Does Christianity Support Immorality And Pacifism?

@Softee,

You know only too well that Islam is the bedrock of religious violence and war, even though not every muslim is bellicose. As far as the 'holy' Qur'an has stipulated that adherents of Muhammad and his religion should fight and kill perceived "infidels", then 'true' muslims who 'believe in Allah and the last Day' will do anything to get into their promised paradise with 72 virgins (as Gwaine has helped us to more clearly understand).

You contrast this with the spirit and teaching of Jesus Christ, and you'll find that muslim understanding of the peace proffered in Christianity is misconstrued for "pacifism". Jesus Himself foresaw the murderous zest of those who would claim that they follow His teachings and yet would go all out against those who are true Christians - from the dark ages when they were murdered by 'fellow' Romish priests. . . down through the ages until the arabian 'prophet' settled the matter once for all and made it a doctrine to murder Christians.

So, if we refuse to commit murder in the name of God, muslims will quickly turn to the Old Testament and say, 'there - Moses commanded you Christians to kill; and if you don't, then you're liars and disobeying your Lord!" I laugh whenever I read the desperations of such simpletons; because quite often they have this stereotypical notion that Moses was a Christian, and Jesus wanted to make Jews of everyone!

As far as Muhammad asked his followers to kill and murder people of other religions and beliefs, his followers have followed in his footsteps and are still doing so. Not to even mention what Muhammad did to atheists of his day!!

@Davidylan,
Another good point. The woman is not at all regarded in Islam as she only exists to serve the whims of the Quraish prophet. Some of the MALE terrorists have not bothered asking what type of virgins they would be rewarded with - whether Arab virgins, Caucasian harems, or Black beauties. If you bring up this point where they are, they'll consider it a crime punishable by more bombs and suicide missions. It's about time that people really seriously question the place of a woman in Islam. Muslims know very well that Muhammad had no respect for women, and that's why they'll pretend that a woman is appreciated in the religion of the Arab molester and pedophile.

You know it breaks my heart to see these kind of forums. I just feel like if only these muslims knew what being a Christian is about, if only they knew what Christ did for them, if only they felt the LOVE. But instead they follow a religion which consists of the cruel treatment of women, violence and freewill as long as it is for Allah.

Is it because muslims feel that fighting back is more realistic? But does that not conform to the world? So how is it that you can believe in paradise if your quran says you can conform to the world. Isn't Heaven a reward, a precious gift?

4get_Me, davidylan,

If male muslims get 72 virgins in their paradise, dosen't that make them still flesh? And everybody knows the flesh is evil, the thing that lusts + craves and feels pain, so does this mean that in this "paradise" there is still evil. I don't GET IT, SHED LIGHT PLEASE, CORRECT ME!!!

LOL

Thanks 4get_me, that was beautiful.

whew!!!! its getting hot in here

Muslims oh muslims,,,,,,there is a jew behind me,,,,,can abdul kill him?  Pathetic

See its soooo easy, u beat them in logic argument and warfare. All they know is fire for fire, see how all of a sudden they can't rebuff these claims anymore. When next u hear about understanding Islam and tolerance bullshit, just know who is behind it. I though liberalism was dangerous but I would rather have michael moore over for dinner than a muslim fidel. I still maintain it, turn the middleeast into a parking lot and see 2/3 of the worlds problms go away.

Now, Gwaine, Instead of attacking odache, I would expect you to use your learned status to address some of the posers he raised. Please do not go it the biblical way of quoting to me some biblical verses to support your explanations. Explain logically how god would ask god why he has forsaken him. How the devil will tempt god with material possesions, how god will ask god to let the cup pass over him. How he would try to avoid saving the world  inspite of being sent down to save mankind at the last moment. Does that not show his apparent imperfection by trying to run away from his destiny? I will trust that you will be charitable this time, and respond with some civility.

Emmie4J have a field day. I can only pray that your match Ajisafe will somehow come back to this conference. I am however above this name calling exercise.

ajia23,

Are you God or something? How can you sit there and judge every christian in this thread, go and get a life instead of asking questions people have answered 50 times. The sameway u can say bad things about christianity, i can say bad things about islam, but i refuse to stoop to your level GROW UP for goodness sake. 

I thought Pacifism is supposed to mean 'The belief that disputes between nations should and can be settled peacefully'.

So what's wrong if Christianity supports that? Or am I missing something here?

@Goodguy,

You don't get the joke and the joker. He's living his true Muslim faith - no pretences at all, because Islam is violent by design. He's been watching too much wrong TV soaps in Kenya for his good, and he needs to pep up his vocab!

@Oga Gwaine,

I know you're upset with ajia23 - I've had to go back and re-read some of the postings, and indeed found what you're saying is correct: ajia23 didn't sound like he was open to dialogue but had already made up his mind and wanted readers to "confirm" his mindset. All I can say at this time is that they threw stones first and several Christians got offended; but we can teach them we don't take the pleasure to just spin off at tangents by not descending to their level. So, please. . . let's calm down and rather invite them to see that the manner in which they have acted is equally unhealthy - and we can do that by patiently pointing them to the Bible, even if ajia23 does not want us to go the Biblical way of quoting Biblical verses to prove our points.

@ajia23, ajia23, ajia23!!!

How many times I call you so? You've encountered Gwaine a few times on this Forum and know that he usually warns you well enough to calm down and talk to him. You don't seem to be doing that by using unhealthy expressions such as "quintessential christian doctrine of hypocrisy on display" inspite of the several attempts of Christians to explain issues raised from the Bible. Now that you're setting rules for them not to quote the Bible and still keep making recourse to such unhealthy remarks, why do you suddenly start complaining about finding Gwaine's posts offensive? You're not being practical, and perhaps no one may be able to help your case if you keep trumping up such remarks. The Christian doctrine is not hypocritical - and since you delight in using such to denegrate the Christian faith, you're only inviting unfriendly rejoinders to your posts.


between, OlaAjia verily seems to have a knife or something like that sticking out under his folded arms - not important though, but it's there all the same if you look more closely.

LOL!  Don't rustle the bush. . . your "prey" might take off!

The exchange between softee and 4get_me proves one thing to me, when people look at Muslims, they see only the streotypes in their heads. I wish that could change as it may be a starting point for an understanding that could lead to peaceful coexistence in the world.

seun can be anything he wants to be. No one really cares.
The basic point is that he should accord same equality and fairness to christainity as he does Muslims. SIMPLE

@ajia23,


That is because you're being very narrow in your observation. What did you do with the "stereotype" of your twin (OlaAjia) on the very first page on this thread when he stated:
Your reaction was so gleeful that you followed through with:

Where in your reaction did you sound like you were actually fostering a spirit of calmness and dialogue in that kind of attitude? Only when you get put in your place that you come back crawling with snivels and waving a white flag. I've offered you several times to calm down and talk to people - we're grown-ups and mature enough to deal with issues (well, I don't know for the youth OlaAjia); and I also offered that if you'D rather go the way of seething with sly invectives and encouraging Islamic derision on this thread, then I would refuse to iggy your pranks and serve you in just the way you have chosen to understand the inputs that follow your posts.


No matter how many times this issue is explained to you, it's only too obvious that your Islamic mindset will continue to block out your reasoning faculty. Christianity is based on the NT in the Bible and not on the political consensus of any civil government. To mix up both is only too typical of one that is called ajia23. Christians are asked to respect the civil authorities and not take the laws into their hands; but it does not endorse a passive submission to injustice. This has been said several times over, but it will perhaps take omo and bleach to wash away your stereotype so you can see the point.


Oh yes, Sharia is injustice to the poor Muslim men and women who cannot speak for themselves and oppose a barbaric practice - that's why in a secular state like Nigeria, good meaning people should bring that rubbish to an end immediately. If Muslims in Nigeria cannot endure that, they could and should gather themselves and praying mats and move to Afghanistian, Pakistan, or Iran. Nigeria is neither an Islamic or theocratic state, and the Bedouin politicians in the north imposed their jiga over the Federal Law of the land. That is why Nigerian Christians and non-Christians (including well-meaning muslims) should throw out that blight and bane called Sharia as soon as possible, so that development will become a reality in the north.

@ajia23,


For one thing, it does not help to encourage bigotry and prejudices, so your glee at such Muslim exercises were really uncalled for.

On the other hand, I think you're still taking a lopsided view of issues. In just the way African Christians seemingly have been mute about the goings-on in the political events of the West, we observe with rather bemused curiosity the same muteness by African Muslims concerning the terrorist acts perpetrated by fundamentalist Muslims against their own people and non-Muslims. Again, it is obvious that the Muslim world is not doing enough to impress it upon the war-mongering Muslim sect that most of the leaders in the Middle East and their fellow jihadists belong to, that they are errant and have gone against the word of Allah in the qur'an.

What you have to understand is that, when you put all the cards on the table, it is rather characteristic of some Muslims debating publicly-affecting issues to pick and choose a few 'designed' cards while ignoring the rest that call for equal attention.

I'm not at all aware that the charter of the White House is the Bible; so whatever President Bush did in the capacity of a political leader should not necessarily all at once and constantly be translated as the preaching of a Christian Pastor. You should understand that the United States Constitution is a political machinery put in place to serve the democratic interests of a collective people known as Americans; and the United States is a political entity and not a theocratic state. So, seeking to blame the actions of the US President (who is a political leader) on the Bible sounds really out of place. It is not a "war-mongering christian sect" that Bush belongs to, as the Republican Party is not a religious establishment but a political group within the political system of the United States.

This is why most often, the reasoning of most Muslims is beclouded and they perennially interprete the 'West' in terms of religion rather than politics, because that's all they can think of. So, if Bush coughs or sneezes, Muslims are very quickly wont or accustomed to asking, 'where is that in the Bible?', or if he does anything else, they would still very quickly hold his feet over the fire based on their mindset against the Bible.

Indeed, there are many issues that call for the religious concerns of most people in America, such as the on-going battle on same-sex unions/marriages. However, even that is not something that is settled with the Church, but rather fought in civil courts. The recent outcome on the issue in the states of Georgia and New York where same-sex marriages were turned down were not fought in church, but in civil courts - which are clearly political institutions.

I had to take the pains to outline this often-confused and mixed up notion of the Muslim mindset about the West. When you try seeing the difference between politics and religion, then it would be all the more easier to see why it is out of place to interpret the US policies as a "Christian" thing.


It is my persuasion that those who 'submit' willingly to the Sharia do so out of fear because they have no choice and can't protest for fear that they are protesting against "Allah"; or that they submit willingly under oppression. Please don't be upset about this - it's just my conviction or persuasion. The Sharia is used as a political weapon by the high-class to oppress the lower-class, and my persusasion about this is that the Muslim authorities pretend that such laws are not applicable to those in their ranks who commit crimes worthy of the long and strict arms of the Sharia.

Take, for instance, the issue of gay, homsexual and related activities. We understand that in Islamic law these activities are strictly punished, regardless who is affected. However, I observed that so many cases either go unattended to; or those revelaing them are threatened with death because the Muslim political religious leaders would rather conceal members of their ranks or high class. I made reference sometime ago to the child molestations by Muslim clerics in Ismalic schools and how the authorities would rather want to conceal the cases; but when it comes to the poor and lower class the Sharia law is all too gladly carried out.

You might have heard of the case of Crown Prince Tameem Bin Hamad Al-Thani of Qatar in a GAY club in London where he was reported to have been involved in a fracas with 'his partner'. Although some authorities would be glad to apply the Sharia Law to him, others just brush it off - afterall, he is not a commoner but a Crown Prince for goodness sake! (see example: http://www.somalilife.com/ftopic18705.html )

But there again, women come heavily under the discriminate use of Islamic law and could be killed and wasted, as if they too are not human. I can't begin to inundate this page with so many links about the point, but my heart cries out anytime I read through and even watch some of the clips of these indiscriminate executions of women on high-handeness by the 'high-class'.

Some people may feel that the 'judeo-christian' laws are oppressive. It all depends on what you mean by that, and especially if you have any "christian" law that serves as oppressive. The Judaic/Mosaic law was harsh - we don't deny that; but they served only for the theocratic entity known as Israel, not for the people known as Christians. We've often pointed out the difference between the two, and hope that Muslims would not forever keep blinding themselves to that.


Okay, I'll do my best to calm down and talk to you - as long as you help me do that. 

However, I've attempted just above to outlie the relationship between Christianity and secular states. If there's anything missed out, then I'll be glad to take it one step further.

As for the Trinity, I couldn't respond further to that because you wanted my hands tied behind me by stating a rule of non-applicability; meaning, that you didn't want me to quote from the Bible, even though you could tolerate Odeche's quotes from the same Bible. Once you outline the areas you don't get clear, then I'll attempt to clear that up.

Enjoy.