.
fully preserved.       

Jesus taught that all                         Muhammad claimed to have
revelation from God                         added to the Revelation of God.
ended with Him.
(Bible/Romans 10:4
Revelation 22:18-19)
     
My friends, why do I bring these things up? It is because in all our short lives, the truth about God has the greatest influence on our lives, both in this life and in our eternity.

I believe that only God knows Muhammad's heart and motives. I believe God sent true Christians with uncorrupted Bibles to Muhammad, but I also believe Satan sent false Christians to Muhammad with corrupted texts and Muhammad chose to believe the false Christians teaching instead of the "true Christians." How sad! This is like believing one of today's cults that have sprung out of Christianity, instead of true Christianity.

Each of these cults have added another "revelation" in addition to the Bible and/or the Qu'ran saying their teacher or prophet was the final and true prophet. The ancient "Christian cults" who influenced Muhammad taught there was no trinity, that Jesus was not crucified nor did he die, and that Jesus was not anything but a glorified angel.

Oh, that Muhammad would have become a true believer in Jesus. How different his life would have been! He would have refused to go into war or to kill any of his enemies! He would have shown only love to Jews, idolaters and many of them would have left their former lives to follow the Jesus he loved.

Muhammad esteemed Jesus as the highest of all prophets and reported to have said, "I am most akin to the son of Mary among the whole of mankind," and "I am most close to Jesus, son of Mary, among the whole of mankind in this worldly life and the next life." (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 4, pp. 1260-1261).

If only Muhammed’s choice would have truly been to walk like Jesus! Yet you can! My prayer is that you consider the true Jesus of the Bible!

Even with the corrupt ideas the cults had shared, Muhammad still had some truths about Jesus. What are these in the Qu'ran?
    1.    Jesus was born of a virgin (Sura 19:16-35)
    2.    Jesus was the "Messiah" of the Old Testament prophecies. (Sura 4:171)
    3.    Jesus was a Spirit from God. (Sura 4:171)
    4.    Jesus was the "Word of God." (Sura 4:171)
    5.    Jesus was faultless and sinless. (Sura 19:19) This is the greatest "19" verse of the Qu'ran, and makes Jesus the greatest prophet, for:
            Adam sinned. (Sura 2:36, 7:22,23),
            Abraham sinned. (Sura 26:82),
            Moses sinned (Sura 28:15-16),
            Jonah sinned (Sura 17:142),
            David sinned (Sura 38:24-25),
            Muhammad sinned (Sura 47:19, 48:1-2, 33:36-38),
            yet Jesus did not sin!

"But we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are - yet without sin."

    6.    Jesus is illustrious in the world and the hereafter. (Sura 3:45)
    7.    Jesus was taken up to heaven by God. (Sura 4:158)
    8.    Jesus was to come back to earth for judgment (Sura 43:61) translation. Yusuf Ali and Mishkat IV pp. 78-80.

Why then was Jesus so hated by the Jewish religious leaders who wanted him dead?

First, Jesus healed a man who had not walked in 38 years and did this on the Sabbath day! He would forgive peoples’ sins. (Luke 7:49)

"So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. Jesus said to them, My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.’ For this reason the Jews tried to all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God." (John 5:16-18)

Surat al-Imran (The Family of Imran) 3:49 states of Jesus, "I healed him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave."

Again Jesus said, "I and my Father are One." The Jews took up stones to stone Him, and Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?" The Jews answered Him, "We stone you for no good work, but for blaspheming, because you, being a man, make yourself God." (John 10: 30-33)

Why would Jesus make such a claim? Jesus "knew no sin" (I Corinthians 5:21), Jesus "did not sin" (I Peter 2:22), Jesus "was without sin" (Hebrews 4:15), and in Jesus "is no sin" (I John 3:5). Since both the Bible and the Quran agree on this point, (Sura 19:19), can you see the need for the "sinless" One, Jesus, equal with God, to forgive your sins? Jesus is ready to do this, but first you must understand the most important mystery of mysteries!

Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." (John 5:24)

The mystery of God that is revealed next is the one of God’s own "Suffering" for his lost children of humanity; to set them back on the correct path again. Have you ever loved one intimately your heart, only to watch them go a wrong way? Then read on . .



The Mystery of the "Suffering" Father

"Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26). God, in all His mysterious fullness, is both righteous, holy, sinless, as well as loving, gracious and merciful.

In the beginning, man and woman in the Garden of Eden were also righteous, holy, sinless, and well as loving, gracious and merciful.

Though they were two people (male and female), God declared that they were "one flesh" i.e.; a unity (Genesis 2:24). The relationship they had was that of a Father and His children and God declared "it was very good" (Genesis 1:31).

But, to be made in God’s image does not mean Adam and Eve, the first man/woman was in any way EQUAL with the Godhead! They were still "created" beings, not "equal" to God!

Today science is able to "clone" a sheep, and perhaps in the future a man or a woman. Then that person will be "in the physical image" of the other person much like an "identical twin," yet are they equal to each other? No, each will have different decisions, experiences, and histories in different times. They are not equal.

It’s amazing that Jesus therefore claimed to be "eternally equal" with God, with the same history, the same thoughts, the same mind as God! Jesus was 100% man, born of a virgin and 100% sinless in the true image of God! Jesus claimed to God "in the flesh" and indeed lived a sinless life. Why?

Jesus was the only one who could eternally correct damage done by Adam and Eve. After Adam, all mankind lost the image of the Living God except for a few individuals. Many times throughout history, God considered destroying all mankind in His righteous justice! During the time of Noah, only (Cool eight people survived on the ark, because God was "grieved that he had made mankind" (Genesis 6:7). God saw that all humanity had become very wicked and every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil all the time (Genesis 6:5).

Ancient Chinese writing stands as a memorial to the great worldwide Flood of the Bible in the character "boat/ark" (Chuan). This character means: a vessel +(8)eight +mouth or people! The character for "flood" is "Hongshui" which means: "(Cool eight + united + earth = total + = flood!"   Later, God had promised never to send a flood to destroy the earth again, but His creation had grieved Him so much that He wanted to destroy all the people He had saved from Egyptian bondage during the time of Moses.

"I have seen these people," the Lord said to Moses, "and they are a stiff-necked people. Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation" (Exodus 32:10).

Moses interceded for the people, he didn’t leave God alone and in his prayers he reminded God of His promises to Abraham, Isaac and Israel (Exodus 21:13).

Mankind all through the Old Testament Torah and Prophets continued to get worse and worse and God would bring many judgments on the people. Yet, external punishment and judgment do not change the heart! Fear does not change the heart!

Repetitious religions, rituals and external habits of ordered behavior did not change the evil hearts of mankind! Was mankind lost forever, hopeless? Could mankind’s heart and life ever reflect the true image of God again? Could the wicked downward spiral ever be stopped for mankind? Yes!

God was allowing mankind’s out-of-control path to reach a "critical mass," a perfectly timed place in history to change the course of mankind by sending Jesus. He told "that generation," "And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:35- 36).

All the generations of mankind had been overall wicked people, yet Jesus’ generation would "fill up" the measure of evil accumulated since Adam and Eve sinned and set the world spiritually off course.

Adam, the first sinful man brought disharmony, imbalance and death to all mankind. Only a sinless man, Jesus could bring harmony, balance and life to all mankind.

This disobedience of sinful Adam and Eve to God’s command brought death to all creation, therefore the "sinless" obedience of Jesus could be the only act to rebalance creation. God needed to go one step further than "rebalancing" creation, for God desired to "correct" the problem of sin forever.

What good is it for a "sinless man" to come in obedience to rebalance all things, if only another "sinful man" knocks it out of balance again? A greater change and correction to all creation needed to take place. "For since death (spiritual, creation, death) came through a man, the resurrection of the dead (new creation, spiritual life) comes also through a man"
(I Corinthians 15:21).

The mystery of sinless obedience of Jesus, the "new man" of a restored creation was the degree of how extreme an obedience it would take to forever change all history. Ali substituted once for  Muhammed in hiding in his bed, one substitutes for another at the Haj, and in the Haj an animals Blood is sacrificed, Why? Why? God wants you to see His substitution!

Death was the haunting problem. Spiritual Death! That all mankind had veered off course on a path away from God. Holy, righteous Justice demanded Death to all Mankind.

From Adam to Jesus, all who died under the Old Testament died separated from God. Those righteous ones like Moses and Abraham went in death to a waiting place called "Paradise." The unrighteous to a waiting place called "Tarturus." They all awaited the day of history’s greatest change, but Death, this holy separation from God due to mankind’s sin, needed to be forever corrected. None could enter into God’s Presence after death except through one great event that would happen.

God’s heart was most grieved that mankind, His creation was not re-united with Him! The mystery of the "suffering Father" is the Father who poured His Life into His children only to be spurned and rejected by them because sin had blinded them to His love for them. The "sinful" children all desired to be "equal" in every way with God, to be their "own gods," to be worshipped as men "gods" and women "goddesses." They choose their own standards of what is "truth" and what is "false," killing those who did not agree with their "godhead" and honoring those who bowed to their image of values. Spiritual Idolatry!

Like people who rejected a great artist, yet sold and fought over his paintings, mankind rejected the Creator only to worship His creation, even themselves.

Muhammad was a created being, Buddha was a created being, and you and I are created beings. Muhammad is dead, Buddha is dead, Confucius is dead, and one day you and I will face death too! Men and women die every day who have only lived lives as "little gods." Rich or poor, if they did not live to honor the Father God, our One Creator, and looked to His plan and miracle to restore a right relationship, they remained in "Death" and His Heart suffers.

The Mystery of the Most Extreme Miracle/Sign Proof!
What is the most extreme miracle you know of? What is the most amazing "Sign" in all history God could do regardless of whether people accepted it or not?

"We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false" (Sura 17:59).

Regardless of whether mankind accepts miracles or not, God has a purpose in bringing forth miracles. It is proof to those who desire to return to unity with God and His Plan for His creation.

Jesus was born of a virgin. A miracle! Jesus was a "sinless, faultless man," a miracle!

In the Surat av Ma’idah (The Table Spread) 5:1-10, we read, "When Allah saith, O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou speaketh unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scriptures and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission?"

To none other that "Isa/Jesus" has God given this power, this miracle to impart life, to bring forth life from non-life, to turn clay birds into live ones. Only God could do such a miracle.

Surat al-Imran (The Family of Imran) 3:49 states, "I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave."

In the Holy Injil, the Bible, Jesus raised the only son of a widow in the city of Nain, from the dead! (Luke7:11-17) "They were all filled with awe and praised God. 'A great prophet has appeared among us!’ they said. God has come to help his people!" Jesus healed multitudes of people, the lepers, the blind, the deaf, the demon possessed and insane, the lame and raised many from the dead. He turned water into wine, and even walked on water! Jesus’ word would calm the raging storm or fill an empty net over full with fish!

After Jesus would heal, he would forgive their sins, saying, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." The religious leaders of the Jews were furious at this, saying, "Who is this fellow who speaks in blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone!" (Luke 5:17-26)

Jesus spent much of his time with the "outcasts" of society. They asked him, "Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?" (Luke 5:30-31). These people were considered low and unclean, not worth Jesus’ time. Jesus replied, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance" (Luke 5:31-32). Jesus even raised a man who had been dead three days!

Yet of all these wonderful miracles, signs and proofs, it was not the "most extreme" miracle. Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of man be to this generation" (Luke 11:29-30).

What was this one special miracle beyond all miracles? Jonah was sent by God to speak to his enemies, to turn them back to God and away from a wicked life before God’s judgment fell on that nation. Jonah at first did not want to go to these people, his enemies, and fled the other way.

Yet God commanded a great fish (Jonah 1:17) to swallow Jonah and he lived inside the fish three days and three nights. When Jonah preached to the Ninevites, he was like a man alive from the dead, bleached white from the great fish’s stomach acid, and the entire nation heard his message and turned to God.

Jonah preached, "Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. Who knows? God may yet relent (For God had declared 40 days and the city would be destroyed) and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish" (Jonah 3:9).

Listen my friends, Jesus said "and now one greater than Jonah is here."

"Because your sins are so many, and your hostility so great, the prophet is considered a fool, the inspired man a maniac. The prophet, along with my God, is the watchman over Ephraim, yet snares await him on all his paths, and hostility in the house of his God." (Hosea 9:7-8)

The religious leaders could not deny the overwhelming good miracles Jesus did all the time. But they desired to keep what "power" and status they had. They wanted to continue being little "gods" and didn’t give glory to God as Jesus taught and did. Instead, they hated him more and accused him falsely.

"Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! Such was Jesus, a son of Mary, (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt." (Sura 3:55 and 19:33)

Jesus’ enemies decided to kill him by making false accusations against him to the government. Jesus did no wrong for He was "sinless." He only spoke the Truth to them which made them angry. He claimed to be equal to God, He claimed to forgive sins, He did miracles daily to help others.

If they killed him, He would be gone forever, no one would be able to raise him from the dead! Even those whom Jesus raised from the dead had only a "second chance" and would die later in their lives, they reasoned. No one could escape death, no one could live forever! Even the prophets who did miracles in the past had died, never to return. Moses, Elijah, and Elisha were all dead and no longer living on the earth.

So they had Jesus arrested and put on trial. They asked him, "Are you then the Son of God?" and Jesus replied, "You are right in saying I am." Then they said, "Why do we need any more testimony? We have heard it from his own lips." Finally Jesus was ridiculed, mocked, beaten, and killed with the oversight of the government soldiers of Rome (Luke 22:47-71).
This is confirmed in the Qu'ran despite the influence of the corrupted texts that influenced Muhammad in his writings. Jesus had to die according to the Qu'ran (Sura 4:59, 19:33; 3:55). If Jesus did not die on the cross, as the Bible clearly teaches, then WHEN did He die?

My friend remember, Jesus promised them He would do one miracle they would never forget ? Jesus promised that wicked, adulterous generation one sign, the sign of the prophet Jonah. "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth!" (Matthew 12:40).

Why? Why this one sign? This is the mystery of the most extreme miracle proof that God could show to mankind or do for all mankind!

Death, Burial for Three Days, and then . . . Eternal Resurrection! Never to die again! This was a first!

First, what did this greatest miracle do for all mankind? It reversed the effects of Adam’s sin and disharmony to all creation and opened the Way for all men and women who choose Jesus to exist in harmony with God once more! It set the course of creation straight again! Permanently! Man’s sinful nature has no more power to alter it again. Man still has choice, but cannot alter the great Plan of Redemptive History. He has a choice to live in the Plan or exist out of the Plan and Will of God. Only the "sinless man" could do this "greatest miracle;" Resurrection eternally!

Mankind can now and forever taste of the pure, holy, clean spiritual life meant for his creation, both now in this life and eternally in the glorified resurrection body He gives us after we faithfully honor Him in this physical body. All mankind from Adam until Jesus’ generation were cut off from this true spiritual life.

When Jesus shed His blood and died, a man’s "sinless blood" was shed for the first time in all creation! During those 3 days and 3 nights, Jesus preached to the "spirits in prison" in the heart of the earth (I Peter 3:18-19). "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men."

"What does he ascended’ mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens in order to fill the whole universe!" (Ephesians 4:8-10). Mankind who had died under the old age were judged, and Jesus led the Righteous by Faith into the very Presence of God out of the temporary "Paradise" of that age, and into a Eternal place of Holy Worship! No alcohol or sex in this most Holy Place, no need! God says, My Will on Earth as it is in Heaven!

The wicked awaited the rest of that "wicked generation" who were given an additional 40 years to turn as a nation of Old Testament Israel before it came to an historical End in the complete Destruction of the Temple, sacrificial system, priesthood and nationhood in A.D.70.

I speak this to all Muslims, Jewish peoples and Christians of our day; the resurrection of Jesus means a creation began at that time, a NEW CREATION, a new People, a New Priesthood, a New, Holy Nation, a One People belonging to God (I Peter 2:4-10). I look at the disharmony and death as the result of false teaching today in Israel on this matter and my heart breaks.

What did this greatest miracle show mankind? Jesus "died for sins once for all," all Chinese, all Arabs, all Europeans, all Americans, all ethnic groups and peoples in the world and in all generations-- the sinless for the sinful, to bring you to God (I Peter/Injil 3:18). This is why after the Resurrection, the disciple Thomas exclaimed "My Lord and my God" and Jesus accepted this Worship and said, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed, Blessed are those
Who have not seen and yet have believed!" (John/Injil 20:28-29).

This Great Design, Great Plan, Great Purpose to Honor the Creator is given to you this very moment, as your eyes follow these words and your mind ponders these ideas, and your fingers touch these pages. God, Shang Ti, The One True and Living God is asking you this moment to offer your spirit, body, mind, soul and heart as a "living sacrifice" to God by accepting the reality of the gift of what God has done for you!

If you are ready and believe in your heart these things, pray this prayer out loud to God, "Abba, God my Father, have mercy on me a sinner. I confess that Jesus is my only Lord and Savior! I believe with all my being and heart that God raised him from the dead and I humbly seek your saving grace as I submit my entire life to you. I call on the mystery of your Holy Name, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, to save my soul for now and eternally. I trust in you God and your promise to never be put to shame for this decision. Help me to stand in this pledge at all cost to honor you. Thank you for sending Jesus to die for me. Amen" (Romans/Injil 10:8-10).

What do you need to do next? Repent (confess your sins to God, change the direction of your life to live and honor Jesus) and be baptized (fully immersed/buried into water head to toe, then Raised out of the symbolic grave a New CREATION).

"We are buried with Jesus into death to your old manner of life, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." (Acts 2:38 and Romans 6:3-4).

Every one of you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit for the forgiveness of your sins, be immersed and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit! Eternal Life! The fullness of the Godhead will guide you as you obey daily and live according to the teachings of Jesus in the Bible, the Word of God. Read Colossians 2:6-4:6. Do it quickly!

To those who are now baptized followers of Jesus/Isa, prayer is now more than a daily ritual, it will be your moment to moment Joy! The Intimate Presence of God Himself will go with you in serving Jesus daily, by serving others in love, in sharing the life-changing meaning of the message of Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection. The final mystery of God will be revealed in you everyday of your life now.

May kelly (f)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #49 on: July 24, 2008, 04:28 PM »

@olabowale , print and file.
ayinba1 (f)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #50 on: July 24, 2008, 04:41 PM »

@Maykelly
Are you for real?
You really don't believe all that you just copied and pasted now, do you.
littleb (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #51 on: July 24, 2008, 04:58 PM »

@maykelly,
Just don't deceive anybody, you can just copy and paste information here with the hope is for people like you. can't you subject yourself to a natural being who want to clear the truth from flasehood, analyse each subject for debate and be a good plagiarizer. People's understandings have gone far from reading your stories as if you want to write another bible.
davidylan (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #52 on: July 24, 2008, 05:32 PM »

May Kelly that is just way too long.

Quote from: olabowale on July 24, 2008, 03:30 PM
@Davidylan:
Read Surah Nuh, Ambiyya, etc. Just google Nuh in the Qur'an. There is even a chapter named Nuh. Stop being so lazy.

There is a chapter of the cow and elephant . . . does it contain the message of a cow or elephant as Allah's messenger too? please succintly tell me in a nutshell what Noah's message was with references in the quran.

You hypocrite, you are very quick to quote from the bible . . . when it comes to the quran you start bleating about googling.

Quote from: olabowale on July 24, 2008, 03:30 PM
The covenant is Laa ilaha ila llah. Is there any Lord God worthy of worship than 1 Lord God? All the prophets and messengers, starting from Adam to Jesus. 124,000 of them throughout human history.

Do you really understand what a covenant is? I'm not sure you do, check a dictionary and answer that question again.

Quote from: olabowale on July 24, 2008, 03:30 PM
When you show me the word "Trinity," in the pages of your Bible, them I will show you, Trinity, Bible and other things about Jesus in the Qur'an that will point to what you don't have in the Bible. Go get me Trinity first. I know for sure you can't do it. Its impossible. I say it again, its impossible from the pages of your Bible.

Thou hypocrite, trinity is an english word and could not have existed in aramaic or greek 2000yrs ago. The concept it however describes is in the bible. Now answer my own question.
olabowale (m)
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #53 on: July 24, 2008, 06:26 PM »

@Davidylan:
Quote
There is a chapter of the cow and elephant . . . does it contain the message of a cow or elephant as Allah's messenger too? Please succintly tell me in a nutshell what Noah's message was with references in the quran.

The cow; In the Qur'an, we read that God destroy the worshipped cow (golden calf) of the Children of isreal. The whole surah is on them, how they suffered and finally victorious over the Egyptians. We see how they were favored by God for as long as he favored them. All of these the bible can easily say that they also have a similar story in it. What it can not say though, which the Qur'an contains is the miracle which Moses performed by it. By mere saying of it, reluctantly, the Children of Israel slaughtered a cow, touched a piece of it on the body of a dead man. This mn came alive and told his people the person who killed him.

The Elephant; God destroyed Abraha, from Ethiopia, who wanted to destroy the Kaaba. The army rode on elephants, the "Abraham tank," of its time. They thought that they will route the makkans and destroyed the kaaba, so  that their own structure, will now become the pligrimage center of the arabs and the whole region. Allah, the Almighty sent a flock of small birds, carrying nothing more that small specks of sand with their beaks. They drop these sands on these well organized army.


But when it dropped on them, it would have become baked  clays; flaming hot. As it touched their skin, it created a bursting effect. Like the todays bunker buster from the American military. You can say those birds were the raptors of its time. This Abraha army was defeated with complete defeat. It reminds me of the pharaoh defeat under Moses. The impossible made possible, for all to see. And the year of this event, is the same year of the birth of Muhammad! Now, the rest of your writing is not what I intend to respond to. You can do research.

Google "Tafsir ibn Kathir." You will be completely get a good education. The essence of the covenant with the prophets and messengers is Laa ilaha ilallah. Why? All prophet and messengers stood on this simple statement. Muhammad himself preached it. The prophets and messengers were told to support him, if they were alive whenever he begins his ministry. They said yes and the oath or covenant was simply that; their acknowledgement of Laa ilaha ilallah and their intended support without any reservation if they were alive when Muhammad begins.


They preached one part of it, while they were waiting. Any and all of them would have fulfilled the other part, if they were alive when Muhammad became a prophet/Messenger. You can therefore see how it is impossible for Jesus son of mary, who was given book and knowledge of the old books before him, along with wisdom, to have proclaimed that he was anything, except a slave/servant Prophet/messenger! And Nuh message was Laa ilaha ilallah! Should any message be bigger than that? Is this not the essence of the Supreme being, God Lord Almighty Who is One single LOrd God?
reindeer
Re: Can The Christian Section Be As Quiet As The Muslim Section?
« #54 on: July 31, 2008, 10:26 PM »

This religious sections never cease to remind me of my favorite cartoon
Tom and Jerry.
and the chase continues Grin