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babyosisi (f)
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witch hunt ke?
I asked a simple question?
Ask your dad,all these denials started rearing it's head after the Igbos lost the civil war,before then it was cool to be Igbo.
I don't know if you live here in the states In the early nineties when homosexuals were still in the closet and debates were going on about whether they were born so,had mental issues or were just plain weirdos,they hid and denied being homosexuals but later on it became kind of cool to say "I'm gay"especially with the celebrities coming out of the closet per minute.
I am simply saying that times do change,situations make people act the way they do,if I were in your position perhaps I may also go back many centuries to trace my origin to dissociate myself from a group that was humiliated and in the verge of being extinct by human calculations.
Do you know that Fulanis in Nigeria migrated from somewhere in Arabia,have lived with the Hausas for centuries and intermarried with them yet they never lost their language fufulde and their distinct culture despite all that.
How could the whole of Ukwani come from Benin and retain no bini names,language or culture and imbibed Igbo culture 100% just by association.
Some families may have come from there,it is not unusual but for a group to lose their identity completely and imbibe another is strange and sounds like a fairy tale.The yorubas in Benin republic and Brazil are still yorubas despite their locations.
Whenever you hear the name Mcdonald or Mc anything,the ancestry is definitely scottish,when you hear o'flagherty and Monaghan you know they are Irish,Choudry and Patel are Indians.
Yet you would like to convince me that Azuka is not Igbo and that your Chukwu does not mean God.It is just similar to Igbo or is Igboid.
Like I said before,you are entitled to your theories,but like an intelligent person,weigh it and tell me if you don't see the holes in that arguement.
Igbos know who they are.Perhaps Ukwanis do not deserve to be included as Igbos so be it.
If it makes you feel better and more superior,chukwu gozie gi.
Igbo kwenu
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babyosisi (f)
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Your dad's bias against Igbos is not uncommon,people hate or dislike a group of people for no reason.
And we all wonder why Nigeria is in the shape it's in.
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PTBNaija (f)
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Igbo people are united, example there is me. A product of parents from Anambra and Delta state  |
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Zahymaka (m)
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Ask your dad,all these denials started rearing it's head after the Igbos lost the civil war,before then it was cool to be Igbo. Which could be interpreted to mean all these people you're talking about decided to be Igbo when the civil war started. Well, my Dad was born before the civil war and he definitely knows what he's talking about. One thing my parents have always done with me is tell me the truth -- for example, the people from my hometown [Abbi] are notoriously drunkards and trouble makers [though not all]. If as you insist he knew about his so-called 'Igbo' heritage, I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to tell me. It's funny that you haven't studied a particular group, yet insist that you know a lot about them. I'll post some aspects of our culture here when I have the time -- I'D like to see how they relate to Igbo culture. For now, I've got lectures and I have to run. Like I said, I'll post more information when my Dad gives it. Perhaps Ukwanis do not deserve to be included as Igbos so be it. My dear, this may sound offensive but why do you suppose it's a privilege? Revel in your heritage and I will in mine -- to everyone, his group is the best. I am not biased towards Igbos -- some of my very best friends in real life and on this forum are Igbos. However, I steer clear of religious, political and tribal discourse because my opinions always tend to differ from most people. I'm going to stick this one out though. Great sparring babyosisi. I wish everyone'D debate as intelligently as this.  |
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babyosisi (f)
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from zahymaka
Which could be interpreted to mean all these people you're talking about decidedto be Igbo when the civil war started
Not at all.
when you gather up your facts about your ukwani culure,start another thread titled "we are not Igbos please"AND IF WE CARE,WE SHALL JOIN YOU THERE.
We are trying to foster unity on this thread not disunity.
There is another Igbo thread where people are simply saying where they were from and how proud they are to be Igbos,a delta Igbo guy responded and identified himself as such and then asked a question that should be heart breaking to any Igbo person.
He asked if he was welcome to say his greetings.
Why should such a question ever arise from an Igbo person?
We Igbos bear part of the blame for referring to Eastern Igbos as the real Igbos and the western and Rivers Igbos as circumferential Igbos.
What gives anyone the right to claim to be more Igbo than the other.
Our elders have failed us in this seed of disunity they had sown and now these so called peripheral Igbos claim to be from the moon we are struggling to include them
I'm sure we've all heard statements like yes he's Igbo but bendel Ibo or delta Ibo.
The other thing the delta Igbos prefer to be called Ibo,they think Igbo is too Igbotic.
Talk of brainwashing one to hate oneself when Bombay has changed to Mumbai,their original Hindu name before the coming of the colonial masters.
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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TO Zahumaka You are wellcome back to this thread brother, we hard a little arguement you got angry and I got angry, but I was gentle man enough to apologise but you did not, I would leave it for you to consider who cares about his brother more even while his brother claims he is not his brother, well I 'll leave it for you to judge [you are the judge], you are the one that knows who can sell his brother or mother for money, my only advice for you is to abjure being a stereo type. Really I 've not wasted my time setting up this thread, your coming back to this thread shows that deep down in your soul you are involved, and you know that you know that you are invoved, and you equaly know that every one knows that you know that you are invovlved, also you know that what you know and what you don't know are never at equlibrium, when it comes to this issue of identity, you surelly know more brother, and the eliear we sort out this issue the better it would be for us all as IGBO people. I promised not to post here again, but I must speak for everyone who talks of me being Igbo. I'm sorry the argument here is coming from my Dad who was around before the civil war as was his father, so no talk of being brainwashed. O fcourse, I couldn't put up a defence, but here's what he has to say. When he sends me more stuff, I shall post it here.
Azuka,
We are not Igbo people, and you are not an IGBO man. While the Ukwuani language is an Ibo dialect, this does not mean that we are IGBO people. Culturally and historically our ancestors migrated from Ancient Benin Kindom during a period of much internal crisis and hatred in the kingdom. Our people did not want to have anything to do with the Edo kingdom having escaped from the Oba’s control and influence. It was not only the Ukwuani people , but both Isoko’s and Urhobo’s.
We met the IGBO’s on the other side of the river Niger and traded with them since they had no kings and operated a form of Clanlike democracy. Due to cultural diffusion and inter-trading we imbibed there dialect over the centuries. Yes Ukwuani is an Ibo dialect, but culturally and in most of our traditions, social sanctions, religious worship, ideals and mode of life we are not Igbo people. From ancient time till now the Igbo man can sell his brother for money. We may be poor, but we are proud and have ideals that we cannot sacrifice for money. The Igboman is not bad, he is hardworking, but he can sell his mother for money. Do not ague with them, but do not enter into any money business with them. Every Nigerian speaks English, we know that we are not Britons.
The Itshekiri man understands Yoruba language, due to the lingual dialect, but he is not a Yoruba man.
There is a lingual understanding between the Okrika, kalabari and Izon languages but the kalabari and Okrika’s are not classed as Ijaws in Nigeria.
The Effik and Ibibio’s understand each other but the Ibibio’s are classed as a different tribe.
Every tribe in the Northern Nigeria speaks Hausa language, they they are not Hausa’s.
The Igala tribe in Kogi state speak a dialect of Yoruba language but they are not Yoruba’s.
The Ogba people(omoku is there major town) speak a dialect of the Ibo, they are in rivers state, there ancestors migrated from Benin, and they are called the OGBA people. You must have heard of the Obi of Ogbaland.
All the Ibo speeking tribes that migrated from Benin have Kings that are called The OBI. Eg. Onitsha, Isele Ukwu, Aboh(in Ukwuani), Agbor etc.
Even the indigenous Onitsha man do not call himself an Igbo man because his ancestors came from Benin, culturally he does not sell his daughter for money in the name of marriage, despite being on the same side of the river Niger and the same state.
The Igbo man has never had king and will never have one( forget about the political kings that they are creating in other to get money from Federal Government).
The Jews, Arabs, Palestinian, Sirians and most of the middle east in the time of Jesus understood each other(that was why Jesus recognized the Samaritan woman through her dialect) but had different dialects.
We are therefore not the only tribe in Nigeria that speaks a dialect of a major language that is tribally and culturally different.
Language alone does not prove differences of tribes. The mode of life, customs and traditions, religion and ideals of life all go to show who we are.
I shall write more on this later.
Every Igbo man, wants everybody to be Igbo since there dream of a Biafra failed. They have always laid claim to even areas of land in Nigeria that there ancestors had no business with.
Regards,
Your daddy
From: 'Me'
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 7:56 AM
To: 'Daddy'
Subject: Question
Hello Daddy,
I was cornered by someone who insisted that I was wrong in saying I was Ukwuani not Igbo. He had lots of documentation and all to prove it and I couldn't put up a good defense.
While I do not believe I am Igbo, I want to have an idea of my ethnicity. I do not know how to prove I'm from a different area.
You also promised us that you were going to tell us our history -- the history of our family -- someday. I don't know if that someday is now, but I am curious enough to wish it was now.
When you have time could you tell me about these things?
Azuka
You coming here to claim that you guys are from benin, don't you think is a very shameful thing [please don't get angry we are only trying to educate ourselves for the better], cause am afraid bros you are eazily irascible some times, be gentle be gentle. I have a lot of friends from Agbor, Ukwani, Ikwerre and benin, when my benin friends refer to me they refer to me as OVIGBO, when they refer to my agbor and ukwani friends they refer to them as OVIGBO, when they refer to my Ikwerre friends they refer to them as OVIGBO, when they refer to there own benin friends they refer to them as OVIEDO, I 've never seen a benin man refering to a Delta IBO or Ikwerre person as OVIEDO, we should be ashmed of what we say sometimes. You made a very good presentation of what you father told you, that's very fantastic infact mavellous, but my grand father told me that his great grand father told him that the IBO people from Delta migrated from awka, and so equally somebody's father would have told him something else, while we are not denying the influence of trade relationship between the benin empire and the Onitsha area, in the aerlly ages atleast that what's history said and there is nothing else to prove it, the Obi thing you said is crass, the word Obi is an Igbo word, is not a Benin word and here again there is nothing to show any oustanding benin influence, so is mendacious to claim that Ukwani people are from Benin We all know that most of our history's were not documented in the past, hence the need for an aplication of common sense, Is lachrymose and nonsensical to claim that the Delta IBO'S are from benin. look at it from a common sense point of veiw; No 1, If all the block of IBO people from Delta and Ikwerre are from benin they woud have been speaking in benin language No 2, If IBO language was inposed on the Block of Ibo people from Delta and Ikwerre while they are benin, they would have been speaking in both IGBO language and BENIN language No 3, IBO language is the only language of the Ikwerre and the IBO'S from Delta You sighted an example with English language, aww! that's not a very credible example, and you know that you know is not a credible example, infact that example is very bankrupt even to the level of nimiecy, damn! right we are not English people, we know that we know we are not English, and we know that everbody know's we are not English, we even know that the Eglish know's we are not English. Is very clear that English was inposed on all of us that's why every one of us speak's atleast two languages[english and our local dialet], even some of our old people speak only there local dialet [and we all know that all the Delta IBO and Ikwerre old people that falls withen this group speaks IBO as there only local dialect], and that's a very gigarntic prove that English was inposed on us, this does not look in the least like what we have in IKwerre or rather can we use this to describe Issues of the Delta Ibos. You made mention of Onitsha people, hold it right there, the authur of this thread NINETOFIVE [me], am from Onitsha, if you checked this thread backwards you would have seen I 've made mention of it before, let me tell you to your face right now, AM AN IGBO MAN , AM AN IGBO MAN, AM FROM ONITSHA AND AM A PROUD IGBO SON, |
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babyosisi (f)
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nine to five gwa ya okwu(tell him ).
an oviedo that is not recognised by fellow oviedos.
Ke du nu ihe a g'eme this people eh?
The thing na a confuse m honestly.
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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To babyosisi
Nwannem ra pu fa, agbasia oso agua mile, chukwu gozie gi, chukwu gozie ndigbo nine.
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Zahymaka (m)
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Now, the purpose of this is enlightenment, not a fight. I gave everything my Dad sent to me in the raw form even though I knew the 'selling' bit would be offensive. We're all educated so let's tackle this in an educated manner. I am not pretending to know where the Ukwuanis or any other group migrated from and it is only now as you can see that my father is doing his explanation. So far, I haven't taken sides with him or with you. Speaking of apologizing, I was never rude to you. You called lioness a market woman and told me: Yes you better stop posting on this thread, 'cause you are not intelligent, the truth is always bitter, accept defeat. Refusing to believe what you do does not make me stupid -- every belief is founded on some conviction. It is left for all of us to come forward in a non-agressive manner and debate peacefully. I decided to back out because I don't see myself being insulted for airing my views. Respect my opinion -- I respected yours -- and tell me why you think you disagree. Afterall, this is just a discussion. . . |
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Txlonghorn (m)
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@ Zahymaka and Ninetofive,
I wish you guys can just put this behind and move on. We all brothers and we here to learn from each other. And trust me I've learned so much from this thread
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babyosisi (f)
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market woman lol,I have not heard that expression in years.
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babyosisi (f)
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Zahymaka and anyone who cares click on this link of Igbo association of Southern California and scroll down under the heading 'member associations' Do you see Ikwerre association,anioma association or aboh in that group? Or they don't know their origin? give me a big break my brother. Tell daddy the younger folks know better http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/igbo/execofficers.html |
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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To txlonghorn @ Zahymaka and Ninetofive,
I wish you guys can just put this behind and move on. We all brothers and we here to learn from each other. And trust me I've learned so much from this thread
I think that is pretty much it, point taken. To babyosisi I think this link you posted would really help a lot of people, this problem existed for so long because there was no awareness on this very issue, thank you. |
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Zahymaka (m)
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To txlonghorn
I think that is pretty much it, point taken.
Shall we shake hands and be friends then? |
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ZuluNation (m)
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Shall we shake hands and be friends then?
Both of you should come to my Obi so we can break kola, drink fresh Palm wine and discuss the events of the day. |
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Zahymaka (m)
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I'm doing some research and would like people to join me. Forget quoting Wikipedia. I'm a Wikipedian and created the Delta-Ibo article and extended the one on Ukwuani, so it would be biased to do any quoting. Note that the origin of the Igbos differ as well. Perhaps we could peruse these links: - http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=90858 -- which shows that there's an Igbo group of languages and Ukwuani, Ikwerre and so on are related, which I have never disputed
- http://messageboard.biafranigeriaworld.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=1;t=001566 -- Pretty interesting, that's all I'll say.
- http://www.waado.org/UrhoboCulture/Names/Okoro/UrhoboPerspectives/Ekeh.html
- http://www.ndokwa.20m.com/ndokw/tour11.html
For your information, most of my information is gotten from the Google search Ukwuani Igbo. |
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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To Zahumaka,
Yeah lets discard being pugnacious, lets cogitate and relax our minds, while taking to account the funny side of the whole issue, bros when I saw that you fathers letter, this very statement [ Azuka we are not Igbo people and you are not an Igbo man ] made me laugh for over 30 minutes, Is like saying; Abiola we are not Yoruba's, I know it would be difficult for you, but try to see the funny side of it, and you will definitely come to agree with me that is all not worth it.
There is a point I would like to add, I just didn't want to encroach you yesterday, if you Analise the letter very deeply, you would notice that is a little purblind, please this is not a fulmination, the letter has only succeeded in falsely trying [ take note only trying ] to prove that the Ukwani people are refugees from Benin, which makes Ukwani an Igboland and the indigences non Igbo rendering your land revocable am surprised that people could really go to that extent to disassociate themselves from theselves, you are going to have to agree with me is not really something to be very proud about.
Why we are all trying to shed some light into this issue is because of this saying that goes; a mad fellow is not ashamed but only the relatives of the mad fellow bears the brunt of shame [ this is not directed to you, this is only a proverb or a figurative expression ], I will have to asseverate at this point, all the people concerned should leave these bete noire attitude and embrace there own people, Igbo kwenu.
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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to Zahumaka, Shall we shake hands and be friends then?
Yeah bro, the Ukwuani culture is a normal IGBO culture, Ukwuani people do Mmanwu and Odogwu, the samething is prevalent in most IGBO LAND. |
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babyosisi (f)
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nna a nine to five,I need a dictionary to read your mails can you use smaller words for simple folks like myself lol.
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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To Babyosisi,
Nne am sorry, point taken.
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babyosisi (f)
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an excerpt from a powerful speech by Ojukwu to Biafra in 1969.
Wasn't this almost prophetic to what we have today.
The Biafran struggle is, on another plane, a resistance to the Arab-Muslim expansionism which has menaced and ravaged the African continent for twelve centuries,
Our Biafran ancestors remained immune from the Islamic contagion. From the middle years of the last century Christianity was established in our land. In this way we came to be a predominantly Christian people. We came to stand out as a non-Muslim island in a raging Islamic sea. Throughout the period of the ill-fated Nigerian experiment, the Muslims hoped to infiltrate Biafra by peaceful means and quiet propaganda, but failed. Then the late Ahmadu Bello, the Sardauna of Sokoto tried, by political and economic blackmail and terrorism, to convert Biafrans settled in Northern Nigeria to Islam. His hope u as that these Biafrans of dispersion would then carry Islam to Biafra, and by so doing give the religion political control of the area. The crises which agitated the so-called independent Nigeria from 1962 gave these aggressive proselytizers the chance to try converting us by force.
It is now evident why the fanatic Arab-Muslim states like Algeria, Egypt and the Sudan have come out openly and massively to support and aid Nigeria in her present war of genocide against us. These states see militant Arabism as a powerful instrument for attaining power in the world. Biafra is one of the few African states untainted by Islam. Therefore, to militant Arabism, Biafra is a stumbling block to their plan for controlling the whole continent. This control is fast becoming manifest in the Organization of African Unity. On the question of the Middle East, the Sudanese crisis, in the war between Nigeria and Biafra, militant Arabism has succeeded in imposing its point of view through blackmail and bluster.
It has threatened African leaders and governments with inciting their muslim minorities to rebellion if the govern-ments adopted an independent line on these questions. In this way an O.A.U. that has not felt itself able to discuss the genocide in the Sudan and Biafra, an O A.U. that has again and again advertised its ineptitude as a peace maker, has rushed into open condemnation of Israel over the Middle East dispute Indeed, in recent times, by its performance, the O.A.U. might well be an organization of Arab unity.
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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an excerpt from a powerful speech by Ojukwu to Biafra in 1969.
Wasn't this almost prophetic to what we have today.
The Biafran struggle is, on another plane, a resistance to the Arab-Muslim expansionism which has menaced and ravaged the African continent for twelve centuries,
Our Biafran ancestors remained immune from the Islamic contagion. From the middle years of the last century Christianity was established in our land. In this way we came to be a predominantly Christian people. We came to stand out as a non-Muslim island in a raging Islamic sea. Throughout the period of the ill-fated Nigerian experiment, the Muslims hoped to infiltrate Biafra by peaceful means and quiet propaganda, but failed. Then the late Ahmadu Bello, the Sardauna of Sokoto tried, by political and economic blackmail and terrorism, to convert Biafrans settled in Northern Nigeria to Islam. His hope u as that these Biafrans of dispersion would then carry Islam to Biafra, and by so doing give the religion political control of the area. The crises which agitated the so-called independent Nigeria from 1962 gave these aggressive proselytizers the chance to try converting us by force.
It is now evident why the fanatic Arab-Muslim states like Algeria, Egypt and the Sudan have come out openly and massively to support and aid Nigeria in her present war of genocide against us. These states see militant Arabism as a powerful instrument for attaining power in the world. Biafra is one of the few African states untainted by Islam. Therefore, to militant Arabism, Biafra is a stumbling block to their plan for controlling the whole continent. This control is fast becoming manifest in the Organization of African Unity. On the question of the Middle East, the Sudanese crisis, in the war between Nigeria and Biafra, militant Arabism has succeeded in imposing its point of view through blackmail and bluster.
It has threatened African leaders and governments with inciting their muslim minorities to rebellion if the govern-ments adopted an independent line on these questions. In this way an O.A.U. that has not felt itself able to discuss the genocide in the Sudan and Biafra, an O A.U. that has again and again advertised its ineptitude as a peace maker, has rushed into open condemnation of Israel over the Middle East dispute Indeed, in recent times, by its performance, the O.A.U. might well be an organization of Arab unity.
Ojukwu is a genius, imagine in the sixties he has seen the future. |
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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To Zahumaka,
Do I take your silence, as a sort of acceptance.
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Zahymaka (m)
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To Zahumaka,
Do I take your silence, as a sort of acceptance.
It's Zahymaka. I just popped in to take a look. I'm working on multiple projects which all have deadlines between Monday and Wednesday. As my people would say, 'Mbiaka.' |
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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TO Zahumaka,
Odinma, I wish you best of luck.
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Genial (m)
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@Ninetofive It's Zahymaka. |
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NINETOFIVE (m)
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Igbo's must be one, Igbo kwenu.
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EastnEuSis (f)
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This thread is really very educative
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2fine4u (f)
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waoh! really? and i don't even read it, the long posts or rather essays scare me a little bit anytime i come here.
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tpia
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Very informative thread. As Chinani said, "Calling oneself Ikwerre ( or insert Delta Ibo) rather than Igbo might be the most Igbo thing to do!" I must say I don't think there's any other tribe in Nigeria that is so ambigious as regards the issue of who is or is not an Igbo. The very fierceness with which being "Igbo" is denied, seems a very " Igbo" trait.  I think a lot of this " confusion" ( no offence to anyone here) stems from the past- maybe the slave trade, Igbo social system ( eg Osu, etc), the civil war, and maybe many other factors. But a lot of tribes spend an inordinate amount of time denying being "Igbo", and a lot of "core Igbo" towns emphasize the fact that these other groups are not Igbo. The intensity of the denial suggests Igbo traits. However, it is best to let matters lie. A lot of Yoruba groups have been divided from mainstream Yoruba by politics- eg Kwara, Kogi, Dahomey. Maybe someday these tribes will also break off completely from the Yoruba as a whole. Many of the dialects found across Yorubaland are often unintelligible to speakers from different states.  |
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babyosisi (f)
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I hear you ma dear.
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Crownvilla (m)
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TO BABYOSISI:
I'm a Yoruba guy and have found this thread very informative and educational. If you don't mind, I'D like to ask you to throw some light on the following if you can:
Yoruba's have lived in present-day Benin republic and Togo, centuries before the whiteman came to Africa. Similarly, some Hausa and Kanuri people have villages and have lived in Niger republic before the arrival of Europeans on the scene. I beleive some Hausa people found themselves in Ghana after the scramble and partition by the European colonialists, likewise Fulanis are in many countries in West Africa. Now my question is about Ibo's, are they found in any other African nation as a result of the scramble and partition of Africa? Or are Ibo people only indigenous to Nigeria?
You informed input on this will be appreciated.
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