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chinani (f)
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I've recently been posting my opinions & reading about a very controversial word in Nigerian & West African pidgin. I've learned some things & rejected other things but the whole debate got me thinking about another word: Makwerekwere. This word is spoken in South Africa and is often used as a negative word for non-S.African (black) Africans. I learned this by reading Welcome to Our Hillbrow in college & from my South African professor (whom I love). My professor said the word has the same etymology as "barbarian" meaning it is used to indicate lowness of culture etc. True to my sense of humor I was amused by all of this & like the idea of being called Makwerekwere. So my question are as follows: (a)Is Makwerekwere still a negative word for non-S.African (black) Africans, specifically Nigerians? (b)Would you be offended to be referred to as Makwerekwere? (Not as a name sha but as "she's a foreigner" or summing?) When posting please entertain my questions! 
Also, if I was incorrect about the word origin let me know! |
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chinani (f)
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I guess it's only fair that I give my opinoin first: Well I'm not offended b/c I find it amusing (why, er, I don't know, my quirky sense of humor). . . . . .but my mind's always open to being offended.  Also as Gigitte so smartly said, groups in Africa often name each other on a "no harm, no foul" basis. The names often don't have a bit in it. http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-12835.64.html#msg428161 Gigitte, I'm not trying to speak for you.And isn't this like the Shaka Zulu effect? Doesn't Shaka mean something deragatory in Zulu but, through his strength, tenacity, and nose for power, he overcame his "low birth" to lead the Zulus against the Boers who were scared shitless. |
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shotta (m)
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i read an autobiography i think 2 years ago and it took olace during the 1960s or 70s
that was back when there was serious aparthie and the white people would call the blacks kafirs
i looked up the meaning in the dictionary and it said a really offensive term for black africans(those were the exact words)
i just want to know if there is anybody who knows the real meaning of this word if there is
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Drusilla (f)
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shotta,
I looked around and apparently kaffir means HEATHEN.
It seems to descend from the Arabic language.
Which as you know, whites always brought in Arabs and Lebanese and people like that to supervise all the slaves and workers.
This is how come that Nazi Gandi was in South Africa.
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chinani (f)
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Well in Arabic "kaffir" means "infidel" etc etc. And Arabs did not have to supervise slaves for white men. I was the Arabs who first used exclusively black African slaves. The white Europeans got the idea from them. This is how come that Nazi Gandhi was in South Africa.
What makes Gandhi a Nazi? |
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shotta (m)
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maybe hes talking about anothe ghandi cause the ghani I'm thinking of was suppose to be a man that didnt believe in violence
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Drusilla (f)
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There is only one Gandi.
Back in the 1960's all we knew about Gandi was that he was a man who believed in non-violence.
Even Martin Luther King would talk about Gandi.
However, now we know Gandi's history before he was in India.
He really hated the Blacks of South Africa.
He said that the Kaffirs deserved everything that happen to them but wanted to make sure that civilized Indians were treated differently.
He said the blacks know nothing but being naked and should be forced to work because they are so lazy.
Martin Luther King did not know the real Nazi Gandi, nobody did until we began uncovering his real history.
Sure he was real good to Indian people but us Blacks.
Gandi hated us.
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Drusilla (f)
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Chinani,
Arabs knew the slave market in Africa better than whites.
So Arabs/Lebanese would be brought in by whites to supervise the Africans.
This is why Idi Amin had to put other races out of Uganda. He knew that these people are just as bad as the whites.
They participated in Black oppression all over Africa.
It's even true in America. The Black countries of the Carribean, still have leftover people from India/Lebanese, etc.
Well known historical fact.
These groups were no friend to the Blackman.
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Drusilla (f)
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Gandi Quote::::
Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness.
Gandi Beliefs::::
Gandhi has also been criticized by various historians and commentators for his attitudes regarding Hitler and Nazism. Gandhi apparently believed that Hitler's hatred could be transformed by the application of non-violent resistance. Gandhi has come under fire in particular for statements to the effect that the Jews would win God's love if they willingly went to their deaths as martyrs [25].
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shotta (m)
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i never knew any of this
can you tell me where you got all of this from
3 days on Nairaland and I'm already gaining so much knowledge
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Drusilla (f)
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Shotta, It's all over the web. Black people show it every where. I have even went to Indian sites and they talk about the fact of everybody knowing now the real Gandi. However here is a non-black website. This should take you directly to the Criticism section of Gandi's history. Where I just got the above from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#CriticismBy the way, they only show one of his quotes. I can show you many more, where he put down the Blackman. And even show you pictures of him in the South African Army, helping the whites to kill the Xhosa's. He used to beg that the whites allow the Indians to help them control the Blacks. |
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Drusilla (f)
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The Nazi Gandi actually won medals from the South African Army for being so good at killing the Blacks.
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chinani (f)
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@Drusilla
When Gandhi is defn a more provocative figure that I gave him credit. But I thought that "he once was blind, but then could see. . ." I am no longer sure. . .
The question of Arabs, Lebanese, Asians and South Asians is a complicated one. You & I are talking about different things & I am not contradicting you. But it should be noted that South Asians left for a different part of the British Empire to better their livesthey are immigrants - like Africans in America - and immigrants have rights too irregardless of the stupidity or racism of their forefathers. You mentioned the black/brown dichotomy in the Carribean Islands but those Islands have a black majority and the black majority must act for themselves before anyone comes to "save" them from people of South Asian extraction. But allow me to point out, that Blacks in the Carribean are the original inhabitants, so who are they to kick other people off the island? I'll all about liberty, equality & truth but there must be justice too.
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Drusilla (f)
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Chinani,
Gandi made the comments about Blacks when he was in South Africa.
He then went to India and made the comments about Jews will be loved by God if they willingly let Hitler kill them.
He died in 1948.
If he saw the light, he never saw it while he was alive.
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chinani (f)
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I'm reading that now it seems.
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WesleyanA (f)
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will you guys leave Ghandi alone and get back to the topic?.  George Orwell wrote this horrible essay about his "sins against humanity." I felt bad because i've always only heard good things about him. there are good and bad sides to everyone anyways. |
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Drusilla (f)
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Wes,
Yet there is a difference between people.
The idea that if you can find an Blackman who ever looked meanly at another Blackman, then therefore all the horrors of imperialism, capitalism of whites is justified is wrong thinking.
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WesleyanA (f)
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Ghandi was black?
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r_o_b_b_y (m)
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no ghandi was indian,and stayed in southafrica.
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gigitte (f)
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@chinani
thks for mentioning my post. well about this makwerekwere name, I'm not sure. if were simply a case of branding other africans as not being better than them, i most likely would be amused. after all, we know the RSA thinks its the absolute shit and the saviour of africa lol and i for one know naija is the absolute shit! (abeg, i dey proud of my kountry). however if it were a case of nigger/kaffir, i would be offended but I'm sure i would be unlikely to hear it said to my face.
maybe the RSA is just xenophobic lol
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gigitte (f)
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lol this seun
i for done tire for you o!
i meant to say the absolute S.H.I.T
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chinani (f)
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Thanks for the post Gigitte.  I don't think it means kaffir or niggerI'm actually not sure why anyone brought up those words. If y'all know the connection let me know but from what I gather Makwerekwere is word created by Black South Africans. |
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Hero (m)
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East-Indians calling a black person Kali ("black female" or "she who is black") or Kala ("black male" or "he who is black") is a slur. Some may take offence to it and say yes, it is derogative--- while others may just pass it off as no biggie, and say no, it's not derogitive. By the way, Kali and Kala are derivatives of the name of an Hindu warrior goddess named Kali, who was a deep black in complexion, and a blood thirsty killer, aka, ( VIOLENT AND BLACK), sounds like an familiar stereotype; and hence the connection to the Negro race. Some go as far as to depict her as the " Ultimate Reality and Source of Being", another depiction in which can transgress comparison with the Negro race, in that it is the original source of the human race or " being", scientifically speaking. THIS IS HER PICTURE:She was the goddess of Time; yet in her instance time was insinuous of death, as in, when you see her, you know it's TIME for someone to die. So in retrospect one could conclude that she was/is the Hindu version of the Grim Reaper, yet much more violent. So to conclude this lesson of the day; Kali/kala can be addressed in a positive and or negative way, and rightly taken as such as well, just like Oyibo/Oyinbo. |
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Madira
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Having read Chinani's description of the word 'Makwerekwere', I find it highly amusing that black South Africans would use such a word to describe their fellow Africans, especially after having been the victims of maltreatment by whites up until recently when black oppression elsewhere had all but fizzled out.
Such an attitude can only foster disunity amongst blacks which we really do not need at this time.
I think it quite funny that while other races are dissing blacks, blacks turn around and diss themselves. It is simply unacceptable.
Besides, South Africans need to remember the assistance and support given to them by African states during their struggle. We may not have been capable of launching a full scale military invasion to free them, but we did try with what limited resources we had at our disposal.
Considering pejorative terms from other races, it seems blacks to feel a need to accept such disrespect in order to appear inoffensive. Such an attitude is lethal to say the least. I have no desire to look for the positives in any pejorative term for I do not use them when addressing anyone of any race, and I certainly wouldn't stand for it from anyone at all.
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Drusilla (f)
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Madira,
I agree. Already in Ghana they had to run advertisements to teach the local black people not to call African Americans -- White people. To teach them to call them Sister or Brother.
They say some African Americans have burst into tears when they realized that the people thought they were white people.
So they were trying quick fast and in a hurry to change that so the tourists do not get upset.
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Idekeson (m)
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South African blacks calling us names? Wonders shall never end. I hardly remember they're out of their bondage.
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chinani (f)
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Are there any South Africans or peoples from South & S. Central Africa who can contribute.
I'D like to reiterate that my knowledge of this word is based off of a book & conversation w/ a Professor. I'm not trying to speak for anyone. And would like to hear all contributions on the matter.
Madira, very nice post. Thank you.
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gigitte (f)
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@chinani
i meant to say if makwerekwere was a nasty slur like kafir/nigger i would be offended
anyhow the word sef long, how u go take something that long and use am insult somebody lol
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chinani (f)
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anyhow the word sef long, how u go take something that long and use am insult somebody lol
LMAO! |
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howddy4 (f)
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@ chinani i actually read that book for my south african history class, i think the word is still used today n this u see how much they hate nigerian's so much?, that sucks  |
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smokie (m)
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I'm a black South African and I think I could shed some light on makwerekwere and it's origins. The word became famous in the mid-90s when a kwaito song describing xenophobia hit the airwaves, before that few people outside of Joburg knew what it meant.
Makwerekwere would most probably describe a Zimbabwean migrant, especially those who speak Shona. Later all black immigrants would simply be called makwerekwere, in Joburg the problem of xenophobia is bad because lots of crime is commited by illegal immigrants whether they be Zimbabwean, Mozambican, Tanzanian, Kenyan or Nigerian. Because of this South African have little sympathy for foreigners because they are seen as a problem.
But I say, if we can fix Africa we should not have this problem.
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chinani (f)
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Thanks for the knowledge Smokie! |
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